Can An Alien Spicies "Accidentally" Invent Warp Travel, Come Here And Be Hundreds Of Years Behind

The title says it all. With all the talk about infinite dimensions, infinte universes, infinite possibilities, quantum this, and quantum that wouldn't it have to be at least possible that ET still lives in a substantially less evolved existence? They just happened to invent a space travel machine? Also, on a parallel note, we like to assume we are evolving linearly, but what if we are completely out of sync with other civilizations? Were we supposed to tame nuclear energy BEFORE heavier than air flight? Were we meant to have interacted with multi dimensions since the stone age so that none of this would be new or difficult for us today? How many other ways could we have evolved?

So, back to the first question; could we possibly be much more advanced overall than ET? Then what?

Thanks for any input.

Great question!!!

I would guess there are civilisations out there both ahead and behind us technologically.
Travelling here without sophisticated technology? why not, maybe technology will never be able to get humans out of the solar system. We may need to be using mental/psychic abilities.

In an infinite universe anything is possible.

Once again great idea

OR it might be us, in the future, coming back and visiting ourselves ! boo yah


No but I don't think one could , being less advanced than ourselves, accidentally invent this type of travel. That would be like a monkey figuring out how to build a bomb.

reply to post by samstone11


That is very interesting that you say that. If fact it is very possible. However, flying through space requires various different types of technologies to work in sync together to purserve a lifeform during the trip. The most simple is light to see. Then there is protective measures from materials strong enough to be a shield from space debris. Navigation system of some sort... etc.

So even though a race found a way to warp travel, they would still need at least a few other basic forms of technology to survive. This is why i highly doubt we are more advanced. We may have technology they never thought of but not quite better.

I was thinking about making a topic similar to what you are talking about, especially the "aliens may not be more advanced than us."

We as humans should be traveling the stars in 100 years? Wouldn't that mean a possible ET visitor be 100 years more advanced than us? In general discussions about ET's, most people assume they will be millions of years more advanced than us. I don't see why an ET visitors first trip to Earth could be possible UFO sightings we talk about right now, and that sighting would be right when ET invented space travel from star to star.

Because at one point, for humans at least, we will make our first journey to another star, so I would safely assume an ET would have a similar scenario.

Back to the topic of getting warped to Earth, would the ET's just all of sudden be standing in the middle of a desert or something? In just their clothes, and no ship? I'm not sure I'm following you correctly...ET visitors being less advanced than us seems unlikely, but I'd like to point out they could only be 100 years more advanced than us, and not millions of years like most people assume.

reply to post by game over man


I agree. Do you think 100 years would be possible without some more or less "accidental" or out of sync scientific advancement on our part?

reply to post by samstone11

...and why would they have to be the same size as us anyway?

What if aliens were the size of flees?
What if flees are actually aliens?

Maybe that's what flees are...aliens who have invented warp speed...
...and have come here from the 'dog star' galaxy to infest our canines...
...and therefore disclosure has already happened and living on our dogs.

reply to post by troubleshooter


That was mind boggling , thank you.

reply to post by RainboStar


I want to say I do believe you are most likely correct, but you know what they say about putting an infinite number of monkeys in a room with typewriters.

Also, the thought of ourselves coming back to visit has always given me mixed emotions. First, it should mean that we survived long enough to do it. However, from the accounts of what "we" look like in the future, it looks like we may have had a bit of a rough go of it. Can't remember the name of the movie, but there is a movie I think about 20 years old now that revolved around tourists being shuttled back and forth from the future to personally view and experience major events in human history. This theme raises incredibly diverse tangent lines of thought. Are we also visiting ourselve to prevent certain accidents from their "history" (our present) as indicated by reports of UFOs firing on nuclear weapons after launch or closing down nulear facilities? Are we malevolent in out future selves returning? If so, for what exact purpose? Do we return in time to actually cause certain major events, both positive and negative? Could our future selves know how to control the eventual results of historic interference thereby guiding the future to the preferred outcome? Would that mean time travelors sacrificing themselves to stay and direct the necessary events from that point on to get the right endpoint? With future knowledge, they could easily build a great deal of wealth, power, and influence from which to operate. Otherwise, wouldn't we be chancing eliminating our future selves entirely by the interference? Of course if we create that paradox, then we wouldn't exist to come back and change anything that we changed so whatever we did originally will still occur.

Makes my brain hurt.

reply to post by troubleshooter


Gotta admit that something as seemingly mundane as your proposal actully makes a lot of sense. Free as a flea to explore, watch, listen, and learn all about us.

Good point.

If ET's turn up on Earth to say hello one day the only thing we will know is that they have put a lot more time and effort into space travel than us. For all we would know, space travel could have been their religion and the entire focus of their species existence.

Maybe when they got here and saw our different cultures, arts, architecture etc and everything we have done they might be a little jealous and decide they want we we have. At this point, they may might find out how we have really been spending our time while they were building their space ships. They might realise that starting an interstellar war against the humans when your weapon of choice is a potato gun is a bad idea.

Then again, maybe they don't exists or are still nothing more than a microbe with ambition. Who knows.

reply to post by samstone11


Yes, absolutely!

Current Terrestrial technology can allow for low warp velocities (maybe equal to StarTrek's warp 2 or 3). There has been significant advancement in Physcs in the past few decades .. if anyone is interested I can give you some links to some rather heavy phisics papers.

However, the ability to do this has been around for nearly 100 years, think Tesla, and some others.

So, a civilization that had advanced their Physics to what Earth has today, could make it here. Kind of a long flight though, at those speeds Earth's nearest star is weeks away. Other sciences, need not be as advanced. However, with lesser advancement in a number of key sciences and technologies the trip would be far more dangerous. From what I've seen here; that wouldn't be a deterant for Humans.

By the way; the reason Earth took so long in developing any actual hardware is because of two key technologies.

1. Control systems. Not until just recently have terrestrial computers been fast and powerful enough to handle warp travel.

2. Power systems. Again not until the past few decades have you been able to generate enough power in a small size.

I don't think they would be much more than 75 years behind Earth though.

There are also, a few species that have visited Earth that are equal to, or, only slightly more advanced.

As for Earth; I think you will have regular warp flights to many places within your solar system within 50 - 60 years. And a whole new industry will open up. Exciting times ahead!

Great post, I'm glad that I'm not the only one who had thought this.
It has always rankled me that it is always assumed that if non-terrans come here in ships utilizing anti-gravity and unknown physics that then they are somehow "more advanced".
I can't see them as more advanced or evolved than us, merely just different.
For all we know our civilization could be older by magnitude, yet the first set of physics they discovered could be something we've yet to contemplate.
I had more to say but I can't seem focus my thoughts right now.

They would have a hard time not instantly wanting to commit suicide once they come to the realization that they are decades away from having to suffer thru american idol and reality tv

Wow..our spices can't do that...well at least pepper can't..I'm pretty sure of that.

Maybe alien spices can do what ours can't..


OOOps for those of you who did not get it..I was being a jerk about spelling..

Originally posted by AnthraAndromda
reply to post by samstone11
Current Terrestrial technology can allow for low warp velocities (maybe equal to StarTrek's warp 2 or 3). There has been significant advancement in Physcs in the past few decades .. if anyone is interested I can give you some links to some rather heavy phisics papers.

However, the ability to do this has been around for nearly 100 years, think Tesla, and some others.

It has? Really? Then why on earth are we stuck using these idiotic chemical rockets and just now trying to take advantage of such low energy plasma thrusters?

Yeah, I'd love to see your links to any believable information regarding our apparent current ability to travel at Warp 2 to 3 (if you go with ST-TNG conversion that's between 10 and 39 times the speed of light in a vacuum where v=w**(10/3) for w less than 9). But I fear I will be disappointed with what you provide.

reply to post by JustSomeIdiot


Why are you using chemical rockets? You'll have to ask TPTB, I'm afraid I don't have an answer to that.

Try these links, and the links you find there:
en.wikipedia.org...
www.hpcc-space.de...
www.calphysics.org...
www.hpcc-space.de...
en.wikipedia.org...

Originally posted by AnthraAndromda
reply to post by JustSomeIdiot

 

Why are you using chemical rockets? You'll have to ask TPTB, I'm afraid I don't have an answer to that.

Try these links, and the links you find there:
en.wikipedia.org...
www.hpcc-space.de...
www.calphysics.org...
www.hpcc-space.de...
en.wikipedia.org...

Alcubierre Drive physics have been called into question by many physicists, some going so far to state firmly that the concerns raised make it impractical to impossible to achieve FTL travel. (The Wikipedia article you referenced describes a number of these). For example:

According to Pfenning and Allen Everett of Tufts, a warp bubble traveling at 10 times light-speed must have a wall thickness of no more than 10−32 meters. This is only slightly longer than the Planck length, 10−35. A bubble macroscopically large enough to enclose a ship 200 meters across would require a total amount of exotic matter equal to 10 billion times the mass of the observable universe. Of course, straining the exotic matter to an extremely thin band of 10−32 meters is considered impractical.

The Heime-Theory based solutions are also unproven and have their doubters to say the least. Even the paper by Jochem Hauser and Walter Dröscher point out unknowns which make their own scheme and experimental findings uncertain to be usable for propulsion.

There is one caveat, however, when space propulsion is considered. First, the AGF as measured by Tajmar et al. is produced during angular acceleration or deceleration of the ring that is, its angular frequency (rpm) has to change. Second, the AGF produced lies in the plane of the rotating superconducting ring that is, in circumferential direction. These restrictions make it difficult to construct an effective advanced propulsion system, though Tajmar (2005) already presented the physical principle for such a device. There exist theoretical considerations, however, indicating that an experiment generating an AGF along the axis of rotation might also be possible.

There is also a question of the reproducibility of their results (See the Wikipedia article) and several questions about their mathematics (see reference to Gerhard Bruhn also in the Wikipedia article) along with his questions about their ethics here: Gerhard Bruhn on Hauser/Drocher

I cannot say that these methods are unworkable, but they are untested and the subject of significant criticism within the community of knowledgeable physicists and mathematicians. I hardly think these represent PROVEN means by which we could construct FTL craft.

Originally posted by RainboStar
OR it might be us, in the future, coming back and visiting ourselves ! boo yah


No but I don't think one could , being less advanced than ourselves, accidentally invent this type of travel. That would be like a monkey figuring out how to build a bomb.

I'd say it's like a monkey accidentally building a computer.

Originally posted by samstone11
reply to post by troubleshooter

 

Gotta admit that something as seemingly mundane as your proposal actully makes a lot of sense. Free as a flea to explore, watch, listen, and learn all about us.

Good point.

Did you know that house cats were originally bred by aliens to spy on the Egyptian populace.

The aliens were lion-like and they were hybridized with humans...
...so the cats liked to be with humans...
...but they would leave at night and report back to the aliens...
...and cats still behave this way...don't they?