Brain vs. Mind: Are they indeed two separate entities?

Hello all.

So we probably all have heard the debate of brain vs. mind that they are two separate entities. I have done some reading and watching videos on YouTube - I am not convinced yet.

Someone used the example that if you cut my skull open while I am still awake/conscious - I am able to see my own brain from the outside through a video camera recording my brain. So they conclude that I cannot be my brain. But everything we see - aren't they just illusions created by the brain? Even the brain I see - is only an illusion created by my own brain. Why can't the brain see itself? Am I missing something here?

So I'm not sure how the mind/consciousness is not within the brain. I still can see that it is the brain that creates the mind/consciousness.

What do you think? And if you have proofs to show that the mind is indeed separate from the brain - please share them.

Thank you.

reply to post by yic17


You used the word brain so many times that I have to call into question whether you might actually be part zombie.
The thing your missing is a proper explanation. Proponents of the mind being part of your soul rather than a piece of your physical self use the evidence of out of body experiences, and yes there is evidence such as people knowing exact events that have transpired during surgery while being on an operating table even to the point where one man awoke from surgery immediately asking to have the gauze the doctors had forgotten in his chest removed. Low and behold it was right where he said it was and because doctors chat while at work like all coworkers do, even recalled the conversation they had and knew the names of all but one attending nurse. Since you can leave your body and still retain your thought process and thinking abilities it is reasoned that your mind is not attached you in a physical manner. I hope that helps .

reply to post by yic17


it might be better to phrase it differently. the mind exists "physically" in the brain. the brain is a doorway for our mind to enter into the physical reality. it is MY belief (haven't read much along the lines of mind/brain studies) that the brain is a condensed version of our universe. we only perceive the small portions which we have encountered, thus the unfortunate misappropriation of the actual usage of our brains "capacity." the mind, which i will define as anything that fuels our inner monologue, is the portion that sparks thought and is able to learn. the brain is merely there to confirm the minds suspicions or "store" (probably just retrieving information already stored somewhere in the brain already) whenever we "learn" something. this is all just what i think... no proof unfortunately. take it for what it is... just a thought.

I believe the consciousness reside in the brain while we are alive and becomes separate when we die. I don't have any evidence to provide and the only thing closest I can think of are the people who are dead aand brought back to life, although that's not concrete proof.

Take it as you will.

Originally posted by DrunkNinja
reply to post by yic17

 

You used the word brain so many times that I have to call into question whether you might actually be part zombie.
The thing your missing is a proper explanation. Proponents of the mind being part of your soul rather than a piece of your physical self use the evidence of out of body experiences, and yes there is evidence such as people knowing exact events that have transpired during surgery while being on an operating table even to the point where one man awoke from surgery immediately asking to have the gauze the doctors had forgotten in his chest removed. Low and behold it was right where he said it was and because doctors chat while at work like all coworkers do, even recalled the conversation they had and knew the names of all but one attending nurse. Since you can leave your body and still retain your thought process and thinking abilities it is reasoned that your mind is not attached you in a physical manner. I hope that helps .

So .. you're saying that since the brain is unconscious during the surgery, it cannot travel out of its body and see things? So it must be the mind (a separate entity)?

But what if the brain simply uses its subconscious part to create an image of you - send that image out of the body to see everything going on during the surgery? I am assuming that whatever you see is already created by the brain anyway. So even during out of body experience, they are still images created by your brain. And during surgery, while your conscious mind is unconscious - your subconscious mind is still conscious processing your body.

Is that possible? Or am I missing something?

reply to post by yic17


Short answer, yes, they are tow separate things. Think of the human brain as hardware, and the universal mind as software. All are born with a direct connection. some enhance this connection, and even take care to create other connections. some keep their connection as is. And some, sadly let their default connection get so very thin they are hardly alive. That is how I see it, anyway.

reply to post by yic17


If the mind and brain are separate then it would mean that the mind is subservient to the brain. Just look at the case of Phineas Gage. He suffered severe damage to his brain and it caused drastic changes to his personality. To quote one of my professors, "The mind is what the brain does." William James, the greatest psychologist of all-time, suffered from a case of crippling depression because his research showed that the mind (aka soul) is not separate from the brain and he could not rectify this with his faith. All of the arguments I have seen for mind-brain dualism are simply rehashed from Decartes that were disproved years ago.

Originally posted by TraptInTheSystem
I believe the consciousness reside in the brain while we are alive and becomes separate when we die. I don't have any evidence to provide and the only thing closest I can think of are the people who are dead aand brought back to life, although that's not concrete proof.

Hmm .. if there is an actual proof of reincarnation - then I guess it would be proof that there is a soul/mind that is beyond the brain.

reply to post by yic17


I wouldn't say reincarnation, more like someone who's heart stops and is brought back to life and they say they were floating above their body before being brought back to life. Again I know this isn't concrete proof and it's about as close as it will get until science can prove it. Or they could just be telling a lie?

reply to post by yic17


Many people see the brain as the computer upon which the mind (program) runs. So brain = hardware, mind = software.

Although this simple analogy itself is flawed.

When you think about how you think, there is a part of your mind that is an observer (and which you can also observe) that can watch your mind working.

The question that then comes is are you the mind which you are observing or are you the observer, observing the mind, or are you the observer, observing the observer, observing the mind working?

My personal belief is that the brain is not the entirety of the mechanism upon which the mind resides.

Carl Gustav Jung (a psychoanalyst theorist) theorised that there was an overmind, a collective unconcious mind to which we all had some mysterious link. This mind was the reason some symbols have the same interpretation for all observers and also why scientific breakthroughs often appear all over the world, at roughly the same time, even when there is no direct informational link between the discoverers.

I believe that there is a spiritual link, quantum random processing, and simple neural processing occurring in the brain and the sum of these invisible processes is what we would call ourselves.

There does appear to be some form of separation with out of body experiences providing the most solid evidence of this. As for where the divisions are it gets a bit more complex with concepts like the ethereal, astral, soul, chakras, and others getting thrown into the mix. There are indications that there is some science going into this, especially when looking into the alien agenda. I have not fully explored the available scientific literature, but did look into near death experiences a while back. Something is going on.

Originally posted by TraptInTheSystem
reply to post by yic17

 

I wouldn't say reincarnation, more like someone who's heart stops and is brought back to life and they say they were floating above their body before being brought back to life. Again I know this isn't concrete proof and it's about as close as it will get until science can prove it. Or they could just be telling a lie?

Not necessarily a lie. I imagine just because a person's heart stopped - it doesn't mean their brain is dead. Perhaps they came back to life before the brain died out completely.

BUT if someone's brain died and then they came back to life - then yeah, I suppose there is something beyond the brain.

Originally posted by kwakakev
There does appear to be some form of separation with out of body experiences providing the most solid evidence of this. As for where the divisions are it gets a bit more complex with concepts like the ethereal, astral, soul, chakras, and others getting thrown into the mix. There are indications that there is some science going into this, especially when looking into the alien agenda. I have not fully explored the available scientific literature, but did look into near death experiences a while back. Something is going on.

Can you elaborate on what you have learned? About out of body experiences.

Because I imagine they could be the subconscious creating an image to go outside the body (which is actually STILL inside the brain because all images are projections of the brain anyway).

The reason why I posted this question is because someone recommended me a video by Mooji on consciousness in another thread of mine.

Mooji talks about how the consciousness is the one that remains no matter what.

But I am not sure I agree. I think if my brain died right now - my consciousness will leave as well.

Btw, here are the videos on Mooji:

reply to post by thegiftbearer


So the brain is a conduit of experience?

Or the brain is a graphic interfacing device developed by the mind to interface subjectively with itself?

Originally posted by chr0naut
The question that then comes is are you the mind which you are observing or are you the observer, observing the mind, or are you the observer, observing the observer, observing the mind working?

I don't know. That's why I want to find out.

But from my current belief - I am leaning towards the second that the brain is all of it - observer, observing the observer, observing the mind working.

I would like to see proof that there is indeed something else beyond the brain.

Now, you also talked about the subconscious mind. Which I do believe it exists. And if subconscious mind is linked that animals all of a sudden learn one thing at the same time - then it does seem like the subconscious mind is something beyond the brain (outside of the brain). I can also see this collective subconscious mind being God.

reply to post by yic17


The most interesting cases involve the process of remote viewing and astral travel. There are a lot of studies and stories involving both of these with a lot of evidence around to back up the claims. I can not point you to one website specifically, but there is a lot around on these topics if you look around.

There is also a fair amount of OBE's associated with Near Death Experiences as well.

reply to post by yic17


Not only are brain and mind separate entities, but consciounsess is also separate from both brain and mind.

The mind is a vehicle for consciousness to operate in this physical reality via the mechanism of the brain.

reply to post by yic17


Mind refers to all of your subjective awareness, your brain is simply one objective part of this mechanism....

Originally posted by mysticnoon
reply to post by yic17

 

Not only are brain and mind separate entities, but consciounsess is also separate from both brain and mind.

The mind is a vehicle for consciousness to operate in this physical reality via the mechanism of the brain.

So without the brain, will I still have consciousness?

I know there are people pointing me to remote viewing and astral travel.

However, can one remote view or astral travel without the brain?

What if remote viewing and astral travel are also the functions of the brain?