US government wages sock puppet war against its own citizens

reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler


excellent thread. i'm positive that this technology exists and is being used. anything worth having is used and is exploited. so if someone says no, i say the exact opposite.

other than that, short of a legitimate threat that would lead to physical or financial harm, there isn't anything that can be posted on an open forum that cannot be argued against using one's own intellect and skepticism, especially on a conspiracy forum where a person might typically question everything.

if a person is duped by an automation then maybe that person shouldn't even be browsing forums. it isn't that difficult to smell BS, real or otherwise.

and then there are also viruses and spyware and malware.

reply to post by Illusionsaregrander


Since you have been noticing some of the statistical anomolies I have I think it pays to also remember this.

Provided this type of software is being used to star arguments with multiple stars or thumbs, the poster recieving the benefit of that might not actually know they are recieving the benefit of that.

In other words some one sitting back in the shadows not even taking direct part in the discussion might just be throwing thumbs or stars to honest posters who simply share their viewpoint.

That can and does I think at times make what might be a very honest poster look guilty by extension but it probably isn't wise to rush to the assumption or any assumption that they know or are in on it.

They might just think they are overly clever or share what appears to them to be a popular opinion.

Because the person(s) manipulating a discussion board in such a way might not be actively part of the conversation that does make it much harder for Site Owners or Staff to really figure out and prove what's going on if anything and who is behind it.

Some food for thought.

And He said, Ye Behold, the Antichrist is upon US. (See that, nice double entondre )

It shall come to pass that its name be The United States of America, and the sign of this beast shall be

666.........or 999 depending on which way you look at it!!

Beware the ides of March....or Easter April 2011, because....................

What was the question again?

reply to post by anumohi


Sorry but it was the Constitution that gave them the power to do everything that you have been taught the Constitution was created to prevent!

Did I just say that that succinctly?

Sorry yet from time to time I feel it my duty to correct this rather glaring inconsistency.

The CONstitution is not your friend, it is a body of Legalese used to subvert the sovereignty of the free states and the people.

Long live the Anti Federalists!!!
Long live the Articles of Confederation!!!
Long live the Sovereign!!!

As far as the sockpuppetry goes, since 2005 I have sensed "Agents" yet now I will have to fine tune my sensory perception once again yet I will not ignore them as that is the root of ignorance...

Rather watch them carefully, see what the bots are collectively saying, see if there are easy ways to spot them and trip them up etc etc...

Ultimately it would be quite right if Skeptic Overlord and company would find a way to zap the buggers without innocent casualties of course and I do not believe it would be illegal at all, quite the contrary, what they are doing is illegal er uhm UNLAWFUL...

Originally posted by incrediblelousminds
While clearly this thread shows evidence of 'sock-puppetry' being done by government employees, i also am noticing many of these subsequent posts that seem to be implying that any poster who disagrees with them (or, gasp, gets stars from others) are all sock-puppets.

Absolutely not. I dont see anyone making that point. I see YOU making that point in the above quote. Some of us are used to taking controversial stances, and it has nothing to do with other people getting stars and us not. I have never cared at all for the star flag thing. Never ever participated in any of the ATS popularity contests. Dont go out of my way to fluff the staff or owners. Its just not my thing. Im interested in GOOD argument, and facts, and logic, and I am well aware that a lot of people are not. And I dont care.

Nobody cares if people give stars to idiotic posts. It happens all the time. Its just when those stars come down in a highly implausible amount and time frame that I begin to care. And certainly not because the other persons opinion is "more popular." Idiocy is often highly popular. Look at what happened to the housing market when a huge group of idiots made it popular to lend people money they couldnt possibly pay back. Look at "Jersey Shore" or any number of popular reality shows. I care about fraud. And cheating. And manipulation using the star system. Period. Because its bad for ATS for that kind of fraud to occur on a site designed to uncover conspiracies and deny ignorance. I have no other concern with the matter.

I dont care how many stars someone else gets. Ever. As long as they are legit.

The writen language has always been full of deciet..
it comes with the imperfections of using language to communicate and gets worse from there
with intent

there is a whole side to language involving how to use it
to do other then what it says on the face of it.

hell even before language deciet was there...

Lawyers
There is this thing with these evil dooer types
They have this notion that what people think is more important than what the facts is...
like they were in front of a mute jury...
When in reality the consequences are real
not a facsimile...

Ridicule without good links is a dead give away

Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler


Provided this type of software is being used to star arguments with multiple stars or thumbs, the poster recieving the benefit of that might not actually know they are recieving the benefit of that.

No doubt. Im sure that is the case. I have seen it happen to posts by people I am quite sure are members as well as to posts of accounts I suspect of being propagandists. And of course they are just so excited to see the applause it likely would never occur to them to notice that stars dont usually come in instantaneous clumps.

reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler

Great point I touched upon to a limted extent earlier, where as you see it as a sales tool, I see it more as a damage control and political tool in the hands of corporations like BP in the wake of the Gulf Oil Spill or the Banks in the wake of the Bailouts.

As a pump and dump stock market manipultion tool it would also be a real boon to people doing that.

Well, what is damage control, but crafty marketing and sales? Software like this is a Win/Win situation for producers and users, but there are losers down stream...


reply to post by soleprobe

I hope I didn’t shock you.

You didn't... Maybe next time.

reply to post by OverMan


You are correct in that the CONstitution is simply a Latin Word for "Agreement to Pay Back Another's Debt" and that is precisely what the founding fathers did when they agreed to write one for the benefit of King George and Company as agreed upon in the Treaty of Paris ending the Revolutionary War.

The Constitution as it pertains to American citizens though is easily side stepped through the Interstate Commerce clause since everything from human beings themselves to just about everything you do, touch, and think of is part of the Interstate Commerce System.

There is much Americans don't know about their history and the structure of our debt and government, but it sure won't get any easier helping them ever realize it with an Internet dominated by Government bots.

Thanks for posting.

Can anyone tell me why we are in Libya? Are we to arm rebel soldiers who fought for Al-Queda ?
Supply this rabblem POS who danced in the streets on 911? I've lost one very great friend and his brother was in ther first Gulf war. I do not want to witness anymore destruction for no reason.
If anyone thinks killing another person is ok, I will direct yo to my friend.
We have been played by our governent,and they are trying to force another war(illegal),down are throats.

reply to post by arbitrarygeneraiist


I agree with you as far as someone being duped but there is another aspect to it that goes beyond duping and that's targeting posters in opposition to the 'official' story and trying to not just discredit them personally through deliberate and dishonest attempts to defame them, but to try to bait them into responding in a way that might get them banned from a site, in essence silencing their voice.

It's a strategy much like the Las Vegas Casinos use where they are counting on wearing you down over time, throwing you off your game, playing on your emotions and getting you more and more excited in hopes that you will act rashly and impulsively.

It's not just about fooling people with bad information its also very much trying to limit the number of people providing good information.

Some of the sites most brilliant posters and researchers have long since stopped posting because of snide comments made about them and attempts to defame their charachter, often these are in violation of the Terms of Service and the people conducting such attacks know it.

While the Moderators remain present as a threat to such people and tactics, if you are managing a host of fake personas you really don't care if one of them gets banned, or all of them get banned since you can just press a button and come up with a new army and game the system to turn them into members.

The honest poster very much cares though, and many members would like to keep sites like ATS a pleasant posting environment for people to share opinions, research, and ideas.

Thanks.

reply to post by Illusionsaregrander


Wow, guy. Defensive much?

I was just pointing out that ever since the issue surfaced a few months ago, many here on ATS like to bring it up as a way to discredit those they disagree with.

"Oh, you disagree with me? You are obviously a sock-puppet".

Just pointing out the difference between that and the info in the OP.

Originally posted by mugger
Can anyone tell me why we are in Libya? Are we to arm rebel soldiers who fought for Al-Queda ?
Supply this rabblem POS who danced in the streets on 911? I've lost one very great friend and his brother was in ther first Gulf war. I do not want to witness anymore destruction for no reason.
If anyone thinks killing another person is ok, I will direct yo to my friend.
We have been played by our governent,and they are trying to force another war(illegal),down are throats.

Some believe the HB Gary Software is being used to entice Muslims to rebel against their regime by the US Military using it on foreign based discussion boards to create armies of radical posters in opposition to the regime.

Used in tandem with the CIA funding key groups on the ground to organize the recruits gained through the Internet there is strong evidence and reason to believe Internet Manipulation is being used to drive these rebellions and that the US and Israeli Governments are behind that.

Leaders from Egypt to Syria to Libya have charged as much, and Obama has admitted funding CIA Actions through Presidential Findings, which are discretionary initiatives and funds the President is able to utilize unilatterally without consulting Congress or the American people.

I think I can explain it all, but I doubt you will like it!

Thanks for posting.

reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler

i ask my self,what government?,there is no none. all we have there is a bunch of bandits like in the wild west.no laws for them.just for us. and us? the citizens of the world ,i say world cause this is not just a usa problem its the same thing in every country for what i see.we are like that lost driver that just keeps on driving ahead knowing hes going wrong.

reply to post by incrediblelousminds


Feel free to point that out. It is wrong for people to just toss the sock puppet label as a way to discredit those who oppose their own pet opinions.

But it certainly isnt what I actually see being discussed in this thread, at all. I have no animosity towards people simply because they oppose me on a position. Heck, Proto and I dont agree on every topic. I can easily be friends with someone who almost never agrees with me. Because agreement is highly overrated as a gauge for who your friends are.

People who agree with you all the time generally do so for their own reasons, not out of some concern for you. Read "The Prince" someday for elaboration on the topic. I much prefer people who honestly speak their mind, even if I think they are just wrong. Because at least I know about that person that they have integrity.

reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler


It really is up to the poster to act with proper posting etiquette and decorum. The poster needs to act appropriately and follow forum rules. If someone is goaded into acting against forum rules, then that person might need to correct that behavior and will most likely need to learn not to be so hotheaded. Trolls harass people and bait them into acting rash all the time, and trolls are everywhere. So a bit of automation isn't really any different.

For me personally, I guess it comes down to just how the honest poster's reputation is tarnished, and whether or not it has any long term consequences in the real world should it transfer over.

A scientist could come to this forum and post a thread about hisown information under a pseudonym. If anyone speaks out against the information and the person who conceived the information, then those people were going to speak out against the information to begin with. Unless there are some truly devastating consequences, then the honest poster just needs to learn how to brave through the adversity and deception.

Originally posted by bumpufirst
reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler

 

i ask my self,what government?,there is no none. all we have there is a bunch of bandits like in the wild west.no laws for them.just for us. and us? the citizens of the world ,i say world cause this is not just a usa problem its the same thing in every country for what i see.we are like that lost driver that just keeps on driving ahead knowing hes going wrong.

When one looks back to Rome a Republic ours is very much founded off of the same principles of and quite likely might actually be a part of, Government exists as a line between the Patrician Elite and the Mob which are the unwashed and poor masses.

Government is at it's most stable when the Mob believe it serves them and not the Patricians and the Elites.

Society is at it's most stable when the Mob believes the Government serves them and not the Patricians and the Elites.

The Patricians and Elites are the most safe and prosperous when the Mob believes the Government serves the people and not the Patricians and the elite.

Stable does not mean healthy though, as we can see in hospitals where critically injured patients are listed as critical but stable.

So a stable well ordered society does not in fact mean a healthy society, it just means a stable one, and that's what government aims to do is to keep society stable, often by means that make it an unhealthy society.

Because National pride is often evoked people themselves often confuse stable with healthy.

This software and the manipulation of the Internet by the government is aimed at keeping society stable, even a society like ourse which many would argue is in critical condition with 14 trillion dollars in debt and fighting a half a dozen declared and undeclared wars while constantly increasing the taxation and decreasing the liberties of the citizens.

The citizens who finance the government, who then gives most of that money to the Elites and Patricians for goods and services that they obtained through leverage and manipulation of the mob the Government keeps stable.

This is our system, no wonder some prefer our system on drugs!

Without debate we wouldn't be able to explore topics the way we do...
and often to our advantage, as far as what we get out of it

the sock puppets work to prevent that empowerment
they are threatened by empowerment

wait till they see what happens to their pensions...
like noeriega saddam and mubarak and gahdaffi and the sauds...
minions die "soft"...( hehheh no compliment in ignomy)

well software sockpuppets don't have pensions per se

see the movie staring SOCK PUPPET!
and in a supporting role Mr Fist!

better to be a truther me thinks

reply to post by Illusionsaregrander

So can you point to me some evidence of the 'flood' of sock puppets on ATS during the BP disaster?

And, first, can you define how many constitutes a 'flood'?

sorry. browser reloaded. double post.