The Sermon on the Mount

Originally posted by traditionaldrummer

Originally posted by Akragon
Amazing how definitive you are about these passages, but believe what you will... It doesn't matter how i arrived at those conclusions, clearly you've made up your mind. Who am i to try and change your beliefs

You didn't try to change my beliefs, you just claimed I interpreted this passage incorrectly. Then you went on to tell me the passage was about hate and reincarnation, though neither were mentioned or even implied. My curiosity as to how you got there was genuine.

I don't just read the bible... Reincarnation is taught in almost all religious texts and in the bible yet its hard to find.

Read the gnostics, that might help you understand.

Originally posted by traditionaldrummer
Fortunately we have Jesus' stellar advice (Matthew 6:25) to think of nothing, including food and clothes.

Well if we didn't destroy this world by eradicating all the wild growing fruits, nuts, and berries, we would not need to worry about food. We can put things back that way, if we get rid of money. Shoot, I don't worry about clothes. What is there to be ashamed of?

Originally posted by traditionaldrummer
Even metaphorically, plucking out one's eye because it saw evil is absurd, not sage advice. If your problem is lust, do you "pluck" out your genitals? No. Would such advice teach one to get one's lust under control? No. The instruction is simply to remove it (or ignore it) which obviously will not work for everyone.

If the overall message was to quit doing "sinful" things there exists much better advice than this. But the message here is that one had better take extreme measures to quit sinning because you're going to face hell. Negative reinforcement is not what I'd expect from any wise man, let alone one alleged to be the "son of god".

Of course it is absurd to pluck one's eye out or pluck out your genitals. The message isn't quit doing sinful things, the message is stop SEEING things as SINFUL.

Love one another, not judge one another.

We all have the same human desires. What hyprocrites to say you shouldn't lust after a hot woman when they know in their heart they are lusting themselves. If they are not lusting themselves, well then they must be impotent or gay.

Let them who are impotent be impotent and those who are gay be gay, but those who see the beauty of a woman and can, well they are gonna lust and there is no shame in it.

With Love,

Your Brother

Originally posted by Akragon
reply to post by traditionaldrummer

 

Please read the whole quote in that passage...

25Therefore I say unto you, Take no thought for your life, what ye shall eat, or what ye shall drink; nor yet for your body, what ye shall put on. Is not the life more than meat, and the body than raiment?

Right. Then go on to passage 29. Divorce one's self from all responsibilities, live for today and let god take care of everything.

There is nobody who would find this as being good advice.

Originally posted by AdamsMurmur
reply to post by IAMIAM

 

Have you seen the world we live in? I see dead people all around me my friend. They are too afraid to LIVE! They are walking dead worried about their bills, worried about their reputation, worried about this material possession or that possession, worried about getting sick, worried about being injuried, worried about being heart broken, terrified to live and LOVE!

People's vision is blurred and hazy (essentially blind), like in a drunken stupor. I recall this:

28. Jesus said, "I took my stand in the midst of the world, and in flesh I appeared to them. I found them all drunk, and I did not find any of them thirsty. My soul ached for the children of humanity, because they are blind in their hearts and do not see, for they came into the world empty, and they also seek to depart from the world empty. But meanwhile they are drunk. When they shake off their wine, then they will change their ways."

While humans cling to this world's possessions and ways, they drift away from the light and further into the darkness, like it was in the time of their mother's womb, or like it will be when they are six feet under in the womb of the Earth, people seek to return to the darkness they came from. They're attached to this realm and are too "drunk" to see beyond it.

Well said my friend. The hangover is gonna be a bitch for some! LOL

Some are coming to as we speak. I am just providing aspirin and water!



With Love,

Your Brother

Originally posted by Akragon
I don't just read the bible... Reincarnation is taught in almost all religious texts and in the bible yet its hard to find.

It certainly isn't in the sermon on the mount

Read the gnostics, that might help you understand.

Sure. This thread is on the sermon on the mount though. Not reincarnation or the gnostics.

Originally posted by traditionaldrummer

Originally posted by Akragon
reply to post by traditionaldrummer

 

Please read the whole quote in that passage...

25Therefore I say unto you, Take no thought for your life, what ye shall eat, or what ye shall drink; nor yet for your body, what ye shall put on. Is not the life more than meat, and the body than raiment?

Right. Then go on to passage 29. Divorce one's self from all responsibilities, live for today and let god take care of everything.

There is nobody who would find this as being good advice.

Yep, that is what I have done. I am just sharing the joy I have found in doing so.

Have you read the Plan at the bottom of my posts?

With Love,

Your Brother

Originally posted by IAMIAM
the message is stop SEEING things as SINFUL.

I really do not believe that is the message in that passage, else it would have said so as explicitly as you did above.

Let them who are impotent be impotent and those who are gay be gay, but those who see the beauty of a woman and can, well they are gonna lust and there is no shame in it.

Jesus speaks of lust elsewhere in this sermon and he was most certainly NOT saying that it was shameless.

reply to post by traditionaldrummer


26Behold the fowls of the air: for they sow not, neither do they reap, nor gather into barns; yet your heavenly Father feedeth them. Are ye not much better than they?

27Which of you by taking thought can add one cubit unto his stature?

28And why take ye thought for raiment? Consider the lilies of the field, how they grow; they toil not, neither do they spin:

29And yet I say unto you, That even Solomon in all his glory was not arrayed like one of these.

30Wherefore, if God so clothe the grass of the field, which to day is, and to morrow is cast into the oven, shall he not much more clothe you, O ye of little faith?

31Therefore take no thought, saying, What shall we eat? or, What shall we drink? or, Wherewithal shall we be clothed?

32(For after all these things do the Gentiles seek for your heavenly Father knoweth that ye have need of all these things.

33But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you.

34Take therefore no thought for the morrow: for the morrow shall take thought for the things of itself. Sufficient unto the day is the evil thereof.

I don't see anything wrong with this at all actually...

Originally posted by traditionaldrummer

Originally posted by Akragon
I don't just read the bible... Reincarnation is taught in almost all religious texts and in the bible yet its hard to find.

It certainly isn't in the sermon on the mount

Read the gnostics, that might help you understand.

Sure. This thread is on the sermon on the mount though. Not reincarnation or the gnostics.

well if you consider the fact i don't believe in Hell in any sence of the word, this...

29And if thy right eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell.

Would say to me you're comming back to learn more lessons...

But again believe whatever you want

Originally posted by traditionaldrummer

Originally posted by IAMIAM
the message is stop SEEING things as SINFUL.

I really do not believe that is the message in that passage, else it would have said so as explicitly as you did above.

Christ would have been killed before he even got his ministry off the ground my friend. You have to look at his whole ministry and put it all together.

Originally posted by traditionaldrummer
Jesus speaks of lust elsewhere in this sermon and he was most certainly NOT saying that it was shameless.

Read it how you will my friend. You seem to be arguing the fundamentalist Christians perspective so that you can argue against the Sermon. Well I am not a Christian and I view this sermon as one who follows Christ. I keep his commandment to love one another. Thus, when I look at this sermon with the love and understanding that I learned from Christ, this is what I see.

You do not have to accept it, but you cannot change how I see no more than I can change how you see.

With Love,

Your Brother

reply to post by IAMIAM

"4Blessed are they that mourn: for they shall be comforted."


He comforted those who mourned and taught his followers to comfort those who mourn. This is a simple act of love that escapes many today.

If I may offer an additional meaning, "they that mourn" may refer to those disciples who felt the pain of separation from their master, Jesus, or generally, those who feel the loss of one-ness with God.

To my mind, the Sermon is probably the most significant single portion of scripture, if such a thing can be said. It is a supreme masterwork.

It is my firm conviction that contemplation of the Sermon and constant reflection on it as well as constant attempts to live up to its goals in daily life should be the first stop for a prospective Christian. In fact I would hazard to say that one could do worse than make it the first, middle, and last stops. Indeed, if they read or studied and prayed over only that single passage their whole lives, I would guess they would end up far better Christians than 90% or more of all the others.

At the very least, mastery of the principles behind the Sermon (I mean real mastery, not just being able to recite or regurgate chapter or verse...I mean deep reading, contemplation, making it a real part of your daily life) strikes me as an imperative that must be mastered before you can even begin to tacke issues like the question of origins, the relationship of faith and science, political meddling, and so on and so forth.

The passage in 1 Corinthians 13 about the nature and power of Love is a close second to the Sermon, IMHO. A man armed with devotion to these two passages could bring more glory to Christendom than centuries of cruisades and inquisitions put together.

Originally posted by silent thunder
To my mind, the Sermon is probably the most significant single portion of scripture, if such a thing can be said. It is a supreme masterwork.

It is my firm conviction that contemplation of the Sermon and constant reflection on it as well as constant attempts to live up to its goals in daily life should be the first stop for a prospective Christian. In fact I would hazard to say that one could do worse than make it the first, middle, and last stops. Indeed, if they read or studied and prayed over only that single passage their whole lives, I would guess they would end up far better Christians than 90% or more of all the others.

At the very least, mastery of the principles behind the Sermon (I mean real mastery, not just being able to recite or regurgate chapter or verse...I mean deep reading, contemplation, making it a real part of your daily life) strikes me as an imperative that must be mastered before you can even begin to tacke issues like the question of origins, the relationship of faith and science, political meddling, and so on and so forth.

The passage in 1 Corinthians 13 about the nature and power of Love is a close second to the Sermon, IMHO. A man armed with devotion to these two passages could bring more glory to Christendom than centuries of cruisades and inquisitions put together.

edit on 4/22/11 by silent thunder because: (no reason given)

I agree with your assessment my friend. This sermon is undoubtedly my favorite. I am on a project of re-opening Christ's teachings and sharing my interpretation and each time I open his work, I am drawn deeper into his light of love and understanding of all.

He is undoubtedly the truest Master of all the great teachers, more so because he is so easily found within oneself.

Here is my latest look at one of his Sermons. You might enjoy this one as well.

Eating the flesh and blood of the Son of Man.

With Love,

Your Brother