On the "King of all the World (Hiram Abiff);" the Masonic Messiah & other Masonic Conspiracies.

reply to post by illuminazislayer


is there any chance you could tie the YMCA in with masonry? I mean, you seem to think it's all the same, but I have never heard about that. It's the Young Mens Christian Association. The M is not for mason. But I will give you a shot at it.

reply to post by network dude


Since were talking about the YMCA and its potential link to Masonry could you answer me a question???


Were any of these guys masons......


3.bp.blogspot.com...

But just remeber before you answer that question "You can't stop the music"

reply to post by King Seesar


to my knowledge, no, but I can't say for sure. While they have some interesting qualities, they are not quite the "world domination" types. We tend to look more for the Judas Priest type guys. You know, strike fear, softly.
[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/d5bf7833862a.jpg[/atsimg]


who can't be topical.

reply to post by Lucifer777

he is merely suffering from the delusion that "God" is a Capitalist Devil and an anti-Communist; however this is a common delusion shared by many of his generation, and probably by the vast majority of American Christians (who are awaiting the return of Capitalist Jesus) and Freemasons. It is "I" who am guilty of being the Satanist and the evangelical anti-Christian in our family, not my father, and not the Freemasons, since Scottish Freemasonry (I refer to the Freemasons in Scotland) is essentially a sect of Captialist Christianity, though by "Christ" I do not of course refer to the religious schizophrenic, exorcist, fake healer, fake miracle worker, primitivistic Communist and general lunatic who is the "Jesus" described in the Gospels as the Masonic cultists appear to have a mortal living Christ / King / Messiah / cult leader.

As I've said before Lucifer, I enjoy your posts. You seem to have a rational head on your shoulders.

Do you supppose the "real" truth is somewhere in the middle? There is an uncomfortable amount of truth in how you describe the Jesus of the conservative Western world. There are those people that lump religion, capitalism, patriotism, and anti-everything else all together in one bundle. On the other side of the coin, you have those that find flaw with that belief, so they swing all the way to the other side and denounce all of those things.

As for me, and many of the Masons that I know, we tend to be more accepting of both ends of the spectrum. I believe therre are plenty of flaws in the Christian religion, and there are plenty of flaws in those that denounce all religion, or choose to join a fringe religion like Satanism.

Deep down, I think most rational minds can agree that the real truth lies somewhere in the middle. It is up to each individual to take the pieces and parts and good qualities from all things and develop their own paradigm, their own personal religion, their own personal set of morality.

Whether you believe it or not, Masonry is a very, very good venue to make that spiritual leap! Of course, one does not have to be a Mason, anyone can step back, open their mind, take it all in, and make an educated decision on their own morality.

Originally posted by King Seesar

Yea i can see why people would misunderstand the meaning of Hiram Abiff when it comes to masonry and i can see why people would be misinformed thinking he could be the masons replacement for Christ both were in the Bible ect ect...

The legend of Hiram as used in Masonry as an allegory, depicting loyalty, honesty, integrity, and other virtues.

Yea i'v done research into Albert Pike but i thought most Masons held him in higher esteem then you seem too maybe your the minority in that line of thinking i dunno just guessing, like i said his book Morals and Dogma seems to me to be really big in the masonic movement, maybe not here because people are more in the know of certin things, i would assume most masons on here are better educated on world events how there perceived and things of that nature and would draw different conclusions then the status quo....

Most Masons have never read anything by Albert Pike. In fact, most Masons have never even heard of him..

Morals and Dogma is the collection of lectures for the degrees of the Scottish Rite in the Southern Jurisdiction of the United States. It is an excellent book with some excellent writing, and used to be given as a gift to all new members of the Scottish Rite in the Southern Jurisdiction. That practice was ended in the 1960's, and the book is technically out-of-print, although used copies are available for those interested in it.

While it is unfortunate that the book is not quite as readily available as it once was, in my opinion, it was not Pike's best work. Some of his other books I find to be of more interest, at least in that they more directly apply to the degrees of the Scottish Rite than Morals and Dogma.

reply to post by Masonic Light


Huh intresting i'v seen so much on Pike with regards to Masonry i concluded he was a bigger factor in regards to American Masonry, i figured not so much so when it comes to the European and other countries Masonry lodges, but for sure thought he was sort of a iconic figure in regards to American Masonry, i thought most Masons in the U.S read Morals and Dogma as sort of a not required but mostly everyone reads it anyways, that actually takes me by suprise and i'v done a fair share of investigating when it comes to Masonry along with the O.T.O, the Golden Dawn, Adam Weishaupt's Illuminati, Anton Levays Church of Satan but to be honest i'm quite suprised with your answer...wow.

Originally posted by King Seesar

Huh intresting i'v seen so much on Pike with regards to Masonry i concluded he was a bigger factor in regards to American Masonry, i figured not so much so when it comes to the European and other countries Masonry lodges, but for sure thought he was sort of a iconic figure in regards to American Masonry, i thought most Masons in the U.S read Morals and Dogma as sort of a not required but mostly everyone reads it anyways.

It's been said that Morals and Dogma is perhaps the mostly widely diffused book that has been so little read. For 70 years, every Mason who joined the Scottish Rite in the Southern Jurisdiction was given a copy of it as a gift. Out of those, probably less than 5% read it, and probably even less understood it. It's a massive volume of over 800 pages, and isn't exactly light reading. The fact is that very Masons have been interested in it.

As one who actually has read the book, and even studied it, I still recommend it to people, especially Scottish Rite Masons. But like I said, I do not consider it Pike's best book. It is supposed to be the lectures for the degrees, but all too often, the material in the book does not directly correspond with the Scottish Rite degrees it is supposed to explain, which often leaves the reader in confusion.

Initiates in the Southern Jurisdiction are now given Rex Hutchens' book "A Bridge To Light", which accurately corresponds to the degrees, and serves as an excellent introduction to the ideas presented in Morals and Dogma.

I also have an interest in O.T.O. and Golden Dawn, especially Golden Dawn, which I consider has the best material.

reply to post by King Seesar


If you notice on this site alone, the majority of the time, Pike is quoted by mason haters and then explained by masons. We as masons don't usually bring Pike up as a relevant topic in current discussions. Not that he isn't worth discussing, but his work is old and things have changed a bit. I have read some, but not all of M&D and as ML said, it's far from an easy read. Since the usual hate sites have little factual information with which to slander masonry, they tend to use Pike quotes taken out of context or completely made up by Taxil.

And thanks for being open minded. For the record, I follow the same teachings you do and give thanks to the same Creator. I cannot unknowingly worship anyone or anything. My worship is direct and intentional. I think you will find that with most people, masons, or non mason alike.

reply to post by Lucifer777


in the second part of your post, you actually spoke rather than posted drivel and that was refreshing. But knowing that you and your father have a good relationship, how can you respect him in the least bit thinking that he was part of this:



or that when he had a cable tow thrice about his naked body, it was to signify this:



Maybe if you put your allegations into a more personal atmosphere, you will understand the apprehension you are getting from masons on this thread. Unless of course you are doing nothing but trolling and looking for that response. I would like to give you the benefit of the doubt and hope that you are more intelligent than a common troll.

Originally posted by King Seesar

Well and i hate to bring it up because it's been done to death but here it gos, the theory is that there are masons that are of much higher degrees then you are aware of and at the top of the food chain they really worship satan and since you belong to the same organization your essentially guilty by association, now i'm not saying i agree with this hundred percent i'm just telling you what that side thinks....


What i think is that there are a group of Masons (mostly in Europe) that are in bed with TPTB and yes they assign them selfs higher rankings then what is officially considered the highest rank of masonry and while i don't think there legit rankings they assign them selfs this anyways so in a sense it's B.S but it's why people think there's higher degrees then there are, but it's a small portion compared to the vast majority but sure i'd bet there's rouge elements in masonry, people who joined for reasons of power my two cents anyway....

As a Freemason of the Continental Tradition, which is regarded as "irregular" and/or "clandestine" by the Masons of the American and English Tradition, I would like to shed a little Light on this subject because your comment seems to suggest that the European Lodges in amity and solidarity are the culprits of conspiracy. It is true that some of these Lodges do continue to practice the Ancient and Primitive Rite of Memphis and Misraim (4-95), however most are Ancient and Accepted Scottish Rite (4-33). There is no hierarchy of degrees between different degree systems, those who have degrees over 33 in the M & M are not considered "higher" than the 33rds when they travel to other Lodges because the AASR consider the degrees above 33 as superfluous. The progression through the degrees in Scottish Rite in Europe is a slow process in which one must present a "work" or essay on the previous degree before advancing unlike the USA where one can go from 4th through 32 in three days. Holding a higher degree grants no special privilege in a Symbolic Lodge (The first three degrees of Entered Apprentice, Fellow Craft, Master Mason) other than being escorted to the East when visiting another Lodge.

Originally posted by King Seesar
reply to post by Masonic Light

 

Huh intresting i'v seen so much on Pike with regards to Masonry i concluded he was a bigger factor in regards to American Masonry, i figured not so much so when it comes to the European and other countries Masonry lodges, but for sure thought he was sort of a iconic figure in regards to American Masonry, i thought most Masons in the U.S read Morals and Dogma as sort of a not required but mostly everyone reads it anyways, that actually takes me by suprise and i'v done a fair share of investigating when it comes to Masonry along with the O.T.O, the Golden Dawn, Adam Weishaupt's Illuminati, Anton Levays Church of Satan but to be honest i'm quite suprised with your answer...wow.

edit on 27-4-2011 by King Seesar because: (no reason given)

I can count on one hand the Brothers whom I know that has read Morals and Dogma , or anything else from Pike for that matter . I have been a Mason for many years , I am a member of the Scottish Rite and I have only flipped through it . I find it a tedious read and a great sleeping aid if I am having trouble sleeping . Most Masons I know can care less about Pike . I will not go so far as to say I can care less about him , but I can take him or leave him , as he has little importance for me .

Most Antis' have put so much importance on Pike and his writings , some even have went so far as to call M & D our "Bible" , when in truth very few cares about Pike or his writings . As Pike said in the opening of M & D , any Mason is free to accept or reject what he has written , I tend to reject it .

Originally posted by King Seesar
and even tho i'm supposed to dislike all masons i don't

Just curious, but why are you "supposed to dislike all masons"? Who told you that, and why? I'm glad you say that you don't follow that advice, but don't you think that such advice itself is bigoted and prejudicial?

Originally posted by King Seesar
Of course what you say is true but the fact that it uses masonry as its hide out so to speak affects the whole group if they manipulate things the right way, sort of like this scenario, a collage athlete takes money from a agent with out anybody from the school knowing but it ultimately comes out that he took this money...what happens, the school is punished by taking away scholarships from potential recruits and sanctions are levied againts the school...

Not necessarily. If the school is found to have promoted an atmosphere of compliance, to have had no knowledge of the transaction, and to have dealt with the event swiftly and justly, no sanctions occur. I believe this, too, has parallels.

Sorry if I am coming across as just butting in on the thread, but I would like to get an answer from the OP regarding something.

"a lesbian Anarchist Communist (for example)".

Intriguing to say the least...
By no other name - you that is... a dark horse.

Why the suggestion of the above in favour of something else? I am curious to know why.

Originally posted by Masonic Light

Originally posted by King Seesar
and even tho i'm supposed to dislike all masons i don't

Just curious, but why are you "supposed to dislike all masons"? Who told you that, and why? I'm glad you say that you don't follow that advice, but don't you think that such advice itself is bigoted and prejudicial?

The thing is i'm anti secret society and i don't single out just the masons on this i'm anti any kind of secret society, so because that's how i stand there's those in the conspiracy world who probably don't like the fact i consider some masons on here friends to them your supposed to be the mortal enemy, but i don't fall for that diatribe, i look at each person as a individual not a label and if they don't like it sorry but that's how it is...

Originally posted by OnTheLevel213

Originally posted by King Seesar
Of course what you say is true but the fact that it uses masonry as its hide out so to speak affects the whole group if they manipulate things the right way, sort of like this scenario, a collage athlete takes money from a agent with out anybody from the school knowing but it ultimately comes out that he took this money...what happens, the school is punished by taking away scholarships from potential recruits and sanctions are levied againts the school...

Not necessarily. If the school is found to have promoted an atmosphere of compliance, to have had no knowledge of the transaction, and to have dealt with the event swiftly and justly, no sanctions occur. I believe this, too, has parallels.

Yea but the point i was making is in this type of scenario there will be someone innocence getting punished, like for instance maybe one assistent coach knew the collage athlete took the money, if found out innocence people will still feel the punishment even if it was a recruit who wanted to go to the collage real bad and now he can't because of the lack of scholarships from the fall out.

reply to post by King Seesar

The thing is i'm anti secret society and i don't single out just the masons on this i'm anti any kind of secret society,

If that is true, how do you feel about the Vatican? You have implied you are a Catholic, and the inner circles of the Catholic church, from the Cardinals on up, are much more tight-lipped than any Mason I have ever met.

Is the Vatican not a secret society as well?

Originally posted by King Seesar
Yea but the point i was making is in this type of scenario there will be someone innocence getting punished, like for instance maybe one assistent coach knew the collage athlete took the money, if found out innocence people will still feel the punishment