Racism on ATS: an open discussion

Originally posted by SirKnightE

Originally posted by jfj123

Originally posted by SirKnightE
reply to post by LifeIsEnergy

 

I'm not racist, I have white friends.....


Seriously, I totally dig this thread, I would much rather sit next to the Grand Puhbar of the KKK, and smile while he calls me a n-word, than listen to some of these closeted racist hide behind avatars. I am very confrontational. Especially to cowards....

But seriously..... I dont dislike ALL white people, just the ones that seem to hate me because I am first of all Black, and fairly intelligent, I seem to be a threat to some of them. Remembers mans biggest fear?

I have no choice but to love everyone equally the same way our father loves us, he didnt say I have to like you though.

SideNote: I remember about 6 years ago, I stuck my penis in this German chic, 9 months later a half bred little boy pops out.... I love half of him to death, the other half though,.....I guess we're cool, Sometimes he does give me the side eye. Seriously I think he's bi-polar......

Just Kidding, I love my little half German son, but his mother, really gets on my nerves

HUH?
wait huh???
OK so you like and hate white people?
And you partially hate your own child when you're the one who partially made him? Does that mean your a self hating...whatever ethnic background you are?

Clearly you didnt read anything I wrote.... I said I hate no one.... however ther are quite a few white people I highly dislike simply because they hate me... And the spill about about my half white son is obviously sarcasm

The fact that you state "there are quite a few white people I highly dislike" aka HATE, has racist undertones. You only "highly dislike" white people who hate you? No other group? I ask because "whites" seem to be a target of your "dislike", as nobody else was mentioned.

reply to post by AngryOne


All the races should have really listened to Dr. King. Judge not on the color of skins, but by the content of your character. This is for all races, not just for blacks. It doesn't matter to me what color your skin is if yourcharacter is no good, then I don't like you

Guys, I think anyone who denies that racism is still prevalent in today's society is in severe denial about the reality of life in general. In the past two years I have noticed racism dramatically increase in the media, pop culture, and society in general, from all sides. It only makes sense that it would make its way to the internet and thus this board. That is why I felt it was very important, for this boards sake, to open a discussion on such issue in a manner that does not 'tap-dance' around said issue. Unfortunately moderators do not agree with me on this and have chosen to move and keep this thread in the "Off Topic: Rant" forum and censor any opposition to such decision, which really disappoints me. Yet threads that are blatantly created to incite prejudicial and hateful rhetoric towards Israel or Muslims, without any effort to open a civil discussion on said issue, remain on the main ATS board for all to see.

Again I question why I bother with this site at all. When real issues are hidden and censored while nonsense and fantasy remains the most discussed and promoted, I often wonder what ATS's agenda is. Is it to get to the bottom of real life issues that effect us all, and seek solutions to said issue? Or is it merely a playground for immature rhetoric and propaganda?

Deny ignorance? Yea right...

Originally posted by LifeIsEnergy




reply to post by Fitch303

 

In short it's not that I think whites are above everyone else it's that blacks (collectively and culturally) are below everyone else. The facts support my point of view.

Ok, well I can appreciate your honesty but if you are so keen on facts, would you like to share their history of suffering through European colonialism, slavery and other outside economical, societal and physical influence/manipulation/war?

Would anyone else like to address the issues Fitch is having?

Just about every group of people since the beginning of time has gone through what blacks have. The Romans waged war across the continent of Europe and enslaved just about anyone they ran into. These variables are not exclusive to one group or people YET there is one group of people who historically have just about always NOT overcome these challenges. All you have to do is look at the Jews and all the slavery, suffering and death which has been dealt to them yet somehow against all odds they're one of the most successful group of people around. You say blacks have been taken advantage of and held down by colonial powers, which is true but so was this country..... I ask what type of people get taken advantage of the most, is it smart people...strong people.....I doubt it. I want to clarify my previous statement. In my eyes all people regardless of race, religion or sexual preference should have the same rights and opportunities, I just think the black race creates far more problems then they ever solve. I also hate the Klan and consider them an embarrassment the white people.

Originally posted by TedHodgson
reply to post by LifeIsEnergy

 

Ok then ill play, Show us some examples of this "Racist Abuse" on ATS, because Ive seen NONE.

Just because somebody recieves abuse it does not make it Racially Orientated

So yes show me some examples of this abuse youve witnessed here on ATS.......

Just from this thread alone:

Now you see why bussing was a failure. They went to great extremes to "mix" the races in school but once the bussed students got there, they still stayed with their "own"

Of course, it's the "black" kids fault! Who knew that people always pick on the "new" kid at school. You see, it takes two to form a relationship...if a black kid didn't want to hang out with a white kid, it was probably equally the fault of the white kid not wanting to have anything to do with him because he was "different". But hey, let's not try any put ourselves in another persons shoes and imagine what it would be like to be bussed away from your friends/family/neighborhood to a strange new town and school...and by the way, I grew up in a suburb outside of Boston and am very familiar with the busing issue...as I was physically there in the school when this was happening. Ok. Next.

The Blacks never seem to miss a chance to play the race card and hispanics don't respect this country at all.

I don't think there much to say about this one...it's just obvious.

I have argued my points in another Thread for about 28 pages or so about Indians and the fact that they seem to me to want and get way more than your average "white man".

Because why? Because they were conquered and oppressed for centuries, had their culture destroyed, and then dare to stand up for themselves? The fact that this statement is just someone's opinion stated as if it's true should say enough. "the 'fact' that they seem to me. You see how that works? It's a fact!

I think many people here who do have something against a particular culture or race will realise the race or culture falls in to one of the following areas:

1 The culture/race is economically challenged as a whole - you likely feel they leech & steel from society and are rude / dirty and possibly violent.

2 The culture/race is 'invading' - you likely feel they are rude, do not respect your customs, take your jobs and are genrally offensive.

3 The culture/ race is exclusive - you feel like they do not mix in to society, keep their money to themselves and amoungst themselves and do not make enough effort.

Because any race that is not the dominant one (read: white) "you will realize" that they fall into these categories. Again, someone's ignorant opinion given as if it is fact. Lets just take the first example, does the OP have anything to say about the fact (yes it's a fact) that the majority of people collecting welfare are white and from suburban/rural areas? This is just a bunch of BS spun as if it were fact.

I have no respect for people that blame others for their problems. I have no respect for people that take and take and contribute nothing to society except abused and forgotten children. I have no respect for people that get hired just because they are the best of their race. I have no respect for people that blame all their problems on the way their ancestors were treated.

Because that's what all black people/immigrants/hispanics/nonwhite people do, abuse their children and take jobs that they don't deserve because, you know, they are all a bunch of unskilled idiots that if it weren't for the color of their skin they wouldn't have that job all. *eye roll* Do I even need to explain this one?

all I really wish to address is Affirmative Action.
I feel it is becoming a bit overdue to end ethnically based policies in the workplace and schools.

Ahh, the 'ol Affirmative Action bit. Despite that what most people think they know about Affirmative Action is just a bunch of BS pushed by fear-mongers, it's still used as a boogieman word to associate with anyone non-white and male...but that won't stop people from bending the truth..."you know those guys who get jobs just because they are black". myths, and more myths.

And this next one is not racist, it's just a stupid comment, and shows the person has no idea what racism actually is.

Most of the racism that I see is anti-white.

To understand the connection among the oppressions, we must examine their common elements. The first is a defined norm, a standard of rightness and often righteousness wherein all others are judged in relation to it. This norm must be backed up with institutional power, economic power, and both institutional and individual violence. It is the combination of these three elements that makes complete power and control possible. In the United States, that norm is male, white, heterosexual, Christian, temporarily able-bodied, youthful, and has access to wealth and resources. It is important to remember that an established norm does not necessarily represent a majority in terms of numbers; it represents those who have ability to exert power and control over others.

It is also important to remember that this group has to have institutional power. For instance, I often hear people say that they know people of color in this country who are racist. This is confusing racism with bigotry or prejudice or hatred. People of color simply do not have institutional power to back up their hatred or bigotry or prejudice and therefore cannot be deemed racist. In the same way, women do not have the power to institutionalize their prejudices against men, so there is no such thing as “reverse sexism.” How do we know this? We simply have to take a look at the representation of women and people of color in our institutions. Take, for example, the U.S. Congress. What percentage of its members are people of color or women? Or look at the criminal justice system which carries out the laws the white males who predominate in Congress create: how many in that system are people of color? And then when we look at the percentage of each race that is incarcerated, that is affected by these laws, we see that a disproportionate number are people of color. We see the same lack of representation in financial institutions, in the leadership of churches and synagogues, in the military.

In our schools, the primary literature and history taught are about the exploits of white men, shown through the white man’s eyes. Black history, for instance, is still relegated to one month, whereas “American history” is taught all year round. Another major institution, the media, remains controlled and dominated by white men and their images of themselves.

I recommend reading this article.
ericstoller.com...

*Now will patiently await getting flamed*

Here's a interesting documentary on the subject.

Here's a link for the full documentary.

vodpod.com...

With such a volatile subject, I will try and offer something from some middle ground. Discrimination is not just a mental activity, it is part of our biological wiring too, for sustaining our species, specifically those of like origins. However, part of what separates us from the animals and biological constraints is our ability to process and perceive, and ration. When we see someone of a different race, sometimes the first thought that bubbles up to the top of our head is one of discrimination, judgement, or separation and the next step is to recognize that process and then trump it with more humanity by realizing our common traits and struggles with each other.

There is good and bad in all races, and the broad stroke generalizations are really unfair and destructive.
Should we all hold hands and sing Kumbaya? No, that is fairly impractical, but there is room to check our thought processes and not let some our conditioned attitudes get the best of us.

Peace,
spec

Your use of the term 'racist' is a bit ambiguous.
There are people who hate blacks and therefore believe anything Obama does is wrong but hide their racism behind a claim of simply disagreeing with his politics. I agree such people exist
There are also people who are not racist but happen to disagree with Obama only to be told that such disagreement is really 'racist'.
Am I racist? I don't know. If anything other than rubber stamping all Obama's policies because he is black is a form of racism then I guess I am.
Likewise, while some bigots hate Israel because it is a Jewish state and claim once again it is political disagreement, and I concede such individuals exist, there are in turn those who claim that any criticism of Israel is rooted in antisemitism and could not possibly be based on a disagreement of their policies.
Am I anti-semitic? Well, if refusing to claim Israel is incapable of error is racism then I guess I am.
So just curious.
When attempting to decide if I am a racist do you allow for the existence of those people who are not racist or anti-semitic but do not agree with everything Obama or Israel does? Does such a group exist or is this just racist posturing?
Before investigating a subject should one first define and/or agree upon the terms used?

I too sometimes worry about the racism and xenophobia that infects this site, the reliance on hate sites for sources in the blatant cases, and the charges of racism often bandied about when anyone honestly is critical of a politician or nation of a different color or religious persuasion.

Most of it's based on ignorance and fear and those happen to be two of the hardest things to overcome.

I really wish those suffering from ignorance and fear would challenge themselves more to overcome them.

Great thread, star and flag.

reply to post by jfj123


Its only you I highly dislike...Just You... Thats it....

YOU are making it into a racist issue... The only people I have personally experienced that hates me because I am black has been a white person, I live in Texas, so trust me there are quite a few... The day I personally meet a mexican, asian, or polar bear that hates me for being black, I will highly dislike them as well.... Never did I say I hate anyone, I can dislike plenty of people.... Hell, I even love you, even though you probaly could not comprehend literature prepared for a second grader.... The more I love, the angrier people that hate me get... And I dearly love making people angry, they tend to show their true emotions when they are angry... Are you angry yet...???

Anyone who is upset, disturbed, sadden, irritated, defensive, in disagreement, or just has sand in their vag about this thread is probaly a Racist......

Whether subliminal or not.....

I just really wish some of you would MAN up and just be open with it, I would much rather sit back and have a beer with David Duke than to listen to some you cowards hide behind computer screens.

reply to post by SirKnightE


You are so full of it. Lol. I could tell even in another thread you had some issues with other ethnicities, and while you did not say so, I assumed it was Europeans. You are racist even though you have white friends, and your dislike of whites comes out loud and clear even though you claim and may actually think you are loving them as Jesus instructed.

Im sorry someone hated you because you were black. But it doesnt justify becoming a racist yourself. And you are actually wrong. There ARE a lot of racist people in the world, but there really are a lot of people who are not, too. Texas is not the world, you know, and people in other states are often quite different. I just moved to Tennessee about a year ago and here, there is racism. But it wasnt an issue in New Mexico where I lived for 15 years prior to this. Some illegal immigrant bashing, but most of that I heard was from New Mexican Hispanics, some of whom take a very superior attitude towards Mexicans.

But where you live can really skew your view of people, if you live in a town where you have to put up with a lot of crap, maybe you should consider moving to somewhere people were a little less ignorant.

Originally posted by Illusionsaregrander
reply to post by SirKnightE

 

You are so full of it. Lol. I could tell even in another thread you had some issues with other ethnicities, and while you did not say so, I assumed it was Europeans. You are racist even though you have white friends, and your dislike of whites comes out loud and clear even though you claim and may actually think you are loving them as Jesus instructed.

Im sorry someone hated you because you were black. But it doesnt justify becoming a racist yourself. And you are actually wrong. There ARE a lot of racist people in the world, but there really are a lot of people who are not, too. Texas is not the world, you know, and people in other states are often quite different. I just moved to Tennessee about a year ago and here, there is racism. But it wasnt an issue in New Mexico where I lived for 15 years prior to this. Some illegal immigrant bashing, but most of that I heard was from New Mexican Hispanics, some of whom take a very superior attitude towards Mexicans.

But where you live can really skew your view of people, if you live in a town where you have to put up with a lot of crap, maybe you should consider moving to somewhere people were a little less ignorant.

edit on 16-4-2011 by Illusionsaregrander because: (no reason given)

Really its folk like you that are full of it, You would love it if I were racist, It would justify your hidden racist issues. I readily admit there are plenty of you I do not like, hell there are even more blacks I seriously do not like, mostly because i know them personally. You can take everything i say and assume I'm rascist probaly because of your true feelings.
I dont like flamboyant homosexual men that act like women, but I dont hate them. They b!tch more than real women. At the same rate, I have no problem at all with homosexual men, that actually still act like men... They usually have the best looking female freinds....I love lesbians however...
So if disliking certain white people, or whoever, makes me racist then it is true, we all are racist. I'll be sure to tell my half white son, and his white(German(European)) mother i'm a black supremecist. If thats the case she is the biggest racisit I know, because she really doesnt like black women, but she she loves my mother...How ironic
So we can agree that the tag "racist" means I can like this guy, dilike this other guy. If I dont like everyone equally, then i'm a racist.... That makes a lot of sense doesnt it.

Problem Solved, Do you feel better about yourself now...?

reply to post by Rotorman


Hey Roto

Nah dude, (ya dig dude?) not 100 just mid sixties. I only got ten to twenty years left if the SHTF doesn't come along first. Interesting knowing the end for me is coming sooner instead of later. Enjoy your youngness Roto.

Originally posted by 1truthseeker50
reply to post by AngryOne

 

All the races should have really listened to Dr. King. Judge not on the color of skins, but by the content of your character. This is for all races, not just for blacks. It doesn't matter to me what color your skin is if yourcharacter is no good, then I don't like you

Right, right. But while people certainly do have individual traits, they also have collective traits as well, and I just think it's a terrible idea to disregard that (or of course, deny it altogether). Rules and exceptions are two distinct, equally relevant things.

Originally posted by SirKnightE


Really its folk like you that are full of it, You would love it if I were racist, It would justify your hidden racist issues.

You are projecting. Lol.

Originally posted by SirKnightE
You can take everything i say and assume I'm rascist probaly because of your true feelings.

You know why I think you are racist? Because your anger is palpable. And my true feelings? I feel bad for you. You didnt deserve what happened to you. No one deserves to be treated badly because of things about themselves they have no control over. I have had people hate me for things I have no control over too. Including my skin color. And it sucks. But it sucks worse if you let someone else make you live your life angry and resentful. Hate is the person being racists baggage. Dont agree to pick it up and carry it for them.

Originally posted by SirKnightE
So if disliking certain white people, or whoever, makes me racist then it is true, we all are racist. I'll be sure to tell my half white son, and his white(German(European)) mother i'm a black supremecist.

No, disliking certain white people does NOT make you a racist. But some of the comments you make betray a more broad negative sentiment that does. And just because you marry someone white doesnt mean you arent racist. Lots of racist white guys marry Asian women. There are some interesting psychological reasons people might do that.

Originally posted by SirKnightE
So we can agree that the tag "racist" means I can like this guy, dilike this other guy. If I dont like everyone equally, then i'm a racist.... That makes a lot of sense doesnt it.

I never said that. Nor would I. Its kind of a waste of time to really hate anyone, even if they have been a jerk to you. Its like trying to kill someone else by drinking the poison yourself. Its counter productive to a happy life. But its not racist to hate people for their own choices, words, actions, etc. Just foolish.

I personally dont have the energy to carry a grudge that long. Not saying I never get angry. I do. And I have been in some pretty serious fights over racist crap and other bullying nasty behavior. I for sure am no saint nor someone who believes you should not be willing to mix it up with a bully. But after the fight is over, within a day or two after all the adrenaline is out of my system, I dont carry them with me. Thats making someone who doesnt deserve my energy too important in my life. I move past them, and if I see them again, and it starts up again, I will deal with that then. But Im not going to replay the crap they said in my head over and over and do their job for them.

Originally posted by Puck 22
Your use of the term 'racist' is a bit ambiguous.
There are people who hate blacks and therefore believe anything Obama does is wrong but hide their racism behind a claim of simply disagreeing with his politics. I agree such people exist
There are also people who are not racist but happen to disagree with Obama only to be told that such disagreement is really 'racist'.
Am I racist? I don't know. If anything other than rubber stamping all Obama's policies because he is black is a form of racism then I guess I am.
Likewise, while some bigots hate Israel because it is a Jewish state and claim once again it is political disagreement, and I concede such individuals exist, there are in turn those who claim that any criticism of Israel is rooted in antisemitism and could not possibly be based on a disagreement of their policies.
Am I anti-semitic? Well, if refusing to claim Israel is incapable of error is racism then I guess I am.
So just curious.
When attempting to decide if I am a racist do you allow for the existence of those people who are not racist or anti-semitic but do not agree with everything Obama or Israel does? Does such a group exist or is this just racist posturing?

If you hate a group of people soley based on the way they look/their ethnic background, you are a racist.
If you hate a particular person because they've mugged you and that person happened to be a different ethnic background; their ethnic background is irrelevant as you hate them for mugging you.

Racism is actually pretty clear when exposed.
Hope this helps.
Before investigating a subject should one first define and/or agree upon the terms used?

Originally posted by SirKnightE
reply to post by jfj123

 

Its only you I highly dislike...Just You... Thats it....

YOU are making it into a racist issue... The only people I have personally experienced that hates me because I am black has been a white person, I live in Texas, so trust me there are quite a few...

Wow so what you're suggesting is that ONLY white people hate you for being black? I find that hard to believe. Now lets take that a step further. What ethnic background of white people hate you? Please be specific. Surely you aren't suggesting that every white ethnic group hates you?
As exmaple, are they polish? czech? french? english? Finnish? Welsh? Irish? Scottish? Hungarian? etc..
Or don't you know?

Never did I say I hate anyone, I can dislike plenty of people.... Hell, I even love you, even though you probaly could not comprehend literature prepared for a second grader....

What a hateful comment. Actually I have 3 degrees and own my own business

The more I love, the angrier people that hate me get... And I dearly love making people angry, they tend to show their true emotions when they are angry... Are you angry yet...???

Actually I'm not angry at all. I feel bad for people such as yourself who are so caught up in dividing people instead of trying to bring people together.

reply to post by jfj123


reply to post by Illusionsaregrander


I seriously feel you two have the largest issues with race on this thread..... Did a big black kid beat you up in school?
How can both you supposedly intelligent people take fractions of a sentence and come up with your own assumption.... You know what they say when you ASSuMe sh!t right.
3 degrees and own business......? right
You can't even read, how do you expect anyone to believe you own anything of value.
You both took absolutely everything I said and twisted to prove that I am a racist.
If thats what you want then cool.... I hate white people with the screen names illusionsaregrander and jfj123. Do you feel better now. You two are worse than fox news, take small sound bites and distort the hell out of them.
Glenn beck is right....All black people especially me and Obama is racist against whites
Instead of trying to prove how racist others are, admit it with in yourself.... That was the point of this thread... To give people like you the chance to come clean...
I came clean.... Its people like you two I seriously do not like...... I guess i'm racist, because I truly can not tolerate people that lie to themselves... That means that lying to me would be the easiest thing to do.
Now we all can go back to out Tea Party

I'm not racist but...

Whenever this kind of thing comes up invariably there are the people who say "well I'm not racist I just hate people who (do this/wear that/act like/etc.)

Of course if you could hook your monitor up to that person's head you would see that they associate (doing this/wearing that/acting like/etc.) with a particular ethnicity.

Racism these days has less to do with being uneducated and more to do with guilt. The middle class is comfortable but with the knowledge that their comfort is propped up by the lower classes. The only way to stop feeling guilty is to deny that your comfort is at the expense of others. However it is constantly visible so the hatred which should be directed inward is directed outward.