Focardi & Rossi E-Cat: First Cold Fusion Power Plant to be built in Greece. Next one in USA!

reply to post by boncho


It's not a sham and Rossi has never been accused of being a con artist. His claim is that the manufacturing process of his last artifact caused problems. If you did more than google you would understand how complicated invention copy rights are. Scientists are very often poor bussinessmen. Many many inventors have been screwed big time. Your assumptions are all just that. You pick websites that agree with your point of view but have no more credibility than any of the ones supporting Rossi's claims.

In fact if you could go on a university data base, and read journals you would find a lot of scientists talking about the e-cat. But since you most likely sit in your room on your computers using google to support what you believe you have no idea. It is not my job to go scan documents from science journals and conferences for you but do it yourself. To your local university and ask physics profs what they think. See if you can use databases other than google to do research.

The Internet is great but most journals do not publish all articles online. If you were part of the research community you would know this. But alas you are an armchair expert.

I think you will be looking foolish in the next few years when the cold fusion devises hit the market. There many folks of the real science community interested in Rossi not just ATS experts.

reply to post by Movescamp

It's not a sham and Rossi has never been accused of being a con artist. His claim is that the manufacturing process of his last artifact caused problems.

He was charged and prosecuted in other incidents for being a con artist. Where do I say conclusively, it is 100% a sham? If you notice the post you replied to it says "if" it is a sham...

Just exactly what leads you to be so confident to say "It's not a sham".? Critical thought?

If you did more than google you would understand how complicated invention copy rights are. Scientists are very often poor bussinessmen.

Rossi, isn't a scientist. He is an engineer with a fake degree from Kensington U, a diploma mill. That is from his words and the court documents that say that university were a fraud.

Your assumptions are all just that. You pick websites that agree with your point of view but have no more credibility than any of the ones supporting Rossi's claims.

I sift through the marketing and post backstory that will help give some context to what is going on.

In fact if you could go on a university data base, and read journals you would find a lot of scientists talking about the e-cat.

I have open access to a well respected University. One that has a great science department. Name a paper with Rossi and I'll go search for it.

To your local university and ask physics profs what they think.

The physics profs did independent reviews of Rossi's e-cat? Not at my University... Can you pass on the paper where yours did....

The Internet is great but most journals do not publish all articles online. If you were part of the research community you would know this.

Rossi's work was rejected. Hence why he set up his own "journal" that is really a blog. If you had something concrete you would post it. I suppose you are trying to make it look like I am stupid with these ramblings. You prolong the argument with absolutely no facts, no nothing (because there is nothing to support your belief). Instead of saying how useless I am... Be useful and produce something to confirm Rossi's work.

You can't, because he won't let anyone reproduce it...Not even look inside...

I think you will be looking foolish in the next few years when the cold fusion devises hit the market.

How would I be foolish by questioning poor scientific method? You have made yourself foolish by your statement.

It is a win win for me. I am giving background to Rossi and scrutinizing his methods. It works or doesn't work I am just pointing things out.

On the other hand people are choosing to believe everything that comes out of press releases as truth. A very blind dogma actually.

reply to post by boncho


Spoken like a true sociopath.

You do the research you are making the claims.

Pretty sure his partner is a prof at bologna.

Pretty sure you can find info of conferences he has been too attended by other professors

Pretty sure you can find quotes from respected scientists you can't even refute.

Why would he let anyone look inside?

So they can copy it?

He said it's simple right?

reply to post by Movescamp

Because you choose not to address my points I will address yours.

1. Calling me a sociopath does not strengthen anything you are saying.
2. Not sure what you mean by this.
3. His partner is also not privy to information apparently.
4. Will get back to you on this one, I have some great stuff in a bookmark list somewhere on this point.
5. If you are sure, than post them instead of mud slinging.
6. NDA's protect proprietary information and they remove all doubt. It is a great benefit, especially with a history of criminal behavior.
7. See: NDA
8. Is it...

reply to post by dereks

Funny how exactly the same applies to Focardi and Rossi's claims! There is zero proof, no evidence, just claims on a website. We have heard so many similiar stories before, all turned out to be fake

Are you mentally challenged??? Several prominent scientist have observed, run tests, ruled out hidden power supplies, confirmed 10 times the output as input, ruled out chemical reaction, and confirmed nuclear reaction, and PUT OUT PAPERS ON IT. Read the several threads on ATS with links... THAT'S CALLED EVIDENCE Sigh! Another armchair naysayer spouts off and inserts foot into mouth...

reply to post by hawkiye

Another armchair naysayer spouts off and inserts foot into mouth...

Forget the "armchair" let's take the words of Rossi's supporters, researchers in the same field....
Jed Rothwell
Rothwell's book on Cold Fusion from "lenr-canr"
Cold Fusion experiment breakdown by Rothwell. US Navy Exp...

He would gain much more credibility if
he would only allow the NRL to test his machine, but I doubt that will
happen. I do not understand why, but he does not want more independent tests
of his machine. It sure makes him look bad, doesn't it?

I cannot persuade him to do anything. Neither I nor anyone else seems to
have any influence over him. He politely refuses to consider any
suggestions.

Okay, I admit that I have groused about the plan. I would prefer to see Rossi deliver 3 or 4 units to National Labs for testing under non-disclosure agreements. I told Rossi that. He politely said he doesn't want to do that.

Rossi says many things which seem strange or baseless; i.e. without a reason. Many people have concluded that he does not really mean what he says; he is playing some sort of mind game; or a deception similar to what Ching-Wu Chu was accused of doing when he told people his formula had Yb (ytterbium) instead of Y (yttrium). I recommend you reserve judgement and not try to read his mind. I do not know why he says these things, and more to the point, I do not know whether these things are true or false. Nobody knows. It is likely they are mixture of true and false.

His views on Arata:

Arata is a certified genius but I think he is also a faker, by the way. He claims that he discovered cold fusion in the 1940s, which I doubt. He claims that Fleischmann, Pons, McKubre and all other researchers are making elementary errors, and he alone has discovered "real" cold fusion. If he believes that he is unbalanced, and if he does not believe it, he is lying. I cannot tell what he thinks.

Now, here is the best one where Rothwell mentions an ATS thread:

www.abovetopsecret.com...
I wish cold fusion was not associated with conspiracy theory sites such as this . . .

The author, CoolHandDan supplies a variety of answers but I think he is wrong. The answers are prosaic. There is no mainstream media coverage because:

1. The mainstream media and mainstream scientists don't believe a word of it.

2. Although I thought the demo and the follow-up experiment were pretty good, when you look at Rossi's website and other original sources, it did look amateur. It was unconvincing. I can understand why mainstream scientists would dismiss it.

3. I expect some mainstream reporters and scientists did not think much of the reports by Levi et al. because they were poorly written. Even some of the people here did felt the English was a problem.

For the record: Rothwell seems to think the possibility of fakes have been eliminated. He is a staunch supporter of Rossi and believes he has it. But some of his comments on Rossi I am posting, is just to show you that "armchair"s are not the only people that question Rossi's methods.

Oh and let's not forget the "prominent" scientist.

Hanno Essen

Hello
I remember clearly that there was no adjusting of the pump during the
experiment. There was a tank of distilled water on the floor below the
pump. Unfortunately its refilling and weight etc were not checked.
These things will be better checked in a follow up experiment next week.

Best regards
Hanno Essén

So, as I mentioned earlier in this thread, something to do with flow rates... Something that Essen addressed himself.

reply to post by boncho




Gee I'm Boncho lets go find negative out of context quotes that only agree with my negative bias that I have repeated a million times already and say they are from supporters and ignore all the hard evidence and make false unsubstantiated claims etc etc. blah blah BS... Sigh!

Same ole same ole you have no credibility and posting the same BS over and over ad nausea will not get you any. In fact it is pretty clear your only purpose here is to muck up this thread since you respond to almost every single post and repeat your same BS again and again...

reply to post by hawkiye


You probably missed this quote:

For the record: Rothwell seems to think the possibility of fakes have been eliminated. He is a staunch supporter of Rossi and believes he has it. But some of his comments on Rossi I am posting, is just to show you that "armchair"s are not the only people that question Rossi's methods.

I was taking him out of context, and I said so as I did it.

As you see, in my earlier posts, I am questioning the method of Rossi. That leaves a lot of possibilities open for debate, but no one wants to address any of the inconsistencies in regards to the guy.

reply to post by boncho


You probably missed these Boncho/Gheddafi

nextbigfuture.com...

Patent filing WO/2009/125444 - Method and Apparatus for carrying out nickel and hydrogen exothermal reactions.
newenergytimes.com...

The Department of Defense and Dr. Andrea Rossi
webcache.googleusercontent.com...:aXtJ7qjancgJ:dodfuelcell.cecer.army.mil/library_items/Thermo

reply to post by Arken


The DOD and Andrea Rossi

LTI was incorporated as a response to the thermoelectric power generation research by Dr. Andre Rossi. Dr. Rossi indicated that his devices would produce 20 percent efficiencies, a vast increase from the current science of 4 percent conversion of waste heat to electrical power. Dr. Rossi believed that he could increase the physical size of the TE Devices and maintain superior power generation.

The TE Device produced approximately 100 volts and 1 ampere of current, providing 100 watts of power. After this initial 6 ERDC/CERL TR-04-20
success, and a fire that destroyed his Manchester, NH location, Dr. Rossi returned to Italy to continue the manufacture of the TE Devices. In Italy, Dr. Rossi believed that LTI could manufacture more cost-effective TE generating devices with lower labor and assembly costs. Accordingly, Dr. Rossi engaged a subcontractor to fulfill the requirements of manufacturing and assembly.

Unfortunately, the Italian subcontractor was unable to provide secondgeneration TE Devices with satisfactory power generation. Nineteen of 27 TE Devices shipped to CTC, Johnstown, PA, were incapable of generating electricity for a variety of reasons, from mechanical failure to poor workmanship. The remaining eight produced less than 1 watt of power each, significantly less than the expected 800–1000 watts each.

1
I've already talked about these points.

reply to post by Arken
As for him signing a contract in the US. No one knows anything again, because it is just Rossi's word. He says he can't talk about the people yet, but will release more information in a few months. He can't prove it... Why bother mentioning it?

Dear Mr Bruce Fast:
Wrong: yesterday we signed a very important contract in the USA .
Warm Regards,
A.R.

Dear Craig:
The Customer of us is a kind of Customer you need to have a written authorization of to talk about him. In due time we will make a joint communication. We will manufacture together a network of plants to sell the energy. I am very happy for this, because I am extremely indebted with the USA, where I got my rebirth, and we will make here new jobs and a useful work, so I will give back part of the help I got, as it is my duty. I always give back what I get, turned into energy. It’s my job.
Warm Regards,
A.R.

reply to post by boncho


You have no points. You offer info from non credible sites. You also fail to print the whole story.

His test machine was fully confirmed. If you are truly doing the research you know this.
The manufactured product was a failure for unknown reasons.

There are three sides to the story. Yours mine and the truth.

I say like a sociopath because you have absolutely no regard to other peoples fealings. You trample over philosophies of other people with no remorse to prove your point. Which is truly just a philosophy. There is no proof of what you say. There is only reports from the people who got "screwed" by a previous business deal. He has never Been convicted as a fraud.

His partner is an esteemed quantum economist. Seems he learned from his past mistakes.

reply to post by Movescamp

You offer info from non credible sites.

Instead of repeating yourself, point out what sites and what info I am using that is bad. I have quoted Rossi a number of times, are you saying his info is bad too? Is the Amry Corps of Engineers bad as well?

He has never Been convicted as a fraud.

Rossi had five convictions that he lists on his site...where I quoted him earlier. I cannot find out conclusively what the convictions were for, if you know than post them.

There is no proof of what you say.

To the best of my ability I have backed everything I say. And you don't address key points, you simply say I am wrong in general...

I say like a sociopath because you have absolutely no regard to other peoples fealings. You trample over philosophies of other people with no remorse to prove your point.

reply to post by boncho


What points have you offered? Show who printed them give a link to the history. Etc. Offer both sides of the story if you believe yourself to be noble. Let people decide for themselves if you are such an instigator.

What you do is offer slanderous biased crap. You offer nor give credit to the other side which in the case there is actual credibility.

I do have to say you have valid points. Rossi is a Terrible bussiness man as many visionary people are. He hasn't hooked up with the right partner until possibly now. We will see.

Your link from the army core? Nice try.

Look I have a job and a life. I don't have time to link and google you all day long. Remember I am not the one making outlandish claims. I am the one defending just basic curtesy and rational.

You have points but they are not truths. You have no way of substantiating any of these claims just like the people making them here.

There is proof through other scientists that he is being taking seriously. Unfortunately these things take time. Development peer reviews, tests..etc. Over the last year he has had pretty notable scientists look at his work even skeptics.

Hasn't been called a fraud by any which is much more than garage magnetic motor or tesla coil guys can say.

If you don't understand my explanation or the definition of a sociopath it's simple. Its a person with no regard for others with a lack of conscious. Who cares if someone misspeaks. You take this discussion forum to far by thinking it's a science review. You also don't have the credentials. Or you would have taken me up on that Database search at your local university. You said they are prestigious.

I would rather you find it for your self. It will have more impact that way. If I write it tour first response will be to counter. It's there. Believe it or not the science community is watching Rossi and they may not be fully on board but you will find a lot of quotes saying "it's very promising".

reply to post by Movescamp
We're here to get the whole picture are we not? I can post what is out there. I never said I was going to do a science review for the guys.

The point is, is the whole thing is a mess. Which I have no problem saying. Neither do others, even Rossi's supporters. I am just trying to put the whole thing into context.

But others believe everything in the media releases are facts, and I am just slandering I guess, posting things that happened.

TextAs you see, in my earlier posts, I am questioning the method of Rossi. That leaves a lot of possibilities open for debate, but no one wants to address any of the inconsistencies in regards to the guy.

reply to post by boncho



??? Like what he won't show a money making machine to people until he has patent? He won't explain exactly how he does it?

You are fishing pretty hard and are either not in any way tied to the business world or r&d

So if Sony says we have a new game console do they show ninetendo how they did it before getting a patent?

If they give demos and let some people play the new games does that mean they are fishy for not giving out the code? Come on dude be realistic.

His convictions are over contracts that got screwed up. He wasn't able to pay workers, manufactures, and meet his contractural obligations. The machine worked. Something happened in manufacturing to shipping. He took money and did t give product. Found it on a university database.

There is no telling what happened. It's not clear. Bit it's not uncommon at all with new inventions or Startups who don't have the right partner combinations.

For instance facebook, apple, Dell, etc you may know the owners names but it was the group that they started with that led to the success.

reply to post by boncho

You have points but they are not truths. You have no way of substantiating any of these claims just like the people making them here.

Since you give me blanket responses, which claims mine are outrageous.... Did you miss that I have quoted Rossi himself, his partners, his website, etc.

Somehow when they say something fits in with your belief it is proof, but for me it is an outlandish claim.




You may have missed it, but the only claims I have made regarding Rossi are based on reality. And as far as this new project he is working on, it is a mess. There is nothing there for anyone to say it is 100%...

As an investor, I would not drop a penny into the company. That actually says a lot.....

reply to post by Movescamp

??? Like what he won't show a money making machine to people until he has patent? He won't explain exactly how he does it?

I have covered this in so many posts. If you want to ignore me and post rhetorical questions, knock yourself out.

Three letters: NDA.

Don't forget, he ran a reactor for two years supposedly. The amount of data that could have been collected off that would be plenty.

So if Sony says we have a new game console do they show ninetendo how they did it before getting a patent?

Apples and Oranges. Rossi is a start up. Sony has been around for awhile. And we talking about something that he could sell for millions and millions right now, or something that could grab instant funding if real.

Instead, he has a company with a website set up a couple months ago, with three contacts using gmail addresses. That doesn't seem odd to you? A company raising 200 m in capital that doesn't even have business email accounts....

He took money and did t give product.

Damn, what's the name of that again....when you take money and don't deliver...

reply to post by boncho

TextAs an investor, I would not drop a penny into the company. That actually says a lot.....

Really why? He has investors. Ones with more than monopoly money.

What have you posted that is a fact?

Blanket statements? Damn right. I never made any claims.

Never used anything but your own words in this debate. I dont know Rossi's E-cat works but you don't know it doesn't. Now you are softening your tone as you are being called out on what you say.

All I know is there is a buzz in the nuclear physics world over the e-cat. Not media stuff but scientist and phd's looking closer at it. They don't do that for magnet motors in peoples basements. That's enough to discuss what it could mean for the world or in your case "let's hope he doesn't screw it up before it starts".

My problem with your argument is you fail to give any credit to people who are substantiating his claims. Not the media but the other scientists. It's one thing to say well let's be weary he has a past and another to say this is fluff which is a direct quote I believe.

reply to post by Movescamp

It's one thing to say well let's be weary he has a past and another to say this is fluff which is a direct quote I believe.

Yes, direct quote in reply to a radio interview. Also known as marketing.