Consciousness is a Quantum Entity

reply to post by Matrix Rising


So in other words, you lack any scientific backing or sources that prove your assumptions.

Always so much fun talking with ya!

reply to post by jsettica

Yes

By all means, please cite those sources then.

Does exists.

How you just need to have a N.D.E to under stand that all of the scientific proof your looking for is just bunk.
With out that experience it just makes it harder to understand what is real in this world and what's not.
Sorry it's called insider knowledge one of the only true ways to get perspective of our reality with out the human filters that are always in place. Nothing exists all things are light and information.

Ah.. The famous NDE/personal experience argument. You should read up on the science behind that experience. It's rather fascinating! Also, personal experience is proof of nothing. I can cite personal experience accounts from every religion on Earth that confirms each and every deity to it's adherents.

The closest thing to all of this, it try to understand in a scientific way " What is love" where does it come from how does it work where is the proof that it actually exists. They are one of the same where does love come from just like the rest of it where does it all come from.

Take a biology lesson if your interested. Yes, science really does have the answers as to what emotions are, where they come from and how they affect our physiology.

Scientific fact????
How about personal seeing or knowing? Don't believe, find out for yourself. It really is the only way.
There are ways to see for yourself.
Is this a material world? Well, QM is showing us that inside an atom (a very small piece of matter) it is found to be 99.999% empty space, and i think that when they look inside the 0.0001% inside that is 99.999% empty space.
Also in the double slit experiment they have found that particles only appear when there is a conscious observer observing.
Is this an immaterial world? Could our minds be making this all up like it makes up dreams. Dreams are very, very convincing but is there any material (matter) in a dream?
Is tomorrow or yesterday made of material? Are thoughts made of material (matter, anything solid) can they be measured?
If this were a material world you would be able to walk to yesterday.

reply to post by Itisnowagain

How about personal seeing or knowing? Don't believe, find out for yourself. It really is the only way.
There are ways to see for yourself.

Do you believe in every deity worshiped throughout history then?

Is this a material world? Well, QM is showing us that inside an atom (a very small piece of matter) it is found to be 99.999% empty space, and i think that when they look inside the 0.0001% inside that is 99.999% empty space.

Point being? What it's not showing is that the stuff itself doesn't exist. QM deals with how subatomic particles behave, it doesn't say they don't exist.

Also in the double slit experiment they have found that particles only appear when there is a conscious observer observing.

No it doesn't, it's never said that at all. I challenge you to find one single scientific peer reviewed paper that states that as scientific fact.

Is this an immaterial world? Could our minds be making this all up like it makes up dreams. Dreams are very, very convincing but is there any material (matter) in a dream?
Is tomorrow or yesterday made of material? Are thoughts made of material (matter, anything solid) can they be measured?

I don't find dreams very convincing at all. The dreams I do end up remember are very different from my normal waking daily life.

If this were a material world you would be able to walk to yesterday.

Seeing that science is now starting to realize that time doesn't exist as a fourth dimension of temporal travel as postulated by Einstein, no you wouldn't be able to.

reply to post by sirnex


I think you are missing the obvious, space is a lot bigger than matter (if it exists at all). Everything came out of nothing. Nothing still is but you are imagining this. The presence of you is just an image, no more than a rainbow.

reply to post by sirnex


I don't see the deity connection.
You still believe the old paradigm, that you arrived on a solid world, a world that will still be here after your departure.
Catch up, the world appears with me, as me.

This is an interesting thread.

However, I grow tired of the ring around the rosie thing going on. I've been keeping up with both sides of the "argument" but I've yet to see much experimental proof. I do agree with Matrix Rising, however, because his hypothesis makes the most sense philosophically.

Any material we observe is only in our reality (space and time) because we focus our reality onto it. Thus it "matter(s)" to us.

And just to clarify, the circular argument here is VERY unnecessary and anti-productive to the collective understanding in this thread so... cut it out!

Originally posted by Itisnowagain
reply to post by sirnex

 

I think you are missing the obvious, space is a lot bigger than matter (if it exists at all). Everything came out of nothing. Nothing still is but you are imagining this. The presence of you is just an image, no more than a rainbow.

A tree is bigger than an ant, but the tree still exists to the ant regardless of it's size in relation. We don't know if everything came out of nothing, there's no scientific evidence that nothing has ever existed in and of itself. There's no scientific evidence that the mind is separate from the brain and that we're simply imagining everything as being in existence.

reply to post by sirnex


When you are in deep sleep, that can be called nothing. No awareness of any 'thing'. From that no 'thing' consciousness appears and only when this is present (you waking-conciousness) then and only then can the rest of the world with it's many things can appear.

Originally posted by Itisnowagain
reply to post by sirnex

 

When you are in deep sleep, that can be called nothing. No awareness of any 'thing'. From that no 'thing' consciousness appears and only when this is present (you waking-conciousness) then and only then can the rest of the world with it's many things can appear.

edit on 12-4-2011 by Itisnowagain because: (no reason given)

That's nice, my wife still tells me I snore loudly though.

Originally posted by sirnex

Originally posted by Itisnowagain
reply to post by sirnex

 

When you are in deep sleep, that can be called nothing. No awareness of any 'thing'. From that no 'thing' consciousness appears and only when this is present (you waking-conciousness) then and only then can the rest of the world with it's many things can appear.

edit on 12-4-2011 by Itisnowagain because: (no reason given)

That's nice, my wife still tells me I snore loudly though.

At the point, your perspectives of reality are different. And observation is the key to reality.

But anywho, "Consciousness is a Quantum Entity".

Your consciousness transcends the material world (especially apparent if you've ever had a lucid dreaming experience), yet your perspective is allowed to come back to the material world when in an awake state. Therefore, your material being is the antenna connecting your observation of consciousness between different states of being.

Consciousness= the observation of being= quantum entity (which makes itself appear by observing itself)

Originally posted by prepared4truth

Originally posted by sirnex

Originally posted by Itisnowagain
reply to post by sirnex

 

When you are in deep sleep, that can be called nothing. No awareness of any 'thing'. From that no 'thing' consciousness appears and only when this is present (you waking-conciousness) then and only then can the rest of the world with it's many things can appear.

edit on 12-4-2011 by Itisnowagain because: (no reason given)

That's nice, my wife still tells me I snore loudly though.

At the point, your perspectives of reality are different. And observation is the key to reality.

Regardless of my observation of it, I still snore loudly enough to wake her.

Originally posted by prepared4truth

Originally posted by sirnex

Originally posted by Itisnowagain
reply to post by sirnex

 

When you are in deep sleep, that can be called nothing. No awareness of any 'thing'. From that no 'thing' consciousness appears and only when this is present (you waking-conciousness) then and only then can the rest of the world with it's many things can appear.

edit on 12-4-2011 by Itisnowagain because: (no reason given)

That's nice, my wife still tells me I snore loudly though.

At the point, your perspectives of reality are different. And observation is the key to reality.

But anywho, "Consciousness is a Quantum Entity".

Your consciousness transcends the material world (especially apparent if you've ever had a lucid dreaming experience), yet your perspective is allowed to come back to the material world when in an awake state. Therefore, your material being is the antenna connecting your observation of consciousness between different states of being.

Consciousness= the observation of being= quantum entity (which makes itself appear by observing itself)

edit on 12-4-2011 by prepared4truth because: (no reason given)

Just to get this thread back on track (because it is excellent and deserves to live on):

What do you think about my last edit in relation to your personal experience with this theory?

reply to post by prepared4truth

What do you think about my last edit in relation to your personal experience with this theory?

I think you need a better understanding of quantum mechanics because it has never stated anything about the human mind creating reality.

reply to post by prepared4truth


You are no 'thing' observing nothing while in deep sleep. You are no 'thing' observing images/color/sounds while in what we call wake. Images/color and sounds are appearances. You are like a flat screen receiving pictures that appear to be moving. You do not move the images do. The no 'thing' is always present but it doesn't know this usually because the moving images distract it.

reply to post by Matrix Rising


I think there's a philosophical proof that can be made to show that the creation MUST be preceeded by an idea or a "thought" as the creative impulse which gives rise to manifest reality, reframing the whole kit and caboodle in terms of a monistic idealism (consciousness is primary) instead of a materialist monism or realism (matter alone is primary and consciousness nothing but an epiphenomenon of matter).
Roger Penrose and others have also shown that conscious awareness cannot be an epiphenomenon of matter, in the same way that no computer, no matter how sophisticated could ever become self consciously aware or have an experience of the qualia of consciousness.

The primary MO of the materialists, is an innate fear of a universal connecting principal grounded in a universal consciousness ie: fear of God entering the equation. It's an apriori, contemptuous bais prior to investigation sure to keep a man in everlasting ignorance.

We are not slaves trapped in matter, but free spirited beings who trascend the material world.

"God made you with spiritual wings to fly in the spacious firmament of love and freedom. How pitiful then to lop off your wings by your own hand and suffer yourselves to crawl like vermin upon the earth."
~ Khalil Gibran

Originally posted by Itisnowagain
reply to post by prepared4truth

 

You are no 'thing' observing nothing while in deep sleep. You are no 'thing' observing images/color/sounds while in what we call wake. Images/color and sounds are appearances. You are like a flat screen receiving pictures that appear to be moving. You do not move the images do. The no 'thing' is always present but it doesn't know this usually because the moving images distract it.

Go into deep sleep in the lion infested wilds. I'm going to guess that physical reality of a lions existence will still kill your regardless of your conscious observation at the time it starts ripping through your no "thing" body.

Originally posted by NewAgeMan
conscious awareness cannot be an epiphenomenon of matter, in the same way that no computer, no matter how sophisticated could ever become self consciously aware or have an experience of the qualia of consciousness.

The primary MO of the materialists, is an innate fear of a universal connecting principal grounded in a universal consciousness ie: fear of God entering the equation. It's an apriori, contemptuous bais

This.

If there were nothing but matter, discussion boards would not contain debates about where consciousness comes from.

Originally posted by sirnex
reply to post by jsettica

Take a biology lesson if your interested. Yes, science really does have the answers as to what emotions are, where they come from and how they affect our physiology.

No it doesn't. Neuroscience hasn't even come close to explaining where emotions, qualia, and consciousness come from. Studying neuronal firings and chemical releases when one experiences a certain emotion doesn't actually tell you how that emotion feels.

For example, no matter how precisely you describe the color "red" to someone, or what the tone of a guitar sounds like, neither can be known until actually experienced. Subjectivity is a huge part of emotions and to pretend it doesn't exist is to make a grave error indeed.

Neuroscience is great at describing how the brain processes information and the chemical-physical mechanisms of neuron activity. But it fails in actually describing what it means to experience.

Originally posted by NewAgeMan
reply to post by Matrix Rising

 

I think there's a philosophical proof that can be made to show that the creation MUST be preceeded by an idea or a "thought" as the creative impulse which gives rise to manifest reality, reframing the whole kit and caboodle in terms of a monistic idealism (consciousness is primary) instead of a materialist monism or realism (matter alone is primary and consciousness nothing but an epiphenomenon of matter).
Roger Penrose and others have also shown that conscious awareness cannot be an epiphenomenon of matter, in the same way that no computer, no matter how sophisticated could ever become self consciously aware or have an experience of the qualia of consciousness.

The primary MO of the materialists, is an innate fear of a universal connecting principal grounded in a universal consciousness ie: fear of God entering the equation. It's an apriori, contemptuous bais prior to investigation sure to keep a man in everlasting ignorance.

Perfectly said.

(double post)