It's time for mankind to break his Earthly bonds. Commercialise space and let NASA die!

If the earth is going to get whacked there's nothing we can do except try! The world destroys itself and then rebuilds. It's a never ending cycle. Earth will do what it wants too. But if we are in space we dont have to worry about that. We can gather more resources and build a new colony or whatever on a new planet.

Adapt to the situation and overcome! Humans have the ability to adapt to whatever they want so why couldn't we learn to adapt to a different living style on a differed planet!

reply to post by SLAYER69

Slayer, I don't quite understand your reply to my observation here.

Originally posted by TerryMcGuire
If we get off of this ball under that old paradigm it won't be like all the families and friends down at the docks seeing off the ocean liners, everyone waving and cheering with excitement. It will be will be like peasants on their knees, digging in the dirt for tubers, looking up for a moment to see a high flying 747 and then going back to digging for food.

Now THAT'S unpleasant.




All based on FEAR

Future
Events
Appearing
Real

Future Events Appearing Real? Is your suggestion here that it is my fear that allows me to see a future like this? That the future is not real, that it only has an appearance of realness in my mind and that I color that appearance of realness with my emotions? That the "possible" future I see is based only and solely on my fears? "All based on FEAR"

Ouch, Slayer, did my years of observing human civilization just get dissed with an acronym? Maybe I do need to go back and start all over again. Oh well.

reply to post by TerryMcGuire



FEAR based.

Meaning that no matter how far up the later we advanced that we will still have people groveling in the dirt for food.

At some point we should be able to solve that age old problem. As much pain and suffering that's in the world presently some people some place have always been groveling for food since the beginning of time. So how does that hamper us on the whole as a species reaching out into the cosmos?

Unless of course I've misunderstood the possible political nature of your reply.
Then I offer you my apologies.

Nice! S&F!! I'm with you here! But have you thought of this. If the Chinese get there first, they may actually buy it!!

Think about the psychological damage that would have on all Americans and anyone else for that matter. They could stake their claim, and we both know they have the money and technology to do it.

Now imagine, China decides to mine the moon and there are enough minerals there to power the entire world 20x over!! They would basically own all the fuel on our planet! Every grid imaginable. Then of course after laying claims to the moon, what if they decided to use it for a sinister purposes. Instead of their hard labor camps, they would just banish you to the moon!!

Just some crazy idea? Well, check this out!

Lunar Registry

When you get to the part that says no government or citizen can own any celestial body, including the moon according to the U.N., make sure you read the names of the countries whom refused to sign the agreement!

Russia, China, and the U.S. to name just 3.

Not such a far fetched idea after all.

Thanks,

Pax

First of all we would need a craft that will take us into space very cheaply. Lets say, make a large UFO type craft and fill it with a bunch of welders with small crafts that have arms to move,handle,cut,weld material, to fly around and weld up beams for a huge spinning wheel in space that can be added on to in the future. The wheel, 2 miles in dia. A guess. That was far more into space than our current satelites,so it would not fall to earth or moon. This wheel then would have a center for docking. That is for shipments of goods that are to be used for the progress of such wheel. The outer wheel having compartments on both sides with a road in the center. Each compartment self sealed for entegrity of air loss. A compartment the size of 50 ft.with a road of 20 ft and more compartments on the other side of the road with 4 passageways leading to the docking bay.Each wheel will have all nessessities nessessary for operation. A space for water and a small fusion reactor. Buisnesses, A small hospital, with a dentist, a kitchen,all kinds of stores, living spaces and extras, recreational, security, janitorial and other small jobs like shipping recieving. just guessing. You would have to have alot of space for buisness and able to ship products easily. Gee sounds really exspensive and when you think about it, you would eventually get bored , lets say like the mall of america seeing on a dailly basis. depressing.

reply to post by paxnatus



Well that made me chuckle. Who would the Chinese buy it from. Not that I doubt they will get there someday.
I say let free enterprise run and drive innovation forward. Why not sucking the tax payer for a snails paced approach doesn't seem do anything really except drive the debt higher.

reply to post by SLAYER69


reply to post by TerryMcGuire

Fear based.
Meaning that no matter how far up the later we advanced that we will still have people groveling in the dirt for food.

At some point we should be able to solve that age old problem. As much pain and suffering that's in the world presently some people some place have always been groveling for food since the beginning of time.

We have , we do, but we needn't always. I think we are clear here.

So how does that hamper us on the whole as a species reaching out into the cosmos?

I see that a misappropriation of wealth, be it sticks and stones or what we have today creates this condition or at least exacerbates It. The amount of the earths wealth it will take to reach a reasonable return on investment from the development of space beyond near earth orbit will be ,from my observations, so excessive that it will only increase this disparity and hence increased grubbing. A few private or governmental enterprises developing near earth orbit is one political question while moving on to the moon to a viable extent is quite another.

And yes I do see this as political. When I was young, my uncle fed me dreams of space. He had a telescope with which we watched the early satellites. I filled myself, with his help, with dreams of mankind moving beyond our earth and out beyond the moon. Then we got there and have not gotten back. Why?

Because we didn't want to? I don't think so. I think it was because private industry saw no short term profit in it, but now I am repeating points from my earlier posts in this thread. Now as you clearly point out in your OP, it has become evident that our government is not up to the task of getting us any farther than it has.

The exploration of space is essential, in my mind, to a vibrant human future and I heartily join with your desire to see this done. I just can make no sense of this being done by government in it's present form or private enterprise doing it in the foreseeable future without using an unreasonable amount Earths (including human) resources.

Much better I think to spend the all money and focus our intellectual resources into research and development which offers the hope of bypassing the moon entirely, or at least until being there is nothing more than a footnote.

And oh, thank you for the offered of apology but I assure you none is needed. Thank you for a very good thread.

reply to post by cloaked4u


Well all is possible if we collectively put our minds to it.

reply to post by SLAYER69


We have to go back and further, because with 7 billion people on the planet and more on the way our resources are being drained. In fact what will happen is the reduction of quality of living for the richer countries. I've said for a long time that our society and the world in general needs to advance to the new age, the age of space manufacturing, exploration and new sciences. I can't believe that Nasa had to go find out how they went to the moon in the first place. That shows you that our society and our sciences are stagnating. And the two reasons are National Security and keeping things learned with new techniques away from people. Because some corporations would be out of money and power if certain things where shown to the public and someone was able to say Eureka I know why that happened. And what I'm talking about is rotational physics (google that info) and the true knowledge of anti-gravity and space. Imagine if one day someone comes out and shows the media a simple tool to pull energy out of thin air via zero-point energy. Every home and place could have one and have the potential to pump out as much energy as they need. you wouldn't need oil anymore, you could run your cars on this, you wouldn't need power lines to your house or business anymore etc. etc. etc.. In essence it would make society and groups of people and communities more and more self sufficient. They wouldn't need to have centralized anything.

reply to post by cloaked4u


Our initial space stations would probably be pretty boring, but that's only up until we could make them really big.

Think beyond the initial. Giant forested areas populated with fuzzy animals and beautiful birds and maybe golf. Observation platforms where you can look out into space in different directions, or see a giant projection of the view through a massive telescope, maybe get a good look at a nebula or a blue super giant. Movie theaters, live theaters, restaurants, all the normal amenities of a big city. Earth rooms like in the movie Sunshine, which are rather self-explanatory I think. Just in case it's not, you stand inside and it simulates a prerecorded earth environment.

Honestly, when I get thinking about the possibilities for advanced space stations intended to support large populations through multiple generations, I don't see how anyone would prefer earth as it is, unless you've got a nice town you're living in right now. Or maybe if you like climbing mountains or caving. Of course, even those could potentially be recreated/simulated.

Thanks for informing me of this post. S&F
www.space.com...

Some commercialized craft, that got me pretty excited!
All from the private sector.

reply to post by SLAYER69


I am in complete agreement. It seems that private corporations actually have the silly notion that working on projects, within a budget and set time frame works. Hiring the best of the best and not confining their creativity with special interest gets the job done. Who would have thought?

Private companies may be allowed to conduct space flights but final oversight is to NASA and The US Federal Govt and will work to ensure that private interests do not interfere nor infringe upon the Prine Directive.

reply to post by TheImmaculateD1


I'm assuming you mean the Prime directive.
If so there should be some sort of regulation I agree

Once again, excellent thread.

Full of entertaining and useful information.

I have to agree that NASA should step aside. It isn't because I don't think NASA can't do the job, I just feel our our government doesn't believe in the benefits of a space program.

What is NASA's Budget? about 20 Billion?

Foreign aid gets more than that.

Uncle Sam doles out “more than $58 billion a year in foreign assistance through more than 20 agencies.” More than half of that, roughly $37 billion, is managed by the State Department and USAID. You may be surprised to learn that most countries outside of Western Europe, Canada and Australia get foreign aid from the U.S. This year the requested amount for Russia was $68.7 million. For China, it’s $12.9 million. A whopping $647.7 million has been allocated for Nigeria. Even $20 million is set aside for communist Cuba.

blogs.forbes.com...

reply to post by jam321


Star

To me it goes beyond the funding and using tax dollars it's the bureaucracy regulation/red tape many have to go through yo just get a program running. All the while Big brother is looking over their shoulders.

Questions I've heard from adults who watched the moon landing when we (US) went to the moon have been: what purpose did it serve, did they find the cure for cancer, have they found anything of import there, what have they brought back, etc. Some resent the fact that they view NASA as something they have to inadertantly pay for in tax money and want some type of result that NASA is accomplishing something for the better good of mankind.

Some believe that the moon is just full of rocks, perhaps it is, maybe it's not. Some have resented the fact that they basically came back with nothing; at least not that we know of.

Privatizing space exploration sounds good to me, why not? It seems to me that regular people down here on Earth are more concerned with making a living and getting through to the next paycheck. What an incredible hobby/business to take people into space on a rocket or whatever; it does take the daring to make history, after all.

Great thread Slayer

Absolutely human beings need to literally reach for the stars. Our future is out there.

Reminds me of Hicks at the end of Revelations


www.youtube.com...

Originally posted by SLAYER69
reply to post by Soulsofwe

 

Well some could argue that if more of us got up out into space and looked back on Earth the first thing they would notice is A. How small our planet really is and B. The fact that there are no imaginary artificial boundaries or lines signifying individual countries and reaffirming that we are all one species.

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/31f2ab7da784.jpg[/atsimg]

More of who? There are lots of countries on this planet and most of them don't have space flight - there is a monopoly on it. It's competitive, too - the 'space race'. Why does something that important have to be a competition? And what of the third world countries and poorer countries that don't have the resources or ability to have a space flight programme? Are they to be left in the dust? Are they less worthy than others to be eligible to go into space?

That's a good point, except for the fact that the powers that be, that send the few of us into space every so often, don't go into space themselves. Those that decide things wouldn't be affected by the view of our small planet alone in space, because they wouldn't see the earth from that point of view and their mind wouldn't be 'opened'. Neither would most of humanity's, for it's only the scant few that make it into space to see that view.

Space travel needs fuel, and *lots* of it. As does every day life, and look at where we're at with that - invading countries for their oil under the pretence of, well, anything. Doesn't matter as long as they get their oil. We're ruining the earth with deep-sea drilling, in areas we know to be unstable (GOM), too, so we don't even seem to care for the one planet we have. We can't look after it, and we can't look after each other.

We can't just head off into space while we're still a collection of petty countries fighting each other over almost anything. It would just be 'big oil' in space. Just wait until we find some new mineral that we can use for fuel - in our current state we'd just, again, go to war over it and fight for it, instead of sharing it and working cooperatively.

We can't break our earthly bonds and head off into space before we break our earthly borders and become a decent, cooperating species. Perhaps the view you mention can go some way towards improving the situation on this planet, but we also won't have that perspective until we've sorted out enough 'petty' problems to be able to generously fund space flight for the masses. It's something of a catch-22.

Originally posted by lifecitizen
Absolutely human beings need to literally reach for the stars. Our future is out there.

Well we have to consider if we would be welcome out there. I mean NASA has left a legacy of being "Cosmic Literbugs" They slam their garbage into and onto every object they can hit in our solar system and some of it contains plutonium

With a record like that of littering the cosmos with space junk we may find we are not wanted...