�Bush Lied?� Let�s Examine the Facts

OK. I am really starting to experience Google fatigue. I am going to post leads for two more Bush lies. Surely there is a poster out there who knows how to use Google who can nail down links for these lies.

1. In Bush's autobiography, "A Charge to Keep", he states that, after he completed flight training, he continued to fly with his Texas Air National Guard unit "for the next several years." I think we can all agree that several means at least three. The fact is that Bush flew for the last time in May, 1972, less than two years after he completed flight training. In July or August, 1972, with two years left on his military committment, Bush failed to complete a required flight physical, and was permanently grounded.

2. In 1998, Bush told a reporter that he had not been arrested since 1968. In 2000, Fox News and other media sources reported that he was arrested for drunken driving in 1976. I don't remember the name of the reporter. This doesn't meet the strict guidelines set down by the thread fuhrer, since it was not a public statement. We have only the word of the reporter.

Happy Googling.

EDIT: Maybe he said "for the next few years". Does less than two qualify as a few? In any event, Bush definitely created a false and misleading impression about his Air National Guard service.



[edit on 7/26/2004 by donguillermo]

.
George Bush,"I've been to war. I've raised twins. If I had a choice, I'd rather go to war." . . . Houston Chronicle, January 2002

George Bush has NEVER been to war.

www.motherjones.com...
www.dailytimes.com.pk...

Originally posted by slank
.
George Bush,"I've been to war. I've raised twins. If I had a choice, I'd rather go to war." . . . Houston Chronicle, January 2002

George Bush has NEVER been to war.

Didn't you know that, when George Bush was flying fighters for the Texas Air National Guard, his duties included guarding against violations of U.S. airspace by the Mexican National Air Force? He frequently engaged in dog fights with Mexican fighter pilots over the Rio Grande valley.

EDIT: So I don't get warned for posting false information, this post is sarcastic humor, not a statement of fact.



[edit on 7/25/2004 by donguillermo]

GOVERNOR GEORGE W. BUSH DELIVERS REMARKS

DECEMBER 13, 2000

...Tonight I chose to speak from the chamber of the Texas House of Representatives because it has been a home to bipartisan cooperation. Here in a place where Democrats have the majority, Republicans and Democrats have worked together to do what is right for the people we represent.

We've had spirited disagreements. And in the end, we found constructive consensus. It is an experience I will always carry with me, an example I will always follow...

The spirit of cooperation I have seen in this hall is what is needed in Washington, D.C. It is the challenge of our moment. After a difficult election, we must put politics behind us and work together to make the promise of America available for every one of our citizens.

I am optimistic that we can change the tone in Washington, D.C.

I believe things happen for a reason, and I hope the long wait of the last five weeks will heighten a desire to move beyond the bitterness and partisanship of the recent past.

Our nation must rise above a house divided. Americans share hopes and goals and values far more important than any political disagreements.

Republicans want the best for our nation, and so do Democrats. Our votes may differ, but not our hopes.

I know America wants reconciliation and unity. I know Americans want progress. And we must seize this moment and deliver.

Together, guided by a spirit of common sense, common courtesy and common goals, we can unite and inspire the American citizens.

Together, we will work to make all our public schools excellent, teaching every student of every background and every accent, so that no child is left behind.

Together we will save Social Security and renew its promise of a secure retirement for generations to come.

Together we will strengthen Medicare and offer prescription drug coverage to all of our seniors.

Together we will give Americans the broad, fair and fiscally responsible tax relief they deserve.

Together we'll have a bipartisan foreign policy true to our values and true to our friends, and we will have a military equal to every challenge and superior to every adversary.

Together we will address some of society's deepest problems one person at a time, by encouraging and empowering the good hearts and good works of the American people.

This is the essence of compassionate conservatism and it will be a foundation of my administration.

These priorities are not merely Republican concerns or Democratic concerns; they are American responsibilities.

During the fall campaign, we differed about the details of these proposals, but there was remarkable consensus about the important issues before us: excellent schools, retirement and health security, tax relief, a strong military, a more civil society.

We have discussed our differences. Now it is time to find common ground and build consensus to make America a beacon of opportunity in the 21st century.

I'm optimistic this can happen. Our future demands it and our history proves it. Two hundred years ago, in the election of 1800, America faced another close presidential election. A tie in the Electoral College put the outcome into the hands of Congress.

After six days of voting and 36 ballots, the House of Representatives elected Thomas Jefferson the third president of the United States. That election brought the first transfer of power from one party to another in our new democracy.

Shortly after the election, Jefferson, in a letter titled "Reconciliation and Reform," wrote this. "The steady character of our countrymen is a rock to which we may safely moor; unequivocal in principle, reasonable in manner. We should be able to hope to do a great deal of good to the cause of freedom and harmony."

Two hundred years have only strengthened the steady character of America. And so as we begin the work of healing our nation, tonight I call upon that character: respect for each other, respect for our differences, generosity of spirit, and a willingness to work hard and work together to solve any problem.

I have something else to ask you, to ask every American. I ask for you to pray for this great nation. I ask for your prayers for leaders from both parties. I thank you for your prayers for me and my family, and I ask you to pray for Vice President Gore and his family.

I have faith that with God's help we as a nation will move forward together as one nation, indivisible. And together we will create and America that is open, so every citizen has access to the American dream; an America that is educated, so every child has the keys to realize that dream; and an America that is united in our diversity and our shared American values that are larger than race or party.

I was not elected to serve one party, but to serve one nation.

The president of the United States is the president of every single American, of every race and every background.

Whether you voted for me or not, I will do my best to serve your interests and I will work to earn your respect.

I will be guided by President Jefferson's sense of purpose, to stand for principle, to be reasonable in manner, and above all, to do great good for the cause of freedom and harmony.

The presidency is more than an honor. It is more than an office. It is a charge to keep, and I will give it my all.

Thank you very much and God bless America.

www.cnn.com...

As divisive as this president has become, I think this is perhaps his MOST EGREGIOUS LIE!

It's late, need I really offer proof?

Thread Summary: Current List of Alleged Lies

This post presents a list of what I am able to discern as alleged lies presented in the thread so far:

shanti23: Bush claimed to see video of the first plane hitting a tower on 9/11 before entering the classroom in Florida, even though video of that event was not available until the following day.

koji_K: Bush claims that America is safer after removing Saddam Hussein from power, but the Congressional Research Service does not agree. (Note: A difference of opinion does not meet the guidelines for this thread, but I thought it reasonable to acknowledge the submission. Remember a lie must be proven false).

slank: Bush claims to have gone to war, but has never gone to war.

loam: Please post a more concise explanation of the lie in question.

The objective of establishing proof of Bush lies remains. For those objecting to the thread guidelines I have proposed, I remind you that they are guidelines that I request you to observe. What you choose to do is up to you, and I have no authority over anything except what I post.

If you consider the purpose of the thread to be worthwhile, I request that you observe the guidelines.

If you believe a lie has been improperly overlooked, misinterpreted or summarized by me, please feel free to clarify the description in a fresh follow-up post or edit an existing post as you see fit. A restatement of an existing lie allegation is less problematic than off-topic posts, so I recommend re-posting them in concise form when in doubt. Clarity is essential to success. While the thread may be off to a rocky start, it is still possible to refine the process as we go along.

Ironically, shortly after I started this thread I lost Internet access for a few hours, and some problems continue, leaving me at a disadvantage in terms of response and monitoring. With general Internet access restored, I have still been experiencing difficulty reliably reaching ATS this evening (have there been ATS site problems as well?). I will do my best to properly monitor the status of this thread as my access and schedule permit.

Regrettably, I have found it necessary to put donguillermo in ignore mode while monitoring this thread, and will not be responding to posts made by him.

I am sure there are more examples. Please keep them coming!

Edit: Spelling/grammar and format.


[edit on 7/26/2004 by Majic]

Majic says

Regrettably, I have found it necessary to put donguillermo in ignore mode while monitoring this thread, and will not be responding to posts made by him.

ROTLMAO! This is the internet equivalent of "La, La, La, La, La. I can't hear you."

So far, I have contributed five documented lies to this thread, given leads for two others, and am about to post another Bush lie.

Would someone please quote this post in your own post, so the thread fuhrer will know that all my posts have been on-topic since he put me on IGNORE.

Originally posted by donguillermo
Majic says

Regrettably, I have found it necessary to put donguillermo in ignore mode while monitoring this thread, and will not be responding to posts made by him.

ROTLMAO! This is the internet equivalent of "La, La, La, La, La. I can't hear you."

So far, I have contributed five documented lies to this thread, given leads for two others, and am about to post another Bush lie.

Would someone please quote this post in your own post, so the thread fuhrer will know that all my posts have been on-topic since he put me on IGNORE.

The biggest lie George Bush is a War president, and no links

The following quote is from a speech at Fort Carson, Colorado on November 24, 2003.

Working with a fine coalition, our military went to Afghanistan, destroyed the training camps of al Qaeda, and put the Taliban out of business forever. (Applause.)

www.whitehouse.gov...

I can show that Bush is lying with one of my own posts.

Taliban Alive and Well in Afghanistan

Please note that when Bush made this speech, the Taliban were already resurgent in Afghanistan. He had to know from intelligence reports that the Taliban had not been put out of business forever.

Don Guillermo I think that Magic is either pulling your leg or it wants to make you lose your temper, but I have to say you two should go into one of ATS debates it will be something to see.

Although I will say DonGuillermo will win

And Magic, nothing personal but I will raise the white flag if I was you and admit defeat, obviously if you can not accept all these facts as enough evidence of Bushes lies then you are in denial.


[edit on 26-7-2004 by marg6043]

"I've been to war." This by any standard interpretation means I have fought in war. George Bush has hardly fought for ANYTHING IN HIS LIFE, let alone been to WAR.

IT IS A FLAT OUT LIE.

THE FACT THAT ANYONE WHO HAS BEEN TO WAR WOULD TRIVIALIZE IT IS OBSCENE.

footnote to majic: I mis-interpreted 'loam' to be like ROFL, LMAO, I didn't realize it was a name of a poster. I appologize.

I have responded to the question of yellow-cake purchase by Iraq here:
www.abovetopsecret.com...
edit due to erroneous interpretation

[edit on 26-7-2004 by slank]

Thread Summary: Current List of Alleged Bush Lies

This post presents a list of what I am able to discern as alleged Bush lies, as defined by the thread guidelines, presented in the thread so far:

shanti23: Bush claimed to see video of the first plane hitting a tower on 9/11 before entering the classroom in Florida, even though video of that event was not available until the following day.

slank: Bush claims to have gone to war, but has never gone to war.

loam: Please post a more concise explanation of the lie in question.

For those implying that I have assumed a position of judgment with regard to the veracity of Bush lie allegations, that is not correct. I am focusing on collecting allegations which conform to the thread guidelines, and do not wish to comment personally within this thread on their merits, outside of those guidelines.

Regarding off-topic posts, I see no benefit in changing my ignore settings at this time. Should I determine a need for flames, insults, defamation, thread-stalking, childish vendettas and general abuse in the future, I will be sure to reconsider those settings.

I don't even like Bush, but just from looking at these quotes, if you read them without the purpose of finding something wrong, it is obvious that when he is telling the story he isn't intentionally lying to anyone- he is retelling an event and it is probably true that he saw the pictures of the building with a plane in it.

It would logically follow that a plane hit the building. He isn't misrepresenting anything. What do you want him to say???
"I saw that a plane had mysteriously materialized inside the tower"
Come on- it would be normal to assume the plane hit the building. If YOU were telling the story, honestly would you tell someone you saw that a plane hit the building, or would you tell people that you saw that SOMEHOW there was a plane stuck through a few floors of a skyscraper?!?


When I remember the day, I do remember the footage of the building getting hit- I don't think that "no I didn't see that until the next day"

Regardless of whether he saw the building smoking with a plane stuck in the side or the actual footage, calling it a lie and presenting it as if he is pruposely trying to mislead people is really a matter of how nitpicky you want to get trying to paint him as the worst problem the world has.

I'm sorry but I really wouldn't call this a lie, I call this being silly. What do you expect of the man? He is talking to the crowd telling a story- not reciting facts to a judge.

Originally posted by shanti23

President Bush Holds Town Hall Meeting
Aired December 4, 2001 - 15:18 ET
THE PRESIDENT: Thank you, Jordan. Well, Jordan, you're not going to believe what state I was in when I heard about the terrorist attack. I was in Florida. And my Chief of Staff, Andy Card -- actually, I was in a classroom talking about a reading program that works. I was sitting outside the classroom waiting to go in, and I saw an airplane hit the tower -- the TV was obviously on. And I used to fly, myself, and I said, well, there's one terrible pilot. I said, it must have been a horrible accident. www.whitehouse.gov...

Originally by George W Bush
Anyway, I was sitting there, and my Chief of Staff -- well, first of all, when we walked into the classroom, I had seen this plane fly into the first building. There was a TV set on. And you know, I thought it was pilot error and I was amazed that anybody could make such a terrible mistake. And something was wrong with the plane, or -- anyway, I'm sitting there, listening to the briefing, and Andy Card came and said, "America is under attack."

www.whitehouse.gov...

[edit on 25-7-2004 by shanti23]

"You know, one of my concerns was the farther we got away from September the 11th, the more likely it would be that some in our country might not think the enemy still existed. But they do. And they're nothing but a bunch of cold-blooded killers. That's all they are. People in our country wonder why, why would somebody hate America. It's because we love freedom, that's why. We love the idea that free people can worship and almighty God any way they so choose in America. We value the freedom for people to speak their mind in this country. We value a free press. We value freedom. And the more we value freedom, the more they hate us. That's why. That's why the enemy still exists." - Speech at Louisville Kentucky

Either he's a simple-minded buffoon, or that's a lie. The Bush family has been so close to the Bin Laden family (and Bush the First was head of the CIA for YEARS), that HOW could Bush think that they hate America because you're "free". It's Dr Seuss politics and it's an obvious lie from someone who should know better the reasons for Muslim terrorism.

..."You remember when [Secretary of State] Colin Powell stood up in front of the world, and he said Iraq has got laboratories, mobile labs to build biological weapons....They're illegal. They're against the United Nations resolutions, and we've so far discovered two. And we'll find more weapons as time goes on, But for those who say we haven't found the banned manufacturing devices or banned weapons, they're wrong. We found them."

At the time, it was thought by analysts that these MIGHT be mobile labs, but nobody had taken a serious look. So it's a fabrication to further political aims. A lie.


Give us a challenge here, he's an obvious liar.

"There was only one problem with President George W. Bush's claim Thursday that the nation's top economists forecast substantial economic growth if Congress passed the president's tax cut: The forecast with that conclusion doesn't exist.Bush and White House Press Secretary Ari Fleischer went out of their way Thursday to cite a new survey by "Blue-Chip economists" that the economy would grow 3.3 percent this year if the president's tax cut proposal becomes law. That was news to the editor who assembles the economic forecast. "I don't know what he was citing," said Randell E. Moore, editor of the monthly Blue Chip Economic Forecast, a newsletter that surveys 53 of the nation's top economists each month. "I was a little upset," said Moore, who said he complained to the White House. 'It sounded like the Blue Chip Economic Forecast had endorsed the president's plan. That's simply not the case.'" 2.24.03

www.bushwatch.com

Blanketgirl, you need to quote the whole passage:

THE PRESIDENT: Thank you, Jordan. Well, Jordan, you're not going to believe what state I was in when I heard about the terrorist attack. I was in Florida. And my Chief of Staff, Andy Card -- actually, I was in a classroom talking about a reading program that works. I was sitting outside the classroom waiting to go in, and I saw an airplane hit the tower -- the TV was obviously on. And I used to fly, myself, and I said, well, there's one terrible pilot. I said, it must have been a horrible accident.

But I was whisked off there, I didn't have much time to think about it. And I was sitting in the classroom, and Andy Card, my Chief of Staff, who is sitting over here, walked in and said, "A second plane has hit the tower, America is under attack."

He wouldn't have seen the French Fireman Video of the first plane, because that video wasn't released at the time Bush said he saw it.
In the speech, he clearly states that he saw the first plane crash into the tower because: "the TV was obviously on"
How do you know he's referring to the first plane? Because Andy Card walks in afterwards and tells him the second plane had struck the tower - this was the footage that was shown on 9/11/01.

It is important to remember that no news crew had a film of the first plane hitting the first tower, only the French fire crew caught it by accident and they handed the tape over later that evening, after filming the rest of the day and helping out at ground zero.

So it was a lie.

Also, he: "didn't have much time to think about it."
This was the time before he entered the class room.
So a primary school reading class was more important than an airplane hitting the WTC?
Even if the cause had of been 'pilot error' I think the situation is serious enough to postpone the reading class, don't you?

And the fact that he repeats his version of events at a later date during another speech shows it was just that: a 'story'.

No, this is not a court of law, but the facts speak for themselves non-the-less.

It remains a Bush lie and semantics is not going to cover it up.

[edit on 26-7-2004 by shanti23]

Bush and White House Press Secretary Ari Fleischer went out of their way Thursday to cite a new survey by Blue-Chip economists that the economy would grow 3.3 percent this year if the president's tax cut proposal becomes law.

Operative phrase/lie "IF the president's tax cut proposal becomes law."

"I don't know what he was citing", said Randell E. Moore, editor of the monthly Blue Chip Economic Forecast

Moore said that a survey taken in January BEFORE the president announced his plan forecast 3.3 percent annual growth between the last quarter of 2002 and the last quarter of 2003.

www.highcountrypeace.org...

The president tried to imply that the growth rate of 3.3% would be caused by his taxcuts.

A blatant mis-representation of facts.
.

That depends on what the meaning of "Is" is. Or, "I did not have sexual relations with that woman." Or, "We had an offer from Sudan to take Bin Laden..." which led to "I mis-spoke."

Don't you guys get it yet? ALL POLITICIANS LIE!!! EVERY ONE of them! There are ZERO exceptions to this rule. No offense Majic, I see what you are trying to do, but this thread is pointless.

Thread Summary: Current List of Alleged Bush Lies

This post presents a list of what I am able to discern as alleged Bush lies, as defined by the thread guidelines, presented in the thread so far:

shanti23: Bush claimed to see video of the first plane hitting a tower on 9/11 before entering the classroom in Florida, even though video of that event was not available until the following day.

slank: Bush claims to have gone to war, but has never gone to war.

loam: Please post a more concise explanation of the lie in question.

slank: Bush cited an economic forecast as claiming 3.3% economic growth if his tax cut proposal became law even though the forecast did not consider the effects of such a proposal. (Note: The link you provided points to a political advocacy website. If you are able to locate URLs for the original source articles, that would be preferable, if not �mandatory�)

If you have posted an alleged Bush lie not listed here or wish to correct an entry, please make a concise post with URLs and I will update the list as I can. Hint: When I scan posts for new allegations, I look for links, so please be sure to include them.

Thanks for the valid examples submitted so far, and please keep them coming!

Originally posted by kozmo
That depends on what the meaning of "Is" is. Or, "I did not have sexual relations with that woman." Or, "We had an offer from Sudan to take Bin Laden..." which led to "I mis-spoke."

Don't you guys get it yet? ALL POLITICIANS LIE!!! EVERY ONE of them! There are ZERO exceptions to this rule. No offense Majic, I see what you are trying to do, but this thread is pointless.

LOL. Standard Republican tactics. When faced with arguments and information for which they have no reply, they change the subject to Bill Clinton and his fellation by Monica Lewinsky.

Also, notice the misquote of Clinton, "We had an offer from Sudan to take Bin Laden". Clinton never said that. Sudan never offered Bin Laden to Clinton. The 9/11 Commission found that there was absolutely no evidence to support this completely discredited Republican lie, kept alive by right-wing propaganda sources like Newsmax.

Majic says

Regarding off-topic posts, I see no benefit in changing my ignore settings at this time. Should I determine a need for flames, insults, defamation, thread-stalking, childish vendettas and general abuse in the future, I will be sure to reconsider those settings.

Would someone please quote this post in your own post, so the thread fuhrer will know that I have now made six posts of Bush lies, and that I have not made any off-topic posts since he put me on IGNORE.

Notice the thread fuhrer accuses me of flames, insults, defamation, thread-stalking, childish vendettas, and general abuse. My position is that, since I am telling the truth about him, all of his charges are false. I report, you decide.

First of all, I am an INDEPENDENT, neither Republican nor Democrat. I am not a partisan HACK, like you.

Secondly, listen to Clinton... IN HIS OWN WORDS talk about the Sudanese offer to extradite Bin Laden to the US!!!

www.newsmax.com...

Quit being such a partisan hack! Clinton siad it, here's the proof! HE either lied then or is lying now. What's the freakin' point... ALL POLITICIANS LIE!!! This is NOT a partisan issue.