Why I believe Creation is factually accurate – The Reality!

reply to post by randyvs


I used to believe (christian) I feel that I woke up. I have felt what you feel but now I feel that although it was real I had misidentified the source. That is why I have no problem with you thinking it's my loss. i would have thought the same at one point in my life.

Originally posted by daskakik
reply to post by randyvs

 

I used to believe (christian) I feel that I woke up. I have felt what you feel but now I feel that although it was real I had misidentified the source. That is why I have no problem with you thinking it's my loss. i would have thought the same at one point in my life.

Woe, now there's something I don't understand.
Maybe you need to get there on your own. I was fascinated with the Bible and found my own way. It seems to be the only thing that just makes sense thru every aspect of my life. Christ is always there and frankly I love him.
No one else would do what he done for me. And for you as well. You need not even do anything, But accept what he did at the very least. That alone will save you. Simply love him back for loving you.

It's Gods will that none should perish but that ALL ALL ALL have everlasting life..

Define God. I have no doubt something greater than us created the universe but as for us,mankind,who made us?I question my origins Highly probable what made us is Alien Gods. The bible eludes to this if people really listen to the context of the words. I am amused how people don't question how a divine(from the heavens) baby found its way into the belly of a virgin but laugh at the thought of Alien Creators populating the planet with humans. Why is this so hard for people to comprehend?

reply to post by Quickfix

Thank you for referring me to those sources, I'll check them out when I have some more time

Originally posted by of the Ether
Define God. I have no doubt something greater than us created the universe but as for us,mankind,who made us?I question my origins Highly probable what made us is Alien Gods. The bible eludes to this if people really listen to the context of the words. I am amused how people don't question how a divine(from the heavens) baby found its way into the belly of a virgin but laugh at the thought of Alien Creators populating the planet with humans. Why is this so hard for people to comprehend?

It's hard to know of whom you are refering. I am not wanting to hyjack the OPs thread. I suppose his seeming absence is enough of an excuse for me to answer.

Science is on the verge of finding out this material world we experience everyday is one big landscapoe of illussion. God is real.

I have never laughed at people believing Aliens are God. Why would I do that? I get laughed at for my beliefs.
It's all the same, but it bothers me in the slightest of way. I know they exist. I also know they are not God. They have fooled people that way for thousands of years. They are the proponants of many false religions. And the ancients belived in many Gods because of them. They are in the Bible. They fit perfectly into the paranormal and the paranormal
is demonic. If you are one that is an avid believer that they could be God. Then you think more of what you think than what God has said. It's all just that simple.

reply to post by randyvs

Science is on the verge of finding out this material world we experience everyday is one big landscapoe of illussion. God is real.

Absolutely. But then we have to draw the distinction between religion and spirituality because they are often similar but different things. Problem is that "God" is such a charged word full of many meanings and understandings. God is no more the exclusive domain of Christianity than the rainbow is of homosexuals.

As for Daskakiks comment, and as I stated a little earlier, I grew up in a Pentecostal Methodist church with an Assemblies of God youth pastor. I was very into the church from birth to the end of high school. and then broadened my perspective. D's experience is interesting to me though as is yours as I've thought about that a lot over the years: The idea of people growing up in the church and leaving it for various reasons and the people that didn't finding Christianity for different various reasons.

Originally posted by Sinny
Just one quick question, and i dont mean to sound ignorant, but if a divine being created all life......what created that divine being?

Whats was the very first thing in existance? How did it come to exist?

My feelings so far are that ill never know in my lifetime, and the way to gain this info is through science.....pure science.

Please try to answer my very difficult question

My apologies for my absence - needed to take of something.

Anyway Sinny,
I'm not sure if you've read the earlier pages but your question was already answered - I'll just repost it here.


Anything "created" has a beginning. Your post does not prove any god/creator let alone YOUR god.

You could replace Yewah with the Kukulkan & Tepeu. And it would be just as valid of an argument.

If something is "created" it has to be created sometime .. right ?

edit on 8-4-2011 by LikeDuhObviously because: (no reason given)

Ah, the ultimate question: Who Created the Creator? Who Created God? Did God had a beginning like the material universe?

If you can grasps the following concepts then you will understand my point:

Do you believe based on evidence that there's such a thing as Infinity? I do.

Whether through mathematics or cosmology it can be proven that Infinity exist - for example, space is infinite.
Does this knowledge bother you? True it boggles the mind but can you accept it?

Here's another - the core of the sun is about 27,000,000 degrees Fahrenheit [15,000,000°C]. Can you fathom or even understand such amount of heat? True it boggles the mind but can you accept it?

Here's another - the biggest star discovered they say has diameter of our milky way Galaxy. Can you fathom or even wrap you brain around on such a distance? True it boggles the mind but can you accept it?

I can cite many more - but the point is, if you're able to accept such mind boggling, almost impossible to comprehend wonders of the universe - why is it impossible to accept that such a being exist?

A being that the Bible says who has no Beginning and No End - fact is the scriptures calls him King of Eternity.

“Now to the King of eternity, incorruptible, invisible, [the] only God, be honor and glory forever and ever. Amen.” (1 Timothy 1:17)


So the answer to the ultimate question about who created God is: NO ONE - He Always Existed!

If not - what's the alternative?

Either God does not exist thus ALL of these came into existence by unguided process or that someone created the creator - thereby creating an unending question of who is the real Creator?


But the Bible simply states the simple fact that God always existed - noone created him.

Isa 43:10 -ASV: "Ye are my witnesses, saith Jehovah, and my servant whom I have chosen; that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me."

Impossible you say. If so is Infinity impossible?

As for substituting a name for God (YHWH - Jehovah / Yahweh) you can do that but does this mean to you then that he exist? But right now we know him as Jehovah or Yahweh/Yawveh.

thx,
edmc2

... no worries 'bout jacking the thread randyvs- it's an open forum...

be back later...need to step away again...

reply to post by randyvs

My post wasn't directed towards anyone in particular.Just commenting:
No, they are not Prime Creator of All but they took it upon themselves to play God. They are responsible for human on Earth but not neccesarily human beings.Yet other accounts claim they took ape and whatever else to create mankind as we know it. They are still creating. I suppose they are evolution.

S&F, nice post. I think you can actually go much farther in the initial Genesis account of creation. I'll skip reading the rest of the thread as I'm sure its full of the atheists and God-haters spilling out their one liners and not actually debating the content (as usual).

2 Timothy 3:16 was allegedly written by Saul of Tarsus (aka Paul), who always called himself an 'apostle' but never actually met R. Yehoshua bar Yosef the Galilean Nazir (Gk. 'Iesous') in the flesh, but like my cook only saw glimpses of him 'in dreams and visions...' moreover, this Saul person fought bitterly with the family of 'Iesous' (aka the Ebionim, or 'the Poor Ones') in Jerusalem (see Galatians chapter 2, ' James and all those so-called pillars of the Church...', Yakov bar Yosef being the blood brother of R. Yehoshua bar Yosef (aka Iesous).

So there was a blood feud between this Saul of Tarsus (the capital of Cilicia in present day Turkey) and the family of 'Iesous' who also were called Nazoreans. Even the Apocalypse of Yohanon the Levite (whoever he was) aka 'Book of Revelation' in the Christian Bible speaks of a men 'who call themselves Jews, but are of the Synagogue of Satan' = a clear reference to the sso-called Pauline churches scattered about in Asia minor (e.g. Galatia, Corinth, Laodeceia, Phillipi, Ephesus etc.) - so we need not take anything allegedy written by this Saul of Tarsus person as 'divinely inspired...'

Curiously the Roman Catholic Church (and most 'Christian' churches extant to-day) are actually ALL Pauline Christians, as opposed to torah-abiding and circumcised Nazorean Ebionite Christians (i.e. Jewish Christians) who were founded by R. Yehoshua himself.

Nevertheless, the text off 2 Timothy 3:16 is often mistranslated from the Greek - which should read literally

"All Scriptures THAT ARE INSPIRED ('god-breathed') BY (the) GOD are USEFUL FOR PREACHING & INSTRUCTION...."

That's VERY different from All Scriptures are Inspired. Trouble is most modern day persons who style themselves 'Christians' have little Greek and even less Aramaic or Hebrew under their belt, and thus are not able to even read the Bible - they very text in which theey claim to be able to believe every word...' only in very bad translations - in other words they are at the mercy of their churches who tell them what the text says and hope (often) they don't research any of their spurious claims on their owwn...

At any rate, the phrase in 2 Timothy 3:16 means clearly (in the Greek) that only SOME 'scriptures' (literally 'writings' , Gk Graphoi, 'that which is expressed in writiing') are to be regarded as 'god-breathed' (i.e. inspired) and useful for preaching and teaching, while other 'scriptures' are not insspired by the god ('god-breathed').

To add insult to injury, by studying the Greek text, the content of 2 Timothy scholars have concluded that the whole 'epistle' is full of hapax legemona (rare words and phrases) and is completely non-Pauline in overall style when read closely - i.e. full of non Paulinee grammar, spelling, syntax, sentence length, word order and vocabulary - probably doctored up a smaller letter of this Saul person by a follower or a generation later perhaps - the langauge of 1 and 2 Timothy does not match the Greek style of 1 Corinithians, 1 Thessalonians, Romans, Galatians and Philemon - which show more unity of Paulinisms throughout.

So we are not here referring to a single book between two covers that is 'inspired' by any stretch.

Even R. Yehoshua bar Yosef (Gk. Iesous) and his disciples did not have a single set of Hebrew scriptures at his disposal, rather a collection of more than 500 books which were used as proof texts and scriptures for the Jews in the 1st century (witness all the books found among the Dead Sea Scrolls in Caves 1-11 which were not sealed up until June of AD 68 - long after R. Yeshoshua was executed for armed sedition against Rome (see Luke 22:35-36 for his arming his dissciples with real swords ! ) which took place during The Insurrection (see end of Mark chapter 14) on the 100th anniversary of the Roman Invasion of Pompey in BCE 63...what is even more curious is that there were found no fewer than 4 versions of the 'old testament' and apocrypha in the caves which differ from modern old testament 'Hebrew scriptures' by more than 20% per column if you count consonant by consonant in the text very closely (e.g. the protoMasoretic consonantal text of any one single book was being copied next to the Hebrew consonantal underlay of the Greek LXX Septuaginta, also being copied next to the text of the Samaritan Pentateuch right next to a copy of the Hebrew textual consonantal textual underlay to the versions of the Hebrew Scriptures of Theodotion and Aquilla (i.e. the same family of MSS ffrom whence Theodotion and Aquilla derived) and sometimes the text copies in the caves followed the textual family off Symmachus as well !

The so-called Old Testament canon (39 books) were not voted upon as 'sacred list of wriitings which defile the hands' until the so-called Council of Jamnia in AD 90 - 20 years after Rome ground Israel to powder during the 1st Failed Jewish Revolt in which 2/3 of the Jewish population in Palestine were killed.
So we don't even have a single VERSION of the Hebrew scriptures to refer to - much less call the whole lot 'inspired' by any clan-god ('god-breathed') whether it be YHWH the clan god off the postExilic Jews or anyboddy else's clan god !

So...to walk around making specious and unsupported claims that any holy book used by Jews & Christians today is in any way shape or form 'inspired' as it stands in translation is just plain ludicrous and flies in the face of the facts--and the fact that modern day ministers, priests & rebbes don't tell their flocks any of this is NO excuse for them !

We need the Holy Spirit because He teaches us and illuminates Scripture

The Bible tells us that the Holy Spirit teaches us and reveals the truth of Scripture (John 14:26, 1 Corinthians 2:10-14). This teaching and revealing work of the Holy Spirit is often described as Illumination. Illumination does not concern the impartation of new knowledge, but a clarification of the text as it stands revealed and inspired by God. I believe that it is especially important for the new Christian to understand this teaching and illumination role of the Holy Spirit because the Bible makes it clear to understand the “deep things of God” we need the wisdom, teaching and illumination of the Holy Spirit (1 Corinthians 2:6-16).

The authenticity of the Holy Bible has been attacked at regular intervals by athiests and theologians alike but none have explained away the mathematical seal beneath its surface.

It would seem the divine hand has moved to prevent counterfeiting in the pages of the Bible in a similar manner to the line that runs through paper money. Bible numerics appears to be God's watermark of authenticity.
www.wordworx.co.nz...
Dr Panin found his proof in the some of the oldest and most accurate manuscripts - the Received Hebrew Text and the Westcott and Hort Text.

In the original languages of the Bible, mostly Hebrew and Greek, there are no separate symbols for numbers, letters of the alphabet are also used to indicate numbers.

The numeric value of a word is the sum total of all its letters. It was curiosity that first caused Dr Panin to begin toying with the numbers behind the texts. Sequences and patterns began to emerge. These created such a stirring in the heart of the Russian that he dedicated 50 years of his life to painstakingly comb the pages of the Bible.

This complex system of numbering visibly and invisibly saturates every book of the scriptures emphasising certain passages and illustrating deeper or further meaning in types and shadows. The 66 books of the Bible 39 in the Old and 27 in the New were written by 33 different people.

Those authors were scattered throughout various countries of the world and from widely different backgrounds. Many of them had little or no schooling. The whole Bible was written over a period of 1500 years with a 400 year silence apart from the Apocrypha between the two testaments. Despite the handicaps the biblical books are found to be a harmonious record, each in accord with the other.

Dr Panin says the laws of probability are exceeded into the billions when we try and rationalise the authorship of the Bible as the work of man. He once said: "If human logic is worth anything at all we are simply driven to the conclusion that if my facts I have presented are true, man could never have done this.

Inspiration from on high

"We must assume that a Power higher than man guided the writers in such a way, whether they knew it or not, they did it and the Great God inspired them to do it''.

The Bible itself states clearly that it is the literal God-breathed'' living word of the Creator. The words "Thus saith the Lord"' and "God said"' occur more than 2500 times throughout scripture.

In 2 Timothy 3:16 it states "All scripture is given by inspiration of God". Then in 2 Peter 9:20-21 it plainly states: "No prophecy of the scriptures is of any private interpretation. For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost".

reply to post by Sigismundus


Wow...This is the most ridiculous thing I've ever read.

Might want to re-read the bible if you think there was a huge issue between Paul and Jesus familiy.

There are so many inaccuracies and overall non-sensical reasonings that I don't know where to begin. If I get a chance tonight, I may decide to thoroughly show you how ridiculous this post is. Or I may not take the time.

You need to find a new place to do your research.

Here's another - the core of the sun is about 27,000,000 degrees Fahrenheit [15,000,000°C]. Can you fathom or even understand such amount of heat? True it boggles the mind but can you accept it?

It doesn't really boggle the mind that much. The temperature of the sun is an observable, testable phenomena that can be independently verified using the scientific method.

Here's another - the biggest star discovered they say has diameter of our milky way Galaxy. Can you fathom or even wrap you brain around on such a distance? True it boggles the mind but can you accept it?

No, because it's absolutely untrue. the largest star known, Cannis Majoris, has a mass of 2100 suns, and while if it were in our solar system is equator would extend out to Saturns orbit, it is still a far cry from having the diameter of the milky way. Can you grasp the implications of an object with that much mass and the effects of its gravity on surrounding galaxies?

I can cite many more - but the point is, if you're able to accept such mind boggling, almost impossible to comprehend wonders of the universe - why is it impossible to accept that such a being exist?

because your "god" has yet to be shown to be a fact.it is not an observable, testable, independently verifiable phenomena

A being that the Bible says who has no Beginning and No End - fact is the scriptures calls him King of Eternity.

“Now to the King of eternity, incorruptible, invisible, [the] only God, be honor and glory forever and ever. Amen.” (1 Timothy 1:17)


So the answer to the ultimate question about who created God is: NO ONE - He Always Existed!

If not - what's the alternative?

Either God does not exist thus ALL of these came into existence by unguided process or that someone created the creator - thereby creating an unending question of who is the real Creator?


But the Bible simply states the simple fact that God always existed - noone created him.

Isa 43:10 -ASV: "Ye are my witnesses, saith Jehovah, and my servant whom I have chosen; that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me."

Impossible you say. If so is Infinity impossible?

As for substituting a name for God (YHWH - Jehovah / Yahweh) you can do that but does this mean to you then that he exist? But right now we know him as Jehovah or Yahweh/Yawveh.

actually, you know it by those names. people of other faiths have different names. why are their religions wrong and your judeo/christian set of beliefs the definitive answer?


I know there's no way in hell anything I have to say will ever change your mind or even help you see things from another point of view, but seeing a correlation between 6500 year old stories and current science is NOT evidence. you trying to interpret old bible passages and line them up with science that you can make work in your own mind is not much different than someone reading a Nostradamus quatrain and correlating it with something that has already happened and saying, "Look, here's my proof. Nostradamus wrote this 500 years ago and it came true!" It's not even pseudoscience, it's cherry picking facts that lean towards your point of view and claiming you took an objective scientific look at it which is completely false because you already believed in "god". remember, correlation is not the equivalent of causation.

edit on 9-4-2011 by peter vlar because: editing a factual error