Why I believe Creation is factually accurate – The Reality!

Originally posted by RSF77

Originally posted by Rustami
bla bla bla

That pretty much says it all now doesn't it. You can't listen or accept anything, but your mentally insane view of things.

edit on 9-5-2011 by RSF77 because: (no reason given)

yeah it really does and "real sorry" you're not impressed with me not "accepting" nor "listening" to lies..hey I noticed you did'nt notice that he did'nt even read the very first line...don't you wish- sorry charlie you won't escape the certainty either, so unpredictable- '" they said, “He is out of his mind.”

how did death enter humanity- was it a lie and if your "sanity" agrees are you helping them/him?

who said these non emotional appealing statements?-

But I say to you that for every idle word men may speak, they will give account of it in the day of judgment.

And nyle ye drede hem that sleen the bodi; for thei moun not sle the soule; but rather drede ye hym, that mai lese bothe soule and bodi in to helle.

Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it. And because I tell you the truth, ye believe me not.

Brood of vipers! How can you, being evil, speak good things?

This testimony is true. Therefore rebuke them sharply, that they may be sound in the faith, not giving heed to Jewish fables and commandments of men who turn from the truth.

love rejoices in the truth

how does He see spreading lies to his children?

“It is impossible that no offenses should come, but woe to him through whom they do come! It would be better for him if a millstone were hung around his neck, and he were thrown into the sea, than that he should offend one of these little ones. Take heed to yourselves.

For the law was given through Moses, but grace and truth came through Jesus Christ.

Originally posted by Rustami
let me be a little more specific one more time-
the original language I heard a FACTUAL audible invisible voice as the scriptures declare and as I began to open just the cover of a Gideon NT after an abortion had taken place said IN PLAIN ENGLISH -my name then "I am Jesus, I died for your sins, believe in Me and you will never perish" and the Angel I had seen as a kid when the man across the street had hung himself in his garage was with real eyes (he turned and looked directly into mine) that even my friend from Scouts had seen as it was flying back and just happen to kill himself later on as well

I don't think anyone would have taken anything in your earlier posts as something you had experienced first hand. I know I didn't.

I to believe what I believe because I have seen it with my own eyes and it has convinced me that there is no god. At least not in the biblical sense. Not gonna try to prove it to anyone because I know I can't. At least not those asking for objective facts. It's not that hard to understand although I guess, for some, it's tough to accept.

Originally posted by Rustami
reply to post by MrXYZ

 

should listen to your own advice! I know exactly what I've seen and heard, your fear of men and their delusions won't change a thing

predictable much?-

they went to take charge of him, for they said, “He is out of his mind.”

And he witnessith that thing that he hath seie, and herde, and no man takith his witnessing.
But he that takith his witnessyng, hath confermyd that God is sothefasten.wikisource.org...(Wycliffe)/John#Chapter_8

.

edit on 9-5-2011 by Rustami because: (no reason given)

And we all know subjective evidence isn't reliable

reply to post by Rustami


Do you even know what your talking about and quoting as ex-text without sources? Probably not huh?

Mr. Miagi think you need some professional help.

You'll just keep quoting garbage as some kind of personal opinion? I dare you to make a post without ex-text.

Originally posted by daskakik

Originally posted by Rustami
let me be a little more specific one more time-
the original language I heard a FACTUAL audible invisible voice as the scriptures declare and as I began to open just the cover of a Gideon NT after an abortion had taken place said IN PLAIN ENGLISH -my name then "I am Jesus, I died for your sins, believe in Me and you will never perish" and the Angel I had seen as a kid when the man across the street had hung himself in his garage was with real eyes (he turned and looked directly into mine) that even my friend from Scouts had seen as it was flying back and just happen to kill himself later on as well

I don't think anyone would have taken anything in your earlier posts as something you had experienced first hand. I know I didn't.

I to believe what I believe because I have seen it with my own eyes and it has convinced me that there is no god. At least not in the biblical sense. Not gonna try to prove it to anyone because I know I can't. At least not those asking for objective facts. It's not that hard to understand although I guess, for some, it's tough to accept.

edit on 9-5-2011 by daskakik because: (no reason given)

sure

Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son

And he witnessith that thing that he hath seie, and herde, and no man takith his witnessing.
But he that takith his witnessyng, hath confermyd that God is sothefasten.wikisource.org...(Wycliffe)/John#Chapter_8

Originally posted by Rustami
sure

Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son

And he witnessith that thing that he hath seie, and herde, and no man takith his witnessing.
But he that takith his witnessyng, hath confermyd that God is sothefasten.wikisource.org...(Wycliffe)/John#Chapter_8

Sure?!?! That's it? That is your only opinion... "sure"?

I'm pretty "sure" your don't have thoughts of your own.

reply to post by Rustami

You're sure I'm going to hell. Great, I got it, it's what you believe. What do you get out of repeating it over and over?

We can go back and forth saying "you have been lied to" to each other and still get nowhere. I don't feel the need to. I just don't see the point. Just let it go. Your bible quotes are not going to convince anyone no matter what you have heard or seen.

Originally posted by MrXYZ

Originally posted by Rustami
reply to post by MrXYZ

 

should listen to your own advice! I know exactly what I've seen and heard, your fear of men and their delusions won't change a thing

predictable much?-

they went to take charge of him, for they said, “He is out of his mind.”

And he witnessith that thing that he hath seie, and herde, and no man takith his witnessing.
But he that takith his witnessyng, hath confermyd that God is sothefasten.wikisource.org...(Wycliffe)/John#Chapter_8

.

edit on 9-5-2011 by Rustami because: (no reason given)

And we all know subjective evidence isn't reliable

well since you are subject, prove to me you are typing, who is God what does He say and where is your witness?

Receive ye Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?

So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe.
For the Jews require a sign, and the Greeks seek after wisdom:
But we preach Christ crucified, unto the Jews a stumblingblock, and unto the Greeks foolishness;
But unto them which are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God, and the wisdom of God.
Because the foolishness of God is wiser than men; and the weakness of God is stronger than men.
For ye see your calling, brethren, how that not many wise men after the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble, are called: But God hath chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise; and God hath chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things which are mighty; And base things of the world, and things which are despised, hath God chosen, yea, and things which are not, to bring to nought things that are:
That no flesh should glory in his presence. But of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption: That, according as it is written, He that glorieth, let him glory in the Lord.

Originally posted by RSF77
reply to post by Rustami

 

Do you even know what your talking about and quoting as ex-text without sources? Probably not huh?

Mr. Miagi think you need some professional help.

You'll just keep quoting garbage as some kind of personal opinion? I dare you to make a post without ex-text.

edit on 9-5-2011 by RSF77 because: (no reason given)

oooooh a dare

He that speaketh of himself seeketh his own glory

Originally posted by daskakik
reply to post by Rustami

 

You're sure I'm going to hell. Great, I got it, it's what you believe. What do you get out of repeating it over and over?

We can go back and forth saying "you have been lied to" to each other and still get nowhere. I don't feel the need to. I just don't see the point. Just let it go. Your bible quotes are not going to convince anyone no matter what you have heard or seen.

edit on 9-5-2011 by daskakik because: (no reason given)

no we can't though certainly if you believe that Christ Jesus is a lie you are in for quite the shock and whatever precisely hell may be defined as I'm certain murderers go there and be careful what you claim "I say" also

Heaven and earth will pass away, but My words will by no means pass away.

born again, not of corruptible seed but incorruptible, through the word of God which lives and abides forever

For the word of God is living and powerful, and sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing even to the division of soul and spirit, and of joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.

Seeing it is a righteous thing with God to recompense tribulation to them that trouble you;
And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels, In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ: Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power; When he shall come to be glorified in his saints, and to be admired in all them that believe (because our testimony among you was believed) in that day.

Originally posted by Rustami
no we can't though certainly if you believe that Christ Jesus is a lie you are in for quite the shock and whatever precisely hell may be defined as I'm certain murderers go there and be careful what you claim "I say" also

My point is that I understand this is what you believe. I don't care and if you think that when Jesus returns I will care that's my problem so why are you sweating over it?

I also don't see why I have to be careful claiming what "you say". It's part of the package deal in christianity so even if you didn't post it, it is a known part of the belief. Why else would I be in for a shock.

Originally posted by daskakik

Originally posted by Rustami
no we can't though certainly if you believe that Christ Jesus is a lie you are in for quite the shock and whatever precisely hell may be defined as I'm certain murderers go there and be careful what you claim "I say" also

My point is that I understand this is what you believe. I don't care and if you think that when Jesus returns I will care that's my problem so why are you sweating over it?

I also don't see why I have to be careful claiming what "you say". It's part of the package deal in christianity so even if you didn't post it, it is a known part of the belief. Why else would I be in for a shock.

well there are a few reasons but "I'm not sweating it" I'm glorifying The Word in "it" plus I have found that there are as many lacking thoughts regarding "part of the belief" as there are willing liars and if "you don't" why all YOUR bologne as well as the rest?-exactly! it is alot like a kid that was told not to eat the candy, his curiousity to do that gets him caught and in trouble, so it is because Jesus said His word will never end-get it? and no saying I said something I did'nt is called a lie-lies and murder go hand and hand, again it is relative to how death entered humanity

reply to post by Rustami


Your not sweating it your glorifying the word in it? You have got to come clearer than that.

As to the who said what, I never said you said it, I said you believe it and if you do believe it then it isn't a lie.

Originally posted by daskakik
reply to post by Rustami

 

Your not sweating it your glorifying the word in it? You have got to come clearer than that.

As to the who said what, I never said you said it, I said you believe it and if you do believe it then it isn't a lie.

"it" is the details and understanding of them that are crucial when making a case which I see you and many here lack, as for being directed towards me "saying it" I would'nt sweat "it"-I was just saying

But let him that glorieth glory in this, that he understandeth and knoweth me, that I am the LORD which exercise lovingkindness, judgment, and righteousness, in the earth: for in these things I delight, saith the LORD.

So speak ye, and so do, as they that shall be judged by the law of liberty.

biblegateway.com biblecc.com

reply to post by Rustami

I think you have already been told that the bible is not accepted as proof no matter how true you think its details are. You really are not making a valid case by these persons standards, or mine.

Originally posted by daskakik
reply to post by Rustami

 

I think you have already been told that the bible is not accepted as proof no matter how true you think its details are. You really are not making a valid case by these persons standards, or mine.

edit on 9-5-2011 by daskakik because: (no reason given)

hence the shock and who exactly do think will preside over the "case" and by what standard? I'm obviously not just addressing who you suppose

he hath appointed a day, in the which he will judge the world in righteousness by that man whom he hath ordained; whereof he hath given assurance unto all men, in that he hath raised him from the dead.

the very words which I spoke will judge

therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.

if a kingdom be divided against itself, that kingdom cannot stand.
and if a house be divided against itself, that house cannot stand.

For the nation and kingdom which will not serve you shall perish, And those nations shall be utterly ruined.

And whether one member suffer, all the members suffer with it

did this happen?

Jesus answering said unto him, Seest thou these great buildings? there shall not be left one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.

And he shall turn the heart of the fathers to the children, and the heart of the children to their fathers, lest I come and smite the earth with a curse.
www.biblegateway.com

reply to post by Rustami


The case at hand would be the topic of this thread not the final judgment. Two different things. The people discussing the idea proposed by the OP set the standard.

So the topic is showing how science backs up the bible. The OP at least gave it an honest go. You on the other hand are just preaching.

Originally posted by JudasIscariot
reply to post by edmc^2

 

I said I think he sums it up best... What don’t you understand about that?

You like to use the word creation, but I like the word invention. If God does exist I see him as an inventor, a scientist to end all science. Is it so wrong of me to think like that?

I have one last question for you and then I’m done with this subject because its quite obvious that its you who ridicules the belief of others because they don’t conform to your personal beliefs.

Why is it so important to you to try and justify your beliefs as fact and attempt to discredit anyone else who disagrees?

Now faith is the assurance of things hoped for, the conviction of things not seen.
(Hebrews 11:1)

You know JudasIscariot your moniker precedes you. Are you aware that whatever you say get’s invalidated by it?

What was your intention in participating on a Biblical discussion with a moniker of JudasIscariot if not to ridicule or offend?

It’s like participating in Jewish discussion where your moniker is Hitler. What do you think the reaction will be?

Besides, the question I asked was not to “discredit anyone else who disagrees” but to find out the intention. Do you actually believed what atheist/evolutionists Richard Dawkin’s said? That is:

Originally posted by JudasIscariot
I think Richard Dawkins sums it up best...

"The deist God is a physicist to end all physics, the alpha and omega of mathematicians, the apotheosis of designers; a hyper-engineer who set up the laws and constants of the universe, fine-tuned them with exquisite precision and foreknowledge, detonated what we would now call the hot big bang, retired and was never heard from again."

(as I already said),

======
… by quoting Richard Dawkins are you saying that what he said are facts?

That is do you believe that what he said whether it’s a “statement of faith” or a “scientific point” are based on facts?

In other words – my point is that you have not given much thought why you posted the quote. Was your intention to ridicule or to prove a fact?
========

If these simple questions make you uneasy and start accusing me as one who:

ridicules the belief of others because they don’t conform to your personal beliefs.

Then, look again at your moniker. I suggest discarding it and start new or someone else might not treat you in a kind way. Like what I said your moniker precedes you.

Yet you ask:

Why is it so important to you to try and justify your beliefs as fact and attempt to discredit anyone else who disagrees?

I assume you haven’t been paying much attention to the replies by opponents of the Bible because if you did then you’ll realize how blunt they are.

Following below my past statements are just a few responses from opponents of the Bible:

Notice who is ridiculing whom:

Here’s what I said about scientists pointing to scientific facts in which the Bible agrees:

“Evidence of a beginning “


The book “God and the Astronomers,” page 14, said:

“Now we see how the astronomical evidence leads to a biblical view of the origin of the world.”

The Hubble Telescope and other powerful instruments, higher mathematics and the brightest minds of science has confirmed this to be so: the universe had a beginning – ergo: The Big Bang.

Here's from:


Professor of astronomy David L. Block who wrote:

“That the universe has not always existed—that it had a beginning—has not always been popular.”

Now:

“Virtually all astrophysicists today conclude, that “the universe began with a big bang that propelled matter outward in all directions.” – reported U.S.News & World Report in 1997

From:


Robert Jastrow, professor of astronomy and geology at Columbia University:

“You can call it the big bang, but you can also call it with accuracy the moment of creation.”


“Few astronomers could have anticipated that this event—the sudden birth of the Universe—would become a proven scientific fact, but observations of the heavens through telescopes have forced them to that conclusion.”


“The details differ, but the essential elements in the astronomical and biblical accounts of Genesis are the same: the chain of events leading to man commenced suddenly and sharply at a definite moment in time, in a flash of light and energy.”

From:


Penzias, who shared in the discovery of background radiation in the universe, observed:

“Astronomy leads us to a unique event, a universe which was created out of nothing.”


“What we have found is evidence for the birth of the universe.” – COBE team leader George Smoot

“If at some point in the past, the Universe was once close to a singular state of infinitely small size and infinite density, we have to ask what was there before and what was outside the Universe. . . . We have to face the problem of a Beginning.”—Sir Bernard Lovell.

Physics professor Freeman Dyson comments:

“The more I examine the universe and study the details of its architecture, the more evidence I find that the universe in some sense must have known that we were coming.”

“Rather than accept the fantastically small probability of life having arisen through the blind forces of nature, it seemed better to suppose that the origin of life was a deliberate intellectual act.” -- British scientist Sir Fred Hoyle

From NASA:

The night sky presents the viewer with a picture of a calm and unchanging Universe. So the 1929 discovery by Edwin Hubble that the Universe is in fact expanding at enormous speed was revolutionary. Hubble noted that galaxies outside our own Milky Way were all moving away from us, each at a speed proportional to its distance from us. He quickly realized what this meant that there must have been an instant in time (now known to be about 14 billion years ago) when the entire Universe was contained in a single point in space. The Universe must have been born in this single violent event which came to be known as the "Big Bang."


Astronomers combine mathematical models with observations to develop workable theories of how the Universe came to be. The mathematical underpinnings of the Big Bang theory include Albert Einstein's general theory of relativity along with standard theories of fundamental particles. Today NASA spacecraft such as the Hubble Space Telescope and the Spitzer Space Telescope continue Edwin Hubble's work of measuring the expansion of the Universe. One of the goals has long been to decide whether the Universe will expand forever, or whether it will someday stop, turn around, and collapse in a "Big Crunch?"

science.nasa.gov...

Of all physical cosmological models, the most established and widely supported is the Big Bang. Much of the scientific evidence as well as mathematical predictions converge harmoniously into this model that speaks of a primordial very hot and very dense condition, once known as the primeval atom, that blew up (hence Big Bang) into what is now the Universe.

www.universetoday.com...
Scientist Sir Isaac Newton had this to say about nature and God:

“Whence is it that nature does nothing in vain; and whence arises all that order and beauty which we see in the world? . . . How came the bodies of animals to be contrived with so much art and for what ends were their several parts? Was the eye contrived without skill in optics, or the ear without knowledge of sounds? . . . And these things being rightly despatched, does it not appear from phenomena that there is a being incorporeal, living, intelligent?”

….

Here’s a reply from rhinoceros:

Those things imply that the Universe we live in had a start, however no implication what so ever is made towards a biblical creation with the beard guy at the helm. Could just as well be the work of Allah, Vishnu, Batman or something completely natural (as it has been observed that stuff pops out into existence from vacuum all the time).

From madness:

Argument from authority.

So what if people who were really good at science or other things believed in a deity? That in itself proves nothing. Their positions stand on the merits of their arguments and evidence, nothing more. Newton's achievements didn't happen because he merely believed them to be so.
…
Anyone who actually considers the Bible to be any sort of a scientific resources ought to chuck their computers out the window...

From MrXYZ:

Thank you for posting yet another great example for a fallacious argument...the so called "argument from authority". In every single one of the quotes you posted, those scientists are stating a BELIEF, not a scientific theory they backed up with objective evidence. Just because their scientific theories are brilliant, doesn't mean everything they say is the truth
…
But that doesn't mean everything they say is the truth, which is what you're implying. It's a very common fallacious argument.

In short, your argumentation is SERIOUSLY flawed, and your post isn't evidence of anything

These are just few of the mild ones.

So JudasIscariot – who is ridiculing whom?

Btw, any idea who sold the Lord Jesus Christ for a 30 pieces of silver? Sold him for the price of a slave to be made fun of, spit at, slap, punch, beaten to pulp then condemned to death at the hands sinners?

So JudasIscariot – who is ridiculing whom?

I hope you take up my advice. Change your moniker.

Ty,
edmc2

*Ahem*

To those who are using Bible quotes:

Why should we take the Bible as an accurate representation of the physical world? Where is the evidence verifying that its claims about the physical world are true?

Originally posted by daskakik
reply to post by Rustami

 

The case at hand would be the topic of this thread not the final judgment. Two different things. The people discussing the idea proposed by the OP set the standard.

So the topic is showing how science backs up the bible. The OP at least gave it an honest go. You on the other hand are just preaching.

again with the lack of reading comprehension skills, all things are relative to the Creator of creation and are framed by The Word, so as for comments getting more and more specific has to do with what had been directed towards me bearing witness to that fact- besides go review your own REAL off topics before attempting to claim

Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts,
And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation. For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water: Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished: But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire

God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,
Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds; Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power
biblegateway.com