Why I believe Creation is factually accurate – The Reality!

Originally posted by madnessinmysoul
reply to post by Faith2011

 

...no, he's correct. He highlighted the fact that these so called 'prophecies' were only applied as such after the events occurred...this is called a post-hoc rationalization.

No, You are WRONG! Again, You need to Open your Heart...Then you will Begin to See The TRUTH!

Holding hate in Your heart against Your Creator, Will keep you Blind and in Denial...

Originally posted by edmc^2

Originally posted by MrXYZ

Originally posted by edmc^2

Originally posted by MrXYZ
reply to post by edmc^2

 

And your proof of that is? Can't be the bible...because it's neither objective nor infallible.

huh??

Not able to answer the question?

One liners are such a bore - anyway - a law requires a lawgiver.

Wait...what? You accuse me of one liners after posting "huh??" SERIOUSLY?

And I think you're confusing man-made laws with natural laws. Big difference

Yet so far none has proven the Biblical accounts of creation false.

The creation account claims humans just popped up on earth in their current form...but we know for a fact that's not what happened! So saying it hasn't been proven wrong is hogwash...at least if you're talking about the literal interpretation.

But the fact that it mentions a great flood some 4000 years ago makes one pause about Noah’s flood.

In fact according to the book Myths of Creation, Philip Freund estimates that over 500 Flood legends are told by more than 250 tribes and peoples.

Most of these tribes have little or no exposure to the Biblical account of Noah’s Flood – yet the similarities of the events are quite interesting.

There's zero evidence for Noah's flood, at least if you claim Noah's flood was a global flood. And of course peoples' flood stories match, floods have common characteristics. Local floods can be devastating, so of course they get mentioned. And just like today, people go waaaay over the top when telling the story. Which is why we have crazy global flood stories or stories of people living in whales

Psalm 8:3, 4, reads: “When I see your heavens, the works of your fingers, the moon and the stars that you have prepared, what is mortal man that you keep him in mind, and the son of earthling man that you take care of him?”

Yet, the psalmist had no telescopes or special instruments. How much more, then, should we feel in awe today now that we have such powerful instruments like the Hubble Telescopes and unmanned space probes!

Wait what? Why should we be in awe just because he was able to tilt his head backwards at night and gaze at the moon and stars? He didn't understand how those stars came to be, so he believed it to be god's work. Today we know that's not the case. The quote shows 2 things: He was in awe (and rightfully so, the night sky is a beautiful thing), and had a lack of knowledge to explain that beauty...

Originally posted by Faith2011
reply to post by MrXYZ

 

There you go spewing error again...

I'm spreading truthiness!!! And you can't stop me

No, You are WRONG! Again, You need to Open your Heart...Then you will Begin to See The TRUTH!

Holding hate in Your heart against Your Creator, Will keep you Blind and in Denial...

How about using logic too? Just a bit? Your nonsense about hate isn't beneficial in any way. Why would madness' need for proper evidence be a sign of hate?

You can't claim something's the truth without providing any evidence apart from sermons.

Originally posted by edmc^2
NONE of the myths invented by man have such detailed and accurate description of Creation account.

Yet so far none has proven the Biblical accounts of creation false. Instead the account agrees with known scientific facts.

But as to myths, the are just that myths – will not be able to stand when scrutinized in light of modern scientific knowledge.

To be honest the thrusting of christianity upon indigenous people all over the world destroyed many of the oral traditions that these had eliminating their stories or reducing them to mere childrens versions.

Now in the OP you said the fact that the bible says their was a beginning made it factual. Now that other stories that also have a beggining have been brought up your trying to add more qualifiers. Sorry but to me your myth is just a fancy, nurtured myth. Given the chance to survive and even to be worked on by scores of learned men.

Correct it’s still an ongoing debate – bottom line is they have no accurate way of quantifying/identifying it (yet) but they are convince that it (dark energy/dark matter) makes up 70 -75% of the universe.

Picture was taken from a simulation in the yt video that I included in the OP.

Proves my point. How can an ongoing debate and a simulation be proven fact. If it were proven there would be nothing to debate.

Originally posted by MrXYZ

Originally posted by Faith2011
reply to post by MrXYZ

 

There you go spewing error again...

I'm spreading truthiness!!! And you can't stop me

No, You are WRONG! Again, You need to Open your Heart...Then you will Begin to See The TRUTH!

Holding hate in Your heart against Your Creator, Will keep you Blind and in Denial...

How about using logic too? Just a bit? Your nonsense about hate isn't beneficial in any way. Why would madness' need for proper evidence be a sign of hate?

You can't claim something's the truth without providing any evidence apart from sermons.

X=24 Y=25 Z=26 =75 You Will Live Forever... (Eternal=75) Your only making it bad For Yourself...

reply to post by Faith2011


1+2=3 so what? That doesn't prove anything you claim it does

Faith2011,I don't think God would approve of your behavior.
You almost act like an extremist.
If we don't believe what you believe,then we are going to hell.

reply to post by daskakik

To be honest the thrusting of christianity upon indigenous people all over the world destroyed many of the oral traditions that these had eliminating their stories or reducing them to mere childrens versions.

This is where people get confused – because of the sins of Christendom, Christianity gets the blame as if Jesus Christ himself was responsible for it or approved of it.

Now in the OP you said the fact that the bible says their was a beginning made it factual. Now that other stories that also have a beggining have been brought up your trying to add more qualifiers. Sorry but to me your myth is just a fancy, nurtured myth. Given the chance to survive and even to be worked on by scores of learned men.

No I'm not adding more qualifiers - just explaining them to you. But if you believe that “Obassi Osaw and Obassi Nsi“ were the ones who created the “heavens” and the “earth” - I have no problem with that. But it's still a myth. By the way – do you know what happened in the end of the myth?

As for the Biblical Creation supported by scientific facts, if you're not convince then it's up to you. But just to let know – I've proven them to be scientifically valid.

Correct it’s still an ongoing debate – bottom line is they have no accurate way of quantifying/identifying it (yet) but they are convince that it (dark energy/dark matter) makes up 70 -75% of the universe.

Picture was taken from a simulation in the yt video that I included in the OP.

Proves my point. How can an ongoing debate and a simulation be proven fact. If it were proven there would be nothing to debate.

Per your link and per the yt link – both have different opinion or findings so it's a continuing debate.

Of course the debate was in regards to dark matter/dark energy not the expanding universe or the Big Bang which you don't also believe.

But this is what puzzles me – people asked for scientific evidence but when presented they reject it and come up with so many excuses.

But fact is fact whether you accept it or not.

Ty,
edmc2

reply to post by MrXYZ

Wait...what? You accuse me of one liners after posting "huh??" SERIOUSLY?

I’m just merely answering you back the same way. So I guess you got the point.

And I think you're confusing man-made laws with natural laws. Big difference

Just merely saying that law require a lawmaker and lawgiver – and that’s a fact whatever form it is.

The creation account claims humans just popped up on earth in their current form...but we know for a fact that's not what happened! So saying it hasn't been proven wrong is hogwash...at least if you're talking about the literal interpretation.

Well that’s your version fact, but I need to correct you on something, the first man was CREATED out of the dust of the ground not "popped up on earth" – but which one is supported by scientific evidence?

1) Non-living things can produce a living thing?
or
2) Life can only come from life?

where the Bible states that “For with you is the source of life...”—Ps. 36:9.

If item 1 is your answer (which I think is) then please by all means prove it. I’ve already proved #2.

Also since you agree that:

3) The universe and the earth had a beginning and that the earth is hanging “upon nothing – empty space” then I will not ask you to disprove them...unless...

There's zero evidence for Noah's flood, at least if you claim Noah's flood was a global flood. And of course peoples' flood stories match, floods have common characteristics. Local floods can be devastating, so of course they get mentioned. And just like today, people go waaaay over the top when telling the story. Which is why we have crazy global flood stories or stories of people living in whales

Of course there’s evidence – you just refuse to look at them because it will invalidate your preconceived ideas. Hey – maybe this is good subject to tackle in my next thread hmmm.

Wait what? Why should we be in awe just because he was able to tilt his head backwards at night and gaze at the moon and stars? He didn't understand how those stars came to be, so he believed it to be god's work. Today we know that's not the case. The quote shows 2 things: He was in awe (and rightfully so, the night sky is a beautiful thing), and had a lack of knowledge to explain that beauty...

Well at least you recognized them as beautiful this time – good for you – in fact beauty surrounds us but you refused to look at them as products of a Loving Creator. You only see the ugly as evidence by the vids you've posted - then blame God for them.

Which I think is sad.

But I on the other hand am of the same mind and thought as the psalmists when he declared:


“When I see your heavens, the works of your fingers, the moon and the stars that you have prepared, what is mortal man that you keep him in mind, and the son of earthling man that you take care of him?” -- Psalm 8:3, 4,

Always thankful for life each day.

Amen!

Ty,

edmc2

reply to post by kdog1982

We discovered fire then and how to harness it's power then,so I think we were smart enough then
to observe nature and learn how things worked.

Just so you know we did not discover FIRE – it was shown/given to us right from the very beginning.

Notice just from these two verses (there’s more):


“And so he drove the man out and posted at the east of the garden of E′den the cherubs and the flaming blade of a sword that was turning itself continually to guard the way to the tree of life.” (Genesis 3:24)

“As for Zil′lah, she too gave birth to Tu′bal-cain, the forger of every sort of tool of copper and iron. And the sister of Tu′bal-cain was Na′a·mah.” (Genesis 4:22)


SO mankind was already familiar with fire right from the start.

Ty

edmc2

reply to post by edmc^2

Just merely saying that law require a lawmaker and lawgiver – and that’s a fact whatever form it is.

Prove it

Well that’s your version fact, but I need to correct you on something, the first man was CREATED out of the dust of the ground not "popped up on earth" – but which one is supported by scientific evidence?

1) Non-living things can produce a living thing?
or
2) Life can only come from life?

I'm not talking about how life first started, that would be abiogenesis and not evolution. We don't know how life first started, that's why there's a few hypotheses.

I'm talking about how the bible claims homo sapiens was there from the start...which is demonstrably hogwash. And homo sapiens also didn't just came to be from "dust", we're the product of millions of years of evolution

THAT's why I said the bible is demonstrably wrong with the Genesis account.

3) The universe and the earth had a beginning and that the earth is hanging “upon nothing – empty space” then I will not ask you to disprove them...unless...

Gravity isn't nothing

Of course there’s evidence – you just refuse to look at them because it will invalidate your preconceived ideas. Hey – maybe this is good subject to tackle in my next thread hmmm.

Then prove it! Show me unbiased, peer reviewed, objective evidence of a global flood

Well at least you recognized them as beautiful this time – good for you – in fact beauty surrounds us but you refused to look at them as products of a Loving Creator.

Of course I refuse to believe in something that's not backed up by evidence...it's called LOGIC

You only see the ugly as evidence by the vids you've posted - then blame God for them.

I'm not blaming god for anything, just like I don't blame unicorns, dragons, or elves for "ugly" stuff

SO mankind was already familiar with fire right from the start.

And metalwork too it seems...complete and utter nonsense

reply to post by edmc^2


Not judging christianity just pointing out that it is one of the reasons myths are simple. Now in the OP you wrote:

How did Moses, a “goat herder” (as referred to here on ATS) get the facts right? How did he knew that the universe (heavens) and the earth had a beginning whereas these amazing scientific facts were known just recently (1900s)?

Nothing else, just the fact that Moses knowing that there was a beginning was knowledge handed down by the divine. Now the creation myth that I quoted is all there is. Now comes the hard part for you. Since the myth doesn't really make any more claims other than what is in that quote your going to have a hard time disproving it. I mean that is what you ask us to do so I think turnabout is fair play.

The black matter question is your fact #2. You stated that you had facts to back up the bible. Two camps debating the existence of something only proves that it is not a "proven" fact so you have nothing backing up the "fine gauze" statement in the bible.

When people ask for scientific evidence they want something proven not just something that looks good in simulation.

Originally posted by kdog1982
Faith2011,I don't think God would approve of your behavior.
You almost act like an extremist.
If we don't believe what you believe,then we are going to hell.

I hope everyone who really seeks The Truth - God / The Creator, Will come to Know Him as Their Maker!

GOD ALONE WILL JUDGE EVERY PERSON.

reply to post by daskakik

Nothing else, just the fact that Moses knowing that there was a beginning was knowledge handed down by the divine. Now the creation myth that I quoted is all there is. Now comes the hard part for you. Since the myth doesn't really make any more claims other than what is in that quote your going to have a hard time disproving it. I mean that is what you ask us to do so I think turnabout is fair play.

Fair enuff.

Now here's what I said in my earlier post - "Another thing to remember also about myth is that they are exaggerations and distortion of factual events. But even though they are exaggerated and distorted in one form or another there’s a kernel of truth in them. But taken as a whole – they are just that a myth."

That fact that the Southern Nigeria myth you quoted mentions a "beginning" shows the truthfulness of what I said. That is "there’s a kernel of truth in them". The "beginning" is the kernel of truth that was talking about. Now the rest of the story is an exaggeration or distortion of the fact. That is "Obassi Osaw and Obassi Nsi. The two gods created everything together."

Fact that "Obassi Osaw and Obassi Nsi" are only accepted in Nigeria proves that it's their myth. How many do you think believe this to be the truth and nothing but the truth? Probably very few (now). Yet the Bible's description of Creation is believed by many - even persons with scientific backgrounds. Of course you will say that this does not prove that it's the fact. Then at these juncture there's no other alternative for you but to believed whatever you want to believe. But as far as the OP is concern - the facts are all there and are proven to be accurate and true based on scientific evidence.

Next you said:

The black matter question is your fact #2. You stated that you had facts to back up the bible. Two camps debating the existence of something only proves that it is not a "proven" fact so you have nothing backing up the "fine gauze" statement in the bible.

This is what I call twisting in the wind:

Let's go back to what I said in the OP:

Next evidence:

Fact 2) In the eighth century B.C.E. Isaiah wrote of Jehovah “...the One who is stretching out the heavens just as a fine gauze, who spreads them out like a tent in which to dwell,” (Isaiah 40:22 NWT/ also DBY)

Is there any scientific proof to this statement? What does the evidence show?

----Consider just two of the amazing images captured by modern instruments:-----

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/084610c9e1fc.jpg[/atsimg]

www.youtube.com...=26

---------------------Image of the universe containing dark matter-------------------------
[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/18aa6057e918.jpg[/atsimg]
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Notice the use of the phrase “fine gauze,” rather than the coarser tent cloth. This expression describes accurately the delicate construction of such "heavenly canopy". A fact confirmed by modern astronomy (as mentioned) through the use of modern imaging instruments.

So how did the prophet Isaiah knew this to be so and where did he get this space age information? A lucky guess, coincidence or Divine inspiration? The latter is the most logical and obvious answer.

Do the facts show this to be so? There's no doubt about it!

What say you ATS?

== looks like you got tied up by the expression “dark matter”. Matter of fact I got the expression in the YouTube video – beginning at time stamped 16:00.

But main point of fact #2 is this:

Notice the use of the phrase “fine gauze,” rather than the coarser tent cloth. This expression describes accurately the delicate construction of such "heavenly canopy". A fact confirmed by modern astronomy (as mentioned) through the use of modern imaging instruments.

Again back to my ealier post I said the following:

How about the writer of the Bible? Rather than use a course fabric terminology, the writer used “fine gauze” fabric terminology to describe the starry heavens. Does it agree with what scientists had observed? I say, most definitely.

Think about this too, on a clear night if you look at the heavens the thousands of stars do, indeed, form a lacy web stretched over the black velvet background of space. In fact even the enormous galaxy known as the Via Lactea, or Milky Way, in which our solar system is located, has a filmy gauzelike appearance from earth’s viewpoint.

Below is a view of “Via Lactea” from earth:

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/8bdf9e589eab.jpg[/atsimg]

A closer look:

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/eae88c18a3bf.jpg[/atsimg]

Q: Do you think the prophet Isaiah was referring to something like this as “stretching out the heavens just as a fine gauze”? Or was he referring to clouds? Which one makes more sense?


Now is it coincidence, a wild guess, a borrowed idea that the Bible writer wrote it this way? That is, “One who is stretching out the heavens just as a fine gauze?

I say no – because the prophet Isaiah was stating the observable facts and the facts given to him.

Here’s a SKY Survey of our Milky Galaxy:

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/54e9d5171bda.jpg[/atsimg]

Here’s a closer look of our galaxy - 360 view of just our Milky Way Galaxy which is a part of a local group of about 50 galaxies in a local group of clusters in the Virgo Supercluster.

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/f0c61dd11090.jpg[/atsimg]


So without a doubt the Bible writer knew what he wrote when he saw the Heavens - the starry filled heavens. It’s only now that we’re confirming this to be so in “finer” detail - a truly remarkable achievement in our time.

But I guess all of these doesn't matter because you're tied up with “dark matter”.

Nothing I can do about that.

ty,
edmc2

Originally posted by MrXYZ
reply to post by Faith2011

 

1+2=3 so what? That doesn't prove anything you claim it does

God's Word Says It Best!

PSALM 19
1THE HEAVENS declare the glory of God; and the firmament shows and proclaims His handiwork.

2Day after day pours forth speech, and night after night shows forth knowledge.

3There is no speech nor spoken word [from the stars]; their voice is not heard.

4Yet their voice [in evidence] goes out through all the earth, their sayings to the end of the world. Of the heavens has God made a tent for the sun,(B)

5Which is as a bridegroom coming out of his chamber; and it rejoices as a strong man to run his course.
6Its going forth is from the end of the heavens, and its circuit to the ends of it; and nothing [yes, no one] is hidden from the heat of it.

7The law of the Lord is perfect, restoring the [whole] person; the testimony of the Lord is sure, making wise the simple.

8The precepts of the Lord are right, rejoicing the heart; the commandment of the Lord is pure and bright, enlightening the eyes.

9The [reverent] fear of the Lord is clean, enduring forever; the ordinances of the Lord are true and righteous altogether.

10More to be desired are they than gold, even than much fine gold; they are sweeter also than honey and drippings from the honeycomb.
11Moreover, by them is Your servant warned (reminded, illuminated, and instructed); and in keeping them there is great reward.

12Who can discern his lapses and errors? Clear me from hidden [and unconscious] faults.

13Keep back Your servant also from presumptuous sins; let them not have dominion over me! Then shall I be blameless, and I shall be innocent and clear of great transgression.

14Let the words of my mouth and the meditation of my heart be acceptable in Your sight, O Lord, my [firm, impenetrable] Rock and my Redeemer.

Originally posted by edmc^2
Fact that "Obassi Osaw and Obassi Nsi" are only accepted in Nigeria proves that it's their myth.

Am I misunderstanding this or are you implying that truth is a popularity contest?

This is what I call twisting in the wind:

Sorry I don't see any twisting. You plainly said black matter was a fact and it backed up Isaiah 40:22. Yes you went on to add images of the milky way and other space shots but the sad thing is that none of them look like the black matter illustration and neither of them look like fine gauze.

Heres some pics of fine gauze:

Close ups
Half way down the page.

Plain view

Also this quote from the wikipedia on Saturn

The particles that make up the rings range in size from specks of dust to the size of a small automobile.

Not what I would call delicate at all although from a far Saturns rings would fit the description. Point being that Isaiah was probably just being poetic. Your just giving him to much credit if it's even really him that wrote it and if it really was what was written. Even with your scientific facts there's still a major need for faith.

reply to post by MrXYZ

Just merely saying that law require a lawmaker and lawgiver – and that’s a fact whatever form it is.

Prove it :

What's the point proving it to you since you don't accept logic as part of evidence? And what proof are you looking for? What if I say that by all accounts, scientific evidence as well as mathematical evidence and I might add LOGIC tells us that Kepler's Planetary Laws of Motion can't exist w/o someone putting it there. What will you say? Impossible- because we don't have evidence? Or you will say again prove it.

Yet just because we can't understand something doesn't mean that it's impossible to occur.

Note again Dr. Michio Kaku:

"the God of Miracles is, in some sense, beyond what we know as science. This is not to say that miracles cannot happen, only that they are outside what is commonly called science."

But as far as laws are concern - whether man's especially nature's law - which is very precise, "fine tuned" as scientists puts they cannot exist w/o intelligence and outside force - a body acting upon it (lawmaker). Of course this is just logic to you so it's not considered as evidence.


Next u said:

I'm not talking about how life first started, that would be abiogenesis and not evolution. We don't know how life first started, that's why there's a few hypotheses.

By admitting that "We don't know how life first started, that's why there's a few hypotheses." are u saying then that #2) Life can only come from life - is true and a factually accurate statement?

or not because u said:

I'm talking about how the bible claims homo sapiens was there from the start...which is demonstrably hogwash. And homo sapiens also didn't just came to be from "dust", we're the product of millions of years of evolution :

THAT's why I said the bible is demonstrably wrong with the Genesis account.

That's understandable because you don't view the Bible as factually accurate when it comes to scientific facts and don't accept it as the word of God.

As for man from "dust" consider this simple logic (I know you don't accept logic but hear me out):

To show that the Genesis statement believable and unmistakable.

Man’s relationship to the “dust from the ground,” as Genesis puts it, is indisputable. All the chemicals that make up the human body are found in the “dust from the ground.” In fact, man relies on this “dust” for his continued existence. He sustains and regenerates his body with food made of nutrients that are found in the “dust from the ground,” processed through the plants and animals that he eats. Are these facts? Scientific facts are well as logic facts? I say yes but I know you don't agree.

here's what scientists have concluded:

Dr. Alexis Carrel, the late famed biologist and Nobel Prize winner, stated:

“Man is literally made from the dust of the earth. . . . The staple foods may not contain the same nutritive substances as in former times. Mass production has modified the composition of wheat, eggs, milk, fruit, and butter, although these articles have retained their familiar appearance. Chemical fertilizers, by increasing the abundance of the crops without replacing all the exhausted elements in the soil, have indirectly contributed to changing the nutritive value of cereal grains and vegetables. Hens have been compelled, by artificial diet and mode of living, to enter the ranks of mass producers. Has not the quality of their eggs been modified?”—Man the Unknown.

Scientists today list over a hundred elements as being found on this earth. However, some of these are man-made. As many as sixty of the natural elements have been found in living things and some forty have been found in man.

Not included here for special consideration are the four major elements described as “having a molecular weight of 16 or less.”

Also these account for 96 percent of the body’s composition. They include oxygen, 65 percent; carbon, 18 percent; hydrogen, 10 percent; nitrogen, 3 percent. The fact that 75 percent of the body’s composition is oxygen and hydrogen would seem to show the need of daily drinking sufficient liquids.

I can provide more scientific evidence but none of these will matter to you because you don't accept them as facts. Proving again my point that any evidence presented in support of Creation are not accepted as facts because your faith in "organic evolution" has already closed your mind but then again who knows...

Next you said:

Gravity isn't nothing :

But can you see gravity? What's the other simple explanation for "invisible force" something you can't see? This is like teaching a 5th grader - sorry to say that but come on - where's your common sense - i mean logic. Oops i forgot you don't accept logic. Anyway a 5th grader will say "nothing".

To put it in the most simplest terms - the earth is hanging upon "nothing" solid - or as TEV puts it "empty space".


Next u said:

Then prove it! Show me unbiased, peer reviewed, objective evidence of a global flood"

I guess you'll have to wait for my next thread.

Of course I refuse to believe in something that's not backed up by evidence...it's called LOGIC

Like what said if something is not logical means - it's illogical. Something illogical presented as evidence is thrown out as evidence in any court of law. But I guess to you it doesn't matter how illogical the evidence is as long as you can call it "evidence". For example, logic dictates that that a law cannot exist without a (body of) lawmaker yet you will question this logic.

Also it's both scientific AND logically proven fact that "life can come only from life". Do you agree?

I'm not blaming god for anything, just like I don't blame unicorns, dragons, or elves for "ugly" stuff :

Now you're being silly like a 4th grader.

ty,
edmc2

reply to post by daskakik

Am I misunderstanding this or are you implying that truth is a popularity contest?

I'm just stating a fact - whether you believe it or not - up to you.

Sorry I don't see any twisting. You plainly said black matter was a fact and it backed up Isaiah 40:22. Yes you went on to add images of the milky way and other space shots but the sad thing is that none of them look like the black matter illustration and neither of them look like fine gauze. Heres some pics of fine gauze: Close ups Half way down the page. Plain view Also this quote from the wikipedia on Saturn
...
Not what I would call delicate at all although from a far Saturns rings would fit the description. Point being that Isaiah was probably just being poetic. Your just giving him to much credit if it's even really him that wrote it and if it really was what was written. Even with your scientific facts there's still a major need for faith.

Back to the dark matter - check out this link: www.mpa-garching.mpg.de...

Now how far is Saturn from earth again?

Earth is at its closest point to Saturn when the Sun, Earth and Saturn are all in a line. At this point, Earth and Saturn are separated by 1.2 billion km.

The two planets are at their most distant point when they’re lined up so it goes Earth, Sun, Saturn. At this point, Earth and Saturn are separated by up 1.67 billion km.

www.universetoday.com...

So are you saying that Isaiah was looking at Saturn with his naked eyes? That must be a super eyesight to be able to see Saturn at a distance of 1.2 billion km.

Or was he looking at say the "via latea" galaxy?

Below is a view of “Via Lactea” from earth:

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/8bdf9e589eab.jpg[/atsimg]

A closer look:

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/eae88c18a3bf.jpg[/atsimg]

Q: Do you think the prophet Isaiah was referring to something like this as “stretching out the heavens just as a fine gauze”? Or was he referring to clouds? Which one makes more sense?

I know you will not accept this evidence because your mind is already made up - and don't want to be proven in error.

But it's your logic.

Bottom line no matter how look at it the truth still remain that Biblical Creation is not only factual but accurate.

ty,
edmc2

reply to post by edmc^2

I understand that you were just stating the fact that christians are many. That still doesn't make their myths any more true.

I accept that clouds don't look like gauze. I'm just saying that your examples don't look like it either.

I'm not saying Isaiah was looking at Saturn with his naked eyes. I think he was just waxing poetic. Like saying a girls kiss tastes like wine when we (those that have kissed girls) know that they don't, unless she just took a swig.

I have already accepted that I was in error once in this thread. I have no problem with that. I just have a problem with accepting your "proven" facts as evidence when they are not facts, let alone proven.

reply to post by Faith2011


Your preaching is getting kinda annoying. You add ZERO content to the discussion, you're like a bible quote machine that blindly repeats whatever's in there...no rational thought, no logic, no objective evidence. We don't live in the middle ages anymore