Why major Americans are not interested in disscuusing Religion, Faith, And Theology

Originally posted by hmdphantom
reply to post by warbird03

 

may be it is a better question : why religion is not discussed in public as much as politics ?
I think that I made it more clear.

Why does it have to be ?

Religion is different things to different people, some have conviction towards one type of religion, another an entirely different conviction, and indeed there are those who have no religious conviction. There is no need for a national or global discussion on religion, all that would bring is contempt, and a narrowing of tollerance, for the person who declares Christianity to be the one truth, there will be another who declares
Catholocism to be the the one truth. Having said that its not that it is ever in the public eye, as it does spring up from time to time, but that there is no gain from doing so, we are all individuals and gravitate to understand what to us makes sense.

reply to post by Benevolent Heretic


And that would be your opinion? And how are you so sure the separation isn't the cause of all the corruption. We all know our government has close ties to the vatican (which is also corrupt)

My answer is no because now we have people running our country with no belief systems so they have no perception of right or wrong religion teaches right or wrong. This was a hot topic then and often goes overlooked. The consciousness of faith in politics is lost. They wanted to separate the two but they never thought about intelligently combining the two to work in harmony with each other.

Don't hang me for this but religion teaches reality and if there's no "religion" ( I decided to throw air quotes for it) in government then there's no reality in government, therefore government is creating an alter-reality.

Politics and religion in the United States
Robert N. Bellah has argued in his writings that although the separation of church and state is grounded firmly in the constitution of the United States, this does not mean that there is no religious dimension in the political society of the United States. He used the term Civil Religion to describe the specific relation between politics and religion in the United States. His 1967 article analyzes the inaugural speech of John F. Kennedy: "Considering the separation of church and state, how is a president justified in using the word 'God' at all? The answer is that the separation of church and state has not denied the political realm a religious dimension."[55]
Robert S. Wood has argued that the United States is a model for the world in terms of how a separation of church and state—no state-run or state-established church—is good for both the church and the state, allowing a variety of religions to flourish.[56] Speaking at the Toronto-based Center for New Religions, Wood said that the freedom of conscience and assembly allowed under such a system has led to a "remarkable religiosity" in the United States that isn't present in other industrialized nations.[56] Wood believes that the U.S. operates on "a sort of civic religion," which includes a generally-shared belief in a creator who "expects better of us." Beyond that, individuals are free to decide how they want to believe and fill in their own creeds and express their conscience. He calls this approach the "genius of religious sentiment in the United States."[56]

It was good for the time but now we need a combination of government and religion to support our goals which is freedom... and yea we're not free. try not to think of it as throwing more restrictions for us in government by religion. when you combine the two you have freedom. We only have 1/2 freedom. Also with the combination government and religion turn into something COMPLETELY different.

reply to post by Benevolent Heretic


you answered my question as you liked and thank you for replying. I like to see other points of view.

and what is the ' freedom of religion ' you have there ? I think every body wants to have freedom in choosing his\her religion. If I choose it by force I won't be faithful to that. I have let myself feel free to choose my religion. I think that there isn't force on choosing religion in any country otherwise it is not rational. I think when it is not religious it leads to have elites ruling over others and it leads the injustice based powers like TPTB grow.

Originally posted by mrjones7885
My answer is no because now we have people running our country with no belief systems so they have no perception of right or wrong religion teaches right or wrong.

Perhaps you learned what is right and wrong from your religion, but that is not the only way to know what is right and wrong. If you didn't have religion in your life, would you go around killing and raping people? No. You know it's not right. And not just because religion told you so.

Don't hang me for this but religion teaches reality

I'm not going to hang you, but I strongly disagree. Religion teaches many good things, but at least one of the main teachings of religion is fantasy.

Originally posted by hmdphantom
and what is the ' freedom of religion ' you have there ?

The First Amendment to our Constitution says:

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

In other words, Congress (our political body that makes our laws) cannot choose one religion over another or over the lack of religion. And it cannot make laws that keep people from practicing their religion. It keeps everyone free to believe as they wish without the government's intrusion.

reply to post by solargeddon


I think religion should explain about what it declares rationally or it is not accepted. I think that who ever that has let the human race have reasoning power is the one who will send it rational reasons to be guided. or otherwise it is not the creator. and it was not all knowing. I think that if the dominions are religious they can be controlled and scoped under the rules of this religion. most of the religions have a lot in common . it doesn't really matter what it is

this would help us get out of this situation. every thing is based on money . In $ we trust.

here is what TPTB is seeking : power. it has accomplished defining money as power. then it has the power.

reply to post by Benevolent Heretic

Religion teaches many good things, but at least one of the main teachings of religion is fantasy.

Which is why I put religion in air quotes... Most of it is fantasy I agree like the old man with the beard looking over us in the sky (and yet we still use the word god in government). I'm saying religion is the only good source of information we have about how to live and what our origins are. perhaps we should give government a consciousness is what I am saying... yet at the same time they have no power so that they do not abuse it because it's inevitable that power will always try to expand power. basically we as people need to stop shoveling off responsibility on other's shoulders.

Originally posted by mrjones7885
I'm saying religion is the only good source of information we have about how to live and what our origins are.

I beg to differ. I can't believe I'm reading that people are advocating religion in government. But you are certainly entitled to your opinion.

reply to post by Benevolent Heretic


I think you have some deep seated issues with religion maybe it's the word and the history involving religion? Religion is interpretable and so is reality. I'll substitute spirituality and maybe that will float your boat. If not well I tried.

Government should support everyone spiritually nothing else even the people who do bad. Our government discriminates between people who do wrong and those who do good and rightfully so but people who commit crimes are still people I don't think that they have the right to decide who deserves what. Laws and restrictions... It's all bullsh*t cause then they try to enforce those laws and restrictions and I believe nothing should be forced. Good things come naturally. The people have to want good for us to keep good in this world. It all comes down to not separating humans into different categories and interests and information and where they live and what political party they are part of. It's the source of the problem and the problem is that when they were told not to discriminate they tried but they didn't know how because they asked for a person's information in an effort to not discriminate and tried to diversify but they misrepresented freedom.

Me personally I don't care if your white or black as long as your human you have my love, my support, and my compassion. This is the "religion" I speak of because this is my interpretation of it all.

reply to post by hmdphantom


If TPTB were to utilise religion, it would not make for a pretty world, your belief is that politcal leaders should be governed by religion thats great, but as some one who does not support religion it would be unjust for my world to be shaped with religious undertones by TPTB, when I do not accept religion as an ideology, you cannot compromise somebody's free will, I like to think I have a working knowledge of what is right and what is wrong, but I do not need religion to shape it.

If the Prime minister of England were to make a speech about tackling the cause of crime, and it involved religion I would have a big issue with that. Religion for a lot of people is great guide to aid them through life, and they gain strength form it, but on mass, it would become a form of control, and psychologically I don't think it would ever be accepted, I for one certainly won't.

I do agree that capitalism isn't great, but then someone show me the alternative.

Originally posted by hmdphantom
reply to post by Akragon

 

so you think being religious and being fanatic are the same. can't we use our intellect to reason and understand ?
is that true?

no theres a difference, but you just can't discuss politics and religion in the same conversation.

Politics and religion co-evolved.
It's almost redundant to talk about them both.
But since they have diverged in many places, it can be done without feeling line you are repeating yourself.
Religion was a BRILLIANT political move though. Don't have to reelect a new leader all the time.
Or you can just say it's a bloodline thing. Keep a holy family around.

and still you get to control millions of thought patterns...make that Billions..

I think it's because the state religion, atheism, would prefer that Americans be completely ignorant of any competitors. This is especially true of the Christian religion, upon which this country was founded. As is their pattern on any country they take over, Marxists seek to redefine history and deconstruct the past. They force an interpretation of the past wherein any thought not supportive of the revolution (ie the elites control on power), must be cast as evil. The christian religion is therefore a primary target.

More deeply however, the satanic forces behind the Marxists that run the US, are especially fearful of the christian religion since it is the only force for good, among men that can challenge their power. Fortunately for them they have a critical mass of useful idiots in America that jump like puppets to defend the elites global NWO group think. Unfortunately for them judgment day is nearly at hand, when their power will be broken and their deeds exposed.

reply to post by spacedoubt


the most funny thing I have already understood is that :

In your country people believe that there is TPTB and they don't believe that a self based control can not help.

In my country people believe that there is no TPTB and they believe that a self based control can help.

I made this thread because I thought that we can find a way to stop TPTB by the mean of religion.may be there is some freedom in choosing religion IN most of the countries , but if TPTB accomplish her mission it wouldn't be the same . as you can see they have worked on us already . they have learned the majority of our nations ' how to get information '. ' hoe to let themselves be treated like fools '. as the time passes it is getting worse.

As I got more information about how the major American people were like in the last 30 years and how they are today , I understood that TPTB has almost accomplished the mission in changing what people believe and what they pursue. not to mention that I have noticed that Iranian culture and belief has changed already in majority. there are few people who believe that there is TPTB. they are going to act like sheep as they move forward.

PS : I believe that belief is not a complicated thing . it is very simple : how you are acting right now is what you believe right now. and even you are not acting you believe that it is not necessary to act.

may be it is none of my business because I am not a prophet and I am not perfect my self , but wait , it is. it is why I am here on ATS.

reply to post by SevenThunders


I think I agree in the most of the things you mentioned based on the facts that I have gathered.

may be it is because you have analyzed yourself about how the USG is acting and how the people are acting interactively. what you wrote shows a conclusion you have made. can you tell how did you conclude this ?


thank you for your reply.

reply to post by mrjones7885


Give this man a raise! If you seriously can not see that religion is just a tool to keep you people slaves, then i'm glad to say I will be honored to see you religious people suffer from the galactic war next year. Religious texts from every race traces back to one source.