Presenting the First Chinese Aircraft Carrier

Originally posted by Dimitri Dzengalshlevi

Originally posted by CanadianDream420
One Tomahawk missile... Goodbye.

I didn't know that Tomahawks could be used as anti-ship missiles

You didn't? Well, you know now.

RGM/UGM-109B Tomahawk Anti Ship Missile (TASM) - radar guided anti-shipping variant

They aren't often used as ASM's because they are overkill for frigates and destroyers. Against capitol ships.... that might be a different story.

Nice. The "Varyag". So, this is like the Chinese are parking a caddy in the driveway right? Like having a carrier is going to make a big difference for the Chinese navy. Looks nice though, it's big and scary right? Is that the whole point? what exactly do they plan to do with it, or is it gonna be sold again to someone else like fixing up an old chevy nova?

The Russians built that carrier and sold it to the Chinese. It look's like your typical made in China crap with a service life of 6 weeks.

Sorry I see someone has already pointed this out.

Originally posted by CosmosKid
Nice. The "Varyag". So, this is like the Chinese are parking a caddy in the driveway right? Like having a carrier is going to make a big difference for the Chinese navy. Looks nice though, it's big and scary right? Is that the whole point? what exactly do they plan to do with it, or is it gonna be sold again to someone else like fixing up an old chevy nova?

It gives them teh opportunity to practice carrier tactics, and anti-carrier tactics. To establish a core of carrier-experienced pilots & crew from which to expand.

IMO it's going to have pretty much exactly the same role as the USS Langley (CV-1) had in the USN in the 1920's - establishing the base of experience for the later expansion of the USN carrier arm.

Only the chinese are also going to be able to look at the history books to help their learning curve - something the USN & RN didn't have in the 1920's & 30's.

Suer it's not going to change teh balance of power much for the next 10 years - but the chinese have a much longer view than "the west", and I reckon 30 years from now it will have been a very important ship.

Originally posted by neo96
if its like everything else the chinese make i am not worried.

cheap mass produced total crap.

Dat dere t-34 during WWII was arguably the most successful tank of the war because of the sheer mass production of it and it's revolutionary design.

Yet I'd still rather be in a King Tiger than one of those pieces of trash.

Originally posted by centurion1211
Yeah, well so far everyone has ignored this key paragraph from the article:

Carrier operations are not something that’s easy to do, it’s going to take a very long time for the Chinese to be able to work through the various technicalities of this. It’s also not something they’re going to be able to learn from other people. The Russians haven’t done carrier operations a very long time and United States is certainly not going to be training them...

Yeah, probably because it has BS information.

Admiral Kuznetsov (looks pretty damn operational to me)


Oh, and it's also loaded with Su-33s- considering their highest navalized competition is probably the F-18E/F, I would say that the Su-33 is probably the top navalized fighter out there.

Russia is also planning to build up to three new carriers over the next two decades. They are planned to be loaded with MiG-29Ks, Su-33s, and T-50s (navalized).

Why doesn't Russia operate a bunch of carrier fleets right now? Because for one, it's really expensive. Secondly, they aren't out to push dominance over the globe. And third, because they would rather develop advanced anti-carrier missiles which would balance out the combat theater much more effectively than with CBG vs CBG warfare.

Remember, the entire point of a CBG is combat projection. You build a carrier because you intend to use it to deploy aircraft anywhere you want. US operates many CBGs because they want to fight the world; Russia has a CBG because it has a huge border on the sea (hence "Northern Fleet"); China wants a carrier so it can expand.

sonofliberty1776-
You didn't? Well, you know now.

RGM/UGM-109B Tomahawk Anti Ship Missile (TASM) - radar guided anti-shipping variant

They aren't often used as ASM's because they are overkill for frigates and destroyers. Against capitol ships.... that might be a different story.

Maybe I should've specified anti-carrier missile

But it appears that you are right about an anti-ship Tomahawk variant.

This thing is made in China.

It will break in 13 months (right after the warranty expires on it!)

Tomahawks can easily be mowed down by a CIWS. The SN-22 Moshkit is the US carrier killer. It is much much faster than the tomahawk and performs evasive and confusing maneuvers at the last stages of its attack as it rips through a US carrier and shreds it to pieces rendering all flight ops useless.

U.S. aircraft carriers, by nature, are expendable. If another country wants to take a shot a sinking one, then your talking one hell of a shooting match going on. SS-N-22? great, fine. A tactical nuke is much better idea and odds are that will neutralize, but not sink a carrier, too much compartmentization. Anyway, until it happens we'll never know since the only way to sink a carrier is to do it! If that kinda war starts out again, then who cares right? It's not going to go well for anyone involved in that kinda throw down!

I think it's time for Japan to start building a modern militarty.

actually I find this whole OP rather amusing.

Just wait a couple more months and after Soros
collapses the US and sells it's assets, China
will inherit American Carriers.

thank you George /sarcasm/

A nation that doesn't show off it's toys are the ones to watch out for.

Weapon Systems and Technologys that are openly displayed throughout the world today are already dead tech. Believe it.

reply to post by Anonymous Avatar


She certainly looks the part and if China can pump out more of these puppies with J20 aircraft (or variants) this could be a significant turning of the tide. China is exceptional at back-engineering, (they've done almost every product I have worked on): but can roughly stamped numbers truly outway quality?

The proof is in the pudding; in my experience the Chinese are extremely vigorous in their approach to manufacturing however lack adherance to international (or any) engineering standards.

This is a definitive milestone and should not be underestimated. Time will tell I guess...

reply to post by Anonymous Avatar


Have a look at their workmanship on other goods they produce hahahahahaha! Not saying it won't work but it will be poorly made imitation of the real deal without doubt. There is enough of their manufacturing prowess on the board to justify the statement. Ever tried to play a Chinese guitar? vastly inferior to the USA model but it still works. Ever driver a Chinese "Great Wall" car? you will know what I'm talking about..... inferior to the Japanese vehicle they are copying! Chinese workmanship = garbage and this will be no exception. It will work but ...... If you can, avoid all Chinese products! As far as Asian workmanship goes South Korea and Japan are the guns! Very superior in all ways to Chinese junk!

This was posted long ago. Are you kidding , the chinese landing on an aircraft carrier. It's just a target to waste a missle on.

the chinese bought this from russia with a fake travel company with intentions to turn the carrier into a floating tourist casino. well that was all a lie.

the amount of $ and effort it took to get that thing to china is insane.

all of that to refurb an ancient cold war era carrier when they could have just engineered their own.

they even built a full scale model of it on land to do training exercises.

reply to post by dirtycrickrat


Would 50 off these be of any sigificance?

Originally posted by dirtycrickrat
all of that to refurb an ancient cold war era carrier when they could have just engineered their own.

they even built a full scale model of it on land to do training exercises.

When the following image first broke that was the speculation. I even fell for it however later images and press release stories confirmed it was just a tourists attraction of a Nimitz class carrier mock-up not a training facility. It was an interesting choice of design though.

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/38b7e6d99572.jpg[/atsimg]

Edit: Just saw that Aloysius already said just about everything i said here so bit of a dud post on my part...

Originally posted by Dimitri Dzengalshlevi
reply to post by Jinglelord

 

The point is, that now China has carrier flight training facilities and will soon have operational experience with a carrier. They already have other carrier projects planned out.

And so what if it's an old Soviet carrier? Its not going to be deploying old aircraft.

Yes well Dimitri you are speaking to people who think that what makes the USN impressive is the fact that it posseses 12 aircraft carriers when that is largely a function of their economy. What is impressive is the fact that the USN can keep so many aircraft carriers operationally deployed with personal experienced or well enough trained to keep flight deck operations from being far more frequently lethal to many! Even if we handed the Chinese 10 aircraft carriers today it would take them decades to develop the infrastructure and personal core to operate them in such a way that they could become a serous rival to US naval power in the area...

You really need to start with one or two carriers and using a carrier that has proven itself ( ex soviet) is not only the safe way to do it but the way in which you can gain all their operational experience!

The fact that you may need to explain to many on this board that they will be flying modern aircraft off it's decks merely means that weapons discussion on this forum is at a very basic level.

Oh well!

Stellar

Originally posted by SLAYER69

Originally posted by dirtycrickrat
all of that to refurb an ancient cold war era carrier when they could have just engineered their own.

they even built a full scale model of it on land to do training exercises.

When the following image first broke that was the speculation. I even fell for it however later images and press release stories confirmed it was just a tourists attraction of a Nimitz class carrier mock-up not a training facility. It was an interesting choice of design though.

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/38b7e6d99572.jpg[/atsimg]

links to the press releases?
is there a website for this tourist place?

i dont buy it personally. im almost positive that thing sitting in that puddle is for training.