Presenting the First Chinese Aircraft Carrier

if its like everything else the chinese make i am not worried.

cheap mass produced total crap.

reply to post by DaMod


I imagine they'll train them like everyone else does - by training them.

the carrier type is already operated by the Russians, so there's operational & performance data available from them.

Originally posted by neo96
if its like everything else the chinese make i am not worried.

cheap mass produced total crap.

Except it's not mass produced, and it's mostly russian made......

But hey, don't let anything resembling a fact enter your ehad and you'll do jsut fine

god there's some stupid commnents on here - like that one "So no-one except the Americans is allowed a cazrrier" ??

Currnet carrier owners appart from teh USA & PRC - Brits, French, Russians, Spanish, Brazilians, Italians & Indians have them - even Thailand has one that was featured rescuing tourists after heavy rains and floods just within the last week or 2.

Other nations that have had them in the past include Australia, Argentina, Canada & Japan (who's building a helicopter carrier). Germany too if you want to count the Graf Zeppelin from WW2 which didn't get operations.

reply to post by Aloysius the Gaul


hey trying reading my post agian did it not start with an if?

stupid comments like trying to turn a thread into about a poster instead of the topic.


heres a thought how about china come up with an original thought instead of ripping everyone else off.

Originally posted by neo96
reply to post by Aloysius the Gaul

 

hey trying reading my post agian did it not start with an if?

Try reading the thread - there was alreayd plenty of information about its origins.

by starting with "if" you just show you don't know what you aer posting about.

heres a thought how about china come up with an original thought instead of ripping everyone else off.

Like gunpowder? Paper? Printing? Forks? Lacquer? Oars? Cultivation of rice? Use of salt? Silk? Banknotes? Blast furnace? Internal bulkheads in ships? using coke as fuel?

Here's an idea - stop thinkingthat your preconceived sterotypes are actually useful for anything!

Originally posted by Aloysius the Gaul

Originally posted by neo96
reply to post by Aloysius the Gaul

 

hey trying reading my post agian did it not start with an if?

Try reading the thread - there was alreayd plenty of information about its origins.

by starting with "if" you just show you don't know what you aer posting about.

heres a thought how about china come up with an original thought instead of ripping everyone else off.

Like gunpowder? Paper? Printing? Forks? Lacquer? Oars? Cultivation of rice? Use of salt? Silk? Banknotes? Blast furnace? Internal bulkheads in ships? using coke as fuel?

Here's an idea - stop thinkingthat your preconceived sterotypes are actually useful for anything!

Yeah, well so far everyone has ignored this key paragraph from the article:

Carrier operations are not something that’s easy to do, it’s going to take a very long time for the Chinese to be able to work through the various technicalities of this. It’s also not something they’re going to be able to learn from other people. The Russians haven’t done carrier operations a very long time and United States is certainly not going to be training them. So this is going to be years before the Chinese really have the coordination to be able to move large carrier battle groups anywhere. And that assumes also that China builds more carriers. A single carrier gives you almost no capability. It’s got to be in port, it’s got to be in for refit, it can only go to one location. Until they have about three carriers, they really don’t even have the opportunity to maintain a single carrier on station at any given point in time.

So basically, should we worry about this for the foreseeable future? Answer: Yawn ...

I smell American fear.
Do you guys honestly think they would just refurbish old soviet machinery?
Give me a break

Originally posted by itsmeug
I smell American fear.
Do you guys honestly think they would just refurbish old soviet machinery?
Give me a break

Yes.

Since the chinese have done it many times before. That doesn't count licensing russian military technology to build it themselves, or taking something apart to reverse engineer it.

Still, for the most part, we are NOT seeing much if any chinese original thinking on any of this. Going further, check out how much a chinese space capsule looks like a russian soyuz ...

why always u north americans so arrogant?

reply to post by elpistolero1


arrogance is not a trait unique only to americans

Originally posted by neo96
reply to post by Aloysius the Gaul

 

hey trying reading my post agian did it not start with an if?

stupid comments like trying to turn a thread into about a poster instead of the topic.


heres a thought how about china come up with an original thought instead of ripping everyone else off.

If that is the case then you should recognize that America ripped off the use of gun powder, missiles, printing, plumbing, metallurgy, - well basically EVERYTHING from the chinese who have one of the oldest civilizations on earth - and contributed more technical discoveries to bring humanity out of the dark ages than pretty much any civilizations on earth.

It would also be well worth your while to understand that the chinese did not arrive on the scene yesterday - in fact their space programme is more inline with the Russians than the US of A - in other words most of their achievements PREDATE AMERICAS. Since America achieved everything technically in space by copying the Russians - communists who were working with the Chinese - oops. Looks like the US basically copied the chinese.

Finally it may well be worth your time to understand the evolution of aircraft carrier warfare - carriers are dseigned specifically as a projection of power. A PROJECTION. The USSR has always been miles ahead of the US in engine and rocket development, hence while the US spent BILLIONS developing carriers - the russians simply built indefensible anti-aircraft carrier missiles, a philosophy similar to the Chinese who have developed the worlds most powerful anti- aircraft carrier missile. Something the US don't have.
This was part of the Chinese defense program which also saw them develop land based anti- satellite technology allowing them to knock out any satellite at any time- some thing which was demonstrated several years ago with great effect. The US were so far behind in this tech it took them almost a year to accomplish anything even remotely capable of replicating the achievement. And even then - was no where NEAR as sophisticated.

What you CLEARLY are not grasping about warfare is the counter balance which is required and therefore leads to different directions in evolution - mountain, urban, space, projection, defensive etc all these lead to differing directions in evolution.

The Russians, Chinese all considered a projection of power a strain on resources and a waste - especially when carriers could be taken out for a tiny fraction of the cost with a single missile.They thought they were stupid and hence did not develop them. They are not some incredible achievement - look at the history of carriers - Japan had them first.

China does not want them to do the things the US does - they want them to protect their regional waters and coastal operations in Bengal, Pakistan, Africa etc.

Originally posted by elpistolero1
why always u north americans so arrogant?

First, tell us where you are from and then we can discuss the relative contributions, to science, technology, art, whatever. Better yet, start your own thread on that subject.

Just throwing insults accomplishes nothing.

reply to post by DaMod


They have enough people for trial and error.

reply to post by elpistolero1


Because even with a stretched thin military we could still out do anyone in a war.

Originally posted by Aristophrenia

It would also be well worth your while to understand that the chinese did not arrive on the scene yesterday - in fact their space programme is more inline with the Russians than the US of A - in other words most of their achievements PREDATE AMERICAS. Since America achieved everything technically in space by copying the Russians - communists who were working with the Chinese - oops. Looks like the US basically copied the chinese.

There is not one iota of fact in this paragraph. The russians my have launched the first satellite and orbited the first human, but then the U.S. decided the space race was serious business and went roaring past the russians to the moon, mars, outer planets and even the edge of the solar system - and never looked back.

The closest thing to a fact in your statement is that the chinese have (also) copied the russian soyuz spacecraft, which is itself basically a relic.

Originally posted by centurion1211
Yeah, well so far everyone has ignored this key paragraph from the article:

Carrier operations are not something that’s easy to do, it’s going to take a very long time for the Chinese to be able to work through the various technicalities of this. It’s also not something they’re going to be able to learn from other people. The Russians haven’t done carrier operations a very long time and United States is certainly not going to be training them. So this is going to be years before the Chinese really have the coordination to be able to move large carrier battle groups anywhere. And that assumes also that China builds more carriers. A single carrier gives you almost no capability. It’s got to be in port, it’s got to be in for refit, it can only go to one location. Until they have about three carriers, they really don’t even have the opportunity to maintain a single carrier on station at any given point in time.

So basically, should we worry about this for the foreseeable future? Answer: Yawn ...

no I don't think most ppl ignored it - for anyone with a smidgen of understanding it is an obvious aspect.

this is China's 1st carrier - they will be doing an awful lot of evaluating, testing, figuring out tactics, getting their a/c to work properly on it, using it to train their flet in anti-carrier ops, etc.

But I think the idea that the Chinese won't have anything "useful" in hte foreseeable future is unsupportable.

The Chinese definitely want to be able to challengehte USN on the high seas - which means having somethgin to dal with US carriers.

Whether it is carriers of their own or not will be an important decision for them - but if they do then I can forsee a programme of large carrier building being obvious within 10-20 years.

Originally posted by Aristophrenia
Since America achieved everything technically in space by copying the Russians

well that's just rubbish.

they copied the Germans.

Originally posted by Aloysius the Gaul

Originally posted by Aristophrenia
Since America achieved everything technically in space by copying the Russians

well that's just rubbish.

they copied the Germans.

So did the russians.

From the results of the 2 space programs, looks like the U.S. must have typed their notes, while the russians just scribbled down theirs "longhand".

Originally posted by neo96
if its like everything else the chinese make i am not worried.

cheap mass produced total crap.

BINGO!!!!! CORRECT!!!

And it wont need a Tomahawk missile (like posted previously) to sink it... as its made in China and will soon enough sink ITSELF without any help from anything else

Sorry but anything that I have EVER used that was made in China wasnt worth even a 90% percent reduction in price from a USA made product. Total CRAP products and you couldnt pay me to be aboard a Chinese made ship out on the high seas. NOPE!!!!!

NOPE!!!!!

Originally posted by Aloysius the Gaul
reply to post by Xcathdra

 

They have bought 3 ex-soviet carriers - 2 of them were old Kiev class - en.wikipedia.org... - both are now tourist attractions.

India bought a 3rd.

Having a ski ramp does not limit you to "low performance" aircraft - the Chinese J-15 appears to be a lower performance clone of the Su-33. The Su-33 can't take off at max weight with teh ski-jump, but you can bet that there's some effort going into fixing that shortcoming.

J-15 - en.wikipedia.org...

Su-33 - en.wikipedia.org...

Good, now that the Chinese have an aircraft carrier maybe they can send it off to Libya.

On the subject of Su-33, check out this video:

If you come in too fast, no worry, just step on the gas and try again.