The Real Scientific proof of GOD

reply to post by HispanicPanic


You do realize that you're just preaching now, right? How about providing some real evidence for a change?

wow....so much for denying ignorance. thats all you people want is proof this and proof that. so much for "faith"

oh and if you want proof...follow the words of jesus. it all lies within. its just a matter of how bad you want it. the answer awaits directly in front of you and when you finally realize it, your going to facepalm yourself on an epic level. i honestly cannot believe that i had been so ignorant for so many years. and its not till it makes perfect sense to you until you can understand it. nobody else can tell you about YOURSELF. you want to know where YOU came from...start searching. and if you dont know how..theres plenty of tips on the internet..i mean, thats where you learned it all from in the beginning right?

reply to post by HispanicPanic

wow....so much for denying ignorance. thats all you people want is proof this and proof that. so much for "faith"

If this makes you so mad, why post in a thread with the title "The Real Scientific proof of GOD"

Look, if you can't provide scientific proof, you don't add anything worthy to the discussion. It's you who's showing great ignorance by being so close minded, that you state a conclusion without ever providing any objective proof.

But maybe you can provide proof...so let's see about the rest

oh and if you want proof...follow the words of jesus. it all lies within. its just a matter of how bad you want it. the answer awaits directly in front of you and when you finally realize it, your going to facepalm yourself on an epic level. i honestly cannot believe that i had been so ignorant for so many years. and its not till it makes perfect sense to you until you can understand it. nobody else can tell you about YOURSELF. you want to know where YOU came from...start searching. and if you dont know how..theres plenty of tips on the internet..i mean, thats where you learned it all from in the beginning right?

Nope, clearly, you don't have the slightest clue about what scientific proof is

All you're doing is preaching, which is kind of laughable in a thread asking for "real scientific proof"

reply to post by HispanicPanic

Originally posted by HispanicPanic
WELL NOW! THERE YOU GO! NOW that we know it goes BOTH ways...said argument is over.

/thread. next....

...what goes both ways? You're right, this thread should be over as there is no scientific proof of any deity.

OR you can just keep arguing the same pointless crap you all have been since this site started lol...which is getting you people nowhere.

Actually, I know of quite a few people who have changed their minds over some issues due to the conversations on this forum.

but in relation to MY argument, i just stated common sense

Common sense? I don't give a flying fornication about such a useless set of biases.

. you people think its soooo complex...when its actually very very simple.

The universe is complex, that's undeniable. To say that anything about the universe is simple is to deny everything humanity has learned about it.

THE SOURCE, exists. thats it...

Please, provide evidence of it and define what this 'source' is.

why keep questioning it when its just there.

I see no evidence to point to some 'source' being there.

nothing you can do about it..its here all around us. yet people want to keep arguing? ya..typical humans.. your not going to find out until you die...

Ugh...that's the most arrogant line a believer in any idea can say as it combines absolute certainty with special pleading.

read sig please. k have a nice day.

Wow, pseudo-philosophical crap that's a rephrasing of something others have put better. So deep.

reply to post by HispanicPanic

Originally posted by HispanicPanic
wow....so much for denying ignorance. thats all you people want is proof this and proof that. so much for "faith"

...you act like faith is a good thing. We deny ignorance, thus we must deny faith as faith is the highest form of ignorance. It's being ignorant and yet being absolutely certain in your claim.

Now, let's count down the list of "Things I've heard way too many times since becoming an atheist"

oh and if you want proof...follow the words of jesus. it all lies within.

I tried doing that for the majority of my life, didn't get me a single shred of proof. I even bothered reading the Bible and that merely separated me from my faith more and more.

its just a matter of how bad you want it.

I don't want to believe. I also don't want to disbelieve. I just want my beliefs and lacks of belief to conform with the evidence.

the answer awaits directly in front of you and when you finally realize it, your going to facepalm yourself on an epic level.

Ok, just show it to me if it's just right there. Or are you going to make more empty statements. I want content, not preaching.

i honestly cannot believe that i had been so ignorant for so many years. and its not till it makes perfect sense to you until you can understand it.

Wooooo special pleading!

nobody else can tell you about YOURSELF. you want to know where YOU came from...start searching.

I came from my mother's uterus.

What I want to know is what you believe, why you believe it, and where the evidence is to support it.

reply to post by THE_PROFESSIONAL


Why do the believers in God say that we can’t comprehend God or where God came from? They Debate with the following that god is (not confined by the laws of physics, is omnipresent, is Omnipotent. Is Omniscient, can heal, can walk on water, He just always was. But none of this can be true why because we can’t comprehend what God is. So how can any of the above be true without some comprehension LOL.
The real problem with believers of gods is they can’t comprehend how life, earth and space came into being without an God, and no matter what facts science proves, no matter what logic says, no matter what physics law are, they can’t accept the reality of it. The believers in a god will always take god to a higher bazaar level that is beyond humans no matter what facts we know.
This discussion is about insanity we discuss the same things over and over and except a different answer from each other.

i dont beleive in god myself but if he does exist (and its a big if) then can i ask the christian audiance a question.

if we are all the children of god, then why was jesus sooo important ?????

answers on a postcard lol

Originally posted by kaleshchand

Definition of God
Lets face it, we cant prove/disprove something that has an unlimited number of definitions. So for this thread God will be defined by "generally accepted" qualities of God. So what are the qualities of God?

1. God has no beginning or end. (i.e. God was never "born" and can never die)
   
2. God is everywhere.
   
3. God is all powerful.
   
4. God is all knowing.
   

So we are looking for "someone" or "something" with those qualities.

Firstly, is that the sum of what comprises God?
Secondly, can we then accept that the entirety of the universe is Allah? Or is it jesus? Or is it Zeus? ...which god are we presuming this is?

reply to post by kaleshchand


The problem is you cannot define God with what you see and perceive by your body. Your body is made of matter which also makes up earth and star. You are alive (have a soul) while earth and star are not.

The simple answer is (as per Veda) that universe is not God. Universe is made of matter which is non-alive.

There are two more entities in this puzzle:

Soul: souls are countless but limited in number. soul is invisible to eyes becuse it is made of what Veda calls subtle matter. Any object made of gross matter cannot perceive subtle matter.

God: God is in the universe (brahmand) and outside it also. God is different from both gross matter and subtle matter. God is called formless (as opposed to body that has a definite form, or earth, star etc. that also have a definite form). God's power (or energy) pervades this universe. He sees without eyes. He hears without ears. So it is very difficult to understaand God in material terms.

I can help you understand Vedic philosophy if you are interested. Thanks.

The farther man advances in the study of the mysteries around him, the greater should be his admiration of the power and wisdom of the Creator. But, partly through pride, partly through weakness, his intellect itself often renders him the sport of illusion. He heaps systems upon systems; and every day shows him how many errors he has mistaken for truths, how many truths he has repelled as errors. Ail this should be a lesson for his pride.


The inferiority of the human faculties renders it impossible for man to comprehend the essential nature of God. In the infancy of the race, man often confounds the Creator with the creature, and attributes to the former the imperfections of the latter. But, in proportion as his moral sense becomes developed, man's thought penetrates more deeply into the nature of things, and he is able to form to himself a juster and more rational idea of the Divine Being, although his idea of that Being must always be imperfect and incomplete.

We judge of the power of an intelligence by its works as no human being could create that which is produced by nature, it is evident that the first cause must be an Intelligence superior to man. Whatever may be the prodigies accomplished by human intelligence, that intelligence itself must have a cause and the greater the results achieved by it, the greater must be the cause of which it is the effect. It is this Supreme Intelligence that is the first cause of all things, whatever the name by which mankind may designate it.

Link

reply to post by Shadow Herder


Nice thoughts.

We need to believe that many civilizations came before us who advanced in science but still could not survive.

God has made man, and also made laws by which the man should live.

Man often forgets God's laws, and makes his own. Man's laws are often in violation of nature's balance, which inevitably leads to imbalance in society and imbalance in nature leading to man-made and natural disasters.

Veda counts three types of mis-fortunes - Daihic, Devic, Bhautic.

Daihic - bodily injury, disease etc which causes bodily pain, and even untimely death
Devic - Natural calamities like earthquake, tornadoes, flood etc.
Bhautic - Destruction of property and loss of lives in war, strife, etc.

The misfortunes are caused by man's own actions which are against God's laws and against balance of nature. Some affect only an individual, while some affect many to entire nations.

The ideal society is where God's law is supreme, and man lives in harmony with nature. There are no misfortunes in such a society.

I think the best scientific proof of God is 'death'. Death is irrefutable evidence of power of God. Even the mightiest kings and the richest men are unable to avoid death. A king, who commanded a million man, lies on the ground, unable to command even a single man when God's hand strikes. What other proof does one need.

reply to post by vedatruth


I believe if something can be shown, to have been created, then that logically points to a Creator.
I believe we can show that light is a creation.

Originally posted by randyvs
reply to post by vedatruth

 

I believe if something can be shown, to have been created, then that logically points to a Creator.
I believe we can show that light is a creation.

How does light prove a creator?

reply to post by kaleshchand


Back when I was still a theist I used a similar argument to this though admittedly not as well laid out as you've done it here. One issue with this is that our more recent journeys into quantum physics keep overturning long held ideas in science.

This is similar to saying God is Love, it's taking something we already have a name for and re-defining it as God, if it grants you some personal comfort that's fine but its just not convincing to me anymore. I think the Universe is perfectly awe inspiring without it also being God and defining it as God really serves no function and doesn't give us any better understanding.

You're on the right track at least though meaning unlike many theists you're actually thinking about this subject and trying to work out the logic

Originally posted by randyvs
reply to post by vedatruth

 

I believe if something can be shown, to have been created, then that logically points to a Creator.
I believe we can show that light is a creation.

We don't even know everything about light, let alone if there's any sort of intelligence involved.

So far, throughout this entire thread, people make outrageous claims but not one has provided proof...which is kinda ironic given that's the title of the thread.

Fact is, people are stating a BELIEF while pretending it's FACT...but in order to be a fact, it would require objective evidence, which simply hasn't been provided. Not surprising though given that there's ZERO objective evidence hinting at a creator.

And you can't say just because something looks created a creator is necessary. Take mountains for example, they look created...but we KNOW how they are created, and not intelligence is required. We also know how humans evolved, and again, no intelligence involved.

Originally posted by sirnex

Originally posted by randyvs
reply to post by vedatruth

 

I believe if something can be shown, to have been created, then that logically points to a Creator.
I believe we can show that light is a creation.

How does light prove a creator?

Salutations Sirnex. Looking at the above, it seems odd to see the answer before the question. Well anyway, what would it mean to you if light could be shown to be a creation ?

X
This question is for you to X.
What would it mean to you if ( I'll admit the big if here ) light could be shown to be a creation?

reply to post by randyvs


If there's proof that something with intelligence created light I would accept it...not necessarily worship it, but accept its existence. The thing that troubles me, and you partly agree by saying "big if", is when people come in a thread called "scientific proof of..." and then don't post anything even remotely resembling scientific proof. Or even worse, they act all angry and dismissive towards scientific proof. I mean, why create a thread claiming to have scientific proof and then have pages upon pages of nothing resembling scientific proof?

For me, that's a clear sign that a lot of people mistake blind belief for scientifically backed up proof. And that's kinda scary, because no matter which religion, it allows people to just make up whatever they feel like. Some of it will be good, but some of it is just bat# crazy (like the 6k year old earth stuff) and can even lead to horrible stuff like genocide.

My main field of experience is economics and real estate, and I always try to stay as objective as possible because it nets the best results. I don't buy into some random commentator on CNBC, I just analyze the figures and make up my own mind. And I think when it comes to other stuff and human progress in general, we're so much better off going with objective evidence rather than blind belief. That doesn't mean people can't have their beliefs, but they really shouldn't mistake them for facts...because they aren't.

Originally posted by MrXYZ
reply to post by randyvs

 

If there's proof that something with intelligence created light I would accept it...not necessarily worship it, but accept its existence. The thing that troubles me, and you partly agree by saying "big if", is when people come in a thread called "scientific proof of..." and then don't post anything even remotely resembling scientific proof. Or even worse, they act all angry and dismissive towards scientific proof. I mean, why create a thread claiming to have scientific proof and then have pages upon pages of nothing resembling scientific proof?

For me, that's a clear sign that a lot of people mistake blind belief for scientifically backed up proof. And that's kinda scary, because no matter which religion, it allows people to just make up whatever they feel like. Some of it will be good, but some of it is just bat# crazy (like the 6k year old earth stuff) and can even lead to horrible stuff like genocide.

My main field of experience is economics and real estate, and I always try to stay as objective as possible because it nets the best results. I don't buy into some random commentator on CNBC, I just analyze the figures and make up my own mind. And I think when it comes to other stuff and human progress in general, we're so much better off going with objective evidence rather than blind belief. That doesn't mean people can't have their beliefs, but they really shouldn't mistake them for facts...because they aren't.

Well Thank you for answering.
I think that's the most informative thing about you, I've ever read from you and I gotta say, I'm a bit astonished at where that came from ? Yes you're right I do agree with your take on this thread. I don't really understand it, which is why I chose my own direction to postulate the question.

reply to post by randyvs


There's a good quote by Bill Maher, and although he takes it a bit far by not pointing out any good effects of religion (peace of mind, mental support, etc.), he makes a ton of great points:

The irony of religion is that because of its power to divert man to destructive courses, the world could actually come to an end. The plain fact is, religion must die for mankind to live. The hour is getting very late to be able to indulge in having in key decisions made by religious people. By irrationalists, by those who would steer the ship of state not by a compass, but by the equivalent of reading the entrails of a chicken. George Bush prayed a lot about Iraq, but he didn't learn a lot about it. Faith means making a virtue out of not thinking. It's nothing to brag about. And those who preach faith, and enable and elevate it are intellectual slaveholders, keeping mankind in a bondage to fantasy and nonsense that has spawned and justified so much lunacy and destruction. Religion is dangerous because it allows human beings who don't have all the answers to think that they do. Most people would think it's wonderful when someone says, "I'm willing, Lord! I'll do whatever you want me to do!" Except that since there are no gods actually talking to us, that void is filled in by people with their own corruptions and limitations and agendas. And anyone who tells you they know, they just know what happens when you die, I promise you, you don't. How can I be so sure? Because I don't know, and you do not possess mental powers that I do not. The only appropriate attitude for man to have about the big questions is not the arrogant certitude that is the hallmark of religion, but doubt. Doubt is humble, and that's what man needs to be, considering that human history is just a litany of getting # dead wrong. This is why rational people, anti-religionists, must end their timidity and come out of the closet and assert themselves. And those who consider themselves only moderately religious really need to look in the mirror and realize that the solace and comfort that religion brings you actually comes at a terrible price. If you belonged to a political party or a social club that was tied to as much bigotry, misogyny, homophobia, violence, and sheer ignorance as religion is, you'd resign in protest. To do otherwise is to be an enabler, a mafia wife, for the true devils of extremism that draw their legitimacy from the billions of their fellow travelers. If the world does come to an end here, or wherever, or if it limps into the future, decimated by the effects of religion-inspired nuclear terrorism, let's remember what the real problem was that we learned how to precipitate mass death before we got past the neurological disorder of wishing for it. That's it. Grow up or die.

He's not only talking about Christianity here, but all religions. And given all the wars we are currently involved in, and people on both sides justifying it with religion (9/11, Israel vs Palestine, Bush talking about god giving him a mission, etc.) it's hard to argue against Bill's statement.

I just think that when dealing with public policies, we should base our actions/opinions on FACTS and objective evidence rather than blind belief. Just look at all the stuff attributed to god in the past, and then check out how much of it was explained rationally in the end. Comets, plagues, floods, and the list goes on...

What really irks me is people like Bill O'Reilly who have their own show on a NEWS (!!!) network and then make ridiculous statements like "the tide comes in, the tides goes out...never a miscommunication...clear sign of god" when we are able to explain the tides for almost 300 years now. He's dumbing down the nation and I don't get why no one pulls the plug on shows like that. It's hurting the US. Or why do people invite Patterson who claims god did it every single time there's a natural catastrophe???

I mean, have you seen the latest GOP discussions? People booing a soldier who served his country simply because he's gay. I mean, that guy got shot at, tried to save lives, serve his country...yet simply because of religious intolerance they forget all of that and look down on him. It's really quite disgusting...just as disgusting as those cheering at people dying because they can't afford healthcare.

People do this because their political leaders are using religion to manipulate them...and they are like sheep and stopped thinking for themselves a long time ago.

reply to post by MrXYZ


Sorry X I despise Bill Mahr. There has to be something up with anyone out there who acts so smug and sounds so sure of what he's talking about. It's ridiculous for him to be sure of what he's talking about. Don't you think this to be true? In the face of people far smarter than he is who arn't as sure as he makes himself sound ?


I think he is maybe a mouthpiece for a certain agenda.

Now the Bible says that God created light. That he spoke light into existence. For me the ultimate power that could exist for any being that exists including God would be the power to just speak it and it is done. So this should be an atribute of God and the Bible just happens to say it is an atribute of God. Are you with me