The Five Most Ruthless Police States in America

reply to post by nenothtu

Now Neno, a young man such as yourself already thinking about your Social Security?

I know that those big bucks would provide you with a really cushy financial position in your old age, and I'm sure that you've done an infinite amount of financial planning centered around that huge windfall to be provided by Social Security, but I just have a problem visualizing you anticipating your monthy bonus check from the Post Office.

Louisiana is NOT a tough state as far as law enforcement. The officers in Louisiana actually have a sense of humor - unlike Connecticut State Police.

The laws of state vary - and if you're a retard who's a FrequentFelon, then after a few turns in and out, they just decide to keep you in for a while.

I think law enforcement in general positively sucks in South Carolina. Sucks.

Originally posted by Yankee451
reply to post by desert

 

Lol...

Just a name that was engraved on my memory. He was part of the war on drugs, delivering illegal arms to the contras on one trip, and delivering coc aine to the states on the return trip.

Ah, shucks, I was hoping for some startling new info about that disturbing time in history.

Before 1980, coc aine had pretty much been the drug of addiction for musicians, Then in the 1980s, coc aine flowed through the urban streets, the streets of the poor and black, but I don't remember the hue and cry by society until coc aine became a problem for the (white) middle class. The poor would suffer with their addiction, but the middle class addicts would receive pity and drug rehab.

As govt functions were seen to be pickings for privatization, corporations began grabbing fistfuls of tax dollars to construct/run prisons. Into those prisons went many a drug user, as well as felons who had committed drug related crimes (such as theft/burglary to obtain $ or items to sell for drug money, or assaults/killings connected with drug dealing).

Also into those prisons went the mentally ill, who were no longer receiving adequate community care, when institutions were closed.

So, yes, Hasenfus was the contract employee using the already established drug dealers' routes in order to ship arms southward, and drugs northward. America's involvement in the drug trade was like putting that trade on steroids. But that was ok, because we could just lock 'em up in the growing number of prisons.

Originally posted by FarArcher
reply to post by nenothtu

 

Now Neno, a young man such as yourself already thinking about your Social Security?

Well, I never really thought about it until they told me I'd never see it... then I had to come up with my Plan B!

I know that those big bucks would provide you with a really cushy financial position in your old age, and I'm sure that you've done an infinite amount of financial planning centered around that huge windfall to be provided by Social Security, but I just have a problem visualizing you anticipating your monthy bonus check from the Post Office.

Well, to me a "big buck" involved 8 points or better. Also, I've found that I can get by on nearly nothing, so that check would have sufficed, being nearly nothing itself, it would have precisely matched my aspirations. Sort of irritating that I've paid in all these years, then they just pull the rug out from under me like that, but them's the breaks, I guess.

All of my "financial planning wizardry" generally involved wine, women, and song in my reckless and misspent youth, and spending my untold millions on same as soon as I could get my hands on the money. That particular Plan A didn't work out all that well, but it was fun while it lasted!

Seriously, that check might have been enough to cover a couple pounds of coffee, sugar, salt, and yeast a month, which is likely all I would have spent it on any how, other than a box of shells and a couple other odds and ends here and there, until I was too old to swing an axe at the firewood - at which point I'd be screwed with or without it. I'm pretty low maintenance these days - since I mostly gave up the wine, women and song as foul bad expensive habits.

I'll just have to figure out a Plan C to cover those expenses, or go with Plan B and piss Reno... er, I mean Napolitano... off enough for her to look out for me like that.

Louisiana is NOT a tough state as far as law enforcement. The officers in Louisiana actually have a sense of humor - unlike Connecticut State Police.

The laws of state vary - and if you're a retard who's a FrequentFelon, then after a few turns in and out, they just decide to keep you in for a while.

I think law enforcement in general positively sucks in South Carolina. Sucks.

Most law enforcement I've dealt with were pretty decent folks, depending on how I treated THEM. Now, admittedly I got the red-ass with one in particular who tossed me in the hoosegow for my effort, but he was an ass to begin with, unlike the general population of them. I still made sure he knew I won in the end, in spite of my short stay at his pleasure.

That one was in NC, a Campus Cop of all things, who tried to tell me how dangerous the job was and what all trials and tribulations he'd suffered over the years at the hands of the likes of me. That really didn't set well with me, and after I got tired of it, I told him in no uncertain terms that he probably hadn't been a cop anywhere more than 6 months or so, and that if anyone ever pulled a gun on him, his most likely reaction would be to piss himself and slam his eyes shut. Predictably, I got to wear shiny new bracelets all the way to the jailhouse. BRAND NEW bracelets. Like I said, he'd not had them more than 6 months. Anyhow, it was thrown out of court without even a lawyer getting involved, and I made a point of thanking him for his time when I took the court order to return my property (it was a somewhat odd assortment that he'd planned on using to demonstrate what a dangerous desperado I was) in to the station.

Probably the worst overall I've ever dealt with were West Virginia State boys. Knuckle-draggin' mouth breathers, the lot of 'em, but I still managed to get along without being obsequious. I've had Virginia State Troopers actually stand up for me in court and defend me after getting in dutch with them.

It's mostly in how you relate to them and treat them, assuming you get that chance before they go all postal on you. On that note, a word for Big Sis: If you really want to make it stick, have 'em kick in the door in the middle of the night, instead of standing and knocking in a civil manner. I detest uncivil civil servants, and I'm not in my best humor in the middle of the night anyhow.

If they're civil, and knock on the door and wait for me to answer it, I'll talk to 'em about anything, and go damn near anywhere they want. I've already proven that more than once. If, on the other hand, they prefer the home invasion style of law enforcement, I guarantee a most uncivil welcome. I mean really, who knows whether a dark shadow is telling the truth when it hollers "POLICE!" as it kicks your door in?

Word to the wise: coming through that door after kicking it in skylights you wonderfully.

Far better to stand outside and wait, and produce an ID if I ask. Much healthier for all involved, and it's the civilized thing to do.

The thing that disturbs me is how untouchable police officers seem to be right now in America. Any use of excessive force or even breaking the law is quickly swept under the rug or a statement is released to the effect of "the officer was operating under the law, etc." when clearly that wasn't the case. Absolutely no accountability. In the city I live in there have been a number of instances recently where homeless people or people with mental problems have been shot and killed under very suspicious circumstances. One family had to sue the city and police department and had to go through a long drawn out legal process just to get the officer that shot and killed a family member off the force. Do police officers really get psychological testing before becoming officers because I have a hard time believing that.

As far as the prison system in America goes, it's obviously a joke. Waste of money (except for the ones making money off it), waste of life. How many of these people get "reformed"? I think a strong case could be made that people, after serving sentences and going through prison life, will actually be more likely to commit future crimes. Who knows how many innocent people are actually incarcerated, we already know that innocent people have been executed in this country (that right there should make capital punishment null and void). The whole thing is a mess, IMO, and doesn't really serve society in a positive way. Serving multi-year sentences for marijuana-related "crimes"? I think 20 or 30 years from now people will look back on that and just shake their heads.

reply to post by Jinglelord


People can be senseless yet this bit for and by the people is far from the truth.

Read about the "ANTI FEDERALISTS" and tell me that you still believe the CONstitution was written for anyone but the elites benefit and thus full circle, this part of the experiment was not designed or endorsed by WE THE PEOPLE.

The great lie is that the CONstitution is the holy grail containing our rights yet it was in fact everything to the contrary.

reply to post by nenothtu

Well, after years and years of anticipating my Social Security checks to be spent on wine, women, and song, I got a few hours on the MIT supercomputer and found out I could only afford one of the three.

So I'll buy the wine, hope to bust some moves by offering to share my wine with lithe, tanned, gorgeous former Miss America-types, and just have to serenade them myself.

Then again, that's a lot of trouble for someone who can't sing worth a damn, and it's bound to get downright embarrassing.

Nah. Maybe I'll get another wolf cub. They eat a lot, but unlike those women, wolves don't bark the least little bit, and unlike women, if they start, you can just shoot the wolf. No inlaws to worry about popping in, and you can chain a wolf up without all the drama . . .

Not what I dreamed of, but come to think of it - that's not bad. Not bad at all.

You made some good points about getting along to get along. I've been stopped many many times, but never get a ticket. I comply with their initial requests and ask casually, "how's business?" Most will grin and say it's been too good, and we'll go from there.

I admit to not paying attention and that whatever he says I did - I did. And I then apologize for it, and suggest with my mind being off in space, I'm lucky I wasn't doing worse when he spotted me. But I was certainly paying attention now.

They see liar after liar, mad and furious folks one after another, and to see someone who admits his guilt, apologizes, and really doesn't give a damn if he's about to get a ticket or not - someone who's relaxed and answers honestly - well, apparently it's a whole new experience for them, and they're men too. I think they are looking for a person to come along to cut some slack for.

They just need a reason.

And since entirely due to my gentle, charming personality - just to know me is to love me - reason enough..

Originally posted by FarArcher

Nah. Maybe I'll get another wolf cub. They eat a lot, but unlike those women, wolves don't bark the least little bit, and unlike women, if they start, you can just shoot the wolf. No inlaws to worry about popping in, and you can chain a wolf up without all the drama .

Not what I dreamed of, but come to think of it - that's not bad. Not bad at all.

I've still got both of my hybrids, but they can be noisy rascals, especially when anyone enters the house unexpectedly. I reckon the noise comes from the German Shepherd side of their family, partly, and the attitude that creates it comes from the wolf side - they just don't take well to strangers, and are pretty territorial about it. On the positive side, I can say they love me more than any woman ever has (except maybe mom, and that's in question) and it's absolutely unconditional on how much money is in my pocket at any given instant. Never tried to keep a steak in my pocket to see how THAT worked out, though. Some things is just no-brainers.

They see liar after liar, mad and furious folks one after another, and to see someone who admits his guilt, apologizes, and really doesn't give a damn if he's about to get a ticket or not - someone who's relaxed and answers honestly - well, apparently it's a whole new experience for them, and they're men too. I think they are looking for a person to come along to cut some slack for.

They just need a reason.

Now that's just a fact, any angle you look at it from. They can spot a lie before it even leaves your lips, too. Had one tell me one time when I was about to cross his ears with a whopper "Don't you LIE to me!" before I could even begin to get it out. I reconsidered, and just told him it was because I was a bad, bad person, and let it go at that. The question was "WHY are you sleeping in a car with dead tags, and did you know those tags were dead?" along with a few other minor problems with it. When I reconsidered and told him that it was because I was a bad, bad person, he lightened up, laughed, and let me loose. Just before he left, he told me that he couldn't tell me whether to drive off or not, but that since he'd already checked the car out once, he wasn't gonna waste his time checking it out again that night - wherever he might see it - and it might be better if he saw it elsewhere.

I can take hints pretty well.

Your absolutely right, give 'em a reason, and they'll often make your day!

In New Mexico, they don't put you in jail. They just shoot you.

reply to post by nenothtu


Good grief...get over yourself.

I included Hasenfus because we were discussing the incarceration percentages of victims of the drug war. I maintained the government's war on drugs is simply a war to keep out the competition and populate prisons with them.

Hasenfus was an example of how the government "prosecuted" the drug war...by taking over the shipments.

reply to post by Yankee451


He was delivering arms and supplies to the Contras, not drugs. The drug thing is just a convenient myth for folks who love to hate on the CIA, just like the Afghanistan Poppy thing is. Matter of fact, those mythologies are just a bit TOO convenient.

That whole arms delivery to the Contras thing was what got the Iran-Contra affair kicked off and under investigation. Hasenfus was a cargo-kicker on the flight, not the pilot, and he was a contract employee, not strictly speaking CIA.

The shoot down and his capture are not even illustrative of the Sandinista Police State, much less the US Police State. There are far better examples of both, which actually apply.

Originally posted by nenothtu

He was delivering arms and supplies to the Contras, not drugs. The drug thing is just a convenient myth for folks who love to hate on the CIA, just like the Afghanistan Poppy thing is. Matter of fact, those mythologies are just a bit TOO convenient.

Oh FFS. Another true believer who thinks the CIA isn't the private Spook service for the well-heeled. Talk about living a life of mythology. Afghanistan had nothing to do with Poppies? Good grief, what color is the sky in your world. Our military and Intelligence services are probably the biggest drug mules on the planet.

That whole arms delivery to the Contras thing was what got the Iran-Contra affair kicked off and under investigation. Hasenfus was a cargo-kicker on the flight, not the pilot, and he was a contract employee, not strictly speaking CIA.

You know all the intimate details of his contract, or are you just reciting Wikipedia? Do you just automagically believe every excuse given by criminals? Honestly.

The shoot down and his capture are not even illustrative of the Sandinista Police State, much less the US Police State. There are far better examples of both, which actually apply.

Golly, thanks for the lesson. What's it like to know stuff?

Originally posted by Yankee451

Oh FFS. Another true believer who thinks the CIA isn't the private Spook service for the well-heeled. Talk about living a life of mythology. Afghanistan had nothing to do with Poppies? Good grief, what color is the sky in your world. Our military and Intelligence services are probably the biggest drug mules on the planet.

I note that you have failed to bring evidence to the table for your contentions that Intelligence Services in general, and the CIA in particular, are "drug mules". That is called "blind belief". Living a life of mythology indeed!

"True Believer"? Who? Me, or YOU?

That whole arms delivery to the Contras thing was what got the Iran-Contra affair kicked off and under investigation. Hasenfus was a cargo-kicker on the flight, not the pilot, and he was a contract employee, not strictly speaking CIA.

You know all the intimate details of his contract, or are you just reciting Wikipedia? Do you just automagically believe every excuse given by criminals? Honestly.

WHAT criminals? It is YOU who are making the claims of criminal activity, i.e. drug smuggling - which you have spectacularly failed to prove. I've made no claims of criminal activity, so that's not a claim I need to support. YOU, on the other hand....

The shoot down and his capture are not even illustrative of the Sandinista Police State, much less the US Police State. There are far better examples of both, which actually apply.

Golly, thanks for the lesson. What's it like to know stuff?

I think you may never know.

Originally posted by nenothtu
I note that you have failed to bring evidence to the table for your contentions that Intelligence Services in general, and the CIA in particular, are "drug mules". That is called "blind belief". Living a life of mythology indeed!

"True Believer"? Who? Me, or YOU?

Just because he doesn't post the evidence doesn't mean it's not there. I've seen plenty of stories of federal planes being caught bringing tons of drugs into the country. And it's no secret that the Taliban virtually eradicated opium production in Afghanistan, and since our invasion, opium production in the region has skyrocketed.

Look up Mike Ruppert if you want hard evidence of federal drug smuggling. He worked for the LAPD as a criminal investigator for a number of years, and since then has exposed all kinds of corruption going on around him. He lays out hard facts for you, if you're actually interested in whether or not the feds are smuggling drugs. They use drugs to launder money and supplement black budget expenses. Mike Ruppert will lay it all out for you.

Another video about a CIA plane caught carrying 4 tons of coc aine:

reply to post by bsbray11


The video was sort of hard to make out, with the crowd trying to drown out everything said, but what I did catch was "allegation" without any evidentiary backing to it presented there. Perhaps the evidence can be found elsewhere, so I'll look and see if I can find any. Otherwise, it's no different at all from what I see constantly here at ATS in this matter - a lot of allegation without any evidence. Allegations convict only in the court of public opinion, often without foundation and erroneously. Evidence is what makes the allegations stick and shows them to be factual rather than unfounded, so that's what I'll be looking for.

And yes, I will look. It's possible to change my mind by throwing some evidence in my path rather than just saying "it's out there", but if I have to turn it up on my own, that's what I'll do if it exists.

reply to post by bsbray11


I'll have to dig into that one too, and see what I can turn up. It seems awkward that they're trying to pack far too many "bad things" into a single story, but it's not impossible. Specific questions I have concerning it are:

1) What does flights between the US and Guantanamo have to do with a crash in Yucatan? Yucatan is a very unlikely overflight area for that flight path. If, as the video says, the plane was coming instead from Columbia, what does Guantanamo have to do with that?

2) What evidence is there that this was a CIA plane? I noted that they said the CIA had used it 3 times, all before 2005, but that doesn't make it a CIA plane - generally, an entity (governmental or not) will use it's own equipment more than 3 times. It sounds a lot like a plane that the CIA hired out on 3 occasions - which doesn't mean that the CIA was using it on THIS occasion.

3) What do extraordinary rendition and Guantanamo have to do with each other? If nothing, then why bring up a linkage that doesn't exist? It's my understanding that the renditions were taken to Egypt and Eastern Europe for interrogation, not Guantanamo. Guantanamo is too high profile for that sort of thing. Furthermore, how do either of those things relate to a flight path over Yucatan?

These are just questions to start with. As I said above, I'll dig into it, and if I can confirm anything, I'll report it back here.

I do believe that some of the Air America contract folks from the Vietnam days were smuggling small amounts of heroin into the US using a pretty grisly means. Again, they were contractors rather than CIA. I further believe that rumors of that operation have been used ever since to try to claim that it's a business as usual thing for the CIA itself to be America's main drug supplier - the argument being made to folks who generally won't question it, because it's what they want to believe.

There are several logical problems with that story, not the least of which are things like the CIA-DEA-ETC operations against the Columbian cartels. Now folks will try to paint the picture that it was a simple elimination of competition,but that's not logical. When you "eliminate competition", and you are a supplier, you eliminate other suppliers, NOT the producers for the product you intend to supply. When you start eliminating the producers, you soon have nothing to supply, and have to go out of business.

There is a similar argument for the Afghan poppy fields, but there are folks here who are more knowledgeable in that area, and I'll let them address those issues. Meanwhile, I'll try to find out what the story on this plane is, and why it defies logic.

reply to post by nenothtu


I didn't expect you to say, "Oh yeah, oops, you're right, looks like there is evidence of the CIA and other federal agencies smuggling in drugs."


This is not the most serious conspiracy, and is in fact common knowledge amongst a lot of people in areas like Los Angeles, which is why so many people erupted into cheering and clapping when Mike Ruppert blew the whistle on his own former co-workers.

You can believe what you want, but don't claim there is no evidence. You just have never looked for it. There is plenty to go around. I suppose you think it's just coincidence that opium production in Afghanistan has skyrocketed since our invasion.

Originally posted by bsbray11
reply to post by nenothtu

 

I didn't expect you to say, "Oh yeah, oops, you're right, looks like there is evidence of the CIA and other federal agencies smuggling in drugs."

Why should I? None has as yet been presented, nor have I as yet uncovered any.

This is not the most serious conspiracy, and is in fact common knowledge amongst a lot of people in areas like Los Angeles, which is why so many people erupted into cheering and clapping when Mike Ruppert blew the whistle on his own former co-workers.

Of course it is. It's CIA SOP to make sure Angelinos always know what they're up to. From the video, it appeared more that they were being unruly and boisterous in order to drown out the proceedings and try to keep any facts from sneaking out into the open.

You can believe what you want, but don't claim there is no evidence. You just have never looked for it. There is plenty to go around.

I didn't say "there is no evidence", I said none has been presented here None still has. The factoids presented do not relate to one another, much less lead to the conclusions jumped to. As I said before, I will continue to look for this evidence, and if I find any, I will drag it back here, still steaming. It would assist if you can find any to throw into my path that I might trip over, if it is as prevalent as you claim.

I suppose you think it's just coincidence that opium production in Afghanistan has skyrocketed since our invasion.

Coincidence? No. The Taliban have to get their operating money somewhere. Opium and heroin seem to be the source of choice now. Furthermore, the Afghan opiates are bound predominantly to the Russian markets, not the US, so even that doesn't support the premise of the CIA being AMERICA'S premier drug supplier.

Originally posted by nenothtu

Originally posted by bsbray11
I didn't expect you to say, "Oh yeah, oops, you're right, looks like there is evidence of the CIA and other federal agencies smuggling in drugs."

Why should I? None has as yet been presented, nor have I as yet uncovered any.

Well, if one of the LAPD's own narcotics investigators and whistleblower doesn't count as any kind of evidence for you, then you're already biased beyond any hope of a rational analysis of the information.


Now I suppose comes all the discrediting insults and insinuations of being a disgruntled employee, towards the guy you just learned about a few minutes ago.

Originally posted by nenothtu

This is not the most serious conspiracy, and is in fact common knowledge amongst a lot of people in areas like Los Angeles, which is why so many people erupted into cheering and clapping when Mike Ruppert blew the whistle on his own former co-workers.

Of course it is. It's CIA SOP to make sure Angelinos always know what they're up to.

Who do you think they're selling all the drugs to, genius? Other cops?

Why do you think there was a conference addressing allegations of CIA drug trafficking in the first place? Since the CIA never admitted it, I guess you just take their word for it?


You know what, forget it. There are better things on ATS to argue about. Believe what you want. You will anyway.

Originally posted by nenothtu

I note that you have failed to bring evidence to the table for your contentions that Intelligence Services in general, and the CIA in particular, are "drug mules". That is called "blind belief". Living a life of mythology indeed!

"True Believer"? Who? Me, or YOU?

Is that what it's called; "blind belief"? You're just a fountain of useful information, aren't you? I didn't think I needed to prove what other folks have reported on ad nausea, with Hasenfus just tossed in because I recalled the name from 30 years ago.

When it comes to the CIA, by the nature of their business we're not really allowed to see their evidence, so we must take them at their word. I call that blind faith, but that's just me.

WHAT criminals? It is YOU who are making the claims of criminal activity, i.e. drug smuggling - which you have spectacularly failed to prove. I've made no claims of criminal activity, so that's not a claim I need to support. YOU, on the other hand....

Well, since we're talking about Iran-Contra, how about Oliver North, Eliott Abrams and John Poindexter for a start?
We can move onto the official criminals who have been using the US military to act as the enforcers for Multinational Corporate interests, something you would term "national interests" no doubt. We can move on to WMDs and Obama not prosecuting Bush, but I think you get the picture. Do you need a link, or will that do?

I think you may never know.

The more I know the less I know, you know?