Qur'an burning free speech in America?

First let me say... I believe all religions are destructive to mankind thru their divisive nature and false dogma... They should all be reduced to 'philosophies' rather than these institutions that rule a backwards world.

That said... I am seeing more and more that Islam is becoming a bully that we are expected to tolerate. By bully I specifically mean this idea that we all accept, if you anger Muslims, people will die. Show Mohammed's face and people will die. Burn a Koran and people will die. So the lesson is, don't do it, or else!

I think this hyper sensitivity needs to be desensitized and the only way I see doing that is thru massive burnings of all religious texts, massive production of religious figure images in the form of comedy and comics.

Muslims use a tool of fear to keep people from speaking out against them. And we all accept it. That is terrorism.

Originally posted by adifferentbreed
Funny, alot of the posters on here upset with a Pastor buning the Quaran, are the same ones applauding Wikileaks and Rolling Stone for doing basically the sam damn thing by putting our troops in harms way due to thier actions.........the luncay double standard continues here

I understand your double standard comment, but really let's give credit where cridit is due, it was Bush jr. (and Darth Cheney) and Obama etc. that put our troops in harms way, and as far as i can tell for completely bogus reasons.

I watched as both of them tried to drum up the 'necessary' hatred of 'the enemy'-- the huge majority who had absolutely nothing to do with any attack against the U.S.-- that one needs I guess to invade a foreign land for resources and strategic bases and for financial reasons.

Talk about a double standard, we have so called leaders out front stirring up hatred based on lies, what kind of message does that send to the country and the rest of the world?

reply to post by SpeachM1litant

This country was founded on free speech. Having speech limited is one of the tyrannical factors that led to revolt and the founding of America. To limit it would again would be contributing a tyrannical factor to modern day life.

If Arabs/Muslims or anyone else in the world do not understand the principles upon which America was formed, and that the idiot in Gainesville (and his followers) do not represent the entirety of our country then let them wallow and riot in the juices of their own short-sightedness and stupidity. WE realize that Islamic terrorists are not indicative of the majority of Muslims. And by "WE" I mean the average American. Most of us realize that most people of the world, people of all kinds, just want peaceful lives in which to love their friends and family. It's the few, the minority (like Islamic terrorists and the idiot in Gainesville) who get the fires of hatred burning, and those fires lead to conflict, bloodshed, hatred and death.

Of course, if the masses in Afghanistan are truly outraged at the idiot in Gainesville, and that was all it took to undermine over ten years of work and relationship building, then lets pull out, take care of our own country, our own problems. Then, after the Taliban take over and begin plotting new threats and carrying them out from there again, we'll star over. Reset. How stupid the masses in Afghanistan are to riot over a single American acting like an idiot and burnign their holy book. How stupid those masses are to think that this idiot represents all of America. How shallow and stupid. Apparently, all they were waiting for was any reason to express their veiled hatred.

When the Muslim Taliban blew up the ancient sacred Buddhist statues in Afganistan, which was a world condemned tragedy, did Buddhists the world over take to streets in the 1000's and kill and behead innocents?

It seems to me that burning a Koran is just plain rude - but how do you legislate good manners?

I think this pastor is a disrespectful jerk, but I don't see any reasonable way to force him to behave better. If someone burned a Bible, would that be any different?

I commend the pastors efforts in the simple fact, that he exercised his rights. No law was broken. Further, I believe all religions are laughable. I mean really, a mythical character in the sky? Really? But the point is, there is no law restricting the burning of any book, and considering I've read most of the passages within the Quran, I know its not a book of peace as many would think. BURN BABY BURN!

The Freedom of Speech only applies to you if you meet the following criteria...

1) Are you a minority? Good for you, feel free to say whatever you want, no matter how offensive or insensitive it might be!!!! We've got your back, because somewhere, in your family history, your ancestors might have been wronged. And if anyone calls you out on what you've said, there's always a handy Race Card that you can play to immediately bring a lawsuit or civil action against whomever would dare not bow to you.

2) Are you speaking out against people of European heritage/Caucasians/White People/Crackers/etc.? Outstanding! After all, they are completely to blame for the evils committed by their great, great, great, great, great grandfathers 15th cousin on their mother's side for your modern day problems.

3) Additionally, it is absolutely within bounds to berate and mock anyone of faith, as long as you dare not offend the great Mohammed and Islam. Islam is peace and love, and if you do not think so you are obviously a close-minded bigot crusading infidel who must be silenced and possibly beheaded.

Long story short, we bend over backwards not to offend the largest collection of idiotic cavedwelling neanderthals who have an affinity for IED's and raping women because we are afraid of them.

They get mad, stuff gets blown up. And for all of the bluster and 'heroics' in the West, we're too scared to do a damn thing about it other than blame a moron who decided to burn a book. Honestly, we know this guy is a loon, but it's his right to burn the Quran. Yet you see people all over calling him out, but not saying a thing about that crowd in Mazir-e-Sharif who committed the beheadings and other murders. It's because we are afraid of muslims gettind mad. Guess what? They've been mad since Mohammed was alive!

Islam means "to submit." Looks like the West is adopting Islam as it's religion rather well, doesn't it? If America doesn't get off it's PC highhorse, and soon, Islam will swallow it whole. But liberals and peaceniks will never comprehend the fact that sometimes love and rationality do nothing to solve the problem at hand.

I for one refuse to submit to Allah, Mohammed, God, Christ, Buddha, Obama, Palin, Trogdor the Burninator, etc. etc.

It's time people started standing up and holding others accountable... damn your religion, nationality, or race.
I'm so sick of almost everyone with their victim mentality, primarily the victims of Islam... give me a break. The only thing the Quran understands is violence and taxing non-believers they allow to live. The only thing the Bible understands is violence and sacrificing of one's children.

For those of you who practice your religion peacefully, thank you, it is appreciated.

The rest of you extremist, bible-thumping, jihad-waging baffoons can swallow a hand-grenade in the middle of Antarctica for all I care.

P.S. = Not close to any penguins, though. Those guys rock!

reply to post by SpeachM1litant


How far does free speech go? It goes as far as I want it to. You have the right to be offended, and I have the right to offend you. Now that doesn't mean that I should, because with rights come responsibilities. Having said that, the idiot that burned the qur'an had every god given right to do it, but that doesn't mean that he should have because he is more than likely putting Americans abroad in danger by pissing off a bunch of ideologue muslims, and we all know that usually leads to death and carnage, because that is what happens when you piss off a savage, uncivilized, rabid animal.

Free speech my arse.
As I said in a similar thread, this was done simply to provoke a reaction.
To use an analogy, what would a reasonable person expect to happen to them if they burnt an effigy of Malcolm X in a predominantly black neighbourhood? Or the pope in parkhead? Or Sonny Barger outside a HA clubhouse?
This bloke is no different to the scum that infests the funeral processions of dead soldiers.

reply to post by SpeachM1litant


What the pastor did was morally wrong however his first amendment gives him the right to burn the quran like it or not. If the government takes those rights away then another right follows with another right being taken away, we cannot let this happen or soon we wont have amendments left to protect us against a tyuranous government which our for fathers faught and our for americans died to give us. it is them in the islamic countries having hte issues they need to get over it and move onward, hey how many flags of our have they burned? how manyh christian bibles have they distroyed? in islam if yoru caught with a christian bible you are killed. two wrongs dont make a right but they each the religous nuts are doing the same thing, only this pastors group isnt slaughtering innocent people over their religous actions.

I don't understand what people see in this, or why it is being deliberated. Try telling 300 million Americans what they can't burn and see what happens, more than likely something is going to be burning, in fact try telling one. Burn another, just for fun, our government already has its eyes on foreign territory and people want stuff to start burning.

If Americans were any where near as vindictive and violent as middle easterners, there would be no middle east.

reply to post by broahes


Agreed.. burning books didn't physically kill anyone.. But don't book burnings and massacres oft go hand in hand?

But it was the response of people in another country that killed people.

Personally, I think the only honorable thing for Terry Jones to do is apologize for doing something to incite violence. But also do so while condemning fully the people who carried out the violence..

Again, I think he should apologize to the victims families for his part in that violence, but he should never be banned from his freedom of expression.

Freedom of speech, comes with responsibility. Speak out on whatever you like, burn books, just be able to accept responsibility for your actions, now that being said, if you burn a book, it does not give someone a right to kill others over it. If someone does kill over it, or riot, or any other act of stupidity, then they need to accept responsibility for their actions. Grow up, people! it is a book, made of paper and ink, and is replaceable.

In America, we have the right to say and do what we want...within reason.
Though I never would, if I so choose to do so, I could stand on my front lawn with a Swastika flag waving everywhere in a KKK uniform burning the Koran.

Just because you CAN do something doesn't mean you SHOULD

Any religion that loses balance when faced with hate and then resorts to violence has no spiritual ground to stand on.

Originally posted by Lucifersavior313
In America, we have the right to say and do what we want...within reason.
Though I never would, if I so choose to do so, I could stand on my front lawn with a Swastika flag waving everywhere in a KKK uniform burning the Koran.

Just because you CAN do something doesn't mean you SHOULD

Were you to do what you've described I can almost guarantee you that within 15 minutes you would be tackled by FBI agents and thrown into a cell.

No doubt about it.

Originally posted by spiritualzombie
I am seeing more and more that Islam is becoming a bully that we are expected to tolerate.

I agree. But Christianity went through a similar phase a few hundred years ago. Remember the Inquistion? The destruction of records from S America by Christians because they did not accord with their beliefs? The persecution and death of anyone who did not follow the doctrine?

Islam is a younger religion and seems to be going through the same turbuent teenage phase.

That's not to justifiy it, but to put it in context.

Whilst you may have the legal right to do something, if you are aware that doing so is very likely to result in others committing acts of violence as a result, do you not have a moral duty to refrain? Especially if you are a Christian - and thus follow the teachings of Jesus Christ. Although IMO this Pastor is no more a Christian than was Pol Pot. And I am very, very, sure that Jesus woud agree with me.

(and for the record, those reacting violently to his actions are no more Muslims than was Attila the Hun)

Originally posted by backinblack
reply to post by SpeachM1litant

 

IMO the burning is just to offend..
But in reality it's just paper with some ink on it..

Muslims should look at it like that..
In fact the more Qur'ans bought and burnt, the more money generated for Islam..

Precisely. It is more symbolic and political than anything else. What if someone indirectly burned a factory that printed the qurans? I think the MSM is playing games upto certain extent on both sides.

Religious belief and teachings are all and should be in the head. Religion is a way of life and not necessarily a book. The pastor can put up any act as indicated by others. The Folks in ME burn the US flag and efigee all the time. Who knows how many of them are killing people because they are not muslims on their side? Forget about burning book. Sometimes there are people burnt alive in the name of religion. What about that ?

Originally posted by Essan

Originally posted by spiritualzombie
I am seeing more and more that Islam is becoming a bully that we are expected to tolerate.

I agree. But Christianity went through a similar phase a few hundred years ago. Remember the Inquistion? The destruction of records from S America by Christians because they did not accord with their beliefs? The persecution and death of anyone who did not follow the doctrine?

Islam is a younger religion and seems to be going through the same turbuent teenage phase.

That's not to justifiy it, but to put it in context.

I think that's a good point. This could be the growing pains of Islam. And its this sort of thing that is reason why I loathe religion. I can respect people, have empathy for their plight, but religion itself is so destructive, so ridiculous and absurd, to claim that they have the answers to all that is, and that their path is the only path... It's a Nigerian email scam... it's an eBay seller with no feedback, who only accepts money orders... In your face scam artists who eventually seek money or blood or both and always for the sake of power. Whatever religion is, it is definitely not for truth and love.

For example, take Christianity... supposedly we have a billion Christians on the planet, and yet, if we truly had a billion people following the teachings of Christ, there would be a massive push for Peace and Love that would have dwarfed the hippy movement of the 60s, and been on going on an epic scale, the likes of which the world has never seen. Why haven't we seen this?