Christianity - A Religion of Death Part I

reply to post by Myrtales Instinct



The only problem with what you're saying is that it both assumes and requires a belief in the Christian faith. These people I am talking about aren't some shadowy, mysterious elite, they are real people in positions of power in politics, education, the economy and society. They sit in judgment right now, they have placed themselves above the rest of the population of the world and have claimed the power to pass judgment on others.

reply to post by Shadowflux


You may believe that, but I certainly don't. The God I know is full of love, mercy and compassion and when he puts his Spirit in you it's a game changer. And when you know he's on your side, everything else becomes trivial. I know you feel really strong about what you are writing or you wouldn't be writing it in the first place.

Let me add something, in an attempt to get you to better understand my position.

My own mother sits in judgement of me yet she claims the title of Christian. She doesn't like my husband, who I've been with for almost thirty years. My daughter died a little over a year ago, and she didn't even come to the funeral, nor has she even called me once to ask how I'm doing.

It's very hurtful but it's okay. She can judge and be bitter all she wants. I forgave her the very day she shunned me because he's in my life. We are here for a brief short time and it's how we treat others and the way we love - that is what it's really all about.

Here's a couple of examples of how peaceful and loving the message of the bible is:
Isaiah 13:9,15-18 contains this message from God: "Behold, the day of the Lord cometh, cruel both with wrath and fierce anger. . . . Every one that is found shall be thrust through. . . . Their children also shall be dashed to pieces before their eyes . . . and their wives ravished. Behold, I will stir up the Medes against them. . . . [T]hey shall have no pity on the fruit of the womb; their eyes will not spare children." (So this is what is supposed to happen to the enemies of God huh? I guess I had better start following God's commandments, like: )

In Numbers chapter 31, the Lord approves of these instructions that Moses gave to the Israelite soldiers about how to treat certain women and children captured in war: "Now therefore kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman that hath known man by lying with him. But all the women children, that have not known a man by lying with him, keep alive for yourselves." (So God approves of pedophilia as long as the children are virgins?)

Or how about Deuteronomy 22:28: If a man happens to meet a virgin who is not pledged to be married and rapes her and they are discovered, 29 he shall pay the girl's father fifty shekels of silver. He must marry the girl, for he has violated her. He can never divorce her as long as he lives. (So God forces the poor girl who was raped to see her attacker every day for the rest of her life, cook his meals, clean his home, fulfill her "wifely duties" and bear his children??? Wow! all you have to do if you want to have a house-slave is rape one and pay her dad a month's wages?)

Don't try to give me any of that crap about how that is old testament and the hateful god of the OT somehow became reformed in the NT. Here's a scripture from the new testament that invalidates that point: 2Timothy 3:16 All Scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof , for correction, for training in righteousness.

The world will never know peace until these religions purporting to be faiths centered around peace when all they do in reality is divide people and make them hate each other and tell them that their only hope of ever escaping the evils in the world that it causes is to die or for the entire world to be destroyed.

Originally posted by Shadowflux

Originally posted by troubleshooter

Originally posted by Shadowflux
reply to post by Myrtales Instinct

 

My problem, which I thought was quite clear in the article, is that there are many people in positions of power who subscribe to this doctrine of death. These people pray, quite regularly, for the second coming of Christ which implies the destruction of the material world. They pray that the sinner will be punished and tortured and that the righteous will be victorious over the rest of the world. These people, some with real power and wealth, believe that the end of the world is at hand.

My problem is that this is a dangerous situation and can only lead to misery and death.

The second coming is not about the destruction of the material world...
...but its remaking...
...the future for believers is a new earth not a destroyed one.

"And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea. ... And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away." Revelation 21:1-4

It is about the remaking of the world after it's destruction.

The future for non-believers, even for those Christians who believe "inappropriately", is death and eternal damnation, according to this doctrine.

Do you have some references for this assertion or is it just what you have been told?

Popular notions about the end of the world do not necessarily have a basis in the biblical manuscripts.

I think you are just reacting to a lot of popular nonesense...
...and you should know your subject a bit better before making unsupported statements.

reply to post by ELahrairah


Thank you.

Sometimes I try to take the "notso" out of my username.

reply to post by jammietime


I don't see how any one can claim God does not exists.

Youre a complete imbocile, we Christians do not pray for the destruction of the world or laugh at the torture of anyone. Jesus taught us to have mercy and forgive like he told the idiots who were going to stone the adulterer. I have never read such biased garbage in all my life. If you want to blame people who destroy the earth go and blame the scientists who have polluted the world with their inventions and are now trying to find ways to clean it up. By the way I do not go to church or any organised Christianity as some of what you say is true the hypocrasy but their are many like me we pray at home and help our neighbours and have a conscience so dont go railroading me and people like me the ones you forgot to talk about with evry hypocrite that might be out there and lastly we born agains are not concerned as you say with a death cult mentality, we are concerned with the now helping the sick and poor and miserable around the world

Those who destroy the earth will be destroyed...

"The nations were angry, and Your wrath has come, And the time of the dead, that they should be judged, And that You should reward Your servants the prophets and the saints, And those who fear Your name, small and great, And should destroy those who destroy the earth." Revelation 11:18

While respect for other’s beliefs is important - - - -

reply to post by Shadowflux


Really ?

So if a christian changes his mind and decides to believe something else then reason would dictate that we respect his new belief equally, yes?

What if he decides to beleve that it's ok to have sex with children ?

Great thread dude S&F but I have to srongly disagree with the notion of being compelled to respect beliefs.

To my mind the concept of vicareous redemption is a repugnant as paedophilia and members of the death cult called christianity pose a greater threat to the worlds children than a hand full of child molesters.

Jesus taught us to have mercy and forgive like he told the idiots who were going to stone the adulterer.

reply to post by shroudnews77


They were only going to stone the adulterer because yawhe/jesus ordered it.

Nevertheless, according to your majik book if an individual chooses not to bow down to the celestial tyrant then it''s off to hell for eternal torture. Shame the godman doesn't practice what he preaches, a trait that is evident in almost every xtian I've ever come in contact with.

As usual the hate filled, intolerant, illogical, fear-mongering religious nut bars are attacking a thread like this with baseless diatribe and garbage.

You are members of a CULT. Dont you get it?

reply to post by Shadowflux


The people you are referring to in your OP, I believe, are the fundamentalists. They do not comprise the majority of Christianity but they are dangerous regardless. Much like the fundamentalists of Islam. They are both radical in their views.

My mother is a Christian and she falls into the fundamentalist camp as well. Knowing her as well as I do and then seeing all these reports of the actions of other Christian fundamentalists, I can safely say that they interpret the bible the way they do because they cannot deal with life on life's terms. If they were to live their lives as close to the teachings of Jesus as a person possibly could, it would be a different story. If that were the case, they would be dealing with life on it's own terms.

These people intentionally separate themselves on an emotional level from anyone else who does not share their radical views. I believe that Jesus existed and that this person had a very advanced 6th sense. It has been scientifically proven that we all have it, but it is not advanced because we don't use it. Jesus could accomplish things that no one else could. I also believe that there is something bigger and more powerful than any of us that is, to a great degree, more powerful than us. And if we truly believe that, we will ascend to that higher plane of consciousness which this power originates from. For every different religion on this plant, there is a different name for this power. I also believe that Jesus was a direct "product" of that, and if you follow his teachings as close as you possibly can, you will eventually reach his level. This is what Christians call heaven.

Now, although the terminology and words that I just used are different than what your average Christian would have used, the end result is the same. But is that good enough for the fundamentalists? No. You have to believe exactly WHAT they believe in the WAY that they believe it. If you don't, you're going to "hell". In my opinion, that's not dealing with life on its own terms. In order to do that you need to accept that other people hold different views than you do, and that if someone holds the same views you do but see's them on a slightly different angle, that's OK too.

Accepting something doesn't mean you have to agree with it or even like it for that matter, but acceptance goes a long way towards bringing peace and love to each other. If we ever got to the point where we could do that, we wouldn't have to wait to die to reach a higher level of consciousness, we would have it right here, right now.

reply to post by Shadowflux


Another misguided and ill-informed Christian bigot.

Your very first statement belays the rest of the post.

The most fundamental belief of most Christians, especially those claiming to be “born again”, is the idea that Christ will come again to judge the sinners of the world and bring his true followers into an everlasting paradise. This isn’t the doctrine taught to new converts as they are usually presented with a very simple understanding of Christ and his teachings as recorded in the Gospels. This doctrine of the second coming of Christ is reserved for those “true believers”, those followers who have proven themselves as true disciples of the Christian Church.

Wish ATS had a "buzzer" emcon or something. Wrong again Alex, tell em' what he's won!

The fundamental belief of Christianity is simply thus:
Jesus the Christ really lived, he really died, and he really was risen from the dead by God the father. Christ first came as a lamb, a living sacrifice for humanity, and upon his return he will come as a Lion. Not to devour man, but to devour sin and present the Grace of eternity to all mankind.

Christianity is all about life, it's doctrine and belief follows a risen God that promises eternal life. The message of Christ is that death has no power any more.

The very thing we humans fear most has been conquered.

"Where, O death, is your victory? Where, O death, is your sting?"

1 Cor 15:55

reply to post by Shadowflux


And another thing... you've missed the boat right out of the gate on another note... "... especially of those claiming to be "born again"..."

The term born again has nothing to do with Christ coming back, but that our old life is dead to us and we're free - through Christ - to live a new life for Him. Christ offers a freedom that the chains of sin kept from us.

Even non-believers know this... how often have you wanted to do something but thought "who am I to take that on? I'm not good enough, I'm not worthy".

This is what "born-again" is about, not Christ coming back.

nice post interesting ....thanks for the great read

reply to post by 5StarOracle


It is hard to know where to begin in addressing such ignorant slander of the Bible, Christ and his followers. It is the usual theme of hate's slanderous nonsense:

Christians love death. Christians fail to live up to moral ethics, therefore they are evil liars as if there exists some superior creature that does not sin or fail to live up to personal standards. To even hold ethicial standards is "hate" for it implies there are physically and spiritually good results and bad results for the chooser in life. The high horse riders pretend that bad results for their bad choices are God's fault (judgement) because God warned them not to do it.

Christians who believe in the end times prophecy (earth changes as foretold in all ancient cultures and religions) and look forward to the arrival of the Messiah, are rooting for destruction. Likewise, Christians who look forward to joining God in the afterlife are evil for not making God accept the ones who hate Him and those who beleive in Him, into His kingdom. To the typical anti-Christ goon, there is nothing worse than the judgement of human character failures.

Hard telling if the OP's hatred derives from murderous Islam or murderous Marxism's atheist social beleif structures. The atheist States of Marxism have murdered more innocent people than all religions combined. Islam is running a close second which explains why the Left finds such kinship with Islam. In fact, there is no group or tribe of people innocent of persecution and murder. Atheist and Islamic States just win the prize by far in past century.

One thing is for sure. While this ranter has one finger pointing at Christians and three fingers pointed at himself. What an empty and ignorant world view.

reply to post by Shadowflux


My my, what a bastardized version of christianity you have observed, and I apologize for it - for whatever that's worth.

You would do well to separate the actual tenets of christianity itself (those found in the new testament/christian bible) from the perversions inflicted upon it by various so-called churches and other institutions throughout history - there is a lot of chaff to sort from the wheat here. Even Yahushua taught:
Mat 7.1 - "1 “Do not judge, or you too will be judged. 2 For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you."
...
7.13 - "13 “Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. 14 But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it." (there are a LOT of 'christians' out there!)
...
7.21 - "21 “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22 Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles?’ 23 Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’ "

When asked about the greatest commandment of the entire law, Yahushua responded: "“‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.’ 38 This is the first and greatest commandment. 39 And the second is like it: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’ 40 All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments.”

He also taught us elsewhere:
" 3Blessed are the poor in spirit: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
4Blessed are they that mourn: for they shall be comforted.
5Blessed are the meek: for they shall inherit the earth.
6Blessed are they which do hunger and thirst after righteousness: for they shall be filled.
7Blessed are the merciful: for they shall obtain mercy.
8Blessed are the pure in heart: for they shall see God.
9Blessed are the peacemakers: for they shall be called the children of God.
10Blessed are they which are persecuted for righteousness' sake: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
11Blessed are ye, when men shall revile you, and persecute you, and shall say all manner of evil against you falsely, for my sake.
12Rejoice, and be exceeding glad: for great is your reward in heaven: for so persecuted they the prophets which were before you.
13Ye are the salt of the earth: but if the salt have lost his savour, wherewith shall it be salted? it is thenceforth good for nothing, but to be cast out, and to be trodden under foot of men.
14Ye are the light of the world. A city that is set on an hill cannot be hid.
15Neither do men light a candle, and put it under a bushel, but on a candlestick; and it giveth light unto all that are in the house.
16Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven.

As far as the unsaved burning in hell for all eternity, this is another of those perversions I mentioned. The bible says:
John 3.16 - For God so loved the world that he gave his only-begotten son, that whosoever believes in him shall not perish, but have everlasting life.
Rom 6.23 - For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.
(the unsaved do not HAVE everlasting life - have not accepted the gift of God, no access to the tree of life, etc.)

It's even fuzzy as to WHO is unsaved - in Revelations, you've got a prior resurrection of those who have accepted the gift of life through Christ and did not turn away in triubulation, then you also have a mysterious verse almost no one ever pays attention to:
Rev 20.13 - And the sea gave up the dead who were in it, Death and Hades gave up the dead who were in them, and they were judged, each one of them, according to what they had done.
(I believe this covers those who either never had the Word presented to them, or who has it mis-presented - but lived by the law as written on their hearts and the Spirit of god within them)

I must say I'm glad I don't personally know any of the false christians you mention who pray for the death and torture of others - when I pray, I pray that people may walk according to the law and spirit of God and turn from all sin, hate, and evil. I do pray that those committing such deeds (usually the high-and-lofties in our world) be brought to account for it swiftly to end their abuses, but not that they be tortured.

I also do not believe in a pre-tribulation rapture - the church will be here for the ride.

This can be verified according to the faith as Thessalonians refers to the dead in Christ rising first - but compared to the end scenes of Revelation, the first resurrection does not occur until the return of Christ, which takes place after the end of the tribulation:
Rev 20.4: "4 I saw thrones on which were seated those who had been given authority to judge. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony about Jesus and because of the word of God. They[a] had not worshiped the beast or its image and had not received its mark on their foreheads or their hands. They came to life and reigned with Christ a thousand years. 5 (The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were ended.) This is the first resurrection. 6 Blessed and holy are those who share in the first resurrection. The second death has no power over them, but they will be priests of God and of Christ and will reign with him for a thousand years."

Long and short, actual biblical christianity is a faith of love, light, and life. Do right to one another. Be servant of all. Try to share with and educate others - correct, edify, and encourage. Share the gift of life.

Yes, there is judgement coming on this world, for the wicked and rebellious. But it is no judgement that they would not face anyway - death comes to us all, and this world will be ended. "Hell" (greek 'gehenna' in this sense) is effectively YHVH's garbage disposal, for lack of better term. It's the end. Not the eternal - and there wouldn't be much better result being left on the planet facing its final destruction otherwise anyway. Thinking of it, a lot of people DO like to say "it's better to burn out than fade away" anyway...

Be well!

Well first let me say that I once belonged to organized christianity...and in many forms and I too no longer participate.

I discovered early on after my conversion that the vast majority...if not almost all Organized "church" based chrisianity fails to follow even the most basic teachings from the good book. At least IMHO.

When Jesus first taught about the beleivers and how they should continue and live, he mentioned some very strong statements. Most could be taken for a comunist/communal style of society. And thus the early church would have been goups of family and niebours meeting in thier homes to "break bread" and share thier lives/struggles with. They had all things in common, shared excess evenly and basicly lived in open and free community. Don't work don't eat.

All these things changed when Emperor Constantine decided to make the basics of the faith surrounding Jesus into the state religion(to hold power over dying Roman Empire)....Roman Catholic?? It wasn't till a long time later when the "church then split into other denominations/varieties of faith.sigh t...he begining of force fed religion.

"Good News" simplely is the fact that the belief in the act of Jesus as Christ on the cross/for us and his having risen again as the son of God gives us the right to intercede with God on our own behalf...therefore you are all now priest in the order of M..... ect. And as such (sons/daughters of God through Christ Jesus) are afforded GRACE.......the big thing here is an END TO CONDEMNATION. Simplified if you believe you are the priest anyone else is not needed.

Taken in context where the religious leaders held all the power and ruthlessly.....his message was "good news" as it started a peacefull rebellion...where people walked away to start living new....stopped being serfs. And it seems History is repeating itself....at least to me.

Peace out,

reply to post by Shadowflux


You are 100% correct my friend, very nicely put