Christianity - A Religion of Death Part I

reply to post by Shadowflux


What no Christian seems to like to talk about is, as bad as Muslim exremism is today, it comes know where close to what the Christian god demanded of his followers in the Old Testament. Loving god? Right... If there wasn't one person who was didn't believe in him, in a town, the Bible demanded that everybody in that city be killed. As well as fortune-tellers, homosexuals, non-virgins(before wedding), infidels, even people who work on Sundays. Huh? Loving god?! HA

Not only does it condone murder, it condones rape, slavery, and the two combined.

"When a man sells his daughter as a slave, she will not be freed at the end of six years as the men are. If she does not please the man who bought her, he may allow her to be bought back again. But he is not allowed to sell her to foreigners, since he is the one who broke the contract with her. And if the slave girl's owner arranges for her to marry his son, he may no longer treat her as a slave girl, but he must treat her as his daughter. If he himself marries her and then takes another wife, he may not reduce her food or clothing or fail to sleep with her as his wife. If he fails in any of these three ways, she may leave as a free woman without making any payment." (Exodus 21:7-11)

It would take pages to post all the verses contradicting their loving god theory, but they're not that hard to find just open to a random page in the Bible and you'll probably find one.

Any religion that says you have to believe a certain way to get to heaven instead of the virtue of your life, is so obviously a fraud, well I guess it's not so obvious, at least it is to me.

So umm the Christian pedophile gets to spend eternity in la la land because he belives in Jesus? But the Buddhist man who devoted his whole life to spreading love and peace goes straight to hell to be tortured for all of eternity?

LOVING GOD?! hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahah

THE IMPORTANCE OF CONTEXT IN BIBLICAL INTERPRETATION!

Of the reasons Christians disagree, an inadequate knowledge of what the Bible teaches tops the list. If many more Christians learned to interpret the Bible in context, quite a few denominational differences could disappear.

A much better unity will result by going to the Bible and studying it in all it's contexts, allowing it to teach us. The test of what is true should not be denominational creeds or doctrinal statements. What we believe should not be based on tradition, church history, personal opinion, wishful thinking, prejudice, bias, or unquestioning acceptance of what we have been taught. The final test of truth is the accurate interpretation of the Bible in any area it touches upon. God has shared with man a part of His infinite knowledge. We must find out what He meant by what He said.
Only by finding out what God meant by what He said can we begin to do His will and have real unity with Him and fellow Christians. We must begin with a teachable, humble attitude, willing to change, realizing how much we don't know and God does. Then once we have correctly ascertained the will of God from the Word of God, don't ask "should we obey it", just obey it. As the missionary leader, C. T. Studd, said: "If Jesus Christ be God and died for me, then nothing is too great for me to do for Him".

reply to post by Shadowflux


Hey Shadowflux, just thought I'd throw my 2 cents here. Please don't interpret this as an attack or even an attempt to sway your position, just trying to provide some insight from a different point of view. (I will try not to post a text wall LOL)
First, you generalize all Christians into one group which in my opinion is a rather significant error.
I agree with most of your post if you had stated that this was the position of "Fundamentalist Christians"
I also noticed that the main theme of your post is centred around the tribulation and rapture (please correct me if I'm wrong).
I think it's all a matter of interpretation, as are most things in life. Since this is my position, what I have done is tried to find the most original versions of scripture. Since learning Aramaic is not an option, I moved on to the first translation of the bible (that I know of) which is Koine Greek. Being Greek myself I found this language much easier to learn to study scripture. So I'd like to make a distinction within Christian faith and your article.
My knowledge and experience comes for a large, but rather quiet portion of Christianity known as the Orthodox faith.
Orthodoxy focuses mostly on the gospel teachings of Christ, with all other books of the bible as "supporting documentation". It promotes love and tolerance for your neighbor, INCLUDING your enemies (which let's face it, is next to impossible to do!)
In regards with rapture, this is a historically recent notion which was formulated in 1830. Something that Orthodox Christians do not believe in.source. Another source
In regards to tribulation, again it is a matter of interpretation. Many believe that the book of Revelation speaks directly of tribulation. The truth is, it speaks of "challenging times for humankind" this includes both believers in Christ and non-believers. ALL will suffer during these times, both physically and spiritually. Infact, some intepretations believe that Christians will once again be a minority, and be persecuted.
So as you can see, at least from an Orthodox point of view, the second coming will be preceeded by misrable times for all who believe in Christ.
As for hell, fire, and brimstone, again that is an intepretation.
The actual phrase for those "not saved" is that they will dwell in a place "outside of God's grace and love". The interpration is that life would be "hell" without God's grace and love.
I can write more, but I promised no text wall.
Hope the above might at least point out that not all Christians are fear-mongering end-of-days nuts!

Disclaimer: The sources I posted are articles intended for Orthodox faithful and may sound somewhat preachy at times.

reply to post by Praetorius


Bravo!

Well said my friend. Keep shining your light!

With Love,

Your Brother

Originally posted by BlackStar99
reply to post by Shadowflux

 

What no Christian seems to like to talk about is, as bad as Muslim exremism is today, it comes know where close to what the Christian god demanded of his followers in the Old Testament. Loving god? Right... If there wasn't one person who was didn't believe in him, in a town, the Bible demanded that everybody in that city be killed. As well as fortune-tellers, homosexuals, non-virgins(before wedding), infidels, even people who work on Sundays. Huh? Loving god?! HA

Not only does it condone murder, it condones rape, slavery, and the two combined.

The Old Test is a recorded history of God's people at a time when humanity was the enemy of God, New Test is the story of how God remedied that and has changed the relationship.

Again, you and others take the worst of Christianity's doctrines and followers - push it all together - and use it as an excuse why it's all bad.

It's like the scientists who fill a lab rat with the equivalent of 10,000 diet Cokes and then say "Diet Coke causes cancer!".

Warped perception and warped context make for warped results.

Originally posted by The Djin
They were only going to stone the adulterer because yawhe/jesus ordered it.

Nevertheless, according to your majik book if an individual chooses not to bow down to the celestial tyrant then it''s off to hell for eternal torture. Shame the godman doesn't practice what he preaches, a trait that is evident in almost every xtian I've ever come in contact with.

First, prove that Christ ordered the stoning. Where did you get such ridiculous thoughts?

Second, Christ is the King of Kings, Lord of Lords. Does one King bow to another? No, you are equals.

Lastly, Christ brought one Law to unify all mankind. It is a Law that enforces itself. Love one another.

If you are unloving, you will be unloved.

If you are loving, then you will be loved.

Now some are unloved simply because we have created a world where love has no place. Our hearts have grown cold and untrusting of our fellow man. This is why we are so easily enslaved. We do not trust each other, to unite against our captors. We do not love one another enough to sacrifice all to free all. We do not follow the divine law, and thus we reap what we have sown.

Times they are a changing though!

With Love,

Your Brother

Originally posted by gncnew

Originally posted by BlackStar99
reply to post by Shadowflux

 

What no Christian seems to like to talk about is, as bad as Muslim exremism is today, it comes know where close to what the Christian god demanded of his followers in the Old Testament. Loving god? Right... If there wasn't one person who was didn't believe in him, in a town, the Bible demanded that everybody in that city be killed. As well as fortune-tellers, homosexuals, non-virgins(before wedding), infidels, even people who work on Sundays. Huh? Loving god?! HA

Not only does it condone murder, it condones rape, slavery, and the two combined.

The Old Test is a recorded history of God's people at a time when humanity was the enemy of God, New Test is the story of how God remedied that and has changed the relationship.

Again, you and others take the worst of Christianity's doctrines and followers - push it all together - and use it as an excuse why it's all bad.

It's like the scientists who fill a lab rat with the equivalent of 10,000 diet Cokes and then say "Diet Coke causes cancer!".

Warped perception and warped context make for warped results.

Oh don't worry, I know. God made a magical 170 degree change in personality when he 'sacrificed his one and only son' which wasn't really a sacrifice since both of them knew that he would just spend a few hours in pain before his soul poofed to heaven. Hah whatever. The other 10 degrees he wouldn't budge on was the belief in him and his kid part, which really isn't much of a change at all because that's the most immoral part of the religion anyways.

Very good topic, you are correct that most Christians do not know what their actual belief system is about. I was once a Christian not knowing these things, and later studied and found out most of it was a sham and filled with lies. Christianity is a man-made religion based on corrupt scribes, scholars and theologians to bring in masses of people to create 'peace on earth'. Have we heard that before??? That is the theme of the Christmas Story that Christians promote, yet nearly 99% of them never read the actual story from the Scriptures, and do not know that who they call "Jesus" but is actually a Hebrew named Yahuwshuwah, did not come to bring peace on earth but salvation and division.

Luke(Luqas) 9:56 " ' For the Son of Adam did not come to destroy men's lives but to save them.' And they went on to another village..."

Luke(Luqas) 12:51,52 "Do you think that I came to give peace on earth? I say to you, no, but rather division. For from now on five in one house shall be divided, three against two, and two against three-"

Most Christians deny many aspects of their Messiah and claim He is only "love" but they forget the other half of that which is a hate for sin and the punishment for the wicked. Now, in a way the Christians do pray for punishment on the wicked, but do not intentionally want everyone to die but rather be saved. But those who reject the Good News, are rejecting the light and truth from the Father, and then must be punished. Even the name "Christian" did not come around until Emperor Constantine around 300 CE when he killed the Jewish people and called them 'Christians', because there were many Christs around those days in the Greek language. He even killed the Jewish people "Christians" with his symbol, X or a cross saying " in this sign you will conquer".

Now the part about tribulation and rapture is a confused and twisted subject, and I have not fully understood. Christians pray for the rapture and believe they will be saved from the tribulation(pre tribulation rapture) others say they will be saved during tribulation (mid tribulation rapture) and others say be saved end of tribulation before the wrath (Post Tribulation rapture).

For anyone who actually studies scripture, and not commentaries and dumbed down preachers and wicked theologians, there is no rapture. The word doesnt even exist in scripture. It was invented by the Christian church or as the rest of us call it The Whore of Babylon one of the heads of the Beast, to put Christians to sleep, just listen to the Pastor and shut up, and therefore not be ready for when the second coming of the true Messiah Yahuwshuwah really shows up.

Matthew(Mattithyahu) 24:26 "Blessed is that servant whom his master, having come, shall find so doing. Truly I say to you that he shall set him over all his possesions. But if that evil servant says in his heart, 'My master is delaying his coming,' and begins to beat his fellow servants, and to eat and drink with the drunkards, the master of that servant shall come on a day when he does not expect it, and at an hour he does not know, and shall cut him in two and appoint him his portion with the hypocrites - there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth."

Why do you think the Catholic Church in the "Dark Ages" killed anyone who tried to read scripture or spoke up against it? They wanted to indoctrinate everyone with their own teaching, and they could sway the masses without anyone knowing.

I personally do not want everyone in the Lake of Fire for eternity, I do not pray for that. But if you reject the truth, then you had your warning and deserve it! Don't people get a sigh of justification or satisfaction when they see a Mass Murderer Hanged? Or when a Child Molester Prisoned? Or a Wicked Thief Caught? Its the same with right and wrong. Those who hate the light and love the darkness (hate good and love evil) deserve eternal punishment.

John(Yohanan) 3:17-19 "For Elohim did not send His Son into the world to Judge the world, but that the world might be saved. He who believes in Him is not judged, but he who does not believe is judged already, because he has not believed in the NAME of the only brought-forth Son of Elohim. And this is the judgment, that the light has come into the world, and men loved the darkness rather than the light, for their works were wicked."

The Father's Name is Yahuwah and the Son is Yahuwshuwah, for those who are willing to seek the truth.

Shadowflux-

I have not had the time to read through this entire thread because I am at work, so I apologize to all if these items have been discussed.

The premise for your writing is that the tribulation, suffering and perishing of non-believers is arguably the most important part of a Christians belief system. You claim that Christians don't just understand this, but that they actively pray for it, and attempt to bring it to fruition. You even claim that the Bible teaches them to do so if I'm not mistaken. With all due respect, this is all incorrect. In fact, the entire premise of your writing is false, and your article proves or shows nothing. There are no sources, no Scripture quoted, only your beliefs of what Christians believe is. And I must say, your thoughts are not true.

First, Christians are not taught to help bring about the Tribulation. Having grown up in a Christian home, school and attended various denominations of churches both Catholic and Protestant for the better part of 25 years, I can honestly say that I have never seen or heard such a doctrine taught. If I had, I would demand to be shown the passages of the Bible that tells Christians to do so. If you can show me Scripture that calls for Christians to do so, I will retract my statement. If one is going to make such claims, one must provide proof. The onus is on the accuser, and you sir have not provided any proof or examples of your claims. You have only made unsubstantiated statements. This fact alone essentially nullifies what you have written until you provide some type of proof or backup to your claims.

I apologize if what I have written sounds harsh or if it sounds like I am upset. I'm not, and I don't want anyone to take what I have written the wrong way. All I gathered from the OP is that he BELIEVES Christians are all about the suffering of others, doom and gloom, and the destruction of the world. I saw no proof or substantiation of said claims though. Until that is done, I see no reason to do anything but lean on my own personal studying and experiences, which show these claims to be utterly false.

Peace and Love from a Christian and your fellow man.

reply to post by IAMIAM

Originally posted by The Djin They were only going to stone the adulterer because yawhe/jesus ordered it. Nevertheless, according to your majik book if an individual chooses not to bow down to the celestial tyrant then it''s off to hell for eternal torture. Shame the godman doesn't practice what he preaches, a trait that is evident in almost every xtian I've ever come in contact with.


First, prove that Christ ordered the stoning. Where did you get such ridiculous thoughts?

The Bibles are allegedly written/inspired by a god according to the majority of xtians.

Also according to the majority of xtians, this god is known as yahwhe and also jesus apparently they are one and the same being.

All laws contained in the bibles (and penalties for breaking them ) were given by aforesaid god again according to the majority of xtians.

Obviously you don't prescribe to the notion that jesus (the one that appears in the bibles) is the creator/co creator of all that there is, was, and will ever be or had any involvement in the bible laws.

Paul’s understanding as an apostle and leader of the church Colossians 1:15-16; 2:9: “He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation. For by him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things were created by him and for him. . . . For in Christ all the fullness of the Deity lives in bodily form. . .”

I'm not making up the rules mate, if jesus (the one that apears in the bibles) is god (ie yahwhe) then he must be held accountable for his own rules.

I'm not the one that saddled xtianity with this nonsense but merely point out what is written, you guys can take it or leave it but please don't insult the intelligence of others who are able to read but choose to reject credulity.

reply to post by gncnew

New Test is the story of how God remedied that and has changed the relationship.

How is it possible for an unchanging being to change ??

reply to post by Evil3unnie

I don't see how any one can claim God does not exists.

No one is claiming a god does not exist.

Someone, is not providing proof of the claim that a god does exist.

Originally posted by The Djin
reply to post by IAMIAM

 

Originally posted by The Djin They were only going to stone the adulterer because yawhe/jesus ordered it. Nevertheless, according to your majik book if an individual chooses not to bow down to the celestial tyrant then it''s off to hell for eternal torture. Shame the godman doesn't practice what he preaches, a trait that is evident in almost every xtian I've ever come in contact with.


First, prove that Christ ordered the stoning. Where did you get such ridiculous thoughts?

The Bibles are allegedly written/inspired by a god according to the majority of xtians.

Also according to the majority of xtians, this god is known as yahwhe and also jesus apparently they are one and the same being.

All laws contained in the bibles (and penalties for breaking them ) were given by aforesaid god again according to the majority of xtians.

Obviously you don't prescribe to the notion that jesus (the one that appears in the bibles) is the creator/co creator of all that there is, was, and will ever be or had any involvement in the bible laws.

Paul’s understanding as an apostle and leader of the church Colossians 1:15-16; 2:9: “He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation. For by him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things were created by him and for him. . . . For in Christ all the fullness of the Deity lives in bodily form. . .”

I'm not making up the rules mate, if jesus (the one that apears in the bibles) is god (ie yahwhe) then he must be held accountable for his own rules.

I'm not the one that saddled xtianity with this nonsense but merely point out what is written, you guys can take it or leave it but please don't insult the intelligence of others who are able to read but choose to reject credulity.

Fair enough my friend. You are correct, some Christians do make such claims based on Paul, the one who never knew Christ. I just wanted to know where you got the thought from.

It should be pointed out that Christ NEVER made this claim himself though...

With Love,

Your Brother

reply to post by kove400

For anyone who actually studies scripture, and not commentaries and dumbed down preachers and wicked theologians, there is no rapture. The word doesnt even exist in scripture. It was invented by the Christian church or as the rest of us call it The Whore of Babylon one of the heads of the Beast, to put Christians to sleep, just listen to the Pastor and shut up, and therefore not be ready for when the second coming of the true Messiah Yahuwshuwah really shows up.

Well, I see someone has been reading their brit chadasha...former messianic, or jewish? Seem not to keep with the christian faith -well, OK, 'the Way'- anymore based on your opening.

Regardless, the rapture is actually scriptural, or at least mentioned in the epistles if you don't want to consider them scripture. It comes from the greek work 'harpazo' translated as "caught up" in 1 Thessalonians 4:17 - "1 Thessalonians 4:17".

The debate is actually only WHEN this will occur.

The rest of your post being what it is, I won't even address as the root and writings of the faith itself are fine based on my research (just don't look EXCLUSIVELY in the 'bible' as there are plenty of other writings out there - some questionable - and take some of what you find in the bible with a grain of salt. I don't consider of all Paul, Peters, etc., opinions to be scripture. But they can be useful).

The faith and institutions themselves have been perverted, though, as the book itself foretells.

Chesed v'shalom.

On a side note, if you aren't already familair with www.eliYah.com, I think you might find it useful and I'd appreciate your thoughts.

There were a lot of replies while I was away and, unfortunately, I don't have the time to personally respond to each one. I have read them, however, and will try to reply as best I can to all of them.

I'm having a hard time really understanding the thought processes of some of the Christians in this thread. They open their statement by saying I am wrong, I believe the word "ignorant" has a high density, and then attempt to prove me wrong by reciting biblical passages, interpreting these passages their own way and, in essence, repeating to me the same things I have written about. They try to convince me that they're right and I'm wrong yet they can't even agree with each other.

Of all the people I see Christians arguing with the greatest majority has to be other Christians. Ever since the first Council of Nicaea in 325 ad, "Christians" have been condemning other "Christians" as following a false doctrine. If Christians truly followed the one true faith then why can they not agree on anything about that faith? I have even see members of the same congregation arguing about scriptural passages and their interpretations.

This is one of the fundamental reasons that I say Christianity is a divisive and destructive religion. It even causes it's own followers to argue with and condemn each other over the words of this loving and caring God.

Many people also seem to think that I have a poor understanding of the Bible and I'm sure a few people think I've never even read it. The problem, here, is that anyone who reads the Bible and is free from reprogramming and indoctrination will have a hard time viewing the Judeo-Christian God as a loving and caring deity. Anyone who has studied the past two thousand years of history will have a hard time seeing Christianity as a compassionate loving religion. The only people who seem to operate under this false assumption that Christianity is a religion of love, life and compassion are those who have suffered long term indoctrination and reprogramming.

I understand that it can be hard to prove me wrong without referring to scripture but the problem is that everyone seems to have a different interpretation of what scripture means. What a passage says is often different from what it is supposed to mean. What many of these people fail to understand is that they are trying to interpret an English (or other language) version of the Bible. The Bible wasn't written in your native language and English translations are the worst of the bunch. If we are to compare the multitude of different translations of the King James Bible alone, we will begin to get an idea of how corrupt these translations are.

People don't understand that certain languages, such as Greek and Hebrew, are not structured nor meant to be interpreted the same way modern languages are. Take the Gospel of John, for instance, it talks about "The Word" and how it was with God and it WAS God. The real word used is the Greek "Logos" which has so many deeper meanings than simply "word".

My point is that people are condemning me, trying to convert me, or simply disagreeing with me based upon their interpretation of scripture yet they are not even interpreting the accurate and original scripture and they have no understanding of languages that carry such deep meanings in every word.

I know that people are reading what I've written but I don't think everyone is really absorbing what I'm saying.

reply to post by Shadowflux


Good point on people needing to get familiar with the scriptures and their original languages - I recommend the E-Sword program for everyone (www.e-sword.net). This allows access to a host of different versions & translations, commentaries, and dictionaries of the original languages.

As far as the overall theme of your thread - I'd assume you have the same issues with judaism and islam directly, any other religions that have supposed claims of exclusivity and judgement indirectly, and politics (and the whole host of other related, divisive issues) peripherally?

As far as you stating:

I understand that it can be hard to prove me wrong without referring to scripture but the problem is that everyone seems to have a different interpretation of what scripture means

...you are correct. It's utterly impossible, in fact, as that's where the valid basis of the faith lies. To argue that this isn't allowed as you don't trust the interpretation of the texts based on the fact that most people don't have access to the original languages and we are hence somehow unable to derive their correct meaning & intent is to, in effect, make your argument infallible by default - which it isn't.

Be well, friend.

reply to post by Praetorius


My argument may not be utterly infallible but it is quite valid and I've yet to see anyone present an argument to the contrary that didn't validate the points I've made or degrade into the recitation and misinterpretation of scripture.

I'm not saying that people aren't allowed to quote scripture, the real problem with quoting scripture is, as others have pointed out, that there are plenty of passages that validate my argument. If someone were to follow the ultimate, one and only, true faith, then they should be able to present a rational and convincing argument with out fear tactics and scripture.

One of the rules of writing marketing copy is to emphasize benefits, not functions, because benefits are undeniable. Quoting scripture to back up an argument is akin to emphasizing functions and shows that most of these people haven't experienced any of the supposed benefits of their faith and use scripture to legitimize a belief that they don't have a firm foundation for.

the only thing hurting Christianity is Christians.

reply to post by HispanicPanic


Are you referring to the "True Christians" or the Christians that believe incorrectly? According to most of the people I've been talking with, most Christians are wrong and are going to burn in damnation but only a small select group of Christians are really following the true teachings. Apparently, some people believe the "True Christians" will reign over all of us for 1,000 and correct everyone's misconceptions.

Lucky for us

Just to let you know, I've posted Part II of this series here: A Religion of Death Part II This thread was originally posted in the Conspiracies in Religion forum but a mod saw fit to move it here.