Our Hearts and Brains Emit Energy Fields

reply to post by Jezus

This experiment proves you wrong.

No it doesn't. Read the description and setup and workings of the experiment again. The human mind is not a variable at all. The only thing's involved in the experiment are the instruments. We see the results. We only see the results after they've gone through our sensory organs, processed by our brains and then utilized by our mind as information we can make sense of. Where in this experiment does it claim the mind detaches from the brain flitters through space and affects the experiment? Where?

It doesn't mean reality doesn't exist either. It just means that physics as we understand it in our macroscopic world doesn't behave exactly the same way was physics at the subatomic level. Matter still exists, reality still exists, atoms still exist, planets still exist, etc. Everything still exists regardless of you or I being around to observe it existing. Just as it has been existing before we evolved to ask why does it exist and how it came to be. It's a tough question to answer and one we don't have an answer for, but reality is still there with or without us. We're not a special race of beings that creates reality. We only create our perception of it, just as a snake or a cat would have their own different perceptions based on how they see differently or how they might have better olfactory sensors than we do.

Originally posted by sirnex
reply to post by Jezus

 

This experiment proves you wrong.

No it doesn't. Read the description and setup and workings of the experiment again. The human mind is not a variable at all.

Raw data is a variable.

Deleting the data AFTER measuring changes the experimental results.

What is data?

Meaningless without the human mind.

reply to post by Jezus

What is data?

Meaningless without the human mind.

Not according to physics, so learn some. Research information and what it means in physics, then get back to me if you still hold this erroneous view that your intrinsically special to the universe.

reply to post by sirnex


It has nothing to do with me or even humans in general...

But of course information is meaningless without consciousness

Are you actually arguing that data/information is some how physically connected to that which it describes?

I thought you already got past this...

Originally posted by sirnex
I get it. An apple is an apple because we associate an abstract grouping of symbols that inherently have no purpose or meaning in and of themselves other than that we understand those abstract squiggles as signifying what type of fruit we're eating.

Originally posted by Jezus
reply to post by sirnex

 

It has nothing to do with me or even humans in general...

But of course information is meaningless without consciousness

Are you actually arguing that data/information is some how physically connected to that which it describes?

I thought you already got past this...

Originally posted by sirnex
I get it. An apple is an apple because we associate an abstract grouping of symbols that inherently have no purpose or meaning in and of themselves other than that we understand those abstract squiggles as signifying what type of fruit we're eating.

It depends on your usage of information.

Are you discussing the data/results or are you discussing information and what it means in physics and it's usage in the experiment?

If your discussing data/results form of information, then reality still exists. The only thing that has changed in the experiment is our understanding of how reality works, not that it poof disappears without us. The experiment does not include the human mind as a variable in it's operation. We only see the data/results after the completion of the experiment. Get that? After it's physically DONE.

If your discussing information in physics and how it applies to this experiment, then reality still exists.

reply to post by sirnex


No one said anything about reality not existing...

Measure and keep = wave function collapses
Measure and delete = wave function stays intact

This proves that measuring does not collapse the wave function but rather the existence of information.

So is the information some how physically connected to the experiment?

No.

So what is the connection?

Consciousness.

Originally posted by Jezus
reply to post by sirnex

 

No one said anything about reality not existing...

Measure and keep = wave function collapses
Measure and delete = wave function stays intact

This proves that measuring does not collapse the wave function but rather the existence of information.

So is the information some how physically connected to the experiment?

No.

So what is the connection?

Consciousness.

The sun is round and yellow.
The balls is round and yellow.
Therefore the ball must be a sun.

Edit to clarify:

Go to wikipedia and search physical information. When the experiment is discussing information, this is the form it's discussing. It's not discussing information as in the data/results and what the squiggly lines mean to us.

reply to post by sirnex


Of course the information is physically represented, how else would it be deleted?

It doesn't matter if the information is physically represented it still isn't physically related to what it describes.

Delete information and it influences the results of a physically complete experiment.

There are two possibilities.

1. The Data becomes "connected" to what it describes.
2. The wave function only collapses if the information is available to a conscious observer.

You can attempt to rationalize this experiment but the implications are clear...

Originally posted by Jezus
reply to post by sirnex

 

Of course the information is physically represented, how else would it be deleted?

It doesn't matter if the information is physically represented it still isn't physically related to what it describes.

Delete information and it influences the results of a physically complete experiment.

There are two possibilities.

1. The Data becomes "connected" to what it describes.
2. The wave function only collapses if the information is available to a conscious observer.

You can attempt to rationalize this experiment but the implications are clear...

OK, I know I asked this earlier. Please tell me where the human mind is part of the setup in the experiment. At which step is it utilized? Can you give me a specific quotation from the experimental setup that mentions the human mind as being part of the setup, measurements, and instrumentation used?

The experiment does nothing but show us that subatomic particles behave differently than macroscopic objects. What it doesn't show us is any of that new age crap being spewed from the OP's video, from what the bleep do we know type movies, nor does it show us that we're special and without us the entire universe wouldn't exist. It just says and only says that the small doesn't behave the same as the big.

Originally posted by sirnex
OK, I know I asked this earlier. Please tell me where the human mind is part of the setup in the experiment.

Are you joking? Take the human mind out of the experiment and see what's left. That should immediately show you the critical importance of it to the whole process.

Maybe you think scientific experiments carry themselves out?

Originally posted by sirnex
OK, I know I asked this earlier. Please tell me where the human mind is part of the setup in the experiment.

The part where they delete information that is not in anyway physically related to what it describes...

..BUT somehow it still influences the results of the experiment.

Information is meaningless, it is abstract like art, without a conscious observer to comprehend it.

Information = the human mind

reply to post by bsbray11


Exactly!
If a tree falls in the woods but no one's there to hear it, does it make a sound - and all that...

Originally posted by 5senses
reply to post by bsbray11

 

Exactly!
If a tree falls in the woods but no one's there to hear it, does it make a sound - and all that...

edit on 12-4-2011 by 5senses because: (no reason given)

Yes, it would make a sound. Sound is a form of mechanical energy. Just saying... Simple physics and all...

Originally posted by Jezus

Originally posted by sirnex
OK, I know I asked this earlier. Please tell me where the human mind is part of the setup in the experiment.

The part where they delete information that is not in anyway physically related to what it describes...

..BUT somehow it still influences the results of the experiment.

Information is meaningless, it is abstract like art, without a conscious observer to comprehend it.

Information = the human mind

edit on 12-4-2011 by Jezus because: (no reason given)

What step does the human mind directly delete anything or change anything in the experimental setup? It's a simple question...

I'm also going to suggest again that you head to wikipedia and look up physical information and what it means in physics. If your further interested you can look into it more from there on out.

Originally posted by sirnex
What step does the human mind directly delete anything or change anything in the experimental setup? It's a simple question...

A simple question with a simple answer....right here.

"Walborn and his coworkers created an interference pattern, made a "which-way" measurement which destroyed the interference, and then erased the "which-way" marker, bringing the interference back."

However, this isn't the part the proves consciousness is a factor.

It doesn't matter who or what deletes the information (even though a human mind made the decision).

The point is that information = the human mind.

The existence of information changes the experimental results.

reply to post by Jezus

However, this isn't the part the proves consciousness is a factor.

It doesn't matter who or what deletes the information (even though a human mind made the decision).

I've never seen anything in the experiment that mentions that the human mind made the particles behave the way they do at the subatomic level.

The point is that information = the human mind.

Not in physics. Maybe in language and written text, possibly mathematics, but in physics your discussing an entirely different aspect of information.

Originally posted by sirnex

The point is that information = the human mind.

Not in physics. Maybe in language and written text, possibly mathematics, but in physics your discussing an entirely different aspect of information.

So are you saying that in physics information is some how physically connected to what it describes???



I'm speaking of information represented physically in the real world in ANY way.

It is NOT physically connected to what it describes...even in physics.

That is all you need to understand to understand that consciousness is a factor.

Originally posted by Jezus

Originally posted by sirnex

The point is that information = the human mind.

Not in physics. Maybe in language and written text, possibly mathematics, but in physics your discussing an entirely different aspect of information.

So are you saying that in physics information is some how physically connected to what it describes???

I'm speaking of information represented physically in the real world in ANY way.

It is NOT physically connected to what it describes...even in physics.

That is all you need to understand to understand that consciousness is a factor.

edit on 13-4-2011 by Jezus because: (no reason given)

PLEASE READ ME.

Information in PHYSICS has nothing to with with consciousness or the human mind nor does it make any mention that the mind has any affect upon reality itself. The mind does not *DIRECTLY* observe reality nor does it affect reality.

reply to post by sirnex


You don't seem to be getting this...

I'm talking about the physical representation of information in reality.

On a computer, in a book, or on a chalk board, it doesn't matter.

It is never, even in physics, physically connected to what it describes.

Human CONSCIOUSNESS gives it meaning and creates the connection.

Originally posted by Jezus
reply to post by sirnex

 

You don't seem to be getting this...

I'm talking about the physical representation of information in reality.

On a computer, in a book, or on a chalk board, it doesn't matter.

It is never, even in physics, physically connected to what it describes.

Human CONSCIOUSNESS gives it meaning and creates the connection.

UGH! Did you read the link? Consciousness has nothing to do with information as how it's applied in physics. It's an ENTIRELY different concept. READ THE LINK IT EXPLAINS IT BETTER THAN I CAN.