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I m astonished by the number of people related to all this who died shortly after.
What ou brought here is in my opinion, proofs of a conspiracy.
I wonder if Kennedy is dead?
Because he did not intend to kill Oswald
Originally posted by Rising Against
Related thread - although perhaps not exactly a "forgotten" victim - The Peculiar Death Of Bobby..
I only see one shot and not him taking aim for another.
That is not the way to kill someone and he would know that a shot aimed there is highly likely non-fatal. I didnt realize that either mainly because i just didnt think about it until his own brother mentions it, but it makes a lot of sense.
At best he had to figure on a 50-50 chance he would survive, I think survivability under those circumstances is actually higher though. Like i said, just seemed like a fluke that he ended up dying.
That is just the beginning because honestly it does not make sense to kill Oswald to cover up any crime because then it looks more like a conspiracy whereas in reality Ruby was not exactly mentally fit.
Because really they never have involved minor "bit players" in these things before. I am referring to the Mafia involvement.
What are they chances they would rat them out?
Google Video Link |
Carried on in the next post.
In 1975 Frank Church and his Select Committee to Study Governmental Operations with Respect to Intelligence Activities discovered that Judith Campbell had been involved with both Giancana and John F. Kennedy. It emerged that during the 1960 presidential election Campbell took messages from Giancana to Kennedy. Campbell later claimed these messages concerned the plans to murder Fidel Castro. Kennedy also began an affair with Campbell and used her as a courier to carry sealed envelopes to Giancana. He told her they contained "intelligence material" concerning the plot to kill Castro.
Giancana was now ordered to appear before Church's committee. However, before he could appear, on 19th June, 1975, Sam Giancana was murdered in his own home. He had a massive wound in the back of the head. He had also been shot six times in a circle around the mouth.
(Source)
According to Peter Dale Scott, in 1976, James Jesus Angleton "told an investigator that he knew which mob figures, from the New York and Chicago mafia families, had killed Sam Giancana. He also blamed the Church Committee for causing the death of Giancana and Rosselli, by demanding testimony concerning topics on which the mafia code of silence could not be broken."
On 14th January, 1992, the New York Post claimed that Hoffa, Santos Trafficante and Carlos Marcello had all been involved in the assassination of President John F. Kennedy. Frank Ragano was quoted as saying that at the beginning of 1963 Hoffa had told him to take a message to Trafficante and Marcello concerning a plan to kill Kennedy. When the meeting took place at the Royal Orleans Hotel, Ragano told the men: "You won't believe what Hoffa wants me to tell you. Jimmy wants you to kill the president." He reported that both men gave the impression that they intended to carry out this order.
In 1992 Giancana's nephew published Double Cross: The Story of the Man Who Controlled America. The book attempted to establish that Giancana had rigged the 1960 Presidential election vote in Cook County on John Kennedy's behalf, which effectively gave Kennedy the election. It is argued that Kennedy reneged on the deal and therefore Giancana had him killed.
In his autobiography, Mob Lawyer (1994) (co-written with journalist Selwyn Raab) Frank Ragano added that in July, 1963, he was once again sent to New Orleans by Hoffa to meet Santos Trafficante and Carlos Marcello concerning plans to kill President John F. Kennedy. When Kennedy was killed Hoffa apparently said to Ragano: "I told you could do it. I'll never forget what Carlos and Santos did for me." He added: "This means Bobby is out as Attorney General". Marcello later told Ragano: "When you see Jimmy (Hoffa), you tell him he owes me and he owes me big."
Did you watch the Derren Brown programme on Channel 4 where he hypnotised a guy into shooting Stephen Fry as he stood on a stage in a theatre ?
If it was real ( which it looks), i think the proof of MK Ultra is there.
"Well then I suggest you take the time to watch the video I added to my previous post.
It's not like he shot Oswald and then immediately backed down here. He shot him and then went in for a second time but was physically restrained before he had an opportunity to strike him. It can be seen quite clearly."
"1.) A shot to the stomach certainly can be fatal, and it's much more dangerous than you're trying to portray. 2.) We don't know how much Ruby thought about this, for all we know he had one plan in mind.. shoot Oswald and make sure that at least one shot hit (thus why he hit the easiest target available to him - the stomach.)
This wasn't a spontaneous event you know. Ruby was practically stalking Oswald while he was in police custody, and he's been spotted on film doing so. Here's a screenshot of him in a room full of reporters just prior to the famous midnight press conference of Oswald:"
"Why not? We already know for a fact that the Mafia and the CIA were working together on operations at the time, particularly in Cuba with assassination attempts on Fidel Castro. And we can tie multile different mafia figures at multiple different times to the JFK case also such as Sam Giancana for example, Johnnie Roselli, Santo Trafficante, Carlos Marcello and it goes on and on and on.."
"Do you mean something like this?"
You are using sources from books written about individuals who are all dead. The writers can claim anything they want
I have seen that video before you posted many times. I don't see him going in for a second shot and most people don't seem to see that either.
I don't see him going in for a second shot and most people don't seem to see that either.
Now another thing is what benefit to these people would Oswald being dead have since he was already in police custody and of course they interviewed him extensively at that point. What he wanted to say was already said.
Another thing you don't consider is why would Ruby first kill they and then blame other people?
Google Video Link |
That video is not credible at all.
and do you honestly believe people like Giancana etc. approached Oswald and Oswald just agreed to it?
In 1975 Frank Church and his Select Committee to Study Governmental Operations with Respect to Intelligence Activities discovered that Judith Campbell had been involved with both Giancana and John F. Kennedy. It emerged that during the 1960 presidential election Campbell took messages from Giancana to Kennedy. Campbell later claimed these messages concerned the plans to murder Fidel Castro. Kennedy also began an affair with Campbell and used her as a courier to carry sealed envelopes to Giancana. He told her they contained "intelligence material" concerning the plot to kill Castro.
Giancana was now ordered to appear before Church's committee. However, before he could appear, on 19th June, 1975, Sam Giancana was murdered in his own home. He had a massive wound in the back of the head. He had also been shot six times in a circle around the mouth.
According to Peter Dale Scott, in 1976, James Jesus Angleton "told an investigator that he knew which mob figures, from the New York and Chicago mafia families, had killed Sam Giancana. He also blamed the Church Committee for causing the death of Giancana and Rosselli, by demanding testimony concerning topics on which the mafia code of silence could not be broken."
On 14th January, 1992, the New York Post claimed that Hoffa, Santos Trafficante and Carlos Marcello had all been involved in the assassination of President John F. Kennedy. Frank Ragano was quoted as saying that at the beginning of 1963 Hoffa had told him to take a message to Trafficante and Marcello concerning a plan to kill Kennedy. When the meeting took place at the Royal Orleans Hotel, Ragano told the men: "You won't believe what Hoffa wants me to tell you. Jimmy wants you to kill the president." He reported that both men gave the impression that they intended to carry out this order.
According to Peter Dale Scott, in 1976, James Jesus Angleton "told an investigator that he knew which mob figures, from the New York and Chicago mafia families, had killed Sam Giancana. He also blamed the Church Committee for causing the death of Giancana and Rosselli, by demanding testimony concerning topics on which the mafia code of silence could not be broken."
On 14th January, 1992, the New York Post claimed that Hoffa, Santos Trafficante and Carlos Marcello had all been involved in the assassination of President John F. Kennedy. Frank Ragano was quoted as saying that at the beginning of 1963 Hoffa had told him to take a message to Trafficante and Marcello concerning a plan to kill Kennedy. When the meeting took place at the Royal Orleans Hotel, Ragano told the men: "You won't believe what Hoffa wants me to tell you. Jimmy wants you to kill the president." He reported that both men gave the impression that they intended to carry out this order.
Another question is why not just eliminate Jack Ruby instead of supposedly having him shoot Oswald?
No actually we dont know that for a fact. The fact is the government and the Mafia dont do anything together
The CIA conspired with a Chicago gangster described as "the chieftain of the Cosa Nostra and the successor to Al Capone" in a bungled 1960 attempt to assassinate Fidel Castro, the leader of Cuba's communist revolution, according to classified documents published by the agency yesterday.
The disclosure is contained in a 702-page CIA dossier known as the "Family Jewels" compiled at the behest of then agency director James Schlesinger in 1973. According to a memo written at the time, the purpose of the dossier was to identify all current and past CIA activities that "conflict with the provisions of the National Security Act of 1947" - and were, in other words, illegal.
The dossier covers operations including domestic surveillance, kidnapping, infiltration of anti-war movements, and the bugging of leading journalists.
But its detailed information on assassination attempts against foreign leaders is likely to attract most attention.
The plot to kill Mr Castro, whom the US government at the time considered a threat to national security and a stooge of the Soviet Union, begins quietly and sinisterly in August 1960.
The documents released yesterday describe how a CIA officer, Richard Bissell, approached the CIA's Office of Security to establish whether it had "assets that may assist in a sensitive mission requiring gangster-type action. The mission target was Fidel Castro".
The dossier continues: "Because of its extreme sensitivity, only a small group was made privy to the project. The DCI (Director of Central Intelligence Allen Welsh Dulles) was briefed and gave his approval."
Following the meeting with the Office of Security, Bissell employed a go-between, Robert Maheu, and asked him to make contact with "gangster elements". Maheu subsequently reported an approach to Johnny Roselli in Las Vegas. Roselli is described as "a high-ranking member of the 'syndicate' (who) controlled all the ice-making machines on the (Las Vegas) Strip and (who) undoubtedly had connections leading into the Cuban gambling interests".
The CIA is careful to cover its tracks. According to the dossier, Maheu told Roselli that he (Maheu) has been retained by international businesses suffering "heavy financial losses in Cuba as a result of Castro's action. They were convinced that Castro's removal was the answer to their problem and were willing to pay the price of $150,000 (£75,000) for its successful accomplishment".
Roselli was also told that the US government was not, and must not become aware of the operation.
Roselli in turn led the CIA to a friend, known as Sam Gold. In September 1960, Maheu was introduced to Gold and his associate, known as Joe. In a development that appears to underscore the amateurishness of the whole operation, Maheu subsequently accidentally spotted photographs of "Sam and Joe" in Parade magazine.
Gold was in fact Momo Salvatore Giancana, "the chieftain of Cosa Nostra (the mafia) and the successor to Al Capone". Joe was actually Santos Trafficante, Cosa Nostra boss of Cuban operations.
Instead of accusing me of making up facts you should adress the things i brought up.
What have i made up or been dishonest about?
Now if the Mafia was using Ruby for a hitman, no stomach shot and cant see why they would do it in forn of t.v cameras.
Originally posted by Rising Against
reply to post by Malcher
Instead of accusing me of making up facts you should adress the things i brought up.
1.) You did make up facts though, and I clearly highlighted them in my last post.
2.) The above text is very hypocritical of you in all fairness. I just posted 3 full posts full of information all of which address what you previously brought up and in reply you've completely failed to address any of it, instead you chose to quite conveniently ignore it all and claim I'm the one ignoring you. And I posted extensively before those 3 posts which again you failed to fully address.
With all due respect but It's rather rich of you to say "you should adress the things i brought up" when you quite clearly refuse to do it yourself.
What have i made up or been dishonest about?
Read my last posts. I highlighted them already.
Now if the Mafia was using Ruby for a hitman, no stomach shot and cant see why they would do it in forn of t.v cameras.
Ok, this is the third time Ive posted this now. Come on, this is getting silly.
Ruby was seen stalking Oswald in the days before he shot him and I posted 2 screen shots of this already. He was practically stalking him. Now the very fact that he shot him on the 24th, and the very fact that he was stalking him in the days before this, means that the only logical explanation was he was looking for an opportunity to do it and he was finally given the perfect opportunity on the 24th, which was unfortunately in front of the TV cameras.
The fact remains though that he was intending to shoot him as soon as he was given the chance. And as I shown in my last post he was looking for at least a second shot.
In regards to the stomach shot. I addressed my thoughts on this in my previous posts already.edit on 20-11-2011 by Rising Against because: (no reason given)