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Quran says Allah/God gave the Holy Land to Israel?
page: 1share:
"It is written in the Holy Qur'an that God granted the Land of Israel to the Children of Israel and ordered them to settle therein (Qur'an, Sura
5:21) and that before the Last Day He will bring the Children of Israel to retake possession of their Land, gathering them from all different
countries and nations (Qu'ran, Sura 17:104). Consequently, as a Muslim who abides by the Qur'an, I believe that opposing the existence of the State
of Israel means opposing a Divine decree."-Sheik Abdul Paleizo
So why are the Muslims (in general, obviously) so hell bent on getting rid of Israel, if Allah has ordained that Israel would retake the Holy Land that He has given to them?
So why are the Muslims (in general, obviously) so hell bent on getting rid of Israel, if Allah has ordained that Israel would retake the Holy Land that He has given to them?
reply to post by Lemon.Fresh
Perhaps the Israel that was artificially created is not actually the land God was talking about.
Perhaps the Israel that was artificially created is not actually the land God was talking about.
Just because a book says that God gave the jews Isreal, doesn't give them a legitimate claim to the land. Just like the Holy Bible, it's all just a
bunch of stories. It means nothing.
edit on 29-3-2011 by Darkmask because: spelling
I did a little more digging for you:
Sura, Chapter 5, section 20-26 of the Holy Qur'an
Please understand, the verse simply explains the Exodus. Yes, the Israelis (according to folklore) were given the Land of Israel by God. And yes the Qur'an tells the same story of Moses and the Israelites. But what you are forgetting is when Moses and the Jews made the covenant with God, God told them if they did not follow the commandments they would be banished from the promised land.
Please review the follow excerpt taken from 2 Kings 17:18-20
So according to the Qur'an, the Bible, and the Torah, yes the Israel was Gods gift to the Jews. But because the Jews did not follow their lord and savior they were banished for the rest of eternity. And since then, Muslims have inhabited the area.
Sura, Chapter 5, section 20-26 of the Holy Qur'an
20. Remember Moses said to his people: "O my people! Call in remembrance the favour of God unto you, when He produced prophets among you, made you kings, and gave you what He had not given to any other among the peoples.
21. "O my people! Enter the holy land which God hath assigned unto you, and turn not back ignominiously, for then will ye be overthrown, to your own ruin."
22. They said: "O Moses! In this land are a people of exceeding strength: Never shall we enter it until they leave it: if (once) they leave, then shall we enter."
23. (But) among (their) God-fearing men were two on whom God had bestowed His grace: They said: "Assault them at the (proper) Gate: when once ye are in, victory will be yours; But on God put your trust if ye have faith."
24. They said: "O Moses! while they remain there, never shall we be able to enter, to the end of time. Go thou, and thy Lord, and fight ye two, while we sit here (and watch)."
25. He said: "O my Lord! I have power only over myself and my brother: so separate us from this rebellious people!"
26. God said: "Therefore will the land be out of their reach for forty years: In distraction will they wander through the land: But sorrow thou not over these rebellious people.
Please understand, the verse simply explains the Exodus. Yes, the Israelis (according to folklore) were given the Land of Israel by God. And yes the Qur'an tells the same story of Moses and the Israelites. But what you are forgetting is when Moses and the Jews made the covenant with God, God told them if they did not follow the commandments they would be banished from the promised land.
Please review the follow excerpt taken from 2 Kings 17:18-20
17 They sacrificed their sons and daughters in the fire. They practiced divination and sought omens and sold themselves to do evil in the eyes of the LORD, arousing his anger.
18 So the LORD was very angry with Israel and removed them from his presence. Only the tribe of Judah was left,
19 and even Judah did not keep the commands of the LORD their God. They followed the practices Israel had introduced.
So according to the Qur'an, the Bible, and the Torah, yes the Israel was Gods gift to the Jews. But because the Jews did not follow their lord and savior they were banished for the rest of eternity. And since then, Muslims have inhabited the area.
edit on 29-3-2011 by BiGGz because: (no
reason given)
edit on 29-3-2011 by BiGGz because: (no reason given)
Originally posted by Lemon.Fresh
"It is written in the Holy Qur'an that God granted the Land of Israel to the Children of Israel and ordered them to settle therein (Qur'an, Sura 5:21) and that before the Last Day He will bring the Children of Israel to retake possession of their Land, gathering them from all different countries and nations (Qu'ran, Sura 17:104). Consequently, as a Muslim who abides by the Qur'an, I believe that opposing the existence of the State of Israel means opposing a Divine decree."-Sheik Abdul Paleizo
So why are the Muslims (in general, obviously) so hell bent on getting rid of Israel, if Allah has ordained that Israel would retake the Holy Land that He has given to them?
Good point.
I guess one should wonder what percentage of Muslims have read the Qu'ran?
Is that the same book that says:
10. A husband has sex with his wife, as a plow goes into a dirt field.
The Quran in Sura (Chapter) 2:223 says:
Your women are your fields, so go into your fields whichever way you like . . . . (MAS Abdel Haleem, The Qur’an, Oxford UP, 2004)
We should make no mistake about this verse. It includes sexual positions. In a footnote to this verse, Haleem says that Muslims in Medina heard from the Jews that "a child born from a woman approached from behind would have a squint."
The hadith are the reports of Muhammad’s words and actions outside of the Quran. Two reliable hadith collectors and editors are Bukhari (d. 870), Muslim (d. 875). After the Quran, the hadith come second in importance and sacredness among the vast majority of Muslims around the world.
Since the hadith is explicit, the readers are invited to click here and read for themselves, at their own discretion: Muslim nos. 3363-3365.
See these parallel hadith here and here.
We should have no doubt that the husband controlled their sex life. If a woman does not want to have sex, then angels curse her.
. . . "If a man invites his wife to sleep with him and she refuses to come to him, then the angels send their curses on her till morning." (Bukhari)
Here is the back-up article. This one also provides back up material. See the section at the beginning "Women Are Men’s Property."
9. Husbands are a degree above their wives.
The Quran in Sura 2:228 says:
. . . Wives have the same rights as the husbands have on them in accordance with the generally known principles. Of course, men are a degree above them in status . . . (Sayyid Abul A’La Maududi, The Meaning of the Qur’an, vol. 1, p. 165)
Gender inequality shows up in a theological context. This hadith shows that the majority of the inhabitants of hell are women.
The Prophet said, "I looked at Paradise and found poor people forming the majority of its inhabitants; and I looked at Hell and saw that the majority of its inhabitants were women." (Bukhari, emphasis added; see also these parallel traditions here and here.)
This parallel hadith explains that the majority of the inhabitants of hell are women because they are ungrateful and harsh towards their husbands. There is no word about the husbands’ ingratitude and harshness. It should be noted that some Muslim missionaries and polemicists assert that since women make up the majority of the world, it only stands to reason that they would be the majority in hell. In reply, however, this misses the point—and may miss the possibility that women may be more spiritual than men. Regardless, the reason that women make up the majority in hell is their harshness and ingratitude. So it has nothing to do with a mathematical majority. Islam clearly does not honor women.
See this article for details on women in Islamic hell.
Muhammad was also superstitious (see here for the evidence). This next hadith says that women are part of an evil omen.
I heard the Prophet saying. "Evil omen is in three things: The horse, the woman and the house." (Bukhari)
Here is the back-up article. This one is too (scroll down to the Endnotes and see the brief discussion about Muslim women in hell).
8. A male gets a double share of the inheritance over that of a female.
The Quran in Sura 4:11 says:
The share of the male shall be twice that of a female . . . . (Maududi, vol. 1, p. 311)
For how this religious law works out in early Islam, see these hadith here and here and here.
Malik (d. 795) is a founder of a major school of law. He composed a law book that is also considered a collection of reliable hadith: Al-Muwatta of Imam Malik ibn Anas: The First Formation of Islamic Law (rev. trans. Aisha Bewley, Inverness, Scotland: Madina Press, 1989, 2001). Malik writes:
The generally agreed upon way of doing things among us . . . about fixed shares of inheritance (fara’id) of children from the mother or father when one or the other dies is that if they leave male and female children, the male takes the portion of two females.
This Islamic law is regressive. But in the US, for example, the inheritance is divided equally among all siblings, regardless of the gender. No religious law prohibits this from happening in advance. So American secular law fits into a modern context better, where women have more economic opportunities and freedom.
This online booklet has a short explanation on women’s inheritance "rights." Click on Chapter 15.
Along with the previous link, here is the back-up article.
7. A woman’s testimony counts half of a man’s testimony.
The Quran in Sura 2:282 says:
And let two men from among you bear witness to all such documents [contracts of loans without interest]. But if two men be not available, there should be one man and two women to bear witness so that if one of the women forgets (anything), the other may remind her. (Maududi, vol. 1, p. 205).
It seems that the foundational reason for having two women witnesses is that one of the women may "forget" something. This goes to the nature of womankind. Philosophers teach us that one of the main differences between animals and humans lies in humankind’s rationality. But this verse implies that a woman’s mind is weak.
This hadith removes any ambiguity about women’s abilities in Sura 2:282:
The Prophet said, "Isn’t the witness of a woman equal to half of that of a man?" The women said, "Yes." He said, "This is because of the deficiency of a woman’s mind." (Bukhari, emphasis added)
Here is the back-up article, and so is this one. This article too explains Islam’s view on women’s mental inabilities (scroll down to "Women Are Inferior to Men"), citing many hadith and Muslim commentators.
6. A wife may remarry her ex-husband if and only if she marries another man, they have sex, and then this second man divorces her.
The Quran in Sura 2:230 says:
And if the husband divorces his wife (for the third time), she shall not remain his lawful wife after this (absolute) divorce, unless she marries another husband and the second husband divorces her. (In that case) there is no harm if they [the first couple] remarry . . . . (Maududi, vol. 1, p. 165)
The finally and absolutely divorced couple is not permitted to remarry each other unless she marries another man, they have sex, and he divorces her. Sura 2:230 engenders a divorce on the road to a possible reconciliation. Why should it be necessary to have the intervening steps of a second marriage and divorce before the first couple can work out their differences and get back together?
10. A husband has sex with his wife, as a plow goes into a dirt field.
The Quran in Sura (Chapter) 2:223 says:
Your women are your fields, so go into your fields whichever way you like . . . . (MAS Abdel Haleem, The Qur’an, Oxford UP, 2004)
We should make no mistake about this verse. It includes sexual positions. In a footnote to this verse, Haleem says that Muslims in Medina heard from the Jews that "a child born from a woman approached from behind would have a squint."
The hadith are the reports of Muhammad’s words and actions outside of the Quran. Two reliable hadith collectors and editors are Bukhari (d. 870), Muslim (d. 875). After the Quran, the hadith come second in importance and sacredness among the vast majority of Muslims around the world.
Since the hadith is explicit, the readers are invited to click here and read for themselves, at their own discretion: Muslim nos. 3363-3365.
See these parallel hadith here and here.
We should have no doubt that the husband controlled their sex life. If a woman does not want to have sex, then angels curse her.
. . . "If a man invites his wife to sleep with him and she refuses to come to him, then the angels send their curses on her till morning." (Bukhari)
Here is the back-up article. This one also provides back up material. See the section at the beginning "Women Are Men’s Property."
9. Husbands are a degree above their wives.
The Quran in Sura 2:228 says:
. . . Wives have the same rights as the husbands have on them in accordance with the generally known principles. Of course, men are a degree above them in status . . . (Sayyid Abul A’La Maududi, The Meaning of the Qur’an, vol. 1, p. 165)
Gender inequality shows up in a theological context. This hadith shows that the majority of the inhabitants of hell are women.
The Prophet said, "I looked at Paradise and found poor people forming the majority of its inhabitants; and I looked at Hell and saw that the majority of its inhabitants were women." (Bukhari, emphasis added; see also these parallel traditions here and here.)
This parallel hadith explains that the majority of the inhabitants of hell are women because they are ungrateful and harsh towards their husbands. There is no word about the husbands’ ingratitude and harshness. It should be noted that some Muslim missionaries and polemicists assert that since women make up the majority of the world, it only stands to reason that they would be the majority in hell. In reply, however, this misses the point—and may miss the possibility that women may be more spiritual than men. Regardless, the reason that women make up the majority in hell is their harshness and ingratitude. So it has nothing to do with a mathematical majority. Islam clearly does not honor women.
See this article for details on women in Islamic hell.
Muhammad was also superstitious (see here for the evidence). This next hadith says that women are part of an evil omen.
I heard the Prophet saying. "Evil omen is in three things: The horse, the woman and the house." (Bukhari)
Here is the back-up article. This one is too (scroll down to the Endnotes and see the brief discussion about Muslim women in hell).
8. A male gets a double share of the inheritance over that of a female.
The Quran in Sura 4:11 says:
The share of the male shall be twice that of a female . . . . (Maududi, vol. 1, p. 311)
For how this religious law works out in early Islam, see these hadith here and here and here.
Malik (d. 795) is a founder of a major school of law. He composed a law book that is also considered a collection of reliable hadith: Al-Muwatta of Imam Malik ibn Anas: The First Formation of Islamic Law (rev. trans. Aisha Bewley, Inverness, Scotland: Madina Press, 1989, 2001). Malik writes:
The generally agreed upon way of doing things among us . . . about fixed shares of inheritance (fara’id) of children from the mother or father when one or the other dies is that if they leave male and female children, the male takes the portion of two females.
This Islamic law is regressive. But in the US, for example, the inheritance is divided equally among all siblings, regardless of the gender. No religious law prohibits this from happening in advance. So American secular law fits into a modern context better, where women have more economic opportunities and freedom.
This online booklet has a short explanation on women’s inheritance "rights." Click on Chapter 15.
Along with the previous link, here is the back-up article.
7. A woman’s testimony counts half of a man’s testimony.
The Quran in Sura 2:282 says:
And let two men from among you bear witness to all such documents [contracts of loans without interest]. But if two men be not available, there should be one man and two women to bear witness so that if one of the women forgets (anything), the other may remind her. (Maududi, vol. 1, p. 205).
It seems that the foundational reason for having two women witnesses is that one of the women may "forget" something. This goes to the nature of womankind. Philosophers teach us that one of the main differences between animals and humans lies in humankind’s rationality. But this verse implies that a woman’s mind is weak.
This hadith removes any ambiguity about women’s abilities in Sura 2:282:
The Prophet said, "Isn’t the witness of a woman equal to half of that of a man?" The women said, "Yes." He said, "This is because of the deficiency of a woman’s mind." (Bukhari, emphasis added)
Here is the back-up article, and so is this one. This article too explains Islam’s view on women’s mental inabilities (scroll down to "Women Are Inferior to Men"), citing many hadith and Muslim commentators.
6. A wife may remarry her ex-husband if and only if she marries another man, they have sex, and then this second man divorces her.
The Quran in Sura 2:230 says:
And if the husband divorces his wife (for the third time), she shall not remain his lawful wife after this (absolute) divorce, unless she marries another husband and the second husband divorces her. (In that case) there is no harm if they [the first couple] remarry . . . . (Maududi, vol. 1, p. 165)
The finally and absolutely divorced couple is not permitted to remarry each other unless she marries another man, they have sex, and he divorces her. Sura 2:230 engenders a divorce on the road to a possible reconciliation. Why should it be necessary to have the intervening steps of a second marriage and divorce before the first couple can work out their differences and get back together?
Originally posted by Lemon.Fresh
"It is written in the Holy Qur'an that God granted the Land of Israel to the Children of Israel and ordered them to settle therein (Qur'an, Sura 5:21) and that before the Last Day He will bring the Children of Israel to retake possession of their Land, gathering them from all different countries and nations (Qu'ran, Sura 17:104). Consequently, as a Muslim who abides by the Qur'an, I believe that opposing the existence of the State of Israel means opposing a Divine decree."-Sheik Abdul Paleizo
So why are the Muslims (in general, obviously) so hell bent on getting rid of Israel, if Allah has ordained that Israel would retake the Holy Land that He has given to them?
Hell bent? A little strong, didn't you think? Muslims (Iran) hate ZIONISM. Zionism is a political movement, not a religious one, and it is the reason why Israel is so aggressive against...everyone. Of course, few Israeli supporters can distinguish between pro-Israel and pro-Zionism
Lastly, note the quote "...I believe taht opposing the existence of the State of Israel..." Why when concerned about Israel do people always go extreme and believe the goal is to wipe Israel off the map? It is Israel's zionist policies that is the problem.
No one is trying to wipe out the existence of Israel but like always - anyone criticism of Israel will incite extremism in language and action from those who are pro-Zionist.
edit on 29-3-2011 by DevilJin because: (no reason given)
reply to post by Burgo
Yes. To me and many, many others it means nothing. but I geuss what everyone else thinks doesn't matter to the masters of Israel.
edit on 29-3-2011 by Darkmask because: (no reason given)
Originally posted by zroth
reply to post by Lemon.Fresh
Perhaps the Israel that was artificially created is not actually the land God was talking about.
No, God is very specific.
Here is a map of what God told Moses was the promised land.
Originally posted by Darkmask
Just because a book says that God gave the jews Isreal, doesn't give them a legitimate claim to the land. Just like the Holy Bible, it's all just a bunch of stories. It means nothing.edit on 29-3-2011 by Darkmask because: spelling
To you, maybe. To others, their religious books mean everything.
Originally posted by BiGGz
I'm glad you decided to copy/paste some other users post. But I did a little more digging for you:
I copy pasted off myself.
. . .
Please understand, the verse simply explains the Exodus. Yes, the Israelis (according to folklore) were given the Land of Israel by God. And yes the Qur'an tells the same story of Moses and the Israelites. But what you are forgetting is when Moses and the Jews made the covenant with God, God told them if they did not follow the commandments they would be banished from the promised land.
Please review the follow excerpt taken from 2 Kings 17:18-20
. . .
Yes, I understand that.
But does the Quran not say, as evidenced in my OP, that Israel would return in the last days to reclaim the land?
It says:
Sura 17:104 - And we said to the Children of Israel afterwards, “Go live into this land. When the final prophecy comes to pass, we will summon you all in one group.”‘
So according to the Qur'an, the Bible, and the Torah, yes the Israel was Gods gift to the Jews. But because the Jews did not follow their lord and savior they were banished for the rest of eternity. And since then, Muslims have inhabited the area.edit on 29-3-2011 by BiGGz because: (no reason given)
Wrong. All three books say that Israel will return to its land that God promised.
And mind you . . .
I did not just randomly select a verse and start in on Muslims. This is coming from a Sheik.
edit on 3/29/2011 by Lemon.Fresh because: (no
reason given)
God and I talk regularly. She often asks why so many people choose to put a cross on their sword, or their tanks, or their fighter jets.
I remind her that they are fighting and killing for peace. I also remind her that many kill for less, and she has to admit that is true. Killers come in all shapes, sizes, colors, creeds....
Then she asks how the Native Americans are doing, and I tell her that no one much cares. They are mostly dead. It is all "Israel", and the middle east. Even Japan will fade, but Israel won't.
She then tells me I am as cynical as ever, and I agree. I tell her she is as misunderstood as ever, and she says yes, but it is her own fault. She never could relate to humans.
Then she swims off, or flies off, or I let her go.
I remind her that they are fighting and killing for peace. I also remind her that many kill for less, and she has to admit that is true. Killers come in all shapes, sizes, colors, creeds....
Then she asks how the Native Americans are doing, and I tell her that no one much cares. They are mostly dead. It is all "Israel", and the middle east. Even Japan will fade, but Israel won't.
She then tells me I am as cynical as ever, and I agree. I tell her she is as misunderstood as ever, and she says yes, but it is her own fault. She never could relate to humans.
Then she swims off, or flies off, or I let her go.
Originally posted by Lemon.Fresh
I copy pasted off myself.
Yea, I re corrected myself. I seen your post elsewhere, and hadn't taken notice of your name
Originally posted by Lemon.Fresh
Yes, I understand that.
But does the Quran not say, as evidenced in my OP, that Israel would return in the last days to reclaim the land?
Ok, I'm not to good when it comes to religion so I'll give it my best.
The whole story starts with the 12 tribes of Israel. Jacobs children: Judah, Reuben, Dan, Asher, Levi, Naphtali, Simeon, Gad, Issachar, Zebulun, Joseph and Benjamin. Because of famine in Judea, they moved south to Egypt. There they grew from around 80 to 400,000 strong. The Egyptian pharaoh was alarmed by this, and enslaved the Jewish community. That's when Moses comes into play, saves them, and brings them to the promised land.
So again, your verse describes the exodus of the Jews, and the Kingdom of Israel that was established there-after.
Again, I'm not a genius when it comes to religion. I don't follow any faith but humanism, so my knowledge is limited. But this is what I know, and have been told. If I'm wrong, don't shoot me
Originally posted by Lemon.Fresh
Wrong. All three books say that Israel will return to its land that God promised.
Were does it say that? Because very clearly in 2nd Kings 17:18-20 it says that the Israelis had their chance, but f*'d up
edit on
29-3-2011 by BiGGz because: (no reason given)
reply to post by BiGGz
Quran:
Sura 17:104 And We said unto the Children of Israel after him: Dwell in the land; but when the promise of the Hereafter cometh to pass We shall bring you as a crowd gathered out of various nations.
Torah/Bible:
Deuteronomy 30
1 And it shall come to pass, when all these things are come upon thee, the blessing and the curse, which I have set before thee, and thou shalt call them to mind among all the nations, whither Jehovah thy God hath driven thee, 2 and shalt return unto Jehovah thy God, and shalt obey his voice according to all that I command thee this day, thou and thy children, with all thy heart, and with all thy soul; 3 that then Jehovah thy God will turn thy captivity, and have compassion upon thee, and will return and gather thee from all the peoples, whither Jehovah thy God hath scattered thee. 4 If any of thine outcasts be in the uttermost parts of heaven, from thence will Jehovah thy God gather thee, and from thence will he fetch thee: 5 and Jehovah thy God will bring thee into the land which thy fathers possessed, and thou shalt possess it; and he will do thee good, and multiply thee above thy fathers.
Quran:
Sura 17:104 And We said unto the Children of Israel after him: Dwell in the land; but when the promise of the Hereafter cometh to pass We shall bring you as a crowd gathered out of various nations.
Torah/Bible:
Deuteronomy 30
1 And it shall come to pass, when all these things are come upon thee, the blessing and the curse, which I have set before thee, and thou shalt call them to mind among all the nations, whither Jehovah thy God hath driven thee, 2 and shalt return unto Jehovah thy God, and shalt obey his voice according to all that I command thee this day, thou and thy children, with all thy heart, and with all thy soul; 3 that then Jehovah thy God will turn thy captivity, and have compassion upon thee, and will return and gather thee from all the peoples, whither Jehovah thy God hath scattered thee. 4 If any of thine outcasts be in the uttermost parts of heaven, from thence will Jehovah thy God gather thee, and from thence will he fetch thee: 5 and Jehovah thy God will bring thee into the land which thy fathers possessed, and thou shalt possess it; and he will do thee good, and multiply thee above thy fathers.
Originally posted by Lemon.Fresh
"It is written in the Holy Qur'an that God granted the Land of Israel to the Children of Israel and ordered them to settle therein (Qur'an, Sura 5:21) and that before the Last Day He will bring the Children of Israel to retake possession of their Land, gathering them from all different countries and nations (Qu'ran, Sura 17:104). Consequently, as a Muslim who abides by the Qur'an, I believe that opposing the existence of the State of Israel means opposing a Divine decree."-Sheik Abdul Paleizo
So why are the Muslims (in general, obviously) so hell bent on getting rid of Israel, if Allah has ordained that Israel would retake the Holy Land that He has given to them?
This is absolutely true. I've posted on this elsewhere and have checked the facts - and the Koran - and it is indisputably correct.
I'll tell you why the Muslims are having a hard time accepting this:
In ancient times, and today to a lesser extent, it was custom for the first-born to receive the "birthright," or the majority of the inheritance. Abraham is the undisputed progenitor of both the Arabs and the Jews, having two sons: Ishmael and Issac. Ishmael, the father of the Arab peoples was born first, and Issac, the father of the Jewish people was second-born. According to the custom of the area and time, Ishmael should have received the birthright due to the first-born; but that was not God's plan.
Abraham's wife Sarah was barren and had given Abraham no children, so in order for him to have an heir, she sent her Egyptian slave Hagar into Abraham so that they would have sex and he could procreate through her. But God had promised Abraham - and Sarah - a miracle; telling them that Sarah, at 90-years-old, would conceive a child who was to be named Issac. For His own reason, to fulfill His plan, God told Abraham that the covenant He had made with him (to make Abraham's descendants God's "Chosen People) would be carried on with Issac - NOT Ishmael. My own theory is that God wanted His "Chosen People" to be descended from a marriage rather than a surrogate pregnancy with a slave. Not only that, but a 90-year-old woman getting pregnant? Yeah, that's a miracle in itself.
Anyway, once Issac was born Sarah saw how Hagar was scheming to have HER son receive the birthright which she felt he rightfully deserved - completely ignoring what God had told Abraham - so Sarah told Abraham to send Hagar and Ishmael away, which he did. However, like any father who loved his son, Abraham was worried about Ishmael and asked God to protect him. God promised that Ishmael would be the "father of a great nation," but that the birthright - and God's covenant with Abraham - belonged to Issac.
Apparently tradition is very strong in the Middle-East; so much so that the Arabs have been butthurt this entire time, angry that Ishmael was "robbed" of his first-born birthright. They seem to forget the fact that God's will trumps local custom every time!
This Muslim cleric is the FIRST HONEST MUSLIM I have ever seen. I say this because the Koran DOES say that Israel - the descendants of Issac - are God's "Chosen People." Any Muslim who denies this simple truth either does not know his/her Koran very well, or like Mohammed and those Muslims who seek to destroy the Jews, they are lying to themselves and purposely defying God's will.
By the way: God's covenant with Abraham promises all of the land from the Nile to the Euphrates to the Jews. The tiny sliver of land that they currently hold is only a very tiny portion of the land God promised to Abraham and his son Issac's descendants. If I were Muslim, I'd get over this little sibling rivalry and do what God wants them to do. He has a way of getting what He wants in the end, and it's not a good idea to willfully defy Him.
Originally posted by Darkmask
Just because a book says that God gave the jews Isreal, doesn't give them a legitimate claim to the land. Just like the Holy Bible, it's all just a bunch of stories. It means nothing.edit on 29-3-2011 by Darkmask because: spelling
It may mean nothing to you, but the Jews and Arabs take it VERY seriously.
Why is this lost on people?
reply to post by OldCorp
Well, so much for "chosen people." The New Testament also talks about the Pharisees and references such conflict. What's so important about them is that they are the group that became and started modern (Rabbinic) Judaism. They denied Jesus and they denied Muhammed too it seems, so I feel it's a lot more than this "sibling rivalry" you're talking about.
Gospel of Thomas
39. Jesus said, "The Pharisees and the scholars have taken the keys of knowledge and have hidden them. They have not entered nor have they allowed those who want to enter to do so. As for you, be as sly as snakes and as simple as doves."
102. Jesus said, "Damn the Pharisees! They are like a dog sleeping in the cattle manger: the dog neither eats nor [lets] the cattle eat."
Well, so much for "chosen people." The New Testament also talks about the Pharisees and references such conflict. What's so important about them is that they are the group that became and started modern (Rabbinic) Judaism. They denied Jesus and they denied Muhammed too it seems, so I feel it's a lot more than this "sibling rivalry" you're talking about.
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