Casting Call: Survival documentary turns to ATS for experts...

Originally posted by Advantage
SOme modern varieties are not bolters, but they ARE gmo

Not likely. Highly unlikely in fact. Currently the only GM seed available is for commercial growers. Mainly, wheat, maize, cotton and rice. Unless expressly packaged as GM seed, it is illegal to both buy and sell it. You need a licence for both in fact. The seed that you buy in the little packets from the garden centre, online or direct from the producer may not be organic, but they are certainly not genetically modified either.

Heirloom seeds, generally or for marketing purposes, refer to seeds adapted to and collected from, the region that they are most suitable. The Bok choys that don't bolt have simply been crossed and selected to eliminate those traits, but because it is hybrid seed, those traits may not be passed onto to the progeny in open pollination, that is why Heritage seeds are better, you can harvest the seeds and get a reliable facimile of what you got the year before...as long as no one is growing too many pollinating hybrids around you that is. Most of the foods that we eat are hybrids developed through selective crossing, that is not the same as genetic modification. You do not need to worry about the seed you buy in the shops being genetically modified unless you are an industrial scale producer (or a subsistence farmer in the third world, but that's another story). Once established, or experienced, your way is the best way, but for those starting out, I'm fairly new to vegetable growing myself, just my third year this one, any seeds will do. Just getting started on the practice is the main thing, because the supermarket shelves ARE stocked with GMO derived food from those industrial producers

I wasn;t going to post but I have got to say "where is the love people?".
To those of you who actually have knowledge and skill, don't you think you could help someone else out?
What if what you taught on a tv show saved someone's life?
Would that be worth doing or would you be "showing the evil government your hand?"
Trust me, if they have lists YOU'RE ALREADY ON IT.

I've spent 30 years working hard on this stuff and guess what?
I'm glad to share with others because it just might make a difference and since I already know I'm on a list I DON'T CARE!
If you limit what you say because of fear of the government then you have already surrendered your 1st amendment rights.
Is there a real person hiding behind that avatar and if so -
Which side are you on?

reply to post by DaddyBare


You are absolutely right, mother earth news is an excellent resource and self suffiency is exactly our target. I will be looking into the Asian greens as a stop gap measure. All of our "landscaping" is done with an eye towards self sufficiency too. Why put useless hedges in when you can use wild climbing roses that provide vitamin c rich rose hips? Why spray poison all over your yard to kill plantains when they are a very effective antibiotic? There are hundreds of similar things that can be done simply and inexpensively. I read somewhere once that humans are the only animal who change their habitat to be LESS conducive to sustaining life. When I look around at the manicured lawns with ornamental landscaping I am always reminded of that quote. I am really excited to see what they do with this program. I hope it isn't a mockumentary, I will be very disappointed.

Originally posted by KilgoreTrout

Originally posted by Advantage
SOme modern varieties are not bolters, but they ARE gmo

Not likely. Highly unlikely in fact. Currently the only GM seed available is for commercial growers. Mainly, wheat, maize, cotton and rice. Unless expressly packaged as GM seed, it is illegal to both buy and sell it. You need a licence for both in fact. The seed that you buy in the little packets from the garden centre, online or direct from the producer may not be organic, but they are certainly not genetically modified either.

Heirloom seeds, generally or for marketing purposes, refer to seeds adapted to and collected from, the region that they are most suitable. The Bok choys that don't bolt have simply been crossed and selected to eliminate those traits, but because it is hybrid seed, those traits may not be passed onto to the progeny in open pollination, that is why Heritage seeds are better, you can harvest the seeds and get a reliable facimile of what you got the year before...as long as no one is growing too many pollinating hybrids around you that is. Most of the foods that we eat are hybrids developed through selective crossing, that is not the same as genetic modification. You do not need to worry about the seed you buy in the shops being genetically modified unless you are an industrial scale producer (or a subsistence farmer in the third world, but that's another story). Once established, or experienced, your way is the best way, but for those starting out, I'm fairly knew to vegetable growing myself, just my third year this one, any seeds will do. Just getting started on the practice is the main thing, because the supermarket shelves ARE stocked with GMO derived food from those industrial producers

The word Im hearing on the Bok CHoy that wasnt from our co-op was that it was definitely GMO.. that it was modified for slow bolt and etc for our climate.. that it got into our seed banks from asian sources when grown in California and cross pollinated.

Originally posted by Advantage
The word Im hearing on the Bok CHoy that wasnt from our co-op was that it was definitely GMO.. that it was modified for slow bolt and etc for our climate.. that it got into our seed banks from asian sources when grown in California and cross pollinated.

GM seed takes millions and millions of pounds to develop. One of the key characteristics of GM seed is that it does not reproduce, it cannot, in other words, pollinate or be pollinated. They wouldn't recoup otherwise.

Sub-urban myths I would guess.

Originally posted by SkepticOverlord

Originally posted by -W1LL
there is a big chance here for a Mock-U-mentary.

We would not be doing this if there was such a risk.

Sorry, it's Hollyweird. Been there done that.
You cannot trust them until it has already been aired.
You will not be given any kind of editorial control what so ever.
I am on IMDB as a writer and executive producer. Have many friends
in the system including one of the producers of Survivor. They can
twist the tale anyway the Executives like it to be.

Given the timing, it's about time to come out with people "Preppers" for 2012. I have seen internal
listings looking for these types of shows.

Originally posted by Asktheanimals
I wasn;t going to post but I have got to say "where is the love people?".
To those of you who actually have knowledge and skill, don't you think you could help someone else out?
What if what you taught on a tv show saved someone's life?
Would that be worth doing or would you be "showing the evil government your hand?"
Trust me, if they have lists YOU'RE ALREADY ON IT.

I've spent 30 years working hard on this stuff and guess what?
I'm glad to share with others because it just might make a difference and since I already know I'm on a list I DON'T CARE!
If you limit what you say because of fear of the government then you have already surrendered your 1st amendment rights.
Is there a real person hiding behind that avatar and if so -
Which side are you on?

edit on 29-3-2011 by Asktheanimals because: corrections

ATA... the issue is will the information be presented correctly and in a sense that will actually help others.. especially since it it what ATS will forever be linked to. I already stated that I worked on a case several yrs ago for a particular program on the discovery channel.. and ALL of the information that was true and documented was completely disregarded and they went with the lies and sensationalism.Promoting disinformation and lies.. it has to be taken into account sine they absolutely have proven its not unheard of for them to do it ( or exploit a woman with severe mental illness and destroy a property owner's potential income and reputation).. which lead to a book, being written to perpetuate the lies and appearance on the discovery channel touted as its "cred" . I offered to give SO details so he can confirm. DC doesnt seem to always care about the validity of any of the shows it has on under its blanket name compared to the money and viewership.

Its also all of our personal choice if we wish to hang out necks out with what we have personally been doing along with preparedness/survival.... which may not be the smartest thing to throw a spotlight on if we wish to maintain being a position to help others in certain circumstances. There are many here who hold positions in local and federal govt that work from the inside. They can not be asked to reveal themselves nor shamed for refusing to do so.

Originally posted by KilgoreTrout

Originally posted by Advantage
The word Im hearing on the Bok CHoy that wasnt from our co-op was that it was definitely GMO.. that it was modified for slow bolt and etc for our climate.. that it got into our seed banks from asian sources when grown in California and cross pollinated.

GM seed takes millions and millions of pounds to develop. One of the key characteristics of GM seed is that it does not reproduce, it cannot, in other words, pollinate or be pollinated. They wouldn't recoup otherwise.

Sub-urban myths I would guess.

I guess you haven't heard of Monsanto suing Farmers.

Apparently they have "seed police" that scour the countryside and coops and they sue farmers that are benefitting from their seed manipulation without actually making a purchase.

Wind Drift, Birds, and cross-pollination are all contributory factors to farmers lands being infiltrated by GMO seeds, and then Monsanto wanting a piece of that profit.

Monsanto has sued many a farmer when their GM crops have turned up on the farmer's fields even though the farmers say they never planted them (examples [1] [2]). Farmers who get into the Roundup-Ready (RR) System lose their independence, and are obliged to sign a lengthy and restrictive agreement. [3]. What's more Monsanto contracts out to private investigation firms like Pinkerton, to regularly check up on their farmers (and independent, non-GM farmers as well), taking samples unannounced from their fields to make sure they are not in violation [4] [5]. It also maintains a hotline so farmers can turn in their neighbors for suspected violations.

According to Monsanto vs. U.S. Farmers Monsanto pursues hundreds of new investigative leads a year, 600 in 2003 for example, aimed at farmers.

Originally posted by KilgoreTrout

Originally posted by Advantage
The word Im hearing on the Bok CHoy that wasnt from our co-op was that it was definitely GMO.. that it was modified for slow bolt and etc for our climate.. that it got into our seed banks from asian sources when grown in California and cross pollinated.

GM seed takes millions and millions of pounds to develop. One of the key characteristics of GM seed is that it does not reproduce, it cannot, in other words, pollinate or be pollinated. They wouldn't recoup otherwise.

Sub-urban myths I would guess.

Whatever you say... read up some more. You are aware that genetic modification isnt a one stop shop right? We do it for hardiness, climate, etc etc etc.. and by far not all are sterile or non pollinators.
Tell that to things that dont only bolt inappropriately and are stunted.. but add into that no or low yeilds and deformed produce. It must be magic because only large cash crops are modified, right? Funny how all that GM corn cross pollinated and got into neighboring crops.. and samples are taken to make sure farmers arent growing patented seeds. Better tell them that its a myth and they shouldnt be spending all that money on testing and getting rid of seed washers.

reply to post by getreadyalready


Cross posted.. your post is better.

reply to post by getreadyalready


Another issue is pseudo-domestication, that may lead a seed to revert and the occasional pollinator to occur, that though, if you read through the whole of the link does not seem to be the issue here, though Monsanto are clearly very proactive in ensuring that they spot that when it happens. This seems to be more of a boundary issue with regards to individual contracted growers, ie they signed an agreement to only sow a specified acreage and exceeded that, or seeds that have blown into neighbouring properties during sowing.

Originally posted by Asktheanimals
I wasn;t going to post but I have got to say "where is the love people?".
To those of you who actually have knowledge and skill, don't you think you could help someone else out?
What if what you taught on a tv show saved someone's life?
Would that be worth doing or would you be "showing the evil government your hand?"
Trust me, if they have lists YOU'RE ALREADY ON IT.

I've spent 30 years working hard on this stuff and guess what?
I'm glad to share with others because it just might make a difference and since I already know I'm on a list I DON'T CARE!
If you limit what you say because of fear of the government then you have already surrendered your 1st amendment rights.
Is there a real person hiding behind that avatar and if so -
Which side are you on?

edit on 29-3-2011 by Asktheanimals because: corrections

Don't know the others that are not for this project, but I do know myself...it is not out of FEAR of the government...that I could care less...I'm all for others learning what they need to know to survive...but there are too many variables, including in a survival situation...those that do not have will take from those that do...and letting those who are too lazy to learn what to do, take from us that do know what to do by making it easier to find us just adds to the difficulties of surviving.

There will always be the human factor that will feel their survival will depend on TAKING what they want from those they perceive weaker than them. Not fearful of them...but would rather be invisible to them...to be able to move unseen in a crowd, to blend in with nature...that should be the goal for survival of the like minded.

Again, good luck with the project and for those that choose to participate, I hope you can reach some of those that choose other ways to survive.

Im absolutely surrounded by contract farmers. I see it plenty.. small scale farmers versus contractors. Its not only the crops you listed.. and certainly they are not sterile as you maintained. The organic farm a little less than a mile from me has issues and will this season once again. They grow produce of all kinds... including the even smaller scale things my neighbors and I grow. GM corn or soy isnt the same as GM tomatoes and peas. Genetic modification is done for a plethora of reasons and in a plethora of manners. The seeds you buy in the store are most definitely modified. The first GM seeds hit the market in 1938.. and they werent sterile. Patented GM seeds are not sold to home growers.. thats obvious.. and should have been since we were talking about home or small scale gardens. Hybrids are genetically modified and sold daily to home gardeners.

The BS youre talking about is the seed catalogs selling "organic" seeds.. including hybrid mods.. that arent monsanto patented seeds. There is a terminology issue that I guess some folks still dont get when they claim none of our seeds are genetically modified.

Originally posted by Advantage
Whatever you say... read up some more. You are aware that genetic modification isnt a one stop shop right? We do it for hardiness, climate, etc etc etc.. and by far not all are sterile or non pollinators.

Tell that to things that dont only bolt inappropriately and are stunted.. but add into that no or low yeilds and deformed produce. It must be magic because only large cash crops are modified, right? Funny how all that GM corn cross pollinated and got into neighboring crops.. and samples are taken to make sure farmers arent growing patented seeds. Better tell them that its a myth and they shouldnt be spending all that money on testing and getting rid of seed washers.

Yes, they take samples, they are required by law to do so. That is also the agreement that the farmers sign when they agree to grow the seed. Yes, plants are being genetically modified, but there are also very strict guidelines on how those GMO can be introduced to the environment, and while there are lapses of those protocols, one of the few areas that is most strictly monitored by independent bodies are the plants that we rely on in our food chain.

Have you read William Engdahl's Seeds of Destruction? The fact that Monsanto's seed doesn't pollinate is one of the great problems that we currently face not the other way around.

Why don't you hand the seed in question into your federal office? They can test it for you and will be able to confirm whether it contains GM material, in fact any number of private biotech firms would be able to do that for you...if you don't trust the government

reply to post by KilgoreTrout

Do you understand the difference between a patented GM seed and a modified seed?


Look it up and be condescending later.. I gotta go chat.

Originally posted by Advantage
reply to post by KilgoreTrout

 

Do you understand the difference between a patented GM seed and a modified seed?

I don't know...what does it mean?

I see. From your edit you have decided to flounce out. That's one way to conclude a discussion I suppose, if you can't admit to being incorrect. I wasn't being condescending, I was being factual and not relying on gossip for my information. But there you go, there are those that chat...bless!

Originally posted by Advantage


Im absolutely surrounded by contract farmers. I see it plenty.. small scale farmers versus contractors. Its not only the crops you listed.. and certainly they are not sterile as you maintained. The organic farm a little less than a mile from me has issues and will this season once again. They grow produce of all kinds... including the even smaller scale things my neighbors and I grow. GM corn or soy isnt the same as GM tomatoes and peas. Genetic modification is done for a plethora of reasons and in a plethora of manners. The seeds you buy in the store are most definitely modified. The first GM seeds hit the market in 1938.. and they werent sterile. Patented GM seeds are not sold to home growers.. thats obvious.. and should have been since we were talking about home or small scale gardens. Hybrids are genetically modified and sold daily to home gardeners.

The BS youre talking about is the seed catalogs selling "organic" seeds.. including hybrid mods.. that arent monsanto patented seeds. There is a terminology issue that I guess some folks still dont get when they claim none of our seeds are genetically modified.

We could not genetically modify seeds in 1938, the process wasn't developed. What happened in 1938 was that crosses and hybrids could be patented and commercially exploited. Very different thing. Everything, practically, every vegetable that you grow in your garden was at one point in it's development hybridised, it is just that they didn't have to register with and pay a patent to sell it. Which is one of the reasons Heritage lines are so popular because you don't have to pay 'copyright' on them.

I'm not trying to be condescending, that is your interpretation, I am merely trying to explain the difference to you and to others that it is okay to buy seed from the shops. Just as it is equally okay and in fact preferable to collect your own seed, which you can also do with the seed you buy from the shop, and use it the next year. It is not genetically modified, it has been selectively bred, but so has everything, it is why we are here as we are today, the domestication of food crops.

I apologise if I appeared condescending.

isn't it funny how they're doing a documentary of this nature with everything going on ?? i think this is the sign that we've all been waiting for that the government will show us when we are to prepare for what's to come
all of this is a little too coincidental

reply to post by SkepticOverlord


Anyone who knows diddly about survival is not going to go on some "reality show" and give it all up to bask in a little TV glow/15min of fame.

This is not a good idea. In fact it is IMO a very, very dumb idea.

This type of show will be instructional video for all of those who chose the "grasshopper" instead of the "ant" mentality. They will then try to take your stuff that you ernestly packed away wisely.

And further instructions for those who don't want the ants to exist at all.....

reply to post by Advantage


Thanks for the tip and yes, I'm well aware of what editors and "spin" can do,
But basic information still needs to presented if it's going to have a chance to see daylight.
You're probably right though, the truth can be boring and too simple to be entertaining.
Small wonder the "real stuff"ends up on the cutting room floor.
I have my intentions and they have theirs.
I still feel it my duty to try, beyond that it won't be my fault.
Great response though, much appreciated

I've been trying to wrap my head around this one and cannot for the life of me see what good it would do at all. I don't see how they could create such a show without casting a negative, "mocking" light on the people who are preparing for disaster, for one. Second, even if they didn't come right out and tell people your name and location it would be easy enough to deduce. Especially if the show caught on and the people in your immediate surroundings realized it was you on the show. It's the sorta' thing that would be extremely hard to keep secret.

Good luck to anyone who is considering doing this, but I think it's a bad idea.