Not your typical Chemtrail thread

Originally posted by coyotepoet
reply to post by Aloysius the Gaul

 

Religon - humanity's first, longest running, and least successful attempt at geo-engineering!!

Believe it or not, I see what you are trying to say with this. However, the very word engineering implies being active. Geoengineering is therefore an active attempt at changing the atmosphere and weather.

People are still praying for rain, for sun, for warmth, etc all around the world arent' they - so in what way is it not active?

What you suggest is merely primitive people's way of understanding the weather, not attempting to control it.

No - what I am saying is that religion is the world's first, longest running and least successful attempt at geoengineering.....oh yeah - that's what I said.......


Of course it has nothing to do with the chemtrail hoax, but I thought I shuold point it out.

Still, it's wise to focus on what can be scientifically argued.

It sure would - shame it hasn't happened!!

Adn this thread is quite specifically about SPECULATION.....

Originally posted by MathiasAndrew
coyotepoet

well said. I wanted this thread to try and focus more on the theories that are out there more than I wanted reasons why they might or might not be true. I wanted to see what themes or theories were the most repeated ones. To get an idea of what most people think the reasons that something like this might be happening.

I agree... Don't feed the trolls and they will go elsewhere. Feeding them by getting upset to their obvious techniques only encourages them. Let's keep this thread on track, I find it much more intereseting than most geoengineering threads

No matter how tempting... don't feed the trolls...(I made a little sign as a reminder)
[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/e8316440cc62.png[/atsimg]

Great sign, good work..

Here's a few geoengineering documents from studies done by David Keith .

people.ucalgary.ca...

Important geoengineering videos

Wonderfest 2010: Dare We Try to Engineer Earth's Climate?

fora.tv...

reply to post by MathiasAndrew

I think one more aspect that needs to be looked into more is the connection with insider knowledge of the programs that might be occurring. Why would Monsanto create an aluminum resistant GMO seed if they didn't think it was going to be necessary? To me this shows foresight and knowledge of the project if not some involvement as well.

And the fact that Monsanto is connected to Searle pharma, which is connected to Rummy, absolutely there is foresight and knowledge.

Here's a few quotes from FDR (33 degree mason, you can bet he knew what he was talking about)

“In politics, nothing happens by accident. If it happens, you can bet it was planned that way.”

“The liberty of a democracy is not safe if the people tolerate the growth of private power to a point where it comes stronger than their democratic state itself. That, in its essence, is fascism - ownership of government by an individual, by a group,”

reply to post by coyotepoet


This document IMO is just one small sample of a "smoking gun"

United States Government Accountability Office
Report to the Chairman, Committee on
Science and Technology, House of Representatives
CLIMATE CHANGE
A Coordinated Strategy Could Focus Federal Geoengineering Research and Inform Governance Efforts

www.gao.gov...

EDIT

Council on Foriegn Relations Geoengineering

www.cfr.org...

Originally posted by MathiasAndrew
This document IMO is just one small sample of a "smoking gun"

www.gao.gov...

EDIT

 

Council on Foriegn Relations Geoengineering

www.cfr.org...

edit on 29-3-2011 by MathiasAndrew because: add link

The GAO is telling. We must switch all of the discussion to geoengineering and not chemtrails. This document delinates their aproaches:

A September 2009 study from the Royal Society divided most geoengineering proposals into two main categories: carbon dioxide removal (CDR) and solar radiation management (SRM). CDR addresses what scientists currently view as the root cause of climate change by removingCO2 fromtheatmosphere.9 Forexample,oneapproachtoCDR would be to enhance the biological processes for removal and storage of CO2 bymicroorganismsintheocean.Incontrast,SRM offsets temperature increases by reflecting a small percentage of the sun’s light back into space. For example, one SRM approach would be to add reflective particles to the upper atmosphere to reflect incoming sunlight back into space.

They have tested putting these So2 particles into the air in Canada and found the optimal sizes for spraying them in actual tests. candian study

They also delineate that the dispersal of Sulfur could be through direct injection into the engines... in other words they don't even have to spray nozzles on the outside of the wings, they inject the So2 into the engines. So those geoengineering deniers who suggest that geonengineering can not be done through the contrails are wrong.

In the case of the present system, a significant quantity of sulfuric acid will be stored on the aircraft and ejected into the atmosphere during flight. This liquid could be injected into the engine to provide additional thrust at high altitudes to combat thrust lapse. As discussed in the previous section elevated sulfur content is detrimental to engine com- ponent life, and consequently traditional liquid injection techniques (compressor inlet injection) would not be appropriate for this system. However, some thrust augmentation may be realizable by injecting the sulfuric acid downstream of the turbine, in a manner similar to a modern afterburner. By this approach, to achieve thrust increases the tur- bine exhaust gases must be hot enough to vaporize the sulfuric acid.

reply to post by pianopraze


Thank you for the Aurora report, great job.

More PROOF that "chemtrails", at least the Geoengineering kind, are real.

Originally posted by MathiasAndrew
reply to post by pianopraze

 

Thank you for the Aurora report, great job.

More PROOF that "chemtrails", at least the Geoengineering kind, are real.

You are joking right??

The goal of this study is to use engineering design and cost analysis to determine the
feasibility and cost of a delivering material to the stratosphere for solar radiation management
(SRM). This study does not examine effectiveness or risks of injecting material
into the stratosphere for SRM. Its goal is simply to compare a range of delivery systems
on a single cost basis.

It's a FEASABILITY STUDY fer crike's sake!!

reply to post by Aloysius the Gaul


As I have said before, when you put all the evidence together then there is no doubt that these projects are happening on a large scale basis for studies and testing.

You must be joking if you want to keep suggesting that they're not.

BARIUM RELEASE SYSTEM
United States Patent 3751913
www.freepatentsonline.com...

ORIGIN OF THE DISCLOSURE

The invention described herein was made in the performance of work under a NASA contract and is subject to the provisions of section 305 of the National Aeronautics and Space Act of 1958, Public Law 85-568 (72 Stat. 435; 42 USC 2457).

This invention relates generally to a chemical release system and relates in particular to a system for releasing barium in the vapor phase so that it can be ionized by solar radiation and also be excited to emit resonance radiation in the visible range. The ionized luminous cloud of barium then becomes a visible indication of magnetic and electric characteristics in space and allows determination of these properties over relatively large areas of space at a given time compared to rocket borne or orbiting instruments. For example, a geomagnetic field line could be illuminated by the present invention from pole-to-pole.

Presently, barium release systems are used to create ion clouds in the upper atmosphere for the study of geophysical properties of the atmosphere. These known systems utilize a solid chemical system using a thermite mixture of barium and copper oxide as the heat-producing reaction and an excess of barium to be vaporized. This system is launched by a suitable rocket and, at a predetermined time, the ingredients are ignited and released from a canister through a burst diaphragm and nozzle. The resulting barium cloud gives a brilliant color that can be observed and studied from earth to give indications of wind currents and the like. This known system of barium release has proved effective but is inherently of low efficiency in producing barium vapor yielding, in practice, only from 2 to 4 percent of the total chemical weight when actually up to 48 percent is available. In addition, the barium-copper oxide mixture is a fire hazard when mixing and pressing into the canister and must be done under inert atmospheric conditions which proves time-consuming and costly in operation. Also, little, if any, ionization takes place in this known system due to the initial heat generating reaction.

It is therefore an object of the present invention to provide a new and novel barium release system for atmospheric and space studies.

Another object of the present invention is a system for releasing barium in the vapor phase so that it can be ionized by solar radiation and excited to emit resonance radiation in the visible range.

Another object of the present invention is a novel chemical mixture for releasing a good yield of free atoms and barium ions.

A further object of the present invention is a binary liquid hypergolic chemical release system in which barium is formed as a vapor at the time of release.

The foregoing and other objects are attained in one aspect of the present invention by providing a liquid fuel, in which barium salts are dissolved, and a high energy oxidizer which spontaneously ignites the fuel on contact. The barium release is accomplished by impinging fuel and oxidizer jets in an open-ended combuation chamber which expels the reaction product gases or plasma and which includes the desired barium neutral atoms (Ba° ) and barium ions (Ba + ) as individual species.

A more complete appreciation of the invention and many of the attendant advantages thereof will be readily apparent as the same becomes better understood by reference to the following detailed description when considered in connection with the accompanying drawings wherein:

FIG. 1 is a schematic representation of the fuel and oxidizer tanks connected to an open-ended combustion chamber in a launch rocket for release of barium according to the present invention; and

FIG. 2 is a plot of triangular coordinates which defines the barium nitrate- barium chloride-hydrazine mixtures of the present invention.

Aluminum soap demisting agent in jet fuel

www.patentstorm.us...

oai.dtic.mil...

Accession Number : ADD003645

Title : Aluminum Soap Demisting Agent in Jet Fuel.

Descriptive Note : Patent,

Corporate Author : DEPARTMENT OF THE NAVY WASHINGTON D C

Personal Author(s) : Adicoff,Arnold

Report Date : 30 NOV 1976

Pagination or Media Count : 2

Abstract : Compositions of matter comprising a mixture of a jet fuel and an aluminum di-acid soap of a saturated carboxylic acid having from 8 to 20 carbon atoms are disclosed. The compositions of matter are useful as fuels for jet aircraft. (Author)

Descriptors : *Patents, *Aluminum soaps, *Fuel additives, *Jet engine fuels, Saturated hydrocarbons, Carboxylic acids, Chemical composition, Mixtures

Subject Categories : FUELS

Distribution Statement : APPROVED FOR PUBLIC RELEASE

Originally posted by MathiasAndrew
reply to post by Aloysius the Gaul

 

As I have said before, when you put all the evidence together then there is no doubt that these projects are happening on a large scale basis for studies and testing.
You must be joking if you want to keep suggesting that they're not.

Mat, this is getting pathetic.

Let's take your basic assumptions, and look at reality:

"Chemtrails are cooling the climate"
There is no definitive, objective evidence that the Earth has cooled as a result of the application of stratospheric SO2 aerosols. NOT ONE!
Dozens of studies have considered the feasibility of this approach to SRM/mitigation, but none has been shown to be effective.

Show us ONE, or you can persist in a delusion.

"Chemtrails" are to reduce the world's population."
After nearly 20 years of "chemtrail" propaganda, the Earth's population has increased by more than 1,000,000,000 people!
The methods you've described can NEVER achieve the stated goals of the "de-industrialists" like Holdren and Ehrlich.

Show us how this result is measured, observed and chronicled or persist in your pathetic delusions.

Mat, why are you so afraid? There are many who have studied ordinary contrails and found plenty to criticize! Why make things up, when there are plenty of present-day problems that affect us NOW, instead of some make-believe plot against people in general?

deny ignorance
jw

I am also posting this in another thread in case it just gets buried in that one. But here are my questions and observations:

What exactly is the relationship between the temperature at 30,000 feet and the temperature on the ground?

Yesterday it was about 87 degrees on the ground and there were no persistent trails (though I did see some real contrails dragging behind a few planes and then quickly going away.

Today (Friday) it is about 97 degrees on the ground and the sky is scarred with persistent lines that have hung around for at least an hour.

This got me thinking about a reoccurring pattern I have noticed over the past month and a half or so. During the week the sky remains clear and free of these persistent trails and on the weekends, all weekend (Fri-Sun) every weekend (for the past month or so-ever since it started getting nice enough for people to be spending more time outdoors) the sky is full of them all day long. It's interesting to consider this in relationship to the fact that more people spend more time outdoors on the weekends than they do during the week.

So my questions are these:

To the debunkers: What is the relationship between ground temperature and troposphere temperature? And if the trails are just an artifact of the weather why are they so consistently biased toward the weekends?

To everybody else: Have you noticed the same sort of pattern where you live?

Originally posted by coyotepoet


So my questions are these:

To the debunkers: What is the relationship between ground temperature and troposphere temperature?

As a rule of thumb the temperature reduces by 2 deg C per 1000 ft altitude from sea level.

And if the trails are just an artifact of the weather why are they so consistently biased toward the weekends?

The bias exists in your question. Your observations are not sufficient to establish that there is any bias in the occurrences at all.

Originally posted by MathiasAndrew
reply to post by Aloysius the Gaul

 

As I have said before, when you put all the evidence together then there is no doubt that these projects are happening on a large scale basis for studies and testing.

You must be joking if you want to keep suggesting that they're not.

You haven't posted any evidence whatsoever of any large scale anything other than talk-fests and studies about what MIGHT happen.

And I though your position was that it is actually happening - not just testing and study>?

Have you changed your position again?:puz"


What is it you think chemtrails are NOW??

Originally posted by pianopraze


They have tested putting these So2 particles into the air in Canada and found the optimal sizes for spraying them in actual tests. candian study

I'm almost tempted to call this an outright lie...but on the off chance that I missed reading something, where in that link does it support your assertion?

I can see where it says it MODELS testing....

Research, Development, Testing, and Evaluation (RDT&E) costs are modeled using an inflation updated version of the original RAND model.

)pg 11)

They also delineate that the dispersal of Sulfur could be through direct injection into the engines... in other words they don't even have to spray nozzles on the outside of the wings, they inject the So2 into the engines.

No they don't. they don't inject anything - because they are not DOING anything.

So those geoengineering deniers who suggest that geonengineering can not be done through the contrails are wrong.

No, they are not - you are a liar.

The technology is POSTULATED as possible, and it MAY be an efficient method:

While the sulfuric acid injection technique described above does provide some extended altitude capability, it does not appear to provide a substantial enough benefit to warrant its implementation in a turbofan engine for that purpose. However, injection of the sulfuric acid into the exhaust in this way MAY represent an efficient method by which to disperse it into the atmosphere.

In the case of the present system,....

You are quoting out of context again - the PRESENT SYSTEM is afterburning fuel rather than water injecting into the compressor to achieve increased thrust.

Is this a deliberate misquote, or did you simply not read the previous paragraph properly?

So many errors from you in one post - so little comprehension of what you actually read....either that or you are deliberately misquoting out of context.......I'm wondering if you are truly so stupid, or you are deliberately setting out to mislead - neither is appealing to me but there's a lot more evidence for them than for chemtrails!

reply to post by Aloysius the Gaul


Thanks for the info, that means I'll have to do some math.

As for the other part:

The bias exists in your question. Your observations are not sufficient to establish that there is any bias in the occurrences at all.

So observation of the absence of these trails during the week and the presence of them during the weekends for the past month, month and a half indicates that I'm biased because of my observations? Really? Really? What would constitute sufficiency?

reply to post by MathiasAndrew


You had me at chemtrails and discussion...


1 ) What are some of the other theories that you have heard or read about? My brother worked on B-52 Engines as a Jet Mechanic and told me chemicals were being added as early as the late 70's

2 ) Why do you think any of these might be true, not true, possible or impossible? I've seen too much stuff go down in buisness and government to think it isn't possible

3 ) What do think and what are you basing your opinions on? Some of it is speculation.

OK WE KNOW ABOUT 911. The vice president was in charge of our air defense, G.Bush senior was meeting with the brother of that guy in a hotel, I will stop there... so then what happens, there is a no fly for three days, and YES THE EARTH warmed up. It is so obvious that without contrails we are a warmer place. Physics due.

So, maybe we took the bullet for more than one reason. Washington needs to do a lot more. And we did, we do. We have to geo-engineer the earth. It's too late not to. So, China, no more oil.

reply to post by coyotepoet

What would constitute sufficiency?

Oh yeah, sorry I forgot who I was talking to there for a moment. "Proof."

Originally posted by MathiasAndrew
Why would Monsanto create an aluminum resistant GMO seed if they didn't think it was going to be necessary?

You really are quite ignorant of real world science aren't you??!!

Aluminium poisoning of soil has been a major problem for ages - there have been articles published about since at least since 90 years ago.

Aluminium toxicity affects between 40-70% of the earth's arable land.

There have always been billions to be made by anyone who could come up with staple crops that could grow properly in it.

So unless you think Monsanto et al started their poisoning programmes 100+ years ago, and were able to affec most of the world at that time, your question does nothing except highlight hat you don't actually understand agriculture and earth science.