Not your typical Chemtrail thread

Originally posted by coyotepoet

 

Aloysius also posts saying:

Well there you go then - I "always" knew that "geoengineering" was a possibility. IIRC the first time I encountered the concept that a/c might alter the world's climate was as a young mechanic in the 1970's when a possible US SST was still a hot topic, and the effects of pollution being "injected" into the stratosphere were very much under discussion. Then in the 1980's & 1990's there was a lot of discussion of the effect of the combustion products of a/c on the Ozone layer - particularly "NOX & SOX" - nitrous and sulphur oxides. Engine manufacturers were going to massive lengths to decrease the amount of such products. So for me the concept of "geoengineering" is not new at all - I have not had a blinding revelation.

Which seems very much like:

8. Invoke authority. Claim for yourself or associate yourself with authority and present your argument with enough "jargon" and "minutiae" to illustrate you are "one who knows", and simply say it isn't so without discussing issues or demonstrating concretely why or citing sources.

What authority?? I was relating my experiences with the known effects of jet engine exhausts from decades ago.

From another article on tactics other things seen in this thread and almost every other chemtrail thread include:

1) Make outrageous comments designed to distract or frustrate: An Alinsky tactic used to make people emotional, although less effective because of the impersonal nature of the web.
3) Dominate Discussions: Trolls often interject themselves into productive web discussions in order to throw them off course and frustrate the people involved.
4) Prewritten Responses: Many trolls are supplied with a list or database with pre-planned talking points designed as generalized and deceptive responses to honest arguments.
6) False Paradigms: Human beings have a tendency to categorize and label other people and ideas. It is, for better or worse, a fundamental part of how we understand the complexities of the world. This component of human nature, like most any other, can be abused as a powerful tool for social manipulation. By framing a polarized debate according to artificial boundaries, and establishing the two poles of that debate, social engineers can eliminate the perceived possibility of a third alternative.

pakalert.wordpress.com...

Which seems to fit Matty mostly.......

Let's go through them:

1/ Emotional response - hell yeah - the whole hoax relies upon outraged screams along the lines of "what are they doing to us? The skies were never like this before", and the like

2/ Not sure what happened to 2 - is there an item 2 in the list?

3/ Like YT spam for example, continual postings of long lists of patents, papers and references that it appears he hasn't actually read since they do not say what he seems to think they do.

4/ Such as lists of what constitutes evidence of a disinfo agent perhaps??!! how ironic....

5/ Was there meant ot be a 5?

6/ False paradigms - well what are the false paradigms I hold then?

Here's some that the chemtrail hoax holds:

a/ "Owning the weather" is an operational plan for the USAF to carry out when in fact it is a thought exercise that imagines some scenarios and invents what would be required to achieve them

b/ Millions of people worldwide are part of a plot to achieve [whatever it is you think chemtrails are supposed to achieve]

c/ testing sludge at the bottom of a pond, or dust blowing in the air, has anything to do with jet engine exhausts

Again from Aloysius' first post out of the gate:

Anyone who consistantly presents fcounter-factual evidence must be asked how much they are getting paid. Any site that organises counter-factual evidence must be labelled as "unbelievable", "impressive disinformation", "government paid for", lies, etc. No evidence must be presented to prove this tho - no effort must be made to actually show how the disinfo is actualy wrong -

Hmmm...not sure what point you are trying to make here - Matty asked for speculative opinions about the chemtrail topic - I offered one......

I know that this was a long post but I hope people have found it informative. Almost every, if not all of the chemtrail threads and the debunkers on them use these same techniques over and over again and you too can do your own deconstruction (though it gets a bit difficult with the 40+ page posts filled with said techniques.)

the only technique debunkers consistently use is to show that the chemtrail "evidence" doesn't stack up and that the phenomena of contrails is well known and studied, and has been around since long before this theory was started in the late 1990's.

It's a sad day when decades of atmospheric science is thrown over on the basis that some people are now noticing contrails in the sky and instantly leap to the conclusion that it is an evil conspiracy to do [pick whichever theory you subscribe to]

Obviously I have no proof other than the words and methods the debunkers use to say they are or aren't paid shills but I would have to say that if you don't want to be labeled as a paid disinfo agent or shill you shouldn't use so many of their tactics.

Absolutely - don't rely upon verifiable evidence and you won't be labelled a shill.

You'll be labelled a hoaxer

Originally posted by MathiasAndrew
reply to post by Aloysius the Gaul

 

Are you avoiding the real question or just playing dumb? What does the comment you just made have to do with this conversation? You're getting off topic IMO.

Hang on - you asked what I thought was impossible and I told you....and _I_ am avoiding the question and/or playing dumb???

What theory or theories about the suspected use and purposes of chemtrails and/or HAARP's involvement with chemtrails do you think are impossible?

Liar! That wasn't the question you asked me.

Here's what you actually asked me:

What exactly are you saying is impossible?

It was in this message: www.abovetopsecret.com...

The message is expressly addressed to me, I wasn' answering someone else's message when I answered it, and it specifically asks ME for something that _I_ think is impossible, which answer I provided.

We know you invent evidence and don't care whether evidence you haven't invented is true or not so I am not surprised that you go changing the question.

reply to post by saabacura


I think you're on to something

In fact I'm sure I made a similar suggestion some years ago. I know it had something to do with the alien cheese miners on the Moon. Makes more sense that a lot of the suggestions folk keep coming up with!

reply to post by coyotepoet


But 'chemtrails' are cirrus clouds - albeit manmade ones. And the whole issue with them is the way they persist and spread across the sky just like natural cirrus clouds.

You cannot argue a difference when your whole premise is based on simularity.

reply to post by Essan


First you say

The one theory which no-one has yet been able to disprove - and you yourself declined to get involved in a discussion on the subject - is that they are........ ........ contrails

then you say

But 'chemtrails' are cirrus clouds - albeit manmade ones. And the whole issue with them is the way they persist and spread across the sky just like natural cirrus clouds.

and yet even the contrail sites say

Contrails are linear ice clouds formed in the wake of aircraft, which, when persistent, can result in the formation of cirrus cloud cover.

Extensive cirrus cloud development has been observed after the formation of persistent contrails. The science on this relationship is still developing, and while cirrus clouds are acknowledged to have a net warming effect, the significance of this effect is still uncertain. The scientific understanding of cloud formation and modification due to air travel is still limited. As the most recent IPCC assessment report notes:

“Because spreading contrails lose their characteristic linear shape, a component of [aviation-induced cloudiness] is indistinguishable from background cirrus” (IPCC, 2007, AR I, section 2.6.3, p 187).

"Indistinguishable from" and "result in the formation of" are not the same as IS. So which is it? Are they contrails or cirrus clouds?

And unless I'm missing something that is not the whole issue. If this thread were intended to talk about if they do or don't exist then that might be the issue but again from the OP, which has been repeated several times:

Instead I would like to discuss some of the more controversial and less provable theories about chemtrails. This type of discussion requires no concrete evidence or "proof" because we are all just merely speculating.

So the question of whether or not they are contrails, cirrus, or chemtrails is really immaterial to the intended thrust of the OP. It seems none of you can allow a chemtrail/geoengineering thread to go by without trying to derail it into argument. Even when people try to ignore your off topic posts and stay on topic based on the thread you guys pop up just like little 3 year olds screaming "Pay attention to me now!" with little one liners designed to draw people into an emotional response

I suggest to all of the people who want this thread to remain true to the intent of the OP that we simply go back to ignoring their attempts at derailing the thread, which is to say that no matter how much they whine like toddlers we just ignore them. They may scream louder and try to derail the thread even further but if we don't pay attention to them or respond to anything they say we can't be drawn into an argument and can continue to keep the thread on topic.

reply to post by Aloysius the Gaul


This is the last time I will even acknowlege that you guys are posting anything on this thread and recommend that others do the same however to address your points:

Which seems to fit Matty mostly....... Let's go through them:
1/ Emotional response - hell yeah - the whole hoax relies upon outraged screams along the lines of "what are they doing to us? The skies were never like this before", and the like
2/ Not sure what happened to 2 - is there an item 2 in the list?
3/ Like YT spam for example, continual postings of long lists of patents, papers and references that it appears he hasn't actually read since they do not say what he seems to think they do.
4/ Such as lists of what constitutes evidence of a disinfo agent perhaps??!! how ironic....
5/ Was there meant ot be a 5?
6/ False paradigms - well what are the false paradigms I hold then? Here's some that the chemtrail hoax holds: a/ "Owning the weather" is an operational plan for the USAF to carry out when in fact it is a thought exercise that imagines some scenarios and invents what would be required to achieve them b/ Millions of people worldwide are part of a plot to achieve [whatever it is you think chemtrails are supposed to achieve] c/ testing sludge at the bottom of a pond, or dust blowing in the air, has anything to do with jet engine exhausts

1) Outraged screams? I don't see any outraged screams or hoaxes. Just people who honestly believe something is going on and attempting to get to the bottom of it. I'm not outraged. Maybe concerned for the safety of my child but not outraged or overly emotional. If anything the outraged screams come from your side and the oft repeated mantra "They are all contrails." Whenever someone suggests otherwise, it is your side that screams foul and tries to put the "chemmies" down. An emotional response in this case means trying to goad people into arguments which you guys do all the time.

2) and 5)

2) Pose as a supporter of the truth, then make comments that discredit the movement: We have seen this even on our own forums — trolls pose as supporters of the Liberty Movement, then post long, incoherent diatribes so as to appear either racist or insane. Here is a live example of this tactic in use on Yahoo! Answers.
5) False Association: This works hand in hand with item #2, by invoking the stereotypes established by the “Trojan Horse Troll.”

I left them out of the list intentionally because I didn't see them as applying in this case. And your point and intention of pointing out that there was no 2 and 5 in my list was what exactly?

3) Dominate Discussions: Trolls often interject themselves into productive web discussions in order to throw them off course and frustrate the people involved.

#3 Long lists of YT spam, patents, etc? How is that meant to dominate the discussion in this thread? That is the point of this thread. The fact that you and your ilk are continually trying to derail from that on this thread which had been productive until you guys forced responses, that is the definition of dominating the discussion. Take your Tanker Enemy post on page 1 for example. Isn't that YT spam in an attempt to deride and derail?

#6 False Paradigm=the black and white "do they or don't they exist arguments that you guys always try to interject in these threads even though they may have nothing to do with that particular argument.

the only technique debunkers consistently use is to show that the chemtrail "evidence" doesn't stack up and that the phenomena of contrails is well known and studied, and has been around since long before this theory was started in the late 1990's.

So far, especially in this thread I have seen very little use of scientific method and showing that the evidence doesn't stack up and a whole lot of use of name calling and derisive comments Your recent post included.

Originally posted by coyotepoet
"Indistinguishable from" and "result in the formation of" are not the same as IS. So which is it? Are they contrails or cirrus clouds?

I assume you are attempting to be deliberately obtuse?

Natural cirrus is natural cirrus

Contrails are manmade cirrus which whilst obviously forming under different circumstances (from the exhaust of aircraft) then act and behave exactly the same as natural cirrus.

So the answer is: contrails are manmade cirrus clouds. Which everyone (who has bothered to read a book about the weather - check out your local library, usually under the science section) has known for decades.

Originally posted by coyotepoet
So the question of whether or not they are contrails, cirrus, or chemtrails is really immaterial to the intended thrust of the OP. It seems none of you can allow a chemtrail/geoengineering thread to go by without trying to derail it into argument.

What's your point?

If someone starts a thread saying that domestic cats are really alien dinosaur-bats, but can provide no evidence they are not cats, would you expect people to engage in the fantasy that they are really alien dinosaur-bats? Or just point out that they are cats?

If you wish to present a new hypothesis you must first show reason for doubting the existing theory. When you go out of you way to avoid doing so, you cannot expect to be taken seriously.

btw the inconvenient thread is here

I ask a question. No-one on ATS bothers to answer. Says a lot

reply to post by Stewie

I think it is the latest war technology being tested in the atmosphere, that is, using and controlling weather to accomplish economic ends for an elite few. Geoengineering complete control. Certainly they can poison whomever they wish, but until they feel they understand all of the risks involved, they must continue testing. We are Guinea pigs.

The more I think about this possibility, the more sense it makes. Certainly, with DARPA and other programs the development of unconventional weapons is a reality. It also wouldn't be the first time that people have been used as unsuspecting guinea pigs (like the Tuskeegee experiment or any of the things I listed earlier in the thread regarding biological agent testing.) Good brainstorming.

reply to post by saabacura

One, it is the aliens/ufo spraying it.... Two, it is humans spraying it to counter the UFOs.... wat do you think????

I've heard of the possibility of it being humans, not to counter, but to cover up increased UFO activity. That is a valid possibility given the seeming need of TPTB to deny anything UFO related.

Any mention of UFO's around chemtrails I have heard has centered around them being Sylphs working on ameliorating the negative effects of the chemtrails.

Sylph (also called sylphid) is a mythological creature in the Western tradition. The term originates in Paracelsus, who describes sylphs as invisible beings of the air, his elementals of air

There have been numerous writings of late, channelings mostly, talking about how EBE's have intervened in the ways that they could to lessen the damaging effects of TPTB's dirty tricks in general.

However the use of trails for HAARP, Geoengineering, and Unconventional weaponry make more sense to me. Despite this, the point of this thread is to serve as a sort of "theory room" and as such your points should still be considered valid possibilities for the purposes of brainstorming.

There are four basic rules in brainstorming.[1] These are intended to reduce social inhibitions among group members, stimulate idea generation, and increase overall creativity of the group.
1. Focus on quantity: This rule is a means of enhancing divergent production, aiming to facilitate problem solving through the maxim quantity breeds quality. The assumption is that the greater the number of ideas generated, the greater the chance of producing a radical and effective solution.
2. Withhold criticism: In brainstorming, criticism of ideas generated should be put 'on hold'. Instead, participants should focus on extending or adding to ideas, reserving criticism for a later 'critical stage' of the process. By suspending judgment, participants will feel free to generate unusual ideas.
3. Welcome unusual ideas: To get a good and long list of ideas, unusual ideas are welcomed. They can be generated by looking from new perspectives and suspending assumptions. These new ways of thinking may provide better solutions.
4. Combine and improve ideas: Good ideas may be combined to form a single better good idea, as suggested by the slogan "1+1=3". It is believed to stimulate the building of ideas by a process of association.

en.wikipedia.org...
www.mindtools.com...

As such even Network Dude's:

Assuming that what everyone sees in the sky is more than a condensate trail left from aircraft exhaust in cloud forming conditions, I would say we are being sprayed with vitamins and minerals meant to increase life expectancy.

or the other debunkers screams and cries that they don't exist and are just cirrus clouds/contrails should be considered as valid possibilities. But, based on the rules of brainstorming they shouldn't be considered as the only possibilities ridding us of the need for further brainstorming.

reply to post by coyotepoet

Thanks for the reply.
Brainstorming is what we are supposed to be doing on this thread, or so I thought. It seems that some want every chemtrail thread to become a pissing match.
I miss the ignore option.
On topic, the "elites" are becoming like mice in a cage. At some point, if we shine enough light, even the masses will consider the alternative to the mainstream thought machine and their thought police. I recognize them (the thought police) here on ATS, they are very predictable. I am not afraid to call them like I see them, my gut instincts are rarely wrong especially when each post they make reinforces that instinct.
Woops, off topic again. Don't feed the trolls.
Keep shining the light, coyote. For the record, I have seen the chemtrail threads evolve. More are coming around.

Originally posted by MathiasAndrew

1 ) What are some of the other theories that you have heard or read about?

2 ) Why do you think any of these might be true, not true, possible or impossible?

3 ) What do think and what are you basing your opinions on?

edit on 24-3-2011 by MathiasAndrew because: add text

I have seen very little information on "chemtrails" in all the internet researching I have done relating to government and quasi-government secret activities. I know some take them very seriously and feel that their health has been adversely affected.

I recently heard Jon Rappoport on a Coast to Coast interview. And one point he makes, among many, is that what might be called "psychological warfare" techniques have become very sophisticated over the past few decades. The people who do not have the best interests of the planet in mind will try anything to keep us confused and upset about what they are doing, now that their existence has been made public. Chemtrails could just be another example of that.

I know that compared to other information that has been surfacing recently chemtrails would take a back seat for me. This recent data includes the Rappoport interview, that focused on the secret eugenics program, and the just-released interview on Project Camelot with a girl who is just now piecing together what happened to her during a tour of duty at a top secret military area in Nevada many years ago.

I think this breaking data is much more vital to filling in missing pieces of information regarding the extent of large-scale activities that are being kept secret.

The higher-ups in this game are never going to talk. Yet they are too compulsive to keep totally quiet about their planning, so we do have various data dribbling out in various forms.

If you are wondering what's killing this planet and the life forms and societies on it, I urge you to keep searching for more missing pieces. They are out there.

For others of us the time has come to address the obvious next question: Can anything be done to turn this scene around? My church (as an example) has a program they are working on furiously to address the major points of attack to buy time for deeper handlings to get done. But their reputation in academic and popular circles has been almost totally ruined by the powers that be, so our rate of progress, though significant, is much slower than it could be.

There are a few others trying to lend a hand. But most people are still too confused or distracted to act. The secret government totally depends on this continuing to be the situation indefinitely. So for most of us that are sincerely interested in preventing the secret planning from moving forward, our work must concentrate on de-confusing and de-distracting people with data that has as much truth in it as we are capable of providing in a way that will not be overwhelming.

It would be great to solve chemtrails. But it makes more sense to me to concentrate on subjects that have lots of solid data that just needs to be made known.

Originally posted by coyotepoet
reply to post by pianopraze

 

Pianopraze said:

HAARP is also used as a mind control device. Guess who I found talking about it? An army Psy Ops guy, and then later NSA Michael Aquino. In this paper he suggest the army should keep the american people always under mind control and suggests ways which that HAARP is theoretically capable of (some are even in the patents):

Were you aware that this was the same person noted below?

The Temple of Set was established in 1975 by Lt. Colonel of the US Army Michael A. Aquino and certain members of the priesthood of the Church of Satan,[1] who left because of administrative and philosophical disagreements with its founder, and, as Aquino said, because he was disgusted at the corruption within the Church of Satan.[1] The Temple of Set was incorporated in California that same year as a nonprofit church.[2]

en.wikipedia.org...

Interesting person to be writing about mind control don't you think?

Psy Ops is the Army disinformation coprse. I almost went into it, but chose linguist inseatd because they gave me huge sign on bonuses.

Aquino is a devil in the flesh if ever there was on. He is intimately linked with MK Ultra according to many sources including kidnapped and prostituted children as outlined in the conspiracy of silence video.

The evil of this man is hard to comprehend. He has been accused to have brought boys to perform sick sexual acts beyond description at the bohemian grove.

The whole paper that quote comes from is on Psy Ops mind controlling the entire us population. As far as I can see it has been carried out ever since, and HAARP is the most modern version of the technology he is talking about - but now with a global reach.

As the above poster shows, chemtrails is a dead end. We need to make sure we focus on geoengineering not chemtrails. Those like this poster search chemtrails and find conspiracy. But if they search geoengineering they find hard hitting science papers, funding in the millions if not billions per year and political discusions

We must shift from talking about chemtrails and start talking about geoengineering. I started a thread on this. And suggest we need a geoengineering forum here: my ATS thread.

I just had a thought whilst posting somewhere on an almost entirely unrelated subject - some christian warbling on about how Atheists cause earthquakes.....

But it occured to me that actually religon is humanity's only current geo-engineering project.

think about it - way back in the dim dark days, some cavemen started noticing the patterns - cold in winter, warm in summer, rain sometimes, droughts others.

He/she/they figured there had to be someone "doing" this to them - clearly it wasn't themselves doing it. So they started to think that maybe the sun, or the moon might have control of the weathe ....and perhaps they could influence those by way of doing something for them.

And so on and so forth in the evolution of religon.

Esssentially, religon began as the primitives wanting to improve their crops, get the rains arrriving on time, stop winters being too cold.

What is that if not attempting to control teh climate??

Religon - humanity's first, longest running, and least successful attempt at geo-engineering!!

reply to post by coyotepoet

I suggest to all of the people who want this thread to remain true to the intent of the OP that we simply go back to ignoring their attempts at derailing the thread, which is to say that no matter how much they whine like toddlers we just ignore them. They may scream louder and try to derail the thread even further but if we don't pay attention to them or respond to anything they say we can't be drawn into an argument and can continue to keep the thread on topic.

S&F coyotepoet well said. I wanted this thread to try and focus more on the theories that are out there more than I wanted reasons why they might or might not be true. I wanted to see what themes or theories were the most repeated ones. To get an idea of what most people think the reasons that something like this might be happening.

So far there seems to be two theories that have been talked about the most. One is geoenginreering and the other is weather warfare/HAARP connection. These two, so far, seem to also have the most evidence to support the theory. I still think many of the other theories are valid and possible. But so far these two theories are the most probable

reply to post by Aloysius the Gaul

He/she/they figured there had to be someone "doing" this to them - clearly it wasn't themselves doing it. So they started to think that maybe the sun, or the moon might have control of the weathe ....and perhaps they could influence those by way of doing something for them. And so on and so forth in the evolution of religon. Esssentially, religon began as the primitives wanting to improve their crops, get the rains arrriving on time, stop winters being too cold. What is that if not attempting to control teh climate?? Religon - humanity's first, longest running, and least successful attempt at geo-engineering!!

Believe it or not, I see what you are trying to say with this. However, the very word engineering implies being active. Geoengineering is therefore an active attempt at changing the atmosphere and weather. What you suggest is merely primitive people's way of understanding the weather, not attempting to control it. There's a big difference.

And Pianopraze:

I know what you are talking about as well in terms of focusing on the more scientifically accepted geoengineering as opposed to the conspiracy connected chemtrails, but I'm not entirely sure that geoengineering is the end all and be all reason for the lines in the skies. Still, it's wise to focus on what can be scientifically argued.

I'm sure the debunkers will be well aware of my new thread because they jump on everything with the word "chemtrail" in it, but here is a link to my thread

A challenge to Chemtrail Debunkers

www.abovetopsecret.com...

The truly wise live by the maxim, “the more I know the more I know I don't know.” Of course some of the lines in the sky are simply contrails, some may even be persistent contrails. To deny all that science has to say about the topic is, in fact, ignorant. Of course some of these trails are simply contrails, but not all of them. To turn it into an all-or-nothing prospect on either side is equally ignorant. People, at least those who are open minded, intuitively understand/feel/know that something is not right about some of these lines in the sky. If they are indeed not all innocent contrails that then begs the question, why? What purpose do these lines serve? Many ideas have been put forth as people seek to understand what their intuition is telling them. Some may be correct, some may not be. These ideas include (in no particular order)
1) Geoengineering
2) Mind Control/dumbing down
3) Eugenics/population control/sterilization
4) Increasing the number of sick people to benefit the pharmaceutical company
5) Aspect of HAARP or Bluebeam projects
6) Using weather as a weapon
7) A new type of weapons technology being tested on unsuspecting guinea pigs
8) GMO's (like Monsanto's aluminium resistant crops)
9) Creating rain/drought/etc (an offshoot of geoengineering)
10) To block the sun/blue sky for whatever reason.
Or, as one debunker sarcastically suggested
11) Benignly spraying us with vitamins and minerals to help us live longer and be more healthy

Any one or all of them could be possible and valid reasons for the trails that aren't contrails. Yet the debunkers say that they are all contrails.

As I have stated, of course some of the lines in the sky are simple, harmless contrails. To argue otherwise would be foolish. So here is my question and challenge to the debunkers: Are you willing to admit that at least some of the trails across the sky are indeed “chemtrails” whatever their purpose may be? If the answer is yes then we can open up a new form of dialogue and you can take your place among the great scientists who believed that intuition is at least as important as “hard” science. If the answer is no and you still persist in the belief and the argument that all of the lines are simply “persistent contrails” Then your stand places you in the same small and closed minded space that you accuse “chemmies” of occupying. So which is it? Yes, regardless of purpose, some of the lines are chemtrails instead of simply contrails. Or, No, none of the contrails are chemtrails and you are as small and closed minded as you accuse us of being? Yes or no? It's a simple question.

PLease take any comments regarding the challenge to that thread rather than replying to them here.
I posted this here due to the handy summary of potential reasons that were obtained from this discussion.

reply to post by Stewie

I recognize them (the thought police) here on ATS, they are very predictable. I am not afraid to call them like I see them, my gut instincts are rarely wrong especially when each post they make reinforces that instinct.

My observations are that there is a definite rat pack. When you combine all the illuminati symbolism, macabre avatars and monikers along with their redundant "debunking" and persistent petty attacks, it takes things to another level, IMO. There has got to be some "skin" in their game for them to drag it out to the extent that they do....OR else this:
"The individual is handicapped by coming face-to-face with a conspiracy so monstrous he cannot believe it exists" J. Edgar Hoover
But I digress.
Now, back on topic......check this Arizona website out - it has a ton of exquisite and provocative "cloud" pictures. There are literally hundreds of pictures on that site in the gallery, and they don't all add up to being natural contrails according to my visual common sense.

I think one more aspect that needs to be looked into more is the connection with insider knowledge of the programs that might be occurring. Why would Monsanto create an aluminum resistant GMO seed if they didn't think it was going to be necessary? To me this shows foresight and knowledge of the project if not some involvement as well.

OP Chemtrails are not real, if you view a Jet with a telescope or binoculars, you will notice that the "chemtrails" are being produce from the jet's engines...now why would that be if its chemicals? wouldn't there be nozzles?

Originally posted by Nobama
OP Chemtrails are not real, if you view a Jet with a telescope or binoculars, you will notice that the "chemtrails" are being produce from the jet's engines...now why would that be if its chemicals? wouldn't there be nozzles?

No, I have personally spent many hours researching this issue. The answer is not simple as you suggest. There are many more complicated aspects and issues involved.

First let me state, again as mere speculation, that one of the strongest reasons for this is geoengineering. One of the most popular theories among the scientists of the methods we could use are jet aircraft emissions. This may not apply just to jet exhaust emissions but other emissions that Jets could emit by being a transport system for aerosols. This is a fact that is being looked into very deeply by many scientists.

They are trying to figure out how to use these methods in a controlled way that will be effective. However this is a very delicate field of nature they are tinkering with. It could have catastrophic effects if handled carelessly.

They have determined through studies already done that if 1% of jet emissions were to be elevated in altitude by 10,000 feet or so, then that would help in global cooling. But the problem is most modern aircraft do not fly high enough to have the beneficial effect. So aircraft emissions are not going to do the job well enough.

The geoengineeriong scientists have determined that extra aerosol must be injected into the atmosphere at a very high altitude to have a beneficial cooling effect on the Earths albedo. They have devised special particles based on designs of seed pods and dandelions that have an umbrella like shape and aerodynamic lift qualities to them. This is so the material used to radiate and absorb the energies necessary will stay airborne as long as possible.

It is likely that all methods for getting as much aerosols in the atmosphere that they can get away with at one time are being used. They have even studied trying to replicate a volcano. A strong possibility, if you have looked into this subject, will appear. Alter the jet fuel so that it contains more emissions than normal. To make this feasable the fuel needs to burn hotter than normal. Both the factors of extra particulates and extra heat would then be able to explain why the modern contrails persist.

EDIT: My problem is that it is not being openly discussed and studied publicly.