Who's in charge? Germans pull forces out of NATO as Libyan coalition falls apart

reply to post by Gutman


You just named all the countries that were (and most still are) British colonies. So yes, I would imagine that they would send pilots to fly in the RAF. Give credit where credit is due, The United States joining the fight in Europe was the turning point of the war. Had the US not joined, Germany would have eventually taken Britain, and would only have had to fight one front, Russia, and it could have gone either way after that.

reply to post by bluemirage5


what work? they got stampeded on. Germany went too far into Russian, big mistake, Russia capitalized. It also took millions of Russian lives to do it. They are blessed for there sacrifice but it was a sloppy victory. Britain, well, dont even get me started on that.

reply to post by Phantom28804


haha obviously not, I mean listen to what is going on. Germany wants to pull out if NATO is given leadership, because it means that they will actually have to do something. But while the US is leading its, "Oh yaa, zwe havez your back Zamerica"

reply to post by ljonesyuk


Your just angry because you cant have the strategic location of the US.

reply to post by idonotcollectstamps


Thank you, have you ever once thought that the reason the US does these things is because no one else has the balls? Maybe we feel for the countries that are oppressed, that all the citizens in those countries just get treated like crap? Maybe its because that is how our country was founded. Courage, and the will to actually do something.

Originally posted by centurion1211


THIS is what lack of leadership causes.

Or.... And just thinking here... Feel free to call me crazy... If the coalition were to fall apart...Perhaps we could blame the LEADER of the coalition, rather than obama....

Do you really think it makes sense to blame OBAMA for something he is NOT in charge of? Or are you just looking for any excuse to throw tomatoes at the man?

I am not asking you to like the man. Just saying. Be fair and be realistic.

reply to post by gimme_some_truth


I tend to agree with you a bit on this. Obama is obviously trying to make everyone happy and probably felt that it was best to follow allies blindly when they call for action. Kind of like Blair blindly following GW Bush. Didn't do well for either one of there careers.

Obama is to busy letting Ultra Liberals like Biden and Clinton tell him what to do. It's my opinion that he is utterly clueless and most assuredly just like the rest. I am still looking for our new Washington.

reply to post by DankKing420


The USA helped but they did'nt win it, thats all I'm saying.

It's pretty darn arogant for any American to claim they won WW2

Nearly bed time, but i leave with this observatiom.
Germany is not going to leave nato just yet, and the mercinaries that gadafly hired must be the bulk of the undergrouns armies in much of the rest of africa.
I suppose this is an unprecedented opportunity to seriously degrade not just libyan defences, but the seeds of voilent revolutions future on the whole continent possibly........
Now if during this fracas that seems so out of control, a whole passle of these mercs get decommissioned so to speak, as well as the Libyans get what they really want,it cant be all bad.
The ground war is not even yet begun for libya, and we dont even have decent intelligence as to whos got what and whos who.
Part of the sirforce is in rebel hands as well as at least one helicopter.
Those anti aircraft weapons on the pickups are really deadly anti personell weapons too.
It remains to be seen how good an army will wmerge from the rebel ranks to take up the challenge of routing gadaflys forces.
People gotta stop panicking at every minor bump in the road, and start looking at the bigger picture.
Huge pieces of the world puzzle are shifting and being shifted right now, and tremendously powerful forces are delicately edging close to fullfiling age old agendas.
There definately seems to be a creshendo in emotional levels as the solar peak is being reached.
Libya is just one more country, one more plot in a long long line of plots and counterplots of kingmaking and destabilisations and assassinations both physical and spiritual.
There is an opportunity here to see the way ahead as others turn the wheels of governance and finance.
If only we could plot all this stuff on a giant graph some how....the patterns would emerge.
At the very deep down base of it all it apears we are all going a little bit mad.....some more than others.

Originally posted by Jbones
so let me get this straight.. we are in charge once again? and failing miserably?

Can anybody say " bay of pigs" with a straight face?????



Perhaps thats abit dated we (the cia) were supposed to back an "invading force" to over throw fidel castro from cuba; the day of the"invasion" the Air support did not show up as promised and the invaders were left without aircover: shotup captured and killed.

reply to post by centurion1211


I think you have a very simplistic view of this conflict.

It's not as easy as blaming Obama or blaming Quaddafi outright.

Where are these terror attacks and how do you know Quaddafi even has the capacity to carry them out?

How do you know he's going to murder his people like the propaganda alleges?

There is no black and white in this conflict, but rather a shade of grey.

reply to post by snapperski

Considering all the tends or hundreds of billions in weapons, training, and aid we have sold/given to Arab nations over the years to prop up regimes, counter Communism, stabilize oil prices..... where are they? The Saudis have a rather large and sophisticated air force and other nations such as Egypt (who has or had been our number two recipient of foreign aid behind Israel for many years) also has a large armed force. Quatar, Bahrain, UAE, and so on..... surely they could handle Libya without our help and without our earning more enmity in the area. (Oh wait, I forgot.... they usually lose, but then.... its one Arab nation against another so some Arab nation would lose anyway) And for that matter, its also a Mediterranean problem, in which case, thus partially a European one, as they will be getting all the fleeing people looking for a new place to suckle off the governments. Why Nato, per se, and not just surrounding countries? Why the U.S.? Sure, we are still....kinda..... the most powerful military force in the area but geez, its only Libya! 112 Tomahawks..... over a million a piece. An F15...gone. What's THIS mess costing us? If we support democracy in Libya but a regime in Bahrain.... who are we really? Mubarak, gone. The Sauds.... still there! No wonder we confuse other countries! But.... the Arms Dealers still get their profits, don't they?

I don't know what to say about the current situation in Lybia, beyond the fact that I kinda support helping the underdog, but I'm tired of Americans dying for things that have nothing to do with us...beyond the lining of the pocket's of the wealthy.

With regard to the obviously contentious "Who was the baddest of the bad in WWII?" question. I think the Allied soldiers who fought and died to stop the Axis advance would be offended and ashamed at your bickering about trivial crap.

And, without the French, there would be no United States. Yeah, they kinda wimped out in WWII, but I like to try to give them the benefit of the doubt.

Obama is right to refuse to lead this ridiculous crusade. And the European nations are right to pull out, because NATO should not lead it either. If the Arab League wants to enforce a no-fly zone, have at it.

Off-topic, where the heck are the rebels getting tanks, artillery, and helicopters? I though this was a spontaneous uprising just a few weeks ago? How did they arm themselves so well, so quickly?

reply to post by xaphoocom


Why the hell shouldn't Germany have a military after WW2?

reply to post by bluemirage5


Germany IS the EU.

Jesus tits this is just one big mass of "FUBAR" born in an ugly tree that seems to be hitting every branch on the way down....

reply to post by Eurisko2012


Indeed the Brits were hanging on by their finger nails but they also made sure the Nazis were too.....and the Poles helped most during the Battle of Britain.

reply to post by Eurisko2012


How many Americans helped during the Battle of Britain? not enough to say that you helped win and thats why no one mentions the Americans during the BoB.
The pilots weren't the best anyway.

reply to post by centurion1211



America was pretty much worthless throughout a lot of the war and even though the Yanks were fresh it still took the Brits to save their backsides in many battles.