Who's in charge? Germans pull forces out of NATO as Libyan coalition falls apart

reply to post by centurion1211


It was the British victory in North Africa - a campaign carried out, ironically, in Libya and Egypt - that opened the way for the Allied invasion of Europe in 1943.

So far as I'm aware, the Americans were not involved in the North African campaign.

reply to post by bluemirage5


We may refer to them as colonies when joking and winding them up a bit, but no Briton would ever insult our Commonwealth friends by calling them colonies in seriousness.

reply to post by Essan


Here you go:


Fire in his belly:

reply to post by centurion1211


And for the help afterwards by the americans to rebuild etc we were forced to pay back every penny and only just stopped paying about 10 years back (or less)

reply to post by Essan


Hey, I belong to one of those colonies

I still regard myself as one until my country becomes a Republic.....that may speed up if Prince Charles becomes our next King but we might put that idea on the back burner if Prince William becomes the next King.

Australia's Constitution was never formally ratified by the UK and NZ does'nt even have one

We are not fully independant and we know it.......we just choose to ignore it

reply to post by Eurisko2012


Not sure whether Patton was actually involved, but I see the Americans did have a hand in Morrocco and Tunisia - but only after we'd stuffed the Jerries at El Alamein and subsequently taken Tripoli

Hmmm, so is this why the Germans don't want to get involved in Libya? Too many painful memories? Conversely, the British have already liberated Tripoli from oppression once before


And back to the OP: the point is that Germany, as a member of NATO, might be forced to commit forces to Libya if it becomes a NATO led operation. But it wishes to remain neutral.

IMHO it should be a UN operation and whether or not some NATO countries are involved is beside the point. As to who is actually in overall charge. Well, the French went in first. Let's give command to them for a change?

(and I don't believe I just said that!!!!)

Rommel respected Canada

This is about making america and the western christian coalition so broke she'll role over for a raft of nuns with a box of twinkies and a gameboy.

Germany seems to be the only morally fiscally responsible country of the lot
they would like to stay that way

maybe they don't want to go down the nazi road a third time

reply to post by Essan


You allow France to run this whole campaign you DO know what will happen

They're not exactly born warriors!

In WW2 when they found Nazis in their cafes, they flew their white flags and begged to the Brits for help

To be fair to all parties within the democratic system, each member of the UN Security Council had taken a vote. By unanimous decision of majority votes, majority leaders, representative of free mankind made that decision to help our fellow human libyan brothers and sisters, whom had been very much appreciative of our efforts.

Russian and China are not free countries. India is still a slave nation. It is of no value that they were even involve in UN-an institution meant for free mankind and to free mankind, let alone even be in the security council. Those countries routinely mass murders their own people, and thus in support of another mass murderer, they abstained for the vote.

Many claimed western powers went to help Libyan masses because of oil, but on the flip side, China and Russia are the ones to gain the most in oil and armaments procuments with the beast around, and thus their abstinence in supporting freedom for the masses, and even trying to sow discord on the noble efforts of the coalition partners who had done a great job in Libya, acknowledged by the libyans themselves.

Russian, China and the rotten gang's act speaks volumes, and many of their own people seeking freedom knows fully what to do and to do next.

Germany and Brazil are free countries and not mass murdering enslavement despots, but they abstained upon their own conscience. They must have their own reasons not to join hands on the deck to help out our fellow humans in Libyans.

No one should be forced upon to help. With or without Germany's help, we humanity will no longer turn a blind eye to mass murdering by ANY leaders, and will demand that they be held accountable to face trial for their actions and orders. With every ounce of our moral courage, we will not fail, and must never to fail to even try, or it will be our next generations that will suffer even worse fate than ours, through our apathy and greed, had led to today's ills

Germany and Brazil is free to do what it wants. But in the end, by not joining hands, they both will have to face consequences, alone, for every act comes with consequences....remembrance by mankind is one such consequence.

reply to post by SeekerofTruth101


I can understand where Germany is coming from.....

whats their Muslim population? 4.5 million

reply to post by bluemirage5


This is not a religious issue. The Libyans being oppressed by the mass murderer are muslims too.

Today, our actions in Libya is a just and moral issue that transcends beyond all differences such as skin color, sex, nationalities, religions, etc, etc.

It is all about seeking our common aspirations in life by every human on Earth - peace, prosperity, justice, equality, freedom and progress, something that long had been denied by tyrannical despots.

There is nothing about religion in this issue of helping our fellow human libyan brothers and sisters. Those who use religion are only opportunists who seek to use this card to elevate themselves to greater power, at the expense of the less educated and weak minds.

Germany made her stand on her own free will and choice, not out of religion. No one will be forced, but only be remembered of what she had done in others' call in a time of need.....

reply to post by SeekerofTruth101


What the hell are you talking about?

I know damn well this is not a religious issue in any shape or form. I said there are 4.5 Muslims in Germany and I'm sure Germany does'nt want a riot on their hands!!!

Have no idea what you are going on about.

Originally posted by blackcat99
reply to post by centurion1211

 

And for the help afterwards by the americans to rebuild etc we were forced to pay back every penny and only just stopped paying about 10 years back (or less)

edit on 23-3-2011 by blackcat99 because: spelling!

You have a problem with that, I'd say you got a hell of a deal, not to mention you would have probably lost the war without the lend lease agreement.

There was no charge for the Lend Lease aid delivered during the war, but the Americans did expect the return of some durable goods such as ships. Congress had not authorized the gift of supplies after the war, so the administration charged for them, usually at a 90% discount. Large quantities of undelivered goods were in Britain or in transit when Lend-Lease terminated on 2 September 1945. Britain wished to retain some of this equipment in the immediate post war period. In 1946, the post-war Anglo-American loan further indebted Britain to the U.S. Lend-lease items retained were sold to Britain at 10% of nominal value, giving an initial loan value of £1.075 billion for the Lend Lease portion of the post-war loans. Payment was to be stretched out over 50 annual payments, starting in 1951 and with five years of deferred payments, at 2% interest.[27] The final payment of $83.3 million (£42.5 million), due on 31 December 2006 (repayment having been deferred in the allowed five years), was made on 29 December 2006 (the last working day of the year). After this final payment Britain's Economic Secretary to the Treasury, Ed Balls, formally thanked the U.S. for its wartime support.

Originally posted by blackcat99
reply to post by centurion1211

 

And for the help afterwards by the americans to rebuild etc we were forced to pay back every penny and only just stopped paying about 10 years back (or less)

edit on 23-3-2011 by blackcat99 because: spelling!

Guess you are saying you'd prefer to be speaking German or Russian right now. That's IF you are even here because your ancestors weren't killed in the invasion of Britain.

However ...

The topic of the OP is the "coalition" falling apart due to the Germans pulling out and all the infighting over who is and isn't going to lead the operation.

Carry on ...

reply to post by centurion1211


Who's gonna be in charge?

From day 1 or hours after the UN Security Council vote till now today, the Beast's air force and air defences are no more, and WITHOUT Germany's help.

Since the first bullet from Gaddafi's forces had ripped through the entrails of innocent unarmed civilians, the Libyan masses had been largely fighting on their own. Some would say madness, in the face of superiour air, tank and professional fighting forces, but they held on so far.

Even if today, without any help, our courageous libyan brothers and sisters will do all the can, to fight for freedom and from being slaughtered enmass.

The strength and character of the Libyan masses are uncomparable to the rest of the weak minded folks around the world. If they have to do it on their own, they will. But we, the Free world, will NEVER abandon our fellow humans in their struggle for freedom, no matter who pulls out and what breaks up.

Freedom is too big an issue to be obstructed by any obstacle, more so man-made ones, as the brave libyans had proven, and won the support from majority of the world.

Originally posted by SeekerofTruth101
reply to post by bluemirage5

 

This is not a religious issue. The Libyans being oppressed by the mass murderer are muslims too.

Yes, and at the start Gaddafi specifically made the point that those opposing him were working for Al Qaeda - implicating muslim extremists. This was before the west had any involvement other than attempting to get our countrymen out of the country.

Originally posted by centurion1211

Originally posted by blackcat99
reply to post by centurion1211

 

And for the help afterwards by the americans to rebuild etc we were forced to pay back every penny and only just stopped paying about 10 years back (or less)

edit on 23-3-2011 by blackcat99 because: spelling!

Guess you are saying you'd prefer to be speaking German or Russian right now. That's IF you are even here because your ancestors weren't killed in the invasion of Britain.

Which the British and her allies prevented. In 1940 After which Nazi Germany turned their attention east, having given up on Britain, long before American entered the fray.

Sorry. OT. But had to be said. We have our pride

reply to post by centurion1211


I have to wonder how much of this is because of lack of leadership by the US that shouldn't in my opinion been in it in the first place. This whole coalition could have easily been led by the European forces without the US. I think the US has it's hands in to many problems as is. The real thing I wonder is if this is more due to China, Russia, Brazil, and India's latest call for a cease fire. I thought Germany abstained from the vote anyway? What are they doing there in the first place?

I would think that it would not be a good idea to fly for the next year or so. I think we can expect a few plane to fall out of the air.

Refresh me, the US is involved in Libya because...national security is at a threat level that is above the "need to know" of the american public ..the ones funding this combat action? To attempt to keep some sort of "balance of power" as if Americans should be involved the policitical structure of the Far and Middleeast? To stabilize or destabilize the world's production of petroleum depending on who we are backing at the present? How about lets get a military action going on a third front...anyone familiar with military history.. can understand the future of any nation that attempted a 3 front combat strategy?