Bible Answers to Member Questions

reply to post by sacgamer25

But I do believe that God loved us enough to tell a complete story that he preserved in one book.

Excellent reply!!

Now, lets find out which bible God Preserved though. I of course hold to God preserving His literally "WORDS" in the King James Bible for ENGLISH speaking People.

I'll only post two examples per post so as to keep things in context and reading to a minimal.

Exhibit A:
KJV---Colossians 1:13-14
"13 Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son:
14 In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins:"

NIV says:
Colossians 1:14 "In whom we have redemption, the forgiveness of sins."

What is missing from the verse.....anybody? Please do tell? And does it matter?
______________________________________________________________________________________
Exhibit B:
KJV-----Matt. 18:11
"11 For the Son of man is come to save that which was lost."

NIV says:
"verse omitted"........

Does this matter?

These are two of about 40 verses dealing ONLY in salvation. I will deal with the other major doctrines of the Bible later if need be. But I believe after a few more painful examples, you will come to see God uses, inspired, preserved, and Blesses His King James Bible translated under a King (Ecc 8:4) who has a JEWISH name. Go figure. (Rom 3:1-2) Look up my verses in parentheses...you will like them and they are VERY perdante to the conversation.

reply to post by KJV1611

Right, a king who ordered the translators to create a Bible which supported the doctrines of the Church of England.
Also it used highly modified Byzantium versions of the Greek text that supported the Greek official church doctrines.

And the book of Colossians is one of the books of the NT written after the death of Paul but fabricated to look as if Paul had written it, again to support existing newly introduced church doctrine. An inside job by the church who of course embraced and accepted it when it mysteriously just appeared in the church documents.

Originally posted by jmdewey60
reply to post by Lazarus Short

 

It's a big blank from what I can tell.
I did a couple hours of searching and all I came up with was that one item I posted, about the Radio Church of the Air having published his lectures as a book. Then it was picked up by that nutty preacher who NOTurTypical is always posting links to his videos.
There are no serious authors who have ever written about his theories.

edit on 26-12-2011 by jmdewey60 because: (no reason given)

Yes, I know that there is little about Panin on the www. For that matter, there is little to be found about him in books, and as far as I know, no definitive book has been written about him. That can happen when you retire and work on a subject alone for some forty years... If you think a certain preacher is nutty, consider that he may know something you don't.

Originally posted by KJV1611
reply to post by Lazarus Short

 

sacgamer25 and Laz--------Just curious, which "English" translation Bible do you think is perfect and without error? Since both you guys believe the Bible is preserved which I commend the both of you for. About time.

As for the others guys, I don't care which bible you like, don't bother replying.

------------All yeah, Madcat, I was amazed at your works based salvation plan you laid out with your attempt to explain tares and wheat. Good works out weighing your bad after you die.....do you really believe that is what will take you to heaven when you die?

-------As for the guy who posted a question in form of a video. Please post your question in text please. I didn't watch the video.

Looking at the small bookshelf above my computer, I can see, left to right:

The Book of Jasher
the Complete Works of Josephus
the Holy Bible (KJV)
The Book of Enoch
Unholy Hands on the Bible, volumes I and II
the Holy Bible in Modern English (the Ferrar Fenton translation)
a Bible Commentary
a Bible Encyclopedia

another bookshelf has:

Andy Gaus' The Unvarnished New Testament
The Four Translation New Testament
another KJV
another KJV
a Strong's Concordance

I really like the Gaus NT, and yes, I know he's Catholic, but it hardly shows, and probably does not matter.
I love the Fenton OT, but his NT is based on Westcott & Hort, so I don't use it.
I love the KJV enough that it is my "go-to" bible, and when I quote the Bible, it is almost always the KJV I quote from. I don't want to deal with the "perfect" issue, but I admit the KJV may be that - at least, it is far more than good enough for me. Ivan Panin's mathematically restored Bible may be perfect, but I doubt I'll ever see a copy of it in my lifetime. Failing that, the KJV is my Gold Standard.

Originally posted by jmdewey60
reply to post by KJV1611

 

Right, a king who ordered the translators to create a Bible which supported the doctrines of the Church of England.
Also it used highly modified Byzantium versions of the Greek text that supported the Greek official church doctrines.

And the book of Colossians is one of the books of the NT written after the death of Paul but fabricated to look as if Paul had written it, again to support existing newly introduced church doctrine. An inside job by the church who of course embraced and accepted it when it mysteriously just appeared in the church documents.

Yes, with all that, even so the King James Bible is held to be the genuine, unaltered, faithfully translated from the original Hebrew, words of God Almighty, to be taken most literally. Those who disagree are often castegated as brain-washed pseudo-intellectuals who have been led astray.

Many of us have heard the joke about the King James Version: "If it was good enough for the apostle Paul, it is good enough for me!" Paul, of course, was fifteen and a half centuries too early for the KJV. The New Testament writers wrote in Koine Greek, the language of the common man in the first century A.D. The first complete English Bible was not produced until John Wycliffe produced his in the fourteenth century. He translated from the Latin Vulgate which was the most widely used version at that time. The next major step in the development of the English Bible was Tyndale's translation of the New Testament published in 1526 and portions of the Old Testament published later. Tyndale's version was significant because it was translated from a newly published Greek New Testament rather than from the Vulgate.

The Debate Over the King James Version

A Brief History of the King James Bible

THE TRUTH ABOUT THE SPANISH BIBLE

During the Hampton Court Conference in January of 1604, Dr. John Reynolds, a Puritan, suggested that the translations of the Bible that were allowed during the reigns of Henry VII and Edward VI were [corrupt] and a new translation was needed. King James agreed and appointed fifty-four of the best scholars and linguists in the world to a translation committee.

Who was King James?

So, let's recap. John Reynolds stated that the original translations were in fact corrupt, so King James ordered a new translation written and published. Yeah, that makes sense. Ever hear the term, "lost in translation?"

reply to post by autowrench


Now, now, now peoples....if you want to debate the KJV's history we can do that later (I will win of course But right now we are comparing the KJV verses other ENGLISH translations. We can't compare the KJV to the originals simply because there are no originals (not for the last 1,700 years at least). Stay on topic or don't post at all in MY thread. Or you can ask another question.

Thanks!

reply to post by autowrench


I clicked on the the link you provided about Spanish Bibles. A Spanish Protestant version? Sadly, Spain killed and suppressed its Protestants so thoroughly that history has almost forgotten that Spain ever had a Protestant. I say this in their memory.

reply to post by KJV1611


I pray to God this message reaches your ears so that you may hear. I pray that your heart be open so that you may see. I pray that all of you accept that your father’s will for you is perfect. I pray this in the name of Jesus Christ the son of God.

Trust me I do understand what you are saying but the truth of the message remains intact as a whole. The whole message is far simpler than man teaches.

The message of Christ is that the law although perfect is incapable of changing a man’s heart. So what Christ did is show how if you follow the will of your father your heart can be changed.

So you see here is how I live my life. I listen to the Holy Spirit; some may call this there conscious, the thing that always points you to do good.

Now you see there are also Spirits that can lead you to make the wrong choices, so the bible and Jesus life is the way for us to determine which Spirit is leading us when we are confronted with difficult choices.
If the Spirit agrees with the bible and Jesus than you know you are being led by the Holy Spirit. If it does not than you know you are being led by a bad spirit. This is why it is necessary to always read your bible. The message of what is good and what is bad is well preserved in all translations.

So now that I understand what Christ wanted from me I indeed can follow in his way. I simply choose to do the fathers will. More simply stated I choose to listen to the Holy Spirit and always let God direct me to what is right. If I have patience, in all situations, I will always receive the words from the Holy Spirit.

For example many times when Christ was being accused he remained silent. His flesh just like ours wanted to lash out in anger but instead of listening to his flesh he remained silent waiting for the Spirit to Guide him. (I know this is reading a bit between the lines but remember he was tempted in every way we are)

So if I have the patience to listen to the Holy Spirit and I believe that since I follow the will of the Holy Spirit than I know whatever happens to me is God’s will. So if an enemy accuses me I now know that this is God’s will, and if I listen to the Holy Spirit it will tell me to love my enemy so indeed I will now be able to love my enemy. You see God would not have allowed my enemy to test me if it was not his will.

So you see accepting God’s will for your life and listening to the Holy Spirit, one can now love his enemy. Because I know it is my father’s will.

This sounds so complicated but it really is easy to do. The message of the cross is to do your fathers will no matter what. This was the point of Christ prayer when he asked the father to take this burden from him and said not my will but yours. So you see if it was his father’s will for him to be crucified than he would be crucified. If his father did not want him crucified than he would not have been crucified.

And yes I think that it is important for man to understand repentance, and the love of Christ that brought forgiveness of sins. But the most important message Christ brought was how to live your life a new way.
Simply choose to follow the Holy Spirit. Never allow yourself to guide you, always allows God to guide you. For you see what the law could not do, change a man’s heart, the will of your father can do. It is your will that needs to be nailed to the cross, so that you can accept the will of your father to guide you.

Again I pray for all whose eyes fall on these words that they may understand with ears to hear and a heart that will accept your loving message. In the name of Jesus Christ the Son of God.

reply to post by sacgamer25


So I guess our comparison of the KJV vs. the NIV is complete huh Oh well, I hope everyone else sees the horrible dangers in using any other Bible other than a Authorized Version King James Bible.

Originally posted by KJV1611
reply to post by sacgamer25

 

So I guess our comparison of the KJV vs. the NIV is complete huh

Oh well, I hope everyone else sees the horrible dangers in using any other Bible other than a Authorized Version King James Bible.

I have read much of the debate and constantly compare various scripture. I believe that the concepts and philosophy has been preserved. If thier is a specific concept that you believe has not been preserved I would be happy to continue this discussion.

reply to post by sacgamer25

I believe that the concepts and philosophy has been preserved. If thier is a specific concept that you believe has not been preserved I would be happy to continue this discussion.

Since you said yourself that you are a rather new Christan, I will give you the benefit of the doubt. But you must be instructed in righteousness in regards to the words of God since the Bible is the ONLY place we learn about God....you need the right one!

As for the concepts and philosophy has been preserved, they matter not. Not at all. What matters are the Actual WORDS themselves:

Psalms 12:6-7
"6 The WORDS of the LORD are pure WORDS: as silver tried in a furnace of earth, purified seven times.
7 Thou shalt keep them, O LORD, thou shalt PRESERVE them from this generation for ever. "

Notice concepts and philosophy is not addressed. Nether here ↓↓

PSALM 119:105
"Thy WORD is a lamp unto my feet, and a light unto my path."

PSALM 119:57
"Thou art my portion, O LORD: I have said that I would keep thy WORDS."

(Its hard to keep God's words....if you don't have them, right? )

And to finish things up, I leave you with my life verses:

Psalms 119:139-141
139 My zeal hath consumed me, because mine enemies have forgotten thy WORDS.

(Shows why I am angry a lot at so called "Christians" that do not follow the Bible. They are my "enemies" and they have forgotten God's WORDS. Out of sight....out of mind, right? )

140 Thy word is very pure: therefore thy servant loveth it.

(Amen, Amen, and Amen.)

141 I am small and despised: yet do not I forget thy precepts.

reply to post by KJV1611


I believe the word of God is perfect but man is fallible. So instead of listening to one man's translation I prefer to look into all possible translations. Especially when I do not understand. I will even look into the variation of the Hebrew and Greek translations to look into all possibilities. In this way I look into every possible translation when I feel it is necessary for my understanding.

Although the KJV is beautifully written and is very poetic, for many it is difficult to read and understand. For you it is the best version and I believe if you made the comment that when any verse is in doubt that you believe the KJV is the authority. I could accept that understanding from you. Personally I encourage everyone to read the version that they feel is easiest for them to understand.

I believe that all translations were done with the intent to keep the word intact. I do know of a few verses here and there where the belief of the church has influenced the translation but for the most part they don’t degrade the message for someone who has studied the entire message.

reply to post by sacgamer25

I believe that all translations were done with the intent to keep the word intact.

You see, this is the problem with Christians and lost people. YOUR BELIEF DOES NOT MATTER!!! You guys always think so highly of yourself that you actually think your opinion matters in light of mounds of evidence to the contrary.

Now think about your above statement....think about it HARD, because the new thing I say goes right over most Christians head.......translations DO NOT keep the original words intact. Not at all. Languages are different, thus you can not EVER have a word for word translation of any language. Thus it is up to GOD to preserve each WORD how He wants it in each new language translation of the Holy Bible.

God put His seal of approval on the KJV in 1611 and ever since. His seal of approval is over 100 million people saved from the KJV pages ALONE. All other english translations combined could not even make up 10 million saved.

Now what you should really be asking your self is this.......why are there a few (1-5) translations for most every language on our planet for the Bible......yet in English, there are over 300.....? You really think it is about "helping" people in America by selling them each there own flavor of the bible.....or is it something else? Think on it a while. I'll give you the answer if you can stomach it.

reply to post by KJV1611


Just a question,

Do my Hebrew and Greek translinear Bibles, which show me the texts that the KJV was translated from, have Gods approval?

Is my CLV (Concordance Literal Version), which aligns much more closely with the originals than does the KJV, an unauthorized and ungodly version?

reply to post by Iason321


I am not sure myself but I hears the NIV was not good... more than a few times I heard to sticks with the KJV.

I have looked into the American Standard edition but it wasn't as powerful imo, though I am not sure what's to be said about that edition (haven't heard anything)

reply to post by SisyphusRide


The NIV Bible has tons of omissions and many important things are changed,

I happen to agree the NIV is not a high quality Bible,

I recommend a KJV, or NKJV, or CLV and no other Bibles, except a good interlinear one with the original Hebrew/Greek, and a strongs concordance.

I've read ~100 different Bibles, and by far the KJV/NKJV/CLV are the most "official",

But theres nothing really wrong with ANY of the translations.....

They even got a Hawaiin pigeon translation which is pretty interesting to read, haha, check this out:

He wen start fo teach um. He tell um:

“Da peopo dat know dey need God inside dea heart,
Dey can stay good inside
Cuz God in da sky, he dea King.
“Da peopo dat cry inside dea heart,
Dey can stay good inside
Cuz God goin kokua dem.
“Da peopo dat no need put demself first everytime,
Dey can stay good inside
Cuz God goin give um da whole world.
“Da peopo dat everytime really like do da right ting,
Dey can stay good inside
Cuz God goin help um do um.
“Da peopo dat pity da odda peopo, an give um chance,
Dey can stay good inside
Cuz God goin pity dem an give um chance too.
“Da peopo dat hundred percent fo God inside,
Dey can stay good inside
Cuz dey goin see God.
“Da peopo dat help da odda peopo come friends again,
Dey can stay good inside
Cuz God goin say, ‘Dey my kids.’
“Da peopo dat do right, an suffa fo dat,
Dey can stay good inside
Cuz God in da sky, he dea King.


Cmon folks!

You know God in da sky, he dea King!

reply to post by Iason321

along with my crusader edition I picked up a 'seminars unlimited' (referenced with Greek & Hebrew dictionaries from Strong's concordances - giant print, red letter edition) it is the one I have been using the last few days because it is easier to handle than the pulpit one... I find it pretty good, it's also a KJV.

I picked up a few different versions... one being really old called (old world version) which is really different.

thanks for your opinion

reply to post by Iason321

Just a question,
Do my Hebrew and Greek translinear Bibles, which show me the texts that the KJV was translated from, have Gods approval?

Not really. I say that that for many reasons.
1. When is the last time you ever heard of a large revival and people getting saved because someone preached something out of a greek and hebrew text to english speaking and hearing people....?
2. All major revivals have stopped since the new bibles have flooded the markets. And you can expect the revivals to stay dead as well.
3. God has blessed and honered His KJV Bible over all others for the past 401 years, and this is irrefutable to any honest Christian. ALL major soul winners used the KJV: D. L. Moody, Billy Sunday, Charles Finny, Wesley, Charles Spurgeon, and even Billy Graham before he turned into an apostate.
4. Your Hebrew and Greek translinear is still just a copy of another copy, of another 100 different copies. You are trusting in blind faith in the editors of the translinear that they really put together the textus receptis. The fact is, there are no original manuscripts or even scraps of manuscripts vellum or paparus that has survived since the first letters were wrote.

EVERYTHING is a copy of another copy. There are no original penned books or letters of the Holy Bible today. NONE. The oldest we have is a 90ad piece of Mark I believe, which too is just a copy or two of the Gospel of Mark wrote in 60 ad.

So this leds us to just what is God's word for the English speaking people then? It is simple.

I use the KJV because it IS the Bible God Himself USES. See point 3. God uses the KJV over any other english bibles combined 3 fold. This too is undeniable. So if nothing else, use the KJV because God uses it, and because the Christian critics HATE it.

Is my CLV (Concordance Literal Version), which aligns much more closely with the originals than does the KJV, an unauthorized and ungodly version?

Show me the "originals"....and I'll tell you. Be careful playing this game with me though.......this is my bread and butter. But if you really want to learn, I will be happy to help.
The CLV offers more of a interpretation than a word for word translation of the TR. I would be wary of it. I can post you about 10 verses from it that might make you want to dump it.....

reply to post by SisyphusRide


Excellent, that's the most powerful way to study the Word IMO,

Strongs Concordance + Greek/Hebrew Translit + KJV = perfection

reply to post by KJV1611


Legitimate points,

I always study with my AV handy for reference, or just straight outta the AV,

Amen