Bible Answers to Member Questions

Originally posted by KJV1611
More research from other thread. Read if you like, but these are just for me so I have all these answers in the same place.

Biblical Canon:

Jesus Christ himself has already stated what the "Canon" is:

LUKE 24:27, 44
"And beginning at MOSES and all the prophets, he expounded unto them in all the scriptures the things concerning himself."

"44 And he said unto them, These are the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of MOSES, and in the prophets, and in the psalms, concerning me. "

Law of Moses: Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Deut., Numbers...
Prophets: You know them all, Isaiah, Ezekiel, Daniel, etc...
Psalms: Job, Proverbs, Psalms, Ecclesiastes, Song of Solomon.

Most of the other books are History: Kings, Chronicles, Ruth, Ezra, etc.

So as you can see, the Canon is very much defined. Just because there are other books written during the same time, does not make them canon. So just because you don't know what Biblical Canon is, doesn't mean Christian don't.

LUKE 16:29, 31
"29 Abraham saith unto him, They have MOSES and the prophets; let them hear them.
31 And he said unto him, If they hear not MOSES and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded"

edit on 28-3-2011 by KJV1611 because: (no reason given)

Hmm, thats interesting because the church says Kings, Chronicles, Ruth. Ezra etc....were Infact Cannon scriptures not History...

CANON LX.

THESE are all the books of Old Testament appointed to be read: 1, Genesis of the world; 2, The Exodus from Egypt; 3, Leviticus; 4, Numbers; 5, Deuteronomy; 6, Joshua, the son of Nun; 7, Judges, Ruth; 8, Esther; 9, Of the Kings, First and Second; 10, Of the Kings, Third and Fourth; 11, Chronicles, First and Second; 12, Esdras, First and Second; 13, The Book of Psalms; 14, The Proverbs of Solomon; 15, Ecclesiastes; 16, The Song of Songs;17, Job; 18, The Twelve Prophets; 19, Isaiah; 20, Jeremiah, and Baruch, the Lamentations, and the Epistle; 21, Ezekiel; 22, Daniel.

And these are the books of the New Testament: Four Gospels, according to Matthew, Mark, Luke and John; The Acts of the Apostles; Seven Catholic Epistles, to wit, one of James, two of Peter, three of John, one of Jude; Fourteen Epistles of Paul, one to the Romans, two to the Corinthians, one to the Galatians, one to the Ephesians, one to the Philippians, one to the Colossians, two to the Thessalonians, one to the Hebrews, two to Timothy, one to Titus, and one to Philemon.

What say you KJV?

reply to post by Akragon


No, no, no. I am misunderstood! All 66 books in the King James Bible are Canon, and just because I didn't mention every book BY NAME does not mean I think there not canon.

The verses I posted showed what the generally canon is. By the way, ever looked into how the early church fathers (not catholics ) decided what should be canon and what shouldn't? I'm talking years 60-120 AD, not post 325 AD at any "Council" set up by Roman pagans.

If any book/gospel/letter showed up and contradicted known Biblical canon, it was trashed. Or at the very most placed in between testaments in the original King James Bible, showing that they were not part of the Bible.

Out goes all the gospels other than the 4 there are now, out goes the apocrypha, book of Enoch, etc.

All 66 books in the Authorized Versions we have today are in fact canon.

reply to post by KJV1611


Isn't the Vatican considered the authority on the bible?

Im pretty sure they're catholic...right?

reply to post by KJV1611


well it does seem a bit odd to me that god would be upset that they built a tall building since there were many other tall buildings and certainly mts, that were much taller. and if tall buildings were a problem, he'd have brought all the tall buildings down. i did some research on it in the original late akkadian language (cuneiform), during which it was called BABILU (EL=ILU), and strangely enough the glyph for ILU or EL in the word, which normally would coincide with god, in the gate of god phrase, is actually the same symbol for star. so then the phrase would read, gate of star. which didn't make sense, till i changed the order around and it read star gate.

this excerpt from the movie, stargate, has kinda the same idea


link
www.youtube.com...

reply to post by KJV1611


Your latest about wine blows me away, and I must agree with you completely in that wine has a life/death cycle taking it from fresh juice to vinegar. I may have gotten ahead of myself, and should have stressed that my father also knew all that, and concluded that the wine at certain times must have been wine with alcohol simply because of the season. As they say, JUST SAYIN'.

Originally posted by undo
reply to post by KJV1611

 

well it does seem a bit odd to me that god would be upset that they built a tall building since there were many other tall buildings and certainly mts, that were much taller. and if tall buildings were a problem, he'd have brought all the tall buildings down. i did some research on it in the original late akkadian language (cuneiform), during which it was called BABILU (EL=ILU), and strangely enough the glyph for ILU or EL in the word, which normally would coincide with god, in the gate of god phrase, is actually the same symbol for star. so then the phrase would read, gate of star. which didn't make sense, till i changed the order around and it read star gate.

How tall was the Tower,anyway? The Book of Jasher states that it was so tall, that by the time it was abandoned, a full year was required to haul a load of bricks from the bottom to the top. If a brick fell, people cried, if a worker fell, no one cared. The Tower was an Idol for sure, but if it was a Stargate as you say, why did it need to be tall? It wasn't high-tech either, but a mud-brick structure. What Jasher says is probably an exaggeration, like Ubar. Ubar (the "Atlantis of the Sands") was a mythical city in a remote part of Oman, said to be a great city with many, soaring towers. When it was found in recent years, the real city was MUCH less impressive.

reply to post by Lazarus Short


well this is how i came to the theories i have on it.

1. if the bottomless pit is the abyss and
2. if the abyss is the abzu and
3. if the abzu is synonymous with babel
4. what they were doing is rebuilding a gate temple, beneath which was an abzu gate. the temple had been destroyed in the flood and the gate buried, and it was access to the gate system, that was the problem.

at that point i had to determine size. it dawned on me that there must be varying sizes, since some appeared to be appropriate for the passage of things no bigger than a tall human (no taller than like 20 ft max), and some seemed to be big enough to allow the passage of a huge army of metal flying monstrosities (and even in the texts regarding the arrival of enki, he arrives thru the abzu gate in an entirely metal, flying floating, hovering, roaring, glowing temple, which would suggest a very large gate, this was one of the big ones, in particular, this would've been the one on the bottom of the persian gulf, which would be currently covered up by euphrates silt deposition and coincide with the bottomless pit of revelation 9)

the gates are theoretically capable of generating traversable wormholes.

reply to post by undo


Sounds like Sitchin...there are a lot of "ifs" in there.

reply to post by KJV1611

I,can't post threads yet,so I,Am posting here if okay,I,love god and I,believe in truth.
godkind.org... need to know the truth. Jesus said to do the festivals,and his memorial,not his birthday.we are to do the passover........pagan-holidays.html,on the godkind .org.If wasn't for the Jews we wouldn't have Jesus,or the bible,or the prophets and other things.I,am a Christian,I, believe in my bible,not what mankind says.Mankind has forgotten laws and what he said to do. Also NO ONE,knows when Jesus is coming back,except god!..Also you can only get to heaven is through JESUS CHRIST! Also,you must be washed by his blood,ask forgiveness,leave your sins at the cross.Be baptist,walk the walk,talk the talk,like Jesus said to do.you must pray good and bad times.fasting is a must.HE also said what you do to mankind you do to him. Also,Jesus is the son of god, John:16-17.BUT I,do believe Jesus created the heavens and earth for god,his father.Also,when Jesus said I AM IN THE TEMPLE,IS THE SAME ONE THAT TALKED AT THE BUSH TO MOSES. God is in control,but like Jesus said he sits on the right hand of his father.He does what his and our father tells him what to do.Just like i am Mom,I,tell my kids what to do.I,Do believe we are in the end times,watch the media,but don't trust them,trust your god,your bible.I,do believe also that the Antichrist is in the wings.We need to get back to truth og gods words,mankind changes them them to fit their needs.We must pray to god,talk to him,he does listen and he still answers prayer.Watch for false preachers,like Jesus said.If,they don't go by the bible,you need to leave that church. Revelations, Daniel,mica,thess.ALL THE BOOKS,THAT TELL OF THE END,we must study and read upon them.Beware of things around you,always check on truth,make sure you aren't lied to.Like Jesus said,they are wolves in sheep skins.When Jesus comes we will know it,lighting and thunder,and his feet touches Mt.Miroah.I,do believe in the rapture.As soon as I,can do threads I,will post a lot of things.Just remember,if you celebrate EASTER,that was the day our dear JESUS DIED FOR ALL OF OUR SINS.BY him doing this by all his stripes we are healed to.Also his precious blood washed all our sins away.But we must ask forgiveness to recieve this,to be added into the book of life.Now,I,am not saying its going to be easy,but the holy spirit will help you and Jesus will be with you always,Seek and you shall find, he said.Its so simple,to find god,mankind has made it hard.Thank goodness for the grace,love and mercy god has given.Because we all have sinned and come short of the glory of god.But because of Jesus died on the cross gave us a second chance.If we can't everyone,how do expect god to forgive you.Remember to do unto others as you want them to do to you.I,stand with Israel and I,love Israel.god said whoever curses Israel,he will curse them,whosoever stands with Israel,he will bless.I,would any how,because I,am a Christian.I,thank god everyday for everything,even if things are going wrong. Also,I,try to find something good in all bad things.I,also don't judge,I,leave that to god. I,may not agree with certain things,I,will show respect and pray for those things or for the people.I,do believe we should be able to practice our faith ,like any others get to practice their faith.I,do think our government is wrong,for trying to stop us,for praying and our 10 commandments,everyone else can have their ways,we should be able to.There is so many threads,I'd like to post.Maybe soon,I,will be able to.Love your thread here.Thank you for letting me reply.

reply to post by venusstarlite


I don't know why, but your post impels me to post something I had written some time ago:

Socrates taught Plato, Plato taught Aristotle, and Aristotle tutored the son of Phillip of Macedon. This boy grew up to become Alexander the Great, largely by slaughtering a lot of people. That's Philosophy.

Jesus blessed the poor, fed the hungry, healed the sick, and even raised the dead. He laid his own life down so that we could inherit eternity. He returned to tell us to love one another. That's Religion

Laz

reply to post by undo


The confusion you seem to be having is that there is a J and E source both in the same story. In Genesis Noah is clearly commanded as so:

Genesis 6:19

And of every living thing of all flesh, two of every [sort] shalt thou bring into the ark, to keep [them] alive with thee; they shall be male and female.

Source

It must be that these are either two separate stories smashed together (not unheard of amongst Bible scholars) or that there is a requirement to take two of every animal and then a separate sacrifice.

Now, the problem is that Hebrew, like all semitic languages, has words that aren't just single meanings. In my people's tongue "Hallini" means "Leave me alone"...now, leave me alone is three words, but "Hallini" is one. Semitic languages are more consolidated, you have to examine grammar within the language itself.

God commands at least two of every animal.

From Blue Letter Bible, a list of versions of this quote.

NKJV: "And of every living thing of all flesh you shall bring two of every sort into the ark, to keep them alive with you; they shall be male and female.

NLT: Bring a pair of every kind of animal—a male and a female—into the boat with you to keep them alive during the flood.

NIV: You are to bring into the ark two of all living creatures, male and female, to keep them alive with you.

ESV: And of every living thing of all flesh, you shall bring two of every sort into the ark to keep them alive with you. They shall be male and female.

RVR: Y de todo lo que vive, de toda carne, dos de cada especie meterás en el arca, para que tengan vida contigo; macho y hembra serán.

NASB: "And of every living thing of all flesh, you shall bring two of every kind into the ark, to keep them alive with you; they shall be male and female.

RSV: And of every living thing of all flesh, you shall bring two of every sort into the ark, to keep them alive with you; they shall be male and female.

ASV: And of every living thing of all flesh, two of every sort shalt thou bring into the ark, to keep them alive with thee; they shall be male and female.

YNG: and of all that liveth, of all flesh, two of every [sort] thou dost bring in unto the ark, to keep alive with thee; male and female are they.

DBY: And of every living thing of all flesh, two of every [sort] shalt thou bring into the ark, to keep [them] alive with thee: they shall be male and female.

WEB: And of every living thing of all flesh, two of every [sort] shalt thou bring into the ark, to keep [them] alive with thee: they shall be male and female.

HNV: Of every living thing of all flesh, you shall bring two of every sort into the teivah, to keep them alive with you. They shall be male and female.

VUL: et ex cunctis animantibus universae carnis bina induces in arcam ut vivant tecum masculini sexus et feminini

WLC: וּמִכָּל־הָחַי מִֽכָּל־בָּשָׂר שְׁנַיִם מִכֹּל תָּבִיא אֶל־הַתֵּבָה לְהַחֲיֹת אִתָּךְ זָכָר וּנְקֵבָה יִֽהְיֽוּ׃

LXX: καὶ ἀπὸ πάντων τῶν κτηνῶν καὶ ἀπὸ πάντων τῶν ἑρπετῶν καὶ ἀπὸ πάντων τῶν θηρίων καὶ ἀπὸ πάσης σαρκός δύο δύο ἀπὸ πάντων εἰσάξεις εἰς τὴν κιβωτόν ἵνα τρέφῃς μετὰ σεαυτοῦ ἄρσεν καὶ θῆλυ ἔσονται

In none of these versions does the language say anything but "Take two of every type of animal"...though the level of distinction is a bit vague, as the ancient Hebrews didn't know anything about biological classification.

reply to post by undo


...kol. Every. It's there. I showed you. It's there. You can say it's not there, but it is.

reply to post by undo


Which is why it wouldn't have been sea worthy. Why?

These videos which taught me a lot about ship building really explain it best.

"To Build an Ark pt 1"



"To Build an Ark pt 2"



Granted, I already posted these in another thread and the only response I got was "Well, it just seems Noah knew more about ship building", which is just downright stupid.

reply to post by madnessinmysoul


personally I think it's symbolic for an ultimate reality

But as the days of Noah were, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be.

For this is as the waters of Noah unto me: for as I have sworn that the waters of Noah should no more go over the earth; so have I sworn that I would not be wroth with thee, nor rebuke thee.

For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.

And the earth helped the woman, and the earth opened her mouth, and swallowed up the flood which the dragon cast out of his mouth.

reply to post by madnessinmysoul


i've read the source differences. it's interesting!
however, i still maintain that the original did not say every sort nor all.
and although i realize hebrew words were often complex, when you look up the words
that were in the original, they are not compounded or nested, to suggest all or
of every sort. it was a bad flood, of that there's no doubt, but it wasn't so bad
that all life was wiped out, just areas along the major waterways (where most
civilization was at the time). it was bad enough, that the farm animals
were saved from the flood. this is not an unusual thing what makes it unusual is
the rest of the detail.

here's the epic of gilgamesh version as it relates to the dimensions of the ark and how it was
launched

It was a field in area,
its walls were each 10 times 12 cubits in height,
the sides of its top were of equal length, 10 times It cubits each.
I laid out its (interior) structure and drew a picture of it (?).
I provided it with six decks,
thus dividing it into seven (levels).
The inside of it I divided into nine (compartments).
I drove plugs (to keep out) water in its middle part.
I saw to the punting poles and laid in what was necessary.
Three times 3,600 (units) of raw bitumen I poured into the
bitumen kiln,
three times 3,600 (units of) pitch ...into it,
there were three times 3,600 porters of casks who carried (vege-
table) oil,
apart from the 3,600 (units of) oil which they consumed (!)
and two times 3,600 (units of) oil which the boatman stored
away.
I butchered oxen for the meat(!),
and day upon day I slaughtered sheep.
I gave the workmen(?) ale, beer, oil, and wine, as if it were
river water,
so they could make a party like the New Year's Festival.
... and I set my hand to the oiling(!).
The boat was finished by sunset.
The launching was very difficult.
They had to keep carrying a runway of poles front to back,
until two-thirds of it had gone into the water(?).
Whatever I had I loaded on it:
whatever silver I had I loaded on it,
whatever gold I had I loaded on it.
All the living beings that I had I loaded on it,
I had all my kith and kin go up into the boat,
all the beasts and animals of the field and the craftsmen I
had go up.

www.ancienttexts.org...

since my theory is that adam was an entire race, it's entirely possible there were several noahs, who were responsible for saving wild life and people from their area.

Originally posted by Lazarus Short
reply to post by undo

 

Sounds like Sitchin...there are a lot of "ifs" in there.

well bottomless pit is abyss. so i just said IF as a manner of speech.
same for abyss and abzu, per samuel noah kramer, the first assyriologist to decipher sumerian cuneiform.
the word babel is a much later word. the original word was KA.DINGIR.RA

books.google.com... STdG-J4fOtwejvOFY&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=9&ved=0CE8Q6AEwCA#v=onepage&q=KA.DINGIR.RA&f=false

Originally posted by madnessinmysoul These videos which taught me a lot about ship building really explain it best.

They don't explain much. The video narrator states "There is nothing to argue about." Well, there is. He seems to know a bit about ship architecture, but little to nothing about ancient technology. He simply imposed his own opinion on things, assuming bronze age technology, assuming inferior wood, assuming bronze can't possibly be as strong as steel, assuming Noah built and launched the Ark in the Middle East. The construction of the Ark was done with antediluvian wood, antediluvian technology, and antediluvian design. There has been no object like it in history, so an analogy from ship design is useless and misleading. By his logic the Great Pyramid could not possibly exist because it contains carved granite, and granite can not be carved with copper, and we know that the ancient Egyptians did not have iron tools, because it was the bronze age. Funny, iron has been found in the GP...

Originally posted by KJV1611

Originally posted by brindle
Why were all jesus drinking buddies declared saints?

Jesus never drank wine. This common misconception comes from the Gospel of John 2:1-10.
Read the story and tell me where he drunk wine.
Also, if he would have given his friends fermented wine, such as liquor as most people equate this with, he would have broken and old testament law.

HABAKKUK 2:15
"Woe unto him that giveth his neighbour drink, that puttest thy bottle to him, and makest him drunken also, that thou mayest look on their nakedness! "

Anyone knows if grape juice sits out in the sun and has a chance to ferment, it turns to booze. New wine, which Jesus made was fresh grape juice. Read verse 10 again of John chapter 2 to see the old, and new wine contrast.

Last part of your question is simple. All Christians are saints. Once you accept Jesus Christ as your personal savior, you become a saint. No man can make another man a saint, regardless of what the catholic church teaches and worships.

edit on 21-3-2011 by KJV1611 because: (no reason given)

I have to diagree with you there. Matthew 11:19 says 'The Son of man came eating and drinking, and they say, Behold a man gluttonous, and a winebibber, a friend of publicans and sinners. But wisdom is justified of her children.'

There is no biblical prohibition against drinking, and Scripture does not necessarily forbid a Christian from drinking beer, wine, or any other drink containing alcohol. In fact, some Scriptures discuss alcohol in positive terms. Ecclesiastes 9:7 instructs, “Drink your wine with a merry heart.” Psalm 104:14-15 states that God gives wine “that makes glad the heart of men.” Amos 9:14 discusses drinking wine from your own vineyard as a sign of God’s blessing. Isaiah 55:1 encourages, “Yes, come buy wine and milk…”

Alcohol is not, in and of itself, tainted by sin. It is drunkenness and addiction to alcohol that a Christian must absolutely refrain from (Ephesians 5:18; 1 Corinthians 6:12).


As for Habakkuk 2:15, you are clearly using a bible verse out of context. This is the full verse:

2:15 "Woe to you who make your neighbors drink, Who mix in your venom even to make them drunk So as to look on their nakedness! 16 "You will be filled with disgrace rather than honor. Now you yourself drink and expose your own nakedness. The cup in the LORD'S right hand will come around to you, And utter disgrace will come upon your glory. 17 "For the violence done to Lebanon will overwhelm you, And the devastation of its beasts by which you terrified them, Because of human bloodshed and violence done to the land, To the town and all its inhabitants.

The key to understanding this passage is to consider the other places in the Old Testament where similar expressions are used: look, see, or uncover the nakedness of another. And, interestingly, in most cases this expression refers not to sexual desire, but to bringing shame on someone else. Indeed, in many cases this expression is used of the bringing of shame upon a city, or all the people of Israel, not an individual.

It really has nothing to do with a prohibition on sharing wine with anyone else...

Originally posted by loves a conspiricy
Another question...whys there so many contradictions in all versions of the bible?? If its gods word....why would he make so many mistakes and contradictions?

For example :

Is Jesus equal to or lesser than?

JOH 10:30 I and my Father are one.

JOH 14:28 Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I.

Draw a circle. Now draw a circle inside the other circle. They are as one, yet one is greater than the other.