The Point of Jesus

I just have a biblical discussion topic since i know all of us at ATS love these.
What exactly is the reason to go to church or be a good person? The Bible says that "God" will forgive us for all of our sins.

"For if you forgive men when they sin against you, your heavenly Father will also forgive you. But if you do not forgive men their sins, your Father will not forgive your sins. Matthew 6:14-15 "

So by this reasoning all we have to do is forgive people who piss us off and we are in the clear. Sounds like the only reasons for church are to give priests something to play around with at sunday school and a paycheck for the organ player.

I think there is something in there about belief as well and adhering to the laws but I am not a religious buff at all. To be frank on the order of forgiveness it is more for you then the other person. Holding long grudges is just only going to raise your blood pressure and eventually kill you not the other person a whole lot sooner. Just saying though.

people talk about beliefs and adhering to a set of laws set up by the bible all the time, but what does that get us other than a wasted sunday better used for sleeping and 5 mcdoubles lost in a silver pass-around-tray.

i think you are correct.

organized religion has done horrible things to the original teachings of the bible.

the bible itself is a good thing, with good moral stories, and a nice way to do things. (don't beat me up on that line please)

religion, and greed, and corruption took the bible over, and perverted it to their own sick ends....to cause war, control people, and make trillions of dollars.

so be good, be nice, don't steal, don't kill, and if you have the faith of a mustard seed, then you will be saved

a lot of words are taken out of context as well...like saved....to be saved just means to be enlightened......not writhing around on the floor with a greasy preachers hand on your forhead

reply to post by iheartprplkoolaid


You probably missed where I said I am not a religious buff, in fact the last time I was in a church was my niece and nephew's christening a year ago. That being said Deuteronomy has a number of laws that Jewish people as well as Christians are supposed to adhere to. Not to mention the New testament stuff, but I think the passage you refer to is just another way to say Love thy neighbor as thy self. It is kind of one of those love things. If you love people apparently it grants you some access to the key of grace as it's sometimes called. But, without belief according again to the New Testament there is no access to the key of heaven. That is what is said anyways but who knows.


DAFTED BY EDIT!

yes i also havent been to church for a long long while because of this. I dont believe in much of anything that has to do with magic, voodoo, smoke and/or mirrors, or anything that has the word "holy" in it. which is roughly 110% what a church is based on.

Originally posted by iheartprplkoolaid
I just have a biblical discussion topic since i know all of us at ATS love these.
What exactly is the reason to go to church or be a good person? The Bible says that "God" will forgive us for all of our sins.

"For if you forgive men when they sin against you, your heavenly Father will also forgive you. But if you do not forgive men their sins, your Father will not forgive your sins. Matthew 6:14-15 "

So by this reasoning all we have to do is forgive people who piss us off and we are in the clear. Sounds like the only reasons for church are to give priests something to play around with at sunday school and a paycheck for the organ player.

Ding!

But this isn't the point of Jesus.....Perhaps you should rename the topic, "the point of the church"

reply to post by Akragon


i only say "the point of jesus" to also mean that most religions pose "jesus" or "mary" AS their church. kind of a 2 birds one stone thing. also leaves people open to specifically talk about jesus if they want.

Originally posted by iheartprplkoolaid
reply to post by Akragon

 

i only say "the point of jesus" to also mean that most religions pose "jesus" or "mary" AS their church. kind of a 2 birds one stone thing. also leaves people open to specifically talk about jesus if they want.

whos talking about religion here?

noone yet. this post needs to explode with some "jesus freaks"

As a branching topic for those interested, this fabulous essay from Emerson. It's one of the most inspiring things I've read in some time.

The Sovereignty of Ethics
The Complete Works of RWE - X - Lectures and Biographical Sketches

Shall I make the mistake of baptizing the day-light, and time, and space, by the name of John or Joshua, in whose tent I chance to behold daylight, and space, and time ? What anthropomorphists we are in this, that we cannot let moral distinctions be, but must mould them into human shape! "Mere morality" means, - not put into a personal master of morals. Our religion is geographical, belongs to our time and place : respects and mythologizes some one time and place and person and people. So it is occasional. It visits us only on some exceptional and ceremonial occasion, on a wedding or a baptism, on a sick-bed, or at a funeral, or perhaps on a sublime national victory or a peace. But that be sure is not the religion of the universal unsleeping providence, which lurks in trifles, in still, small voices, in the secrets of the heart and our closest thoughts, as efficiently as in our proclamations and successes.

The religion of seventy years ago was an iron belt to the mind, giving it concentration and force. A rude people were kept respectable by the determination of thought on the eternal world. Now men fall abroad, - want polarity, - suffer in character and intellect. A sleep creeps over the great functions of man. Enthusiasm goes out. In its stead a low prudence seeks to hold society staunch, but its arms are too short, cordage and machinery never supply the place of life.

www.rwe.org...&-biographical-sketches/the-sovereignty-of-ethics

reply to post by Northwarden


good addition to the post. i like it. thanks.

reply to post by iheartprplkoolaid


You don't have to go to church. The Bible says you can make your own church right in your home. That what you said is all you have to do. It even says to pray in secret so that no one hears you in some situations. For Jesus, church was wherever he sat down and started telling stories.

People go to church because the Bible says it is good for believers to be around and meet other believers. Think of it like any club house. It's like asking, why does the car club have to meet at the garage? Why do Freemasons have to meet at the lodge? Why do some kids meet up in the tree house? Well cause that's just where they meet and they want to. They don't have to.

But if you attend you should tithe. Just like any other club that has membership fees. It provides services that everyone takes advantage of and costs have to be covered. The only difference is, in church it's optional. You can be broke as crap, and still welcomed. In my church anyway.

Also, you can READ! Which may not seem like a big deal now, but remember, almost everyone being able to read is a pretty new thing and an aspect of modern society. In some parts of the world many people are still illiterate and not too many generations ago that's the way it was all over.

Sure the philosophers and scribes and the educated could read and write, but most people weren't educated.

Church was important so that the priest or preacher could read the Bible to the people and tell them about their religion. This was just easy to do at church. Of course the catholic church took advantage of this and mislead the people as to what the Bible said for a while. But that's not really the Bible's fault.

But anyway, there was a time when the church was very important for actually getting the word to the people. Now it's still important for helping us understand it. Sure I can read the Bible, but I'm not a scholar and don't know all the history as say a preacher or pastor that has went to school for it and can put it in context. If I come across something in the Bible I don't understand I can just ask the church leaders and if they already know I can share their knowledge and learn or the topic can be discussed and we can all figure it out together maybe.

But it's not mandatory. What's the point of Jesus? Yes, if you just believe in Jesus' teachings and try to live by them you'll be fine. But the point was, before Jesus came along, that didn't work. All sin had to be paid for before Jesus. Now it's just forgiven. That was the point.

Let's get something straight since I can see your clearly unintelligent and bias. There's a difference between Christians and Catholics. Get them straight before you go frothing off at the mouth about things you have no clue off.


Posted Via ATS Mobile: m.abovetopsecret.com

reply to post by tinfoilman


Good post. I just feel better when I go to church because it's just nice to go and have people pray for you and you for them. I seem to be able to handle stress of the week better.

reply to post by maybee


That's good. Anything that helps with stress is a definite plus. Helps me stay in contact with friends too that I might not see any other way that week then if I went. Usually to get me out of bed though the wife has to tempt me with food and promise to get lunch after words. But after that I'm good to go lol.

Originally posted by iheartprplkoolaid
So by this reasoning all we have to do is forgive people who piss us off and we are in the clear. Sounds like the only reasons for church are to give priests something to play around with at sunday school and a paycheck for the organ player.

Sorry, but not quite. This is ONE thing that Jesus commanded among many others...

1. "FORGIVE EVERYBODY OF ALL THEIR OFFENSES AGAINST YOU."
(Forgive, and be forgiven. you nailed it)
2. "YOU MUST BE BORN AGAIN."
3. "ABIDE IN ME, AND LET ME ABIDE IN YOU."
4. "LET PEOPLE SEE YOUR GOOD WORKS." (Do not hide your light
under a basket.)
5. "END DISPUTES QUICKLY."
6. "WHATEVER CAUSES YOU TO SIN, GET RID OF IT."
7. "DO NOT SWEAR OATHS AT ALL."
8. "DO NOT RETURN OFFENSE FOR OFFENSE." (Turn the other cheek.)
9. "GIVE WHAT PEOPLE ASK OF YOU, AND GIVE MORE THAN IS REQUIRED."
(Go the extra mile.)
10. "LOVE YOUR ENEMIES AND THOSE WHO WORK AGAINST YOU."
11. "GIVE TO THE POOR TO PLEASE GOD, NOT TO GAIN APPROVAL
FROM OTHER PEOPLE."
12. "PRAY PRIVATELY AND SIMPLY, NOT TO IMPRESS OTHER PEOPLE."
13. "MAKE YOUR PRAYERS BE LIKE THE LORD'S PRAYER."
14. "WHEN YOU FAST, DO IT SECRETLY, NOT FOR SHOW."
15. "STORE UP YOUR TREASURES IN HEAVEN, NOT ON EARTH."
16. "DO NOT WORRY ABOUT YOUR MATERIAL NEEDS."
17. "DO NOT WORRY ABOUT THE FUTURE."
18. "MAKE GOD YOUR HIGHEST PRIORITY, AND HE WILL TAKE CARE OF
ALL YOUR NEEDS."
19. "DO NOT JUDGE OTHER PEOPLE." (Judge not, lest ye be judged.)
20. "DO NOT GIVE HOLY THINGS TO DOGS OR CAST YOUR PEARLS
BEFORE SWINE."
21. "ASK GOD FOR WHATEVER YOU WANT TO HAVE." (Seek, and ye shall
find.)
22. "FEED THE HUNGRY, CLOTHE THE NAKED, SHELTER THE HOMELESS,
COMFORT THOSE IN DISTRESS."
23. "FOLLOW THE NARROW PATH TO LIFE." (Enter by the narrow gate.)
24. "BEWARE OF FALSE PROPHETS."
25. "EXERCISE POWER OVER UNCLEAN SPIRITS."
26. "LOVE LITTLE CHILDREN, DO NOT DESPISE THEM."
27. "DO NOT TAKE THE TITLES 'MASTER' OR 'FATHER' FOR YOURSELF."
28. "RESOLVE DISPUTES IN AN ORDERLY WAY, LIKE THIS . . . "
29. "DO NOT OPPOSE OTHER BELIEVERS IN CHRIST WHO ARE NOT IN YOUR
GROUP."
30. "HAVE TOTAL FAITH IN GOD FOR EVERYTHING."
31. "BE LIKE THE GOOD SAMARITAN." (Go, and do likewise.)
32. "LOVE OTHER PEOPLE AS I HAVE LOVED YOU"
33. "EAT BREAD AND DRINK WINE IN REMEMBRANCE OF ME."
34. "WASH ONE ANOTHER'S FEET."
35. "BE MERCIFUL."
36. "GO AND TEACH ALL NATIONS, BAPTIZING THEM."
37. "KEEP MY COMMANDMENTS."
38. "BE PREPARED FOR YOUR MASTER TO RETURN."

These are simply a few. Grab a bible and read the words in red...

The church is fellowship at it's simplest. Consider this...my brother loves football so he invites his friends over on Sundays to eat and hang out and watch the games...I love Jesus so I invite my friends over to worship and sing songs that remind us of Him...is it really all that different? Honestly?

A2D

The point of the "Jesus" character was to combine all the past God-Men into a newer one that was more digestable for wider audiences in earlier times to accept.

Thats why this "Jesus" modern god-man doesnt have any original or unique characteristics that the other god-men before him didnt. The new 'JC' man god is a copy of several earlier ones.

But some folks dont wish to accept this and want to believe their JC nonsense because its too much of a let-down not to live life thinking that praying and believing in some man-god will not get them eternal paradise.

Just for saying a few choice words despite their actions in life is ALL THAT THEY NEED to do to get ETERNAL PARADISE!!! What a joke.

Originally posted by pplrnuts
Just for saying a few choice words despite their actions in life is ALL THAT THEY NEED to do to get ETERNAL PARADISE!!! What a joke.

Well what would you have people do to get eternal paradise? Jumping jacks? It's more than just a few words. You have to try your best to live to according to the rules. For example, you can't just say you forgive someone. You actually have to forgive them. Which means becoming a different person on the inside. Such that you could actually forgive someone.

The whole thing is about changing your heart. Not just saying a few simple words. You have to believe them too.

EDIT: Also, you may be interested in this thread. www.abovetopsecret.com... Perhaps not though.

reply to post by pplrnuts


It's referred to as the narrow gate for a reason...

It's hard for me to forgive someone if they call my wife a [snip]
Even moreso to forgive those that refer to my God as [endless snip]

It's not as easy as it seems...

A2D