Shooting down Stealth/F22 and winning the war

originally posted by: asims33

originally posted by: victor7
a reply to: asims33

Don't worry, once the US fields the arena type systems the Russians will copy it somewhat and Chinese will steal the tech somehow. That is their modus operandi as their culture is not very innovative type. These two countries also suffer from high levels of corruption and thus little money is left for government to devote to new R&D etc.

I doubt if Russia can win any war even if it includes the nukes. They can do lots of damage but there is not point going to the level of nukes which can be devastating for the whole world for some time to come.

Im not sure if you are familiar with the HELLADs system but short of stealing the design i dont see an easy way for Russia to copy it any time soon... Or China.

Its a liquid based laser that is small enough to be placed on aircraft but powerful enough to destroy missiles almost instantly. I dont think Russia has ANY laser weapons while the USA has already fielded LaWS on some of our ships.

Another tech that China and Russia are very far behind in is Rail gun technology. This technology will negate any anti-cruise missile SAM technology.

Edit: I guess Russia does have some larger laser proto-types from the soviet era but that is a good 20 years behind the USA

a reply to: asims33
You and Vic have a vast amount of knowledge, you must be in the biz. I was very excited to have seen some tests recently and wondered what these systems were called. I bet the other superpowers have them all too. They are just more secretive.

originally posted by: earthdude
a reply to: asims33
You and Vic have a vast amount of knowledge, you must be in the biz. I was very excited to have seen some tests recently and wondered what these systems were called. I bet the other superpowers have them all too. They are just more secretive.

Most all super powers have very secret programs. The F-22 was started in the 1980s... Imagine what is being worked on by USA right now. I'm sure Russia has secret things too but from my experience as soon as Russia makes an advance in a technology they want to shout it from the roof tops and thump their chests while western nations prefer to keep it secret longer so that counter measures to the new weapons cant be made.

We are starting to see a new era of arms race now and while scary its also exciting. We will start hearing about new weapons even if they are never built. It is far cheaper for a nation like Russia or USA to fully develop a weapon and simply keep the plans and specifications than to actually build them and field the weapons.

We will start seeing new technologies made and countered over and over just like the cold war and when a technology is made and is so full proof that the other guy has a very hard time countering it. They will then produce the weapon.

Either way most all countries have secret programs and most all countries attempt to spy on each other's secrets. I cant wait to see the next gen weapons.

Edit: im not in the weapons business but i am however a pilot

i think the next major conflict between superpowers will be a suprise for the american military as they are already used to easy enemies who have nothing..

It will be so shocking to american troops used to have fire support and air support suddenly on the receiving end of altilery bombardment and aerial guided bombs from the enemy.

It will be so demoralizing to the remains of US military that they will lose the initiative and thus open itself to capitulation from foreign powers.

and a few EMP blast over US Continent will destroy it's civilization and economy in an instant, leaving the land open for the victors..

This will be a bigger repeat of the disabling of AEGIS ship donald cook by a single EW SU-24..

originally posted by: milomilo
i think the next major conflict between superpowers will be a suprise for the american military as they are already used to easy enemies who have nothing..

It will be so shocking to american troops used to have fire support and air support suddenly on the receiving end of altilery bombardment and aerial guided bombs from the enemy.

It will be so demoralizing to the remains of US military that they will lose the initiative and thus open itself to capitulation from foreign powers.

and a few EMP blast over US Continent will destroy it's civilization and economy in an instant, leaving the land open for the victors..

This will be a bigger repeat of the disabling of AEGIS ship donald cook by a single EW SU-24..

Wow the old Donald Cook story huh lmao. Has anyone found a credible source to this? Please provide one.

How would you propose delivery of EMPs to American Heartland?

And i love your speculation on the softness of American troops. They werent so soft in WW1, WW2, Korea, Vietnam, or Iraq. What experience does Russian troops have against a Super power? You think they will be just fine without air support? Last time i checked NATO had VAST air superiority over Russia.

Take your childish knowledge elsewhere.

a reply to: milomilo

I do think you have underestimated the American people and the power of the military. The entire branch of the Army could be wiped out by the 'enemy' and the US would still have hands down the strongest military forces on this planet.

An EMP blast might cause chaos in NYC and some other big cities, but the rural areas are largely self sufficient and it would barely have an effect on the daily life for millions and millions of Americans.

The greatest enemy to the USA comes from within.

a reply to: milomilo
Ever kick a hill of red ants? Did NOT kicking them make them any LESS potent?


The current progessive movement is trying to change the nature of the country so what you suggest WOULD be true were it allowed to continue unabated but we still rule conventional warfare...that and any such EMP would invite vaporization.
If you thought we made a big deal about 911 we haven't dusted off our TRUE capability since WWII.
NOBODY needs to see that.

originally posted by: cavtrooper7
a reply to: milomilo
Ever kick a hill of red ants? Did NOT kicking them make them any LESS potent?


The current progessive movement is trying to change the nature of the country so what you suggest WOULD be true were it allowed to continue unabated but we still rule conventional warfare...that and any such EMP would invite vaporization.
If you thought we made a big deal about 911 we haven't dusted off our TRUE capability since WWII.
NOBODY needs to see that.

what capabilty ? some CIA trained and sponsored arabs hit a few buildings and US go in rampage killing innocent civilians in iraq and afghanistan .. if this is what you called 'true capability' then i agreed, no other country is better in killing innocent unarmed civilians than USA.

US rule in conventional warfare ? last time US fought a low tech enemy in VIetnam , it got massacred and slaughtered and have to ran with it's tail between the legs..

originally posted by: jrod
a reply to: milomilo

I do think you have underestimated the American people and the power of the military. The entire branch of the Army could be wiped out by the 'enemy' and the US would still have hands down the strongest military forces on this planet.

An EMP blast might cause chaos in NYC and some other big cities, but the rural areas are largely self sufficient and it would barely have an effect on the daily life for millions and millions of Americans.

The greatest enemy to the USA comes from within.

it is you and other american who constantly overestimating your so called 'power' .. what strongest military force ? when it last fought a real war and won ? the last major war it fought was in vietnam and it was total defeat for this so called 'powerful US military'..

originally posted by: asims33


And i love your speculation on the softness of American troops. They werent so soft in WW1, WW2, Korea, Vietnam, or Iraq. What experience does Russian troops have against a Super power? You think they will be just fine without air support? Last time i checked NATO had VAST air superiority over Russia.

Take your childish knowledge elsewhere.

which NATO air superiority ? the one that killed gadhafi illegaly ?

there's once a very powerful nation with a great leader that easily defeated western nations and who thought he could conquer russia.. He was mistaken and the russian arrived in his capital and he commited suicide..

originally posted by: milomilo

originally posted by: asims33


And i love your speculation on the softness of American troops. They werent so soft in WW1, WW2, Korea, Vietnam, or Iraq. What experience does Russian troops have against a Super power? You think they will be just fine without air support? Last time i checked NATO had VAST air superiority over Russia.

Take your childish knowledge elsewhere.

which NATO air superiority ? the one that killed gadhafi illegaly ?

there's once a very powerful nation with a great leader that easily defeated western nations and who thought he could conquer russia.. He was mistaken and the russian arrived in his capital and he commited suicide..

This is why you should avoid these debates. Its idiots like you that throw out crap like "Conquer Russia" trust me, no western nation wants Russia lol.

Secondly, the same NATO that has F-22 and F-15, F-18, Typhoon, Rafael, F-35... should i continue?

You are so quick to bring up Vietnam, im curious where you are from and how accurate your history teachings are... We left Vietnam not because of losing but because our citizens and politicians got tired of supporting a war for people who wouldnt fight for them selves. I see you fail to mention Korea in which China and Russia both backed North Korea and they still couldnt defeat the USA.

How about Russia's little stint in Afghanistan? Didnt Russia tuck tail and run from that one? So if its fair to say USA lost in Vietnam its fair to say Russia lost in Afghanistan.

How about the first gulf war? You know the one where one of the largest armies in the world sporting Russian tech got completely destroyed by the USA?

Hitler was a great leader huh? You think Hitler's prideful and illogical advance into Russia (in which he did reach Moscow) while running short of supplies and being attacked on the western front by USA, Canada, and England was a smart thing for him to do?

Also, are you aware that Russia had higher casualties than any other nation in WWII.... Yeah, you sure showed them!

The United States military is far larger than Russia's and far more advanced regardless of what RT tells you. Now please, go sit on papa Putin's lap and let him tell you more lies. Rest easy though kid, the West isnt going to attack Russia, it has nothing we want.

originally posted by: asims33
We left Vietnam not because of losing but because our citizens and politicians got tired of supporting a war for people who wouldnt fight for them selves.

The poor showing of US military in vietnam and the eventual defeat is not something that average american can take in psychologically. After decades of being lied to by their own goverment , feeding lies about 'american exceptionalism' and 'american military superiority' , it is impossible to american psyche to accept their defeat gracefully. It is saddening and hilarious at the same time to see so many americans creating excuses after excuses for their total military defeat in vietnam.

For example, The Romans , a greater people and nation than USA , suffered massive defeats in the life of the nation. It is folly to think that american will always be victorious in wars , when history showed 2 example of american defeat, in Korea and in Vietnam. Only a weak minded people will constantly in denial on these historical facts.

I'm curious how much average american read their own history and make up their own mind, instead of accepting lies and propaganda from their goverment verbatim ?

originally posted by: milomilo

originally posted by: asims33
We left Vietnam not because of losing but because our citizens and politicians got tired of supporting a war for people who wouldnt fight for them selves.

The poor showing of US military in vietnam and the eventual defeat is not something that average american can take in psychologically. After decades of being lied to by their own goverment , feeding lies about 'american exceptionalism' and 'american military superiority' , it is impossible to american psyche to accept their defeat gracefully. It is saddening and hilarious at the same time to see so many americans creating excuses after excuses for their total military defeat in vietnam.

For example, The Romans , a greater people and nation than USA , suffered massive defeats in the life of the nation. It is folly to think that american will always be victorious in wars , when history showed 2 example of american defeat, in Korea and in Vietnam. Only a weak minded people will constantly in denial on these historical facts.

I'm curious how much average american read their own history and make up their own mind, instead of accepting lies and propaganda from their goverment verbatim ?

You are a lost cause my friend. And you are out for America because you know it is superior to Russia in every way. What was the last major conflict Russia won?

originally posted by: asims33

originally posted by: milomilo

originally posted by: asims33
We left Vietnam not because of losing but because our citizens and politicians got tired of supporting a war for people who wouldnt fight for them selves.

The poor showing of US military in vietnam and the eventual defeat is not something that average american can take in psychologically. After decades of being lied to by their own goverment , feeding lies about 'american exceptionalism' and 'american military superiority' , it is impossible to american psyche to accept their defeat gracefully. It is saddening and hilarious at the same time to see so many americans creating excuses after excuses for their total military defeat in vietnam.

For example, The Romans , a greater people and nation than USA , suffered massive defeats in the life of the nation. It is folly to think that american will always be victorious in wars , when history showed 2 example of american defeat, in Korea and in Vietnam. Only a weak minded people will constantly in denial on these historical facts.

I'm curious how much average american read their own history and make up their own mind, instead of accepting lies and propaganda from their goverment verbatim ?

You are a lost cause my friend. And you are out for America because you know it is superior to Russia in every way. What was the last major conflict Russia won?

im afraid i have to tell you that it is you who is blinded by these so called 'american exceptionalism' who got many american deluded into thinking their country is the best in everything and their country never lost a major war and other nations are less that the great american..

You realized that this evil doctrine 'american exceptionalism' is really very similar with the NAZI germany's ideology , just parsed with different wording.

Once you realised that america today is really the NAZI of 21st century, then you will know whats in store for america in the near future...

originally posted by: milomilo

originally posted by: asims33

originally posted by: milomilo

originally posted by: asims33
We left Vietnam not because of losing but because our citizens and politicians got tired of supporting a war for people who wouldnt fight for them selves.

The poor showing of US military in vietnam and the eventual defeat is not something that average american can take in psychologically. After decades of being lied to by their own goverment , feeding lies about 'american exceptionalism' and 'american military superiority' , it is impossible to american psyche to accept their defeat gracefully. It is saddening and hilarious at the same time to see so many americans creating excuses after excuses for their total military defeat in vietnam.

For example, The Romans , a greater people and nation than USA , suffered massive defeats in the life of the nation. It is folly to think that american will always be victorious in wars , when history showed 2 example of american defeat, in Korea and in Vietnam. Only a weak minded people will constantly in denial on these historical facts.

I'm curious how much average american read their own history and make up their own mind, instead of accepting lies and propaganda from their goverment verbatim ?

You are a lost cause my friend. And you are out for America because you know it is superior to Russia in every way. What was the last major conflict Russia won?

im afraid i have to tell you that it is you who is blinded by these so called 'american exceptionalism' who got many american deluded into thinking their country is the best in everything and their country never lost a major war and other nations are less that the great american..

You realized that this evil doctrine 'american exceptionalism' is really very similar with the NAZI germany's ideology , just parsed with different wording.

Once you realised that america today is really the NAZI of 21st century, then you will know whats in store for america in the near future...

Again you show how crazy you are. How is America the NAZI of the 21st century? Do you realize what the Nazis were? Do you know what they believed? So please, explain.

And can you answer my question? What was the last war Russia won?

a reply to: THE_PROFESSIONAL

So, what your saying is, that russian SAM technology is more than a match, for the air assets, of a country, that ROUTINELY wipes out russian SAM technology wherever it fins them? but if the iranians TRAIN really hard, they might live a fempto-second longer.

The best way to avoid having to use your SAM systems? Don't go at the US head on. We will KILL YOU. It's what CT's like me used to do, and they still do today!

Use the approach that works. Insurgency. Use woman and children for shields. Attack old men and women and children with assulat rifles, and all they have is they're hands and legs and hen blame it on the U.S.

also, you don't know dick about warfare. keep trying though. it sounded good!

originally posted by: milomilo

originally posted by: asims33

originally posted by: milomilo

originally posted by: asims33
We left Vietnam not because of losing but because our citizens and politicians got tired of supporting a war for people who wouldnt fight for them selves.

The poor showing of US military in vietnam and the eventual defeat is not something that average american can take in psychologically. After decades of being lied to by their own goverment , feeding lies about 'american exceptionalism' and 'american military superiority' , it is impossible to american psyche to accept their defeat gracefully. It is saddening and hilarious at the same time to see so many americans creating excuses after excuses for their total military defeat in vietnam.

For example, The Romans , a greater people and nation than USA , suffered massive defeats in the life of the nation. It is folly to think that american will always be victorious in wars , when history showed 2 example of american defeat, in Korea and in Vietnam. Only a weak minded people will constantly in denial on these historical facts.

I'm curious how much average american read their own history and make up their own mind, instead of accepting lies and propaganda from their goverment verbatim ?

You are a lost cause my friend. And you are out for America because you know it is superior to Russia in every way. What was the last major conflict Russia won?

im afraid i have to tell you that it is you who is blinded by these so called 'american exceptionalism' who got many american deluded into thinking their country is the best in everything and their country never lost a major war and other nations are less that the great american..

You realized that this evil doctrine 'american exceptionalism' is really very similar with the NAZI germany's ideology , just parsed with different wording.

Once you realised that america today is really the NAZI of 21st century, then you will know whats in store for america in the near future...

--
MILOMILO, the questioned was asked, when was the last major engagement the russians were in that makes them that much more experienced? answer the question.

You won't answer it. why?

Because like most folks like you, you guys have this tendency to throw out things of fighting weak enemies all the time but once you go up against a strong enemy....tell me, who is the strong enemy? what experience have they been racking up?
What your actually referring to is akin to a seasoned UFC fighter who's next opponent has trained but never been in an actual match before.

You can't win against experience.

The enemies America fights are by no means WEAK. Yes they may not have tech, but in its place they have ingenuity, Asymetric Warfare is a SOB, I dare you to sign up and try it out, I have in Afghan and its not fun....AT ALL.

Russians Destroyed American will to fight and kicked out American soldiers out of vietnam..
Russians and Chinese kicked American soldiers out of North Korea..
Russians Defeats the US & SAUDI covert fighters who aimed to destroy Syrian goverment.

need more examples ?

originally posted by: milomilo
Russians Destroyed American will to fight and kicked out American soldiers out of vietnam..
Russians and Chinese kicked American soldiers out of North Korea..
Russians Defeats the US & SAUDI covert fighters who aimed to destroy Syrian goverment.

need more examples ?

What US soldiers in Syria?

Russia kicked USA out of Vietnam... NOW i know for a fact you havent read a history book. By the way, what happened to Russia in Afghanistan? Korea? You realize China lost an ungodly amount of troops in Korea, its not a thing to brag about that it took Russian support and Chinese troops along with North Korean troops to even come close to defeating America, a feet that obviously didnt happen. And take a good look at Korea btw... Who was right in the end. North Korea (Communism) Is a # hole while South Korea is thriving.

At any rate, no one pushed the USA out of Korea, we are still there to this day jackass.

So when was the last war, that RUSSIAN TROOPS won? Not proxy wars like Vietnam or Korea, im talking about Russian military assets on the ground. When was the last one?