Chemtrail Debunkers....

reply to post by Jack Squat


it would be naive for me to ignore that something did infact mist down from the sky across an entire cemetary on me and my friend ... everyone surrounding me that i love and have known my entire life who i have learned to trust and care about feel ill on a strange cloud day that started with bright blue skies with no clouds in the forecast or predicted at all suddenly fills with ominous lines from airplanes ... then haze over with an odd static feeling in the air... the sky almost looked like a fire was going on somewhere which isnt uncommon here in california for that time of year but there were not grassfires or forestfires of that magnitude on this day... it would be naive to not question why a strange mist like cloud with grayish brown tint suddenly drops lower from altitude and begins to sprinkle fine mist of some nasty nausaeating particulates that smelled odd that gave me a headache, clammy hands, and sick to my stomach to the point we had to drive away from area... we were not even sure if we should report it or not... because who would actually take that serious with the valley floor there are many planes that crop dust... well this day with no cropdusters to be heard or seen anywhere in the sky and magically this falls from the sky on a haze day... you could see it thick in the air... if you were there you wouldnt be questioning ... i dont expect anyone who doesnt believe in chemtrails to suddenly believe they exist because what i have said here... i just want you to know that YOU are the one who should be keeping an open mind for i have been on your skeptical side and you could very well be wrong imo... Have a good day sir... which is politeness where i come from...

The official line is that Chemtrails do not exist--and that Evergreen Air is not involved. Evergreen Air a front group? That's ridiculous. Why do so many people have a hard time accepting this?!

www.freedom-won.net...

Originally posted by gloomyblue707
reply to post by Jack Squat

 

it would be naive to not question why a strange mist like cloud with grayish brown tint suddenly drops lower from altitude and begins to sprinkle fine mist of some nasty nausaeating particulates that smelled odd that gave me a headache, clammy hands, and sick to my stomach to the point we had to drive away from area...

Yes it would. I never said you shouldn't question it... I would as well had I been there to see it. It's assuming that it's chemtrails that is your folly. Why do you think it was only that one time and not every time there are chemtrails in the sky?

Originally posted by gloomyblue707
reply to post by Jack Squat

 

... i just want you to know that YOU are the one who should be keeping an open mind for i have been on your skeptical side and you could very well be wrong imo... Have a good day sir... which is politeness where i come from...

How can I be wrong about something that I haven't taken an official side on? I'm a fence sitter. And come on... you know what the tone behind "have a good day sir" was when you first said it.

reply to post by Mayura


In 1900, the average life expectancy was 50 yrs old. Currently, it's 77 yrs old. (for the U.S., for both sexes). If we are being sprayed, it doesn't seem to have affected this.

Yet, the chief motivation given by chemtrail theorists is that these substances are being sprayed to harm our health. And to what end? De-population? Surely increased amounts of unhealthy (but still alive) folks would put more of a burden on our system than the same number of healthy, productive individuals.???

In addition, there is no way to target those chosen for de-population vs. those you want to keep around with this method. Everyone is exposed...whether your name is Smith or Rockefeller.

reply to post by MathiasAndrew


I did watch all the videos, which is why I counted the ones it did. I wouldn't have done otherwise. It's why I knew which ones were about contrails, which ones were not, and which ones are repost.
You didn't need me making a video of me watching videos, did you? Perhaps you did. Sorry.
Please try it yourself. Do not count things reposted from other videos (and I watched them daily, so I knew), things about other fringe things, like UFOs, and things that are just talking heads about general paranoia. You can't recount the numerous times Tanker Enemy is reposted, the "What in the World are they Spraying" video (in part or whole). I was very lax in my choses to include.
My stats have stood since then. I've never had over 30% of the YouTube videos that come up when searching for "chemtrails". Ever. 30% of anything claimed as proof is crap stats.

reply to post by Gazrok

Yet, the chief motivation given by chemtrail theorists is that these substances are being sprayed to harm our health. And to what end? De-population? Surely increased amounts of unhealthy (but still alive) folks would put more of a burden on our system than the same number of healthy, productive individuals.???

How about to make people sick enough to pour lots more money into the pharmaceutical industry owned by the same people. Did you know that good ole Donald Rumsfeld was in charge of Searle pharmaceuticals (now Pfizer) from '77-'85 and that Searl was owned by Monsanto (the same company that has now come out with an aluminium resistant seed?) Or that he was chairman of Gilead Sciences, a biopharmaceutical company from 1997-2001? Or that aspartame (a known toxin) was approved for human use under his watch at Searle? Or that he was also former director at Amylin Pharmaceuticals? Or that he was former director at Gulfstream aerospace:

Gulfstream Aerospace Corporation is a producer of several models of jet aircraft. Gulfstream has been a unit of General Dynamics since 1999. The company has produced more than 1,500 aircraft for corporate, government, private, and military customers around the world.

Incidentally he also was a founding member of PNAC, member of the Bohemian club, board member of the Rand corporation, and Bilderberg group member,

Why depopulate when you can make people sick enough to increase your bottom line?

reply to post by coyotepoet

I'm not sick.
Am I special?

reply to post by gloomyblue707

you are trying to question people who are trying to voice opinion

No, it's people who want to present opinion as evidence or fact.

Your opinion that your experience is somehow the result of "chemtrails" is an opinion, nothing more.

How did you rule out any other possible explanations? What was the cause: chemical, electrical, a combination, psychological? Did everyone experience the same symptoms to the same extent? Did anyone have any other observations or different experiences? Have there been recurrences or sequelae? Were they consistent among the group, varied or altered?

All you offer is a conclusion, without support. Do you really expect reasonable people to discount everything else and accept your opinion, alone, at face value?

This is like the folks at the Hadley Institute/CRU, who say, "We don't know what could be causing global warming, so it must be us."

Opinions are welcome on ATS; I offer mine unflinchingly, and back them up without being asked. Presenting an opinion as a fact or a conclusion, without support, invites questions and critiques. Isn't that what ATS and science are about?

And if one member or a group of like-minded members wish to express and discuss their opinions in an open forum, what does it say about the strength of their convictions that they try their hardest to exclude and attack differing opinions, the members who dare to hold them, or their questions about the origin of the groups'?

jw

reply to post by Gazrok


Lets look at that point you just made and it is a valid one and I will try to offer a theory that may explain it.
Now in the news we all know what a bad problem there is in Japan and its the top topic so now is a good time to see what else is being slipped in while our attention is elsewhere.
Now there was a report of how a proposal of privatising the NHS which had been turned down which seams nothing to worry about.
Now if the NHS was privatised then it would be pharmaceutical company with the funds to be able to buy in.
Now lets say chemtrail's are real then it would likely involve one or more pharmaceutical company's.
Now if you make people ill then you will increase the need for drugs to cure you and that means big bucks for the producers of the said drugs ie the pharmaceutical company's.
As I've said this is just a theory and shouldn't be taken as truth more as a possible reason why.

reply to post by Phage


I'm not sick either but that doesn't meant that others aren't. A scientific study of 2 people-that goes a long way.

Originally posted by coyotepoet

How about to make people sick enough to pour lots more money into the pharmaceutical industry owned by the same people.

sure that's a hypothesis that can be discussed - so what is the evidence that that is actually happening??

What are the sicknesses? what is the frequency of occurrence of them in hte gneral population? How does that relate to teh deliver mechanisms? What are the agents that are being used to cause them? How are they being applied?

If they are in the atmosphere then I think you should be able to isolate/test/find them withotu too much bother - what efforts have been made to do so? what were the results? Were they also found elsewhere? How was the delivery mechanism identified and traced back to the suspect organisations?

reply to post by djcarlosa


There is no possible way that you can attribute that to "chemtrails". "Chemtrails" as shown in videos labeled as such are higher altitude. They are an aerosol, in the proper use of the word--very, very small particles of material in the atmosphere that are not gaseous. Aerosol does not mean sprayed; if you doubt that, please look it up. Based on the size of the particle, the terminal velocity is very low. That means it will be falling at it's fastest soon after forming. A diameter of something in what are called "chemtrails" would typically fall between 10 to 20 micrometers. This puts the terminal velocity at 0.3 to 1.2 cm per seconds. Something this small will also be blown by the slightest wind including any updrafts. In an absolutely still column of air, it would take anything from what you call a "chemtrail" 24 hours or longer to reach the earth's surface. When you add in the wind and the updrafts, there is a strong chance that nothing you see in what you call a "chemtrail" over your head will be anywhere near you, ever.
So unless you think "they" can control wind and gravity, you are mistaken. What is making you ill or taste metallic would be something around you already in your environment.

Originally posted by coyotepoet
reply to post by Gazrok

 

How about to make people sick enough to pour lots more money into the pharmaceutical industry owned by the same people. Did you know that good ole Donald Rumsfeld was in charge of Searle pharmaceuticals (now Pfizer) from '77-'85 and that Searl was owned by Monsanto (the same company that has now come out with an aluminium resistant seed?) Or that he was chairman of Gilead Sciences, a biopharmaceutical company from 1997-2001? Or that aspartame (a known toxin) was approved for human use under his watch at Searle? Or that he was also former director at Amylin Pharmaceuticals? Or that he was former director at Gulfstream aerospace:

OK, I'll bite. I'm going to take everything you've claimed as true so I don't have to repeat it.

But I have some questions:

Which people are sick? Where are they located? Who treats and diagnoses them? Who prescribed their treatment? Sick of what illness? Caused by what, when and over what time period?

What is the preferred treatment for said sickness? Where is it administered and how is it delivered? How is the treatment related to Searle?

Apply the same analysis to Monsanto, Gilead, et al and show me the rationale for using aircraft to deliver this agent of this illness.

Then, show me the means of delivery. Which aircraft, over what time period, in which areas, flown by or for whom?

How much does it take to initiate symptoms? What were the symptoms? Can you rank them by seriousness?

What is the mortality rate? For adults, children and by sex?

Merely throwing out names and dates like some "6 degrees of separation" game is not sufficient for any rational person to accept as conclusive of anything except incoherence of thought and a wild imagination.

Please tie these threads together for as as you must have already done so for yourself.

I'm not evengoing to ask you top tie these into "chemtrails:

Incidentally he also was a founding member of PNAC, member of the Bohemian club, board member of the Rand corporation, and Bilderberg group member,

deny ignorance
jw

reply to post by jdub297
[moreyou
Do you want me to go back in time and magically snap a photo of the event as proof? i never knew what was going to happen in the first place.. i already stated everyone i knew on that particular day was feeling extremely ill... was it flu season in mid august? possibly a one day flu eh? even my neighbor felt ill and admitted the clouds in the area were outta norm... my experiece is my proof... and i bring this to ATS... take it or leave it... no one said you are forced to believe what i say because i said it... and i welcome debate... its what ATS is all about... i dont need people questiong my understanding of how i comprehend things.. its a fact that something did indeed happen... maybe not to you ... i guess getting rained down funny stuff from the sky is normal in your neck of the woods.??. i obviously did come to the conclusion it was chemtrails out of narrowing down what it could of been like any rationale person would.god bless your interests... it seems like alot of people on here want fancy links and youtube videos as proof of conspiracy... i know what i saw ... you dont. Which would bring many skeptics because they obviously had no clue of what happend to me which is why i brought my personal experience to your attention in the first place. kapeesh? Support would be the entire community of believers who offer photo evidence and water contamination reports along with an increase in respiratory illnesses here in my area... I told anyone to look this stuff up... i also said i will not give all the links as i really dont care if you beleive what i say or not. Its plain to me there are some very close minded people who arent willing to read the words that are right in front of them. Just skim the paragraphs so they could "debate" a fellow ATS member.

reply to post by coyotepoet


Relative humidity is a factor....
[B]AT FLIGHT ALTITUDE, NOT ON THE GROUND!!![/B]

Originally posted by coyotepoet
reply to post by joshnichols189

 

No, but somebody has done some great research

www.watchthesky.org...

The images of Chemtrail Spray Operations on these pages are displayed with the associated upper atmosphere weather data for the twelve hour period represented by the time and date stamp on the image. In all of the examples, the upper air data is displayed with at least TWO and in some cases THREE different National Weather Service Monitoring Sites which encompass thousands of square miles of Arizona. In every example, the upper atmosphere relative humidity levels required for jet exhaust to form "Persistent Contrails" (60%) ARE NOT FOUND at any elevation in the sounding data for the 12 hour period represented by the time on the image at any of the monitoring sites.

Umm no, because that his bunk spread by chemtrail sites.

No one but chemmies and chemtrail religion promoters, states that you needed 60 percent in order to have persistent contrails. Can you show us a contrail formation chart that back you up on it?

Its almost like people are questioning what i saw because they dont want me to believe what i saw... i like a good debate but attacking someones belief or comprehension of something because they havent provided enough information for you is ridiculous ... you guys are too much. I dont expect you to believe me just hear me out and decide for yourself which you have already done... Im off this thread... i thought People were actually going to discuss chemtrails here without people slamming them for what they saw... its up to you whether you think its chemtrails or not ... not me

Originally posted by nickspm
The official line is that Chemtrails do not exist--and that Evergreen Air is not involved. Evergreen Air a front group? That's ridiculous. Why do so many people have a hard time accepting this?!

www.freedom-won.net...

Because there is no evidence of chemtrails, and Ted Gunderson is a complete crank.

Is there any chemtrailer who actually "questions" anything these people pass off as reality?

HINT - Ft Sill does not have a runway that can support your mythologic chemtrails, and nobody has managed to see these secret unmarked bomber aircraft at the Lincoln Nebraska public airport. With the thousands of people that go through that airport daily, you would think that secret aircraft would have been noticed by now

Crazy Teddy also claims that the air force flies kids out to Area 51 for their organs to be harvested. Do you believe that too without question?

Now if you make people ill then you will increase the need for drugs to cure you and that means big bucks for the producers of the said drugs ie the pharmaceutical company's.
As I've said this is just a theory and shouldn't be taken as truth more as a possible reason why.

Right....but, here's the problem....targeting.

Even Mr. Rumsfeld, for example, is going to be sick, if your assertions are true. (worse yet, for this assertion to be true, he would be KNOWINGLY making himself sick (as well as all of us peons). He breathes the same air, drinks the same water, etc.

Not sure how many wealthy, sick people you've ever met, but I can tell you, EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THEM, would give up everything they own, in exchange for their health back to normal. So, I have a very difficult time believing they would knowingly and deliberately poison themselves, along with us, just to make a few more bucks....

Originally posted by gloomyblue707
Its almost like people are questioning what i saw because they dont want me to believe what i saw...

You made a link, and people ask what is the evidence of a link - what could be a more natural line of qquesitoning than that??

i like a good debate but attacking someones belief or comprehension of something because they havent provided enough information for you is ridiculous

so we should accept as fact assertions that are made without enough evidence to support them?

How is that "a good debate"?

... you guys are too much. I dont expect you to believe me just hear me out and decide for yourself which you have already done... Im off this thread... i thought People were actually going to discuss chemtrails here without people slamming them for what they saw... its up to you whether you think its chemtrails or not ... not me

Of course it is, and people want to have "all" the evidence to be able to make an informed choice.


You may choose to believe something based upon your experiences, despite those not actually including any verifiable support (or at least none that you ahve told us), but to tell others that they are not allowed to ask you how/why you came to your conclusions sounds like you know there's no evidence, you choose to "believe" regardless of the lack of evidence, and you don't like being reminded that you hae no verifiable evidence.