Here Is Proof of Moon Shift!!!! View PDF before it "Disapears".

reply to post by darrylss

Wow... Really? I don't see the connection between the Pdf and what you just said...

Stop panicking people .... the moon has NOT started to careen wildly across the sky ... so I'm incredibly disappointed with the thread title that the OP deliberately chose to give such a deliberately misleading and sensationalistic slant to.

In the opening abstract of the paper, they make the following statement:

A recent analysis of a Lunar Laser Ranging (LLR) data record spanning
38.7 yr revealed an anomalous increase of the eccentricity e of the lunar orbit
amounting to e˙meas = (9 ± 3) × 10−12 yr−1.

Take a really good look at the above quoted value of
e˙meas = (9 ± 3) × 10^-12 yr^-1

They're essentially saying that yes, there is an anomalous discrepancy in the expected eccentricity of the moon's orbit ... but only by an incredibly small deviation and one that could only be measured by very sensitive equipment.
To the naked eye, the moon remains exactly where it should be in the sky.

reply to post by Trublbrwing


So how close will this make the perigee on 19/20 March? Anyone??

Originally posted by iamahumandoing

Originally posted by MoosKept240

Originally posted by CLPrime
reply to post by Trublbrwing

 

Nice. Intriguing find.
Now, specifically, what they "know" is that the eccentricity of the moon is increasing - that is, the moon's orbit is gradually getting more and more elliptical. And, nothing seems to be able to account for it either long-term or without other effects that we do not observe.

ETA: MoosKept240, your wish is my command

edit on 12-3-2011 by CLPrime because: (no reason given)

Thank you!!!


If the moons orbit is becoming more and more elliptical, then when does it stop? Would this mean at some point it could come dangerously close to our earth?

Not sure but at least the surfing would be good

To bad I live in kansas....
please no wizard of oz jokes please

reply to post by tauristercus


In fact, I just did the math, and that works out to 8.4 millimetres per year.
In the 38.7 years they've been observing this, the moon's apogee has gained a sixth of a metre while the perigee has lost as much.

Originally posted by mariapia
Very hard to understand. I just wrote an email to the author. I want to be sure this is not a hoax before I delve into it more.....

Also, you will never see this on the news because it does not contain any of the following words......
Gun, bomb, tit, ass, money, drug, muslim, jew, hate, bitch, hoe.

Originally posted by CLPrime
reply to post by byteshertz

 

An expert has.

They have discovered a change in how elliptical the moon's orbit around the earth is. They have looked at these potential explanations:

- Rindler acceleration
This is a slight acceleration inward, but it fails to produce any change in eccentricity

- Pioneer acceleration
Same as Rindler, but the predicted change in eccentricity is much larger than observed

- Yukawa modification
A Newtonian variant that produces no change in eccentricity

- Lense-Thirring/General Relativity effects
Fail to produce any change in eccentricity

- GR effects of an oblate spheroid (that is, a flattened sphere...like the earth)
Can only partially account for the observed eccentricity

- Kuiper Belt effects
The objects of the Kuiper Belt temporarily effect the moon's eccentricity, but fail to keep doing so long-term, as the orbit of the moon stabilizes

- A massive distanct object
Before the Nibiru enthusiasts claim this is the cause, it is not. First, it fails from the same fatal flaws as the Kuiper Belt effect. Second, it fails in so many other ways.

All of these explanations fail to account for the increase in eccentricity.
Thus, why the moon's orbit is getting more elliptical with each orbit is unknown.

edit on 12-3-2011 by CLPrime because: (no reason given)

Didnt mean to overlook you - just wasnt aware you were an expert. Thanks

reply to post by MoosKept240
i think what they are trying to say is that the moon is in free fall, that is its always falling towards us but its speed of orbit keeps it from crashing into us . At the same time the Earth is wobbling due to the gravitational influence of the moon . historicly the moon has been drifting away from the Earth for a long time this causes fluctuations in the gravity well between the 2 bodies the pulsing of the sun or other bodies coming into the area may cause small fluctuations in the end through all the gobbildy goop they just dont know

Originally posted by Chadwickus
reply to post by Trublbrwing

 

Why is it going to vanish?

Didn't you read what CLPrime said?

It's about it's increasing elliptical orbit, that's it.

Oh and it's available on Scribd too.

I am aware of the contents and meaning of the document, clearly you are not. It is about far more than the elliptical orbit. As to it's current availability and shelf life I already posted the places you can find it and offered to provide direct links to the document including it's many formats.
As to what CLPrime said, I respect his opinion and thus far I don't believe he has reached any conclusion based upon his expert summary of the document. Perhaps you should exercise restraint when it comes to tossing stones at things you clearly do not understand.

reply to post by Trublbrwing


This is my only real conclusion so far. I'm not sure what I can say beyond that. Though, if there are any specific questions, I can certainly try to answer them. The lunar phase thing was a bit observational, but this is analytical...I'm right at home with it

Originally posted by tauristercus
Stop panicking people .... the moon has NOT started to careen wildly across the sky ... so I'm incredibly disappointed with the thread title that the OP deliberately chose to give such a deliberately misleading and sensationalistic slant to.

In the opening abstract of the paper, they make the following statement:

A recent analysis of a Lunar Laser Ranging (LLR) data record spanning
38.7 yr revealed an anomalous increase of the eccentricity e of the lunar orbit
amounting to e˙meas = (9 ± 3) × 10−12 yr−1.

Take a really good look at the above quoted value of
e˙meas = (9 ± 3) × 10^-12 yr^-1

They're essentially saying that yes, there is an anomalous discrepancy in the expected eccentricity of the moon's orbit ... but only by an incredibly small deviation and one that could only be measured by very sensitive equipment.
To the naked eye, the moon remains exactly where it should be in the sky.

When a finger points at the Moon, the imbecile looks at the finger.
Have a nice day.

Originally posted by CLPrime
reply to post by tauristercus

 

In fact, I just did the math, and that works out to 8.4 millimetres per year.
In the 38.7 years they've been observing this, the moon's apogee has gained a sixth of a metre while the perigee has lost as much.

edit on 12-3-2011 by CLPrime because: fixed apogee vs. perigee

If I am driving an 18 wheel truck loaded with steel bars down the expressway at 70mph in the rain and the rear tires hydroplane and slide four inches left of the front tires it could make a mess, variables include tire composition, traction rating, pressure etc.
How many variables are there in this scenario?

reply to post by Trublbrwing


There are numerous variables, some of which can't be anticipated. I'm systematically running through the moon's orbit, imagining what the effects of an increasingly eccentric orbit could have on different aspects of the earth, and then determining whether or not these effects would be significant with such a seemingly small orbital change.
Considering that the moon moves significantly more than that over the course of a single day, I'm not seeing much that this could cause on the earth. However, there is the possibility that something could be seen, observationally. But, again, the change is so small that it's barely noticeable when you actually measure the distance to the moon with a laser, let alone when you're looking up at it from the earth.
The paper is interesting, though. Over time, this could become a much more significant effect... especially in 89 billion years, when it causes the moon to come crashing down on the earth.

reply to post by CLPrime

Let me clarify, I was not speaking for you or using your post to bolster my OP, I was indicating that you did not appear to be drawing any conclusions as to the cause.
I'm not here to force my opinion down anyones throat, I simply want to draw attention to something that needs to be looked into. The fact that so many people don't see or believe it adds a whole new dimension to this puzzle and frankly makes it very difficult to explain.
My search for answers to this mystery is what led me to this site in the first place, google displayed many pages of links here and elswhere discussing this anomoly. There is absolutely no chance this is coincidental.

reply to post by Trublbrwing


I know. Just making sure people, in general, were seeing my interpretation of the data, itself, so they wouldn't keep asking "Does this mean the moon's gonna crash into the earth tomorrow?"
And, yes, I have no idea, really, what could be causing this. Though, I do have a couple hints of ideas in the deepest, darkest, most cobweb-encrusted recesses of my brain. I'll have to do the math on those, though...

didn't we bomb the moon not too long ago looking for water or something?
could that have started a chain reaction type thing/

reply to post by minniesoda


Hm...you've got me thinking... I wonder what sort of effect the landings and liftoffs of the Apollo landers had on the angular momentum of the moon, and if that could account for the increase in eccentricity (plus the long-term nature of that increase).

S&F for you!

First, I would like to congratulate you on providing this magnificent, and reliable source...so rare an occurrence on this site.

Second, I would just like to point out how fortunate we, as a species, have been, and maybe that his the reason for our "evolution", and success, as a species. We have caught the planet in one of the very few "mild-Earth" periods. We, in the last few centuries, have dodged a couple of bullets, and are well over due for a couple of "planetary mass-changing events".

Sooner, or later, another "mass-extinction event" will cleanse the earth. Fortunately, thanks to our dispersal, adaptability, technology, and sheer numbers, our species will not go extinct, however, our population, and habitable environment will be dramatically reduced.

The effects of the Japan disaster, on the "ring-of-fire", the super-volcano of Hawaii, and the mega-volcano of Yellowstone, are still unclear. But, with the events occurring in the solar-system, with the Sun, and the Moon, it is obvious each individual should start seriously thinking of bettering his, and his families, survival chances.
I fear Earth is restarting it's normal periods of instability, and another mass-extinction-event is around the corner. If that corner is in one year, a hundred, or a thousand, is unpredictable. but I think a few reminders are in order:
- 99.99% of the species that where, at some time, on our planet, have gone extinct.
- The Earth isn't this "loony new-age" motherly protector "Gaea" - she's an homicidal bitch, that constantly tries to kill everything...
- Preparation, and knowledge, is never a waste of time...start now!!!

To all the people of Japan, my thoughts, Heart, and solidarity, are with you. Best wishes, courage, and a quick recovery, to you all. Today, we are all Nipponese!!!

Originally posted by CLPrime
reply to post by minniesoda

 

Hm...you've got me thinking... I wonder what sort of effect the landings and liftoffs of the Apollo landers had on the angular momentum of the moon, and if that could account for the increase in eccentricity (plus the long-term nature of that increase).

No the object is to small to make any changes. If i were going to look into anything id say its the Earths wobble. People think the earth spins on this perfect axis. Well in truth it doesnt this is why scientists cant simply use a simple equation to determine ellipticity.

The Earth actually rotates on the barycentre and is constantly moving backwards and forwards in one direction on a daily basis and another on a nine year basis.So knowing that the Earth wobbles i would find it hard to believe the moon would take a circular orbit. My other suspect would be we know the moon is moving 3.86 cm from us every year.This means that the moon must be getting faster in its orbits.

Now i wouldnt let this worry you however the moon would take billions and billions of years to break free and the solar system would end first.

Originally posted by dragonridr

Originally posted by CLPrime
reply to post by minniesoda

 

Hm...you've got me thinking... I wonder what sort of effect the landings and liftoffs of the Apollo landers had on the angular momentum of the moon, and if that could account for the increase in eccentricity (plus the long-term nature of that increase).

No the object is to small to make any changes.

The object(s) may be small, but so is the observed effect. If you'll notice, I calculated that the measured change in eccentricity comes out to about 8.4 millimetres per year. While I will agree that the landers probably have nothing to do with it (considering the momentum they impart would be a constant once they leave and would not have caused any effect since the last lander left), I don't think it's fair to conclude that their effect was negligible without doing the math. Unfortunately, I'm too tired at the moment to attempt it, so it'll have to wait...and, honestly, I'll probably forget about it by tomorrow.