Whining Teachers and Unions.

Sorry, public employees, but we cannot sustain you at the levels you have become accustomed to. You are going to have to learn to live by a new word, AUSTERITY, learn to like it. Further, you will find COMPETITION for your jobs. Many of you will find yourself OUTSOURCED. Whining, crying and pouting like children will not help. Adjustments will need to be made, you will learn to adjust. Remember, you can always QUIT and go elsewhere!

reply to post by Snoopy1978


ATS has lots of Conservative Constitutionalists and we hate the lousy, loony, leftist, liberal, commie-bastard Democrats. We believe that everybody needs to work and take care of themselves, Poverty is the reward you will receive when you fail to succeed in society. I'm tired of paying for everybody else, I am not the Borg and not part of the collective nor do I want to be a slave of the government who thinks my money is theirs. It's enough to just take care of my family.

reply to post by Realtruth

Everyone in the USA is important, no one better or worse, just different. We are all in this together, it's time everyone adjusts their spending, and make do with what they have currently.

Yeah...that is the sales pitch I hear.
Meanwhile America is getting sold to China and a few Capitalists are getting rich in the transaction.

Originally posted by joyride0187
Sorry, public employees, but we cannot sustain you at the levels you have become accustomed to. You are going to have to learn to live by a new word, AUSTERITY, learn to like it. Further, you will find COMPETITION for your jobs. Many of you will find yourself OUTSOURCED. Whining, crying and pouting like children will not help. Adjustments will need to be made, you will learn to adjust. Remember, you can always QUIT and go elsewhere!

And one day you will be getting robbed in broad daylight and holler for a policeman and none will come. You will not get an ambulance when you call for one and when a fire hits home your house will burn down because Joe Blows private fire company only serves to this boarder and Sam Walmarts private fire dept only goes to here, so you being THERE have no service. Sorry.

Do you know what happens when you PRIVATIZE vital services? (the true GOP agenda)
BLACKWATER.

They all work great for awhile- until they have you all by the short and curlies...
then they just go crucking fazy. You'll have a "Chernobyl" on your hands..
Have to pay to play or die.

If this happens to America - it will be Americans own fault and we will deserve it.
I hope to be dead by then

Originally posted by rusethorcain

Meanwhile America is getting sold to China and a few Capitalists are getting rich in the transaction.

To late, they already sold us out.

It won't last long for them people are waking up, making people think that Americans are soft and passive, but when the majority wake up, nothing will stop the fury. I don't think it will be warlike but much different, the reaction will be nothing like anyone has ever seen.

Originally posted by Realtruth
All this bickering is pointless, in regards to the Wisconsin collective bargaining.

Do teachers in the USA actually understand what went on, or is going on in the USA currently?

We are broke. Have No Money. In Debt. People are making this a Union thing, and/ or a party issue, it is neither.

In The Real World.

And in the real world, we understand that collective bargaining costs nothing. it is a group of people agreeing among themselves what they would like, and then bringing it to a negotiating table. It's protected under our first amendment rights to both freedom of speech, freedom of press, and freedom of association.

We aren't broke, nor are we in debt. We have lots of wealth. The trouble is, that wealth is being funneled - hemorrhaged, really - out of the middle class and into the pockets of the wealthy. That is the people generating the wealth are having it stolen and handed to people who simply collect wealth. You might have trouble scraping up change for a cup of coffee, but that's not because our economy has tanked, it's not because we're out of resources, it's simply because the wealth redistribution scheme is nearing its zenith; at which point you're going to be the modern equivalent of a sharecropper or serf, eternally in debt to the oligarch ticks who you're now standing in defense of.

And I hate to tell you but yes, this IS a party issue. The Republicans - and you need to get it through your head that yes, it is the Republicans, and exclusively the republicans, who are attacking the poor and the middle class, stealing money from them to give to the Republican's rich donors, and then using that as an excuse to strip fundamental rights from the working class. Rights that, oddly enough, protect those workers from the same people the Republicans are handing all the working class' money to. I understand just fine that neither party is perfect, but you need to understand that they are different. Pretending that it doesn't make a difference is, in point of fact, ignorant. The Republicans are the only party that does this.

Most of us living in the real world have a different perspective, when things get financially stressed and people make less or have no incomes, sacrifices have to be made. People tighten their belts, go without health-care, extra luxuries, sometimes even food. Tax bases have been cut in half, in most of the USA or more.

Most of us living in the real world understand that the problem could easily be solved by ending the free money tax break giveaways given to the ultra-wealthy in this country, with a modest tax increase for about two fiscal years, combined with a federal work program to repair our crumbling infrastructure and get enough teachers so we don't have 60 kids in one class.

You are, in effect, demanding that the already poor tighten their belts so that the ultra-wealthy can maintain their profit margins. See, that's the important thing here. Only one segment of the US population is being affected here, the working class - that is, the poor and middle classes - while thewealthier segments are just fine. We're supposed to tighten our belts, give up our rights, give up our investments, so that they can expand their belts.

The pay that teachers, and many government workers received preciously were based on a thriving economy, people being able to pay their taxes and making good wages, that is how the government runs, on TAX MONEY.

Do these teachers actually understand that 35+ million US citizens are on food stamps currently and rising?

Do you understand that those people are on food stamps primarily because of the systemic attacks on the working class by the wealthy and their crony party? Do you understand that food stamps - along with WIC, housing, and so many other federal and state projects to assist the needful - are on the chopping block, while the military-industrial complex, the massive Bush tax cuts for the wealthy, and our annual tribute to Tel Aviv of three billion are all completely untouchable?

Do you understand that without this systemic attack - screw it, let's call it what it is, class warfare - people would be making good, livable wages?

You can't honestly tell me that you think $40,000 a year is excellent pay for a job like teaching high school. As a former high schooler, I can tell you there is no way I would accept wages like that to work in that place. And now, those wages are "needing" to be cut, and classes "need" to be expanded, meaning htat teachers need to accept LESS pay for MORE work, in what is already a backbreaking and high-stress job. And if the students fail to completely ace the bubble tests that funnel federal money into the pockets of school administrators, the teacher faces getting fired.

Yeah, those whiny scumbags!

Let me explain basic economics 101, which many people don't get in public schools or even take in college.

Money comes from somewhere, when salaries and budgets are based on a certain amount of money, then a certain amount of wages can be paid. Now, if that certain amount is cut in half, then the amount of the salaries and budgets have to be cut in half. Simple math folks.

And when the situation has been intentionally engineered to get this result, by a pack of people who are actively trying to undercut the working class, for their own enrichment?

The Union Card.

Union's were formed to protect, not the middle class, but people from working in terrible unsafe conditions. I know this because I have worked worldwide, in the industrial world, and have seen what many people have not. Unions are not a bad thing and are necessary, however they have taken advantage of their power, and now they are paying the price for that.

I'm sorry, but that's completely full of it. First off, unions are integral to the formation and preservation of the middle class. There wasn't a middle class prior to the labor movement. Unions formed, and the Middle Class took shape afterwards, as a direct result of workers being able to band together for their own self-interest. And now that unions are getting busted, the middle class is shrinking. It's a direct correlation, a simple cause-and-effect situation.

Second, they have "taken advantage" of nothing. Look around the nation. Hell, just in Wisconsin, the Unions agreed to bend over and kiss their own asses for the governor. They agreed to wage cuts and freezes, they agreed to pay a higher percentage of health coverage, and all sorts of other cuts to benefits. It's the Governor who is taking advantage of the unions by demanding - basically - that they not be unions anymore; a union without collective bargaining is not a union, and can do NOTHING for its members.

Unions - that is, WORKERS, America's wealth-generators, the poor and middle classes - are paying the price for the greed of the oligarchs, supported by the ruling party, which is making bald and dangerous moves to strip wealth from the many to give to the few, in addition to the bare-assed power grabs in places like Florida and Michigan.

Yes our middle-class is dwindling, but the average teacher makes 40 - 50k a year, works 185 days a year, full benefits, pension, safe work conditions, and 4 months off a year. I would wager teachers are not going to get much sympathy, in a depression.

First off, 40k a year is middle class. And it's under attack just like the rest of the middle class. So your argument is a demand for middle-class autocannibalism. With the end result of an even SMALLER middle class as there end up being fewer teachers to provide an education that is the backbone of the middle class. Just who's payroll are you on?

Actually, teachers work in the classroom for 185 days a year. For the remaining 180 days, they need to take unpaid training and workshops, often while trying to balance a second job. Portraying it, as you do, as some variant of a paid vacation is absolutely ludicrous. Benefits can't buy groceries (and there's actually a copay that seems to get a little bigger every year). Pensions are not an "in addition" - they are actually part of the teacher's 40k pay. You see, the pension is a trust, the money is removed from the teachers' paycheck and put towards the pension. Of course they have to spend 30+ years in the same school district, and must retire to get that money back as their pension; a feat which is increasingly uncommon, thanks to the constant attacks on teachers and schools in this country from both parties.

You're being lied to, and you're being lied to hard to get you to support these attacks on teachers and education in our country. The reason is simple; poorly-educated people tend to not know their own worth, and make excellent serf labor. Why do you think it was illegal to teach slaves how to read back in the day? it wasn't petty spite.

Instead of people fighting amongst each other they should question the governments budgets and how to re-allocate some of its spending.

www.warresisters.org...

I guess they still teach that money grows on trees, in the US public school systems.

edit on 10-3-2011 by Realtruth because: (no reason given)

Removed the image for space.

I'm not sure what you're getting at here. You just spent this entire post demanding that the working class eviscerate itself for the benefit of the oligarchs, vehemently defended the absurd generosity given to the military and attendant departments, and offered no question of removing tax cuts.

And you say "instead of people fighting each other..." followed by another attack on teachers?

reply to post by TheWalkingFox


I can see you didn't read all the posts on this thread.

Your preaching to the choir.

Sometimes sensationalism seems to be the only way to get attention from the "Jerry Springer" knee-jerk, over-reactive generation.

We have lost period, you don't live in Michigan. I do, I have seen both the republicans and democrats gut our state equally. Our last governor did a great job of gutting us, she was democrat and has now moved to California 30 days after leaving office, now we have another idiot in office.

Party lines are a moot point to us.

Thanks for your input.


P.S.

Here was here last campaign promise in 2006. Yep we in Michigan are all blown away, enjoy your full pension Ms. Granholm, living in Cali, teaching at the U of C. Politicians don't live in the real world like you and I, they are sheltered by money, benefits, and knowing that no matter what they do they have a golden parachute.

Democrats or Republicans.

Originally posted by Realtruth
reply to post by TheWalkingFox

 

I can see you didn't read all the posts on this thread.

Your preaching to the choir.

Sometimes sensationalism seem to be the only way to get attention from the "Jerry Springer" knee-jerk, over-reactive generation.

It certainly doesn't look that way from your posts. if anything, you seem to have just fuzzed up your stance a little bit in the face of several people pointing out how completely non-factual your initial post and its immediate follow-ups were. I figured I'd be completist about it.

I don't think I am preaching to the choir. You still seem to hold on to the notion that everyone's getting hit equally hard and thus everyone needs to, as you put it, "tighten their belts." That's completely wrong on both counts.

We have lost period,

Don't include me in your "we" buddy. You don't ever lose until you either die or give up. Unless you're typing from beyond the grave, your options are narrow.

you don't live in Michigan. I do, I have seen both the republicans and democrats gut our state equally. Our last governor did a great job of gutting us, she was democrat and has now moved to California 30 days after leaving office, now we have another idiot in office.

Party lines are a moot point to us.

Like I said, you've been lied to. Jennifer Granholm came into office with a massive, multi-billion dollar debt left by the previous governor, John Engler. Engler engaged in mass privatization of Michigan's public assets, gave the wealthy massive tax breaks, while cutting welfare, and is married to one of the people responsible for the Freddie Mac BS.

So what did Granholm do? She resolved $7.2bn of the debt. Granted, she did this by continuing the cuts started by her predecessor, but this was because - here's the kicker - that's all the Republican legislators would approve. And when this started to turn the debt around, they even refused that much. They refused to debate or even consider the budget proposal, unless they got to write it. This obstuctionism continued via the senate into her second term, resulting in a four-hour government shutdown until they finally forced the budget through with cuts to spending and raises in taxes.

All to combat the debt left by Engler.

is Granholm a saint? Hardly. But pretending there's equal blame between her, Engler, and Snyder is kinda silly.

No, I don't live in Michigan. And I sympathize with the crap you guys are going through. But I can't sympathize with willful ignorance.

Thanks for your input.

No prob, it's what i'm here for.

reply to post by TheWalkingFox


I am sorry you are blinded by partisanship, I am sure one day you will see the light.

My stance you say?, lol

That is the whole point, I don't stand on either side. I think all politicians are equally repulsive millionare liars.

We are talking about multi-millionares that represent common folks, if they aren't rich going in, they are millionares when they leave office, especially since they get to keep all of their campaign and fund raising contributions.

It takes a majority to solve problems, not a few idiots with Republican or Democrat titles who are led by lobbyist's to solve common folk issues.

It's your prerogative to pick a side, and take a stance. I always follow the money trail, that is the way to the truth and where politicians stand.

And in Michigan it's hasn't been for the people.