The Office of Naval Intelligence and UFOs.

I heard area fifty one was built by those close to the naval powers.
The aliens probably hide underwater etc.

reply to post by zorgon


Shhhh....
You know too much....Somebody might actually be paying attention
to this thread......

Thanks for all the replies and the official Naval connection to the UFO subject certainly seems to be a bit of a slippery one - ONI documentation appears to be a bit scarce but there is this report from 1949 which mentions some interesting UFO incidents near the end:

Directorate of Intelligence and Office of Naval Intelligence (pdf).

100-203-79 - April 28, 1949, Top Secret "Evaluation of Flying Object Incidents"

There's also this document taken from the CIA archives regarding an object over White Sands Proving Ground base in the same year and, although the case is quite a controversial one, I did find it interesting who the official report was addressed to.

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/051c1a31f26c.gif[/atsimg]

From: Commanding Officer and Director

To: The Chief of Naval Operations

Attn: Office of Naval Intelligence

Via: The Chief of Naval Research

Subj: Sighting of Unidentified Object -- Report of

Encl: (A) Statement of C.B. Moore, General Mills
Aeronautical Research, Minneapolis


1. Encl (A) is a statement submitted to this activity by Mr. C. B. Moore (General Mills Aeronautical Research) who sighted and tracked an unidentified object on 24 April 1949 while engaged on Special Devices Center Project P-U-J-1 in the vicinity of White Sands Proving Ground.

2. Mr. Moore's statement is forwarded as significant because of the detailed theodolite tracking data it contains and because the object's variation of azimuth and elevation might indicate some degree of controlled flight.

3. The observer is known to the Special Device Center as a graduate mechanical engineer with an Air Force Reserve captaincy in meteorology. Mr. Moore, prior to his employment by General Mills, headed the New York University constant level balloon research program for the Air Force [i.e., Mogul], and can be considered to be a competent, mature, and highly experienced observer.

R. Ruhsenberger

cc:
(with encl)
Director
Central Intelligence Agency

Link

Cheers.

reply to post by zorgon


Zorgon:
You made a joking comment that the Navy runs the "real" Space Force and finish up the post by acting like it was absurd that the Navy would have anything to do with UFOs! Very curious.

The book "Military Space Forces: The next 50 Years," by John M. Collins and comissioned by the US Congress for its members in 1989, gives the outline plan for how the Space Force was started and built from the ground up.

Step I: The Air Force Space Command is formed on September 1, 1982.
Step II: The Navy Space Command is formed on October 1, 1983.
Sept III: The two services are joined into the US Space Command on September 23, 1985.
Sept IV: The US Space Command was joined by the Army on April 7, 1988.

In subsequent steps, the Space Command has become fully functional and independent for the most part from its member services.

Why you would want to seeming mock the Navy's role in the Space Force and then move on to mock any connection it would have with UFOs?

In my post I ended with the off-hand comment that underwater UFOs ARE capable of moving exactly like aerial UFOs and gave a short explanation for how that seemingly impossible feat is easily possible within a UFO's massless field. As I said in that post, I assume that to be a top-secret--if obvious--bit of info that the Navy and its operators would not want discussed to any extent.

Originally posted by Aliensun
Why you would want to seeming mock the Navy's role in the Space Force and then move on to mock any connection it would have with UFOs?

Ummm why do you assume I am mocking them? You obviously have paid little attention to my posts

NAVY Space Command Uncovered
www.abovetopsecret.com...

I have always maintained the NAVY runs the real space program, and so has John Lear... so you might want to re-evaluate your assessment (and the one who starred you as well )

reply to post by karl 12


Awesome Karl12! I was waiting for your next thread! It seems USO's should be as reasonable as UFO's in the general sense but I guess for some it takes time for the folks to digest...

anyway, my thoughts are (and I'd love to hear your response) there is enough info out there, as your research shows, to make this issue seem obviously intriguing. However, most still would downplay your evidence. My honest question is why do you think? Is this all made up somehow? Have you ever been duped, even as a seasoned investigator of such issues?

I am just so tired of information pointing to facts be turned around six months later - not pointing the finger here, because that is not the case; asking because I respect the source. Seems to me this discussion is fairly obvious. There is a bunch of # going on that we can't explain, whatever it is. Thanks again, I always look forward to your threads...

ColoradoJens

Originally posted by karl 12
Thanks for all the replies and the official Naval connection to the UFO subject certainly seems to be a bit of a slippery one - ONI documentation appears to be a bit scarce but there is this report from 1949 which mentions some interesting UFO incidents near the end:

Directorate of Intelligence and Office of Naval Intelligence (pdf).

100-203-79 - April 28, 1949, Top Secret "Evaluation of Flying Object Incidents"

There's also this document taken from the CIA archives regarding an object over White Sands Proving Ground base in the same year and, although the case is quite a controversial one, I did find it interesting who the official report was addressed to.

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/051c1a31f26c.gif[/atsimg]

From: Commanding Officer and Director

To: The Chief of Naval Operations

Attn: Office of Naval Intelligence

Via: The Chief of Naval Research

Subj: Sighting of Unidentified Object -- Report of

Encl: (A) Statement of C.B. Moore, General Mills
Aeronautical Research, Minneapolis


1. Encl (A) is a statement submitted to this activity by Mr. C. B. Moore (General Mills Aeronautical Research) who sighted and tracked an unidentified object on 24 April 1949 while engaged on Special Devices Center Project P-U-J-1 in the vicinity of White Sands Proving Ground.

2. Mr. Moore's statement is forwarded as significant because of the detailed theodolite tracking data it contains and because the object's variation of azimuth and elevation might indicate some degree of controlled flight.

3. The observer is known to the Special Device Center as a graduate mechanical engineer with an Air Force Reserve captaincy in meteorology. Mr. Moore, prior to his employment by General Mills, headed the New York University constant level balloon research program for the Air Force [i.e., Mogul], and can be considered to be a competent, mature, and highly experienced observer.

R. Ruhsenberger

cc:
(with encl)
Director
Central Intelligence Agency

Link

Cheers.

Yes I understand it is a twisted enigma because the Navy supposedly has accounting over the UFO bases but Army recovers UFO craft that have crashed. But I think it comes down to the President Eisenhower story, the Gerald Light letter in April 16, 1954. He gives the impression that we were invaded and we didn't have much of a choice. In the 1940s it was saucers and in the 50s it was contact and underground bases, such a strange a reality when you put together the pieces.

'My dear friends: I have just returned from Muroc [Edwards Air Force Base]. The report is true -- devastatingly true! I made the journey in company with Franklin Allen of the Hearst papers and Edwin Nourse of Brookings Institute (Truman's erstwhile financial advisor) and Bishop MacIntyre of L.A. (confidential names for the present, please). When we were allowed to enter the restricted section (after about six hours in which we were checked on every possible item, event, incident and aspect of our personal and public lives), I had the distinct feeling that the world had come to an end with fantastic realism. For I have never seen so many human beings in a state of complete collapse and confusion, as they realized that their own world had indeed ended with such finality as to beggar description. The reality of the ‘other plane’ aeroforms is now and forever removed from the realms of speculation and made a rather painful part of the consciousness of every responsible scientific and political group. During my two days' visit I saw five separate and distinct types of aircraft being studied and handled by our Air Force officials -- with the assistance and permission of the Etherians! I have no words to express my reactions. It has finally happened. It is now a matter of history. President Eisenhower, as you may already know, was spirited over to Muroc one night during his visit to Palm Springs recently. And it is my conviction that he will ignore the terrific conflict between the various 'authorities' and go directly to the people via radio and television -- if the impasse continues much longer. From what I could gather, an official statement to the country is being prepared for delivery about the middle of May

www.exopolitics.org...

Originally posted by greyer
Yes I understand it is a twisted enigma because the Navy supposedly has accounting over the UFO bases but Army recovers UFO craft that have crashed.

Not really an enigma. The Army, especially the Corps of Engineers is better equiped and suited to doing the physical work of the crash recovery, then turn over the goods to the AF or NAVY. My military researcher Jack Arneson was on one such Army team years ago.. but they answered to the Air Force, and were only told what they needed to know to do the job. Odd thing is there was an Alien involved read here UFO

Guess that is why we call the Army "Grunts"... they do the dirty work. Can't mess up those NAVY uniforms

re: Naval Intelligence - 1947


"David N. Johnson was an aviation reporter for the Boise Evening Statesman and a widely respected wartime B-29 bomber pilot, who had a sighting of the flying saucers in the summer of 1947.
Johnson continued to express great interest in UFOs. Whenever a good case came along he conscientiously sought to gather the facts.

This excerpt details a notable sighting from this date (Nov '47) that took place off the American West Coast. Observations of unidentified aircraft at sea always attracted the attention of Intelligence officials due to the possibility that they could originate from Soviet submarines. For that reason a clipping of this article ended up in the files of the 4th Air Force:

Nov 12 1947 - Talks About Aviation by Dave Johnson

One of the greatest aeronautical mysteries of all time—that of the flying discs—has come to life again.

Objects which were reported seen by thousands of persons on the ground and by scores of pilots in the air, have been sighted off the Pacific coast.

The oceanic appearance of flying discs was the subject of a message transmitted to naval intelligence in San Diego, San Francisco and Seattle.

The report also was relayed to the U.S. hydrographic office in .".." San Francisco.
It originated with the second officer of the tanker S.S. Ticonderoga. The tanker was at a position 300 miles north of San Francisco, and 25 miles off the coast on Nov. 12 when the officer reported that he saw two flying discs.

"Two flying discs were sighted flying southwest at f high speed. They appeared about 36 feet in diameter and were 20 feet apart. They emitted a very bright glow and left a streak about 50 feet behind them. They were first sighted bearing north and disappeared bearing west at 0620 Greenwich central time. The fix (position of the vessel) was latitude 43 degrees 15 minutes north and 124 degrees 54 minutes west"

After receiving a report that the discs had been sighted at sea, we telephoned an intelligence officer assigned to one of the air forces in the United States.

This air force had received "orders from the top" to expand every effort in tracking down the possible source of flying discs.

We cannot give this officer's name. But he said he is now convinced that something has been flying over the United States, and the source of that something, as far as he understands, is not known either to the Army or the Navy.

(Source: Alfred Loedding and The Great Flying saucer Wave of 1947. Loedding indicated in an interview in 1954 that Wright Field was keeping a similar file of correspondence and clippings in the late 40s, but unfortunately this material was apparently later destroyed.)

This is my first posting on this board.

I don't know if your aware that the Naval Intelligence is involved in debriefing all military personnel, including the Air Force in matters of UFO involvement on or near military bases. For instance, NI interogated airmen involved with the Rendlesham Forest Incident.They may have been present when truth serum was given to a main witness. I believe the NI has been doing this since WW2. The NI in the UK has the same function.

reply to post by ColoradoJens


Hey my friend, good to see you and thanks for the post - there's certainly quite a few compelling incidents listed on Skyfloating's USO thread and some of 'log book/do not discuss' testimony does sound pretty similar - obviously healthy scepticism is a good thing but other than trying to corroborate the reports through different aspects of evidence (link) I think the only alternative is to take them at face value - a good example would be this USO case posted by Jkrog - I still have absolutely no idea what that object was:


UFO Crash Event: Shag Harbor, 1967


There are some other interesting statements below from various Admirals but I think, when it comes to UFO/USO origin, the only honest answer is 'I don't know' - having said that I do have a hard time accepting that the objects involved in some UFO/USO cases are man made and I have a lot of empathy with Admiral Norton's comments.

"According to worthy information of faith, in our atmosphere objects arrive at high speed. No aircraft, neither in the United States, either in the Soviet Union is currently able to achieve the speed attributed to these objects from the radars and from the observatories. These objects appear to be driven by an intelligence the way in which they fly. According to reports from scientists and technical personnel, these objects fly in formation and finish manoeuvres that seem to point out that are not completely driven from an automatic equipment. These objects are in incontestable mode the result of long investigations and highly technological and exceptional knowledge."
Admiral S. Fahrney,head of missile testing for the American Navy



"I shall be very glad to accept appointment as a member of the (NICAP) Board of Governors and be listed as a 'believer' in the reality of UFO's, with the understanding that I shall resign if it appears at any time that your big group is being used to cover up for the top brass.
I know that there is a real need to break through the official Washington brush-off and get the truth home to the people. There seems to be a great fear among the powers that be that the American people will panic if told the truth. How little they know and understand their countrymen.
I feel that millions of our people already believe in the reality of the UFO's."
Admiral M Herbert B Knowles
US Navy



"The evidence that there are objects which have been seen in our atmosphere, and even on terra firma, that cannot be accounted for either as man-made objects or as any physical force or effect known to our scientists seems to me to be overwhelming... A very large number of sightings have been vouched for by persons whose credentials seem to me unimpeachable. It is striking that so many have been trained observers, such as police officers and airline or military pilots. Their observations have in many instances... been supported either by technical means such as radar or, even more convincingly, by... interference with electrical apparatus of one sort or another..."
Admiral Lord Hill-Norton (GCB), Chief of Defense Staff, Ministry of Defense, Britain; Chairman, Military Committee of NATO; Admiral of the Fleet; Member of House of Lords.



"It is time for the truth to be brought out in open Congressional hearings. Behind the scenes high ranking Air Force officers are soberly concerned about the UFOs. But through official secrecy and ridicule, many citizens are led to believe the unknown flying objects are nonsense."
Admiral Hillenkoetter-the first Director of the CIA, 1947-50.
February 27, 1960.

link

Also, talking of people being duped, I'd say some the 'official' explanations in cases like this one certainly need a second look.

Cheers.

Originally posted by zorgon
read here UFO

Zorgon, that's a pretty fascinating link there my friend.

Here's some more testimony for the logbook files:

"We had contact with an unidentified flying object that had entered our air space. The order was given by Admiral Trane to get this object forced down out of the sky if at all possible, by whatever means possible….Two gentlemen began to question me about this event. They were being pretty rough. I remember literally putting my hands up and saying, “Wait a minute fellows. I’m on your side.” My logbook, I never did see that again."

US Navy Atlantic Command, Merle Shane McDow

link

Cheers.

reply to post by karl 12
Nice work. It reminds me of the U.S.S. Edson thread I did a while back. Supposedly almost the entire crew witnessed the account, and logs were edited or not included. I asked several times if the crew was told anything along the lines of secrecy orders. I was told they were not and that's why he had no problem letting me post the story.

Supposedly the crews of the U.S.S. Enterprise, U.S.S Edson, U.S.S. Maddox and U.S.S. Turner Joy and several other support vessels witnessed this event. That's lots of logs to be edited.

I even went as far as to track down the C.O. at the time of the event. I was going to write and ask some questions seeing that he is probably pretty old and might agree to talk.

That's where my family member drew the line, don't do it.

"History is a set of lies agreed upon" - Napoleon Bonaparte

Thanks (again) for all the replies and there's certainly some very interesting reading and cases being mentioned - the USO subject and the Office of Naval Intelligence does get mentioned quite a bit in this short clip from the Ivan Sanderson thread and, as it suggests in the paragraph below, perhaps we should start referring to these objects as UMVs.

The name assigned to the frequently occurring phenomenon by the Air Technological Intelligence Center, Unidentified flying object, is woefully incorrect as a name to define the reported phenomenon.
Fifty-percent of all UFO reports describe a phenomenon that is flying to the sea, flying from the sea, flying over the sea, diving into the water, coming out of the water, or operating with submarine like characteristics under the sea. An amphibious designation also falls short of accurately portraying the unique marine capability displayed by the phenomenon.

A more comprehensive and definitive name for the phenomenon would have to recognize the multiphibious characteristics inherent to the phenomenon from a numerous collection of land, and marine sightings. The term unconventional multiphibious vehicle (UMV) certainly describes succinctly the reported phenomenon.

link

Cheers.

It's not ONI but here's an interestng report from Argentina.

...took off showing flickering body lights. It emitted a red flash, rose quickly, and separated into two bodies which flew off in different directions. Navy Capt. Luis Sanchez Moreno investigated and interrogated witnesses. They said light seemed to come through small windows in the UFO. Samples of a grayish substance found at the site were taken to Puerto Belgrano Naval Base for analysis. Capt. Sanchez Moreno told the press the Navy had been investigating UFOs since 1952, and he had personally observed UFOs with other witnesses in Mar del Plata, "mobile bodies with incredible speed and irregularity of movement.")

link

'Admiral of the fleet' Lord Hill-Norton enquires to the whereabouts of HMS Manchester's logbook due to alleged UFO activity....only to be told it fell overboard.


Originally posted by Mcrom901

DEFE 24/2092 (PDF, 16.5 Mb)

Originally posted by A51Watcher
re: Naval Intelligence - 1947

The oceanic appearance of flying discs was the subject of a message transmitted to naval intelligence in San Diego, San Francisco and Seattle.

A51Watcher, thanks for posting yet another very interesting 1947 report, just how many is that now?


The Day Before Roswell


It's not realy to do with UFOs but here's a revealing article about the US Navy listening for extraterrestrial transmissions as far back as 1924 - there are also some interesting connections between Naval Intelligence and the eventual formation of the NSA.

It seems that a SETI (Search for Extra Terrestrial Intelligence) experiment happened decades before the Project Ozma occurred in 1960. The historians at the blog Letters of Note have uncovered a telegram sent in 1924 by then Chief of Naval Operations Edward W. Eberle instructing the United States Navy to listen for radio transmissions from the planet Mars.

Thread

Cheers.

I think this highlites a great point, they say we have only explored like 15% of our oceans, what a wonderful place to hide aliens, or if your an alien, hide where the humans can't breathe.

reply to post by pyrodude


Hi Pyrodude, thanks for the post - Fabien Cousteau states in this article that we've only explored five per-cent of the world's oceans but I certainly see your point - I don't know if you've looked through all the many strange incidents collated on the USO thread but the sheer number is quite surprising -if a person's not careful, they can get lost in that thread for days (if not weeks!).


USO Research


Cheers.

Originally posted by The GUT

I have some interesting & compatible material...I'll see if I can find it...

S&F!

Hey, The Gut - any joy locating the compatible material?

Sounds very interesting

Cheers.