2012 and Why It SHOULD Be A Phenomenon....

Originally posted by OptimisticPessimist
reply to post by SonOfTheLawOfOne

 

What an amazingly informative thread!! Thank You very much, SonOfTheLawOfOne.
Additionally, the maturity of character you show in your rebuttals to what is clearly someone who has unfortunately wholly misunderstood the entire OP and your reasonings is comendable and inspiring, to say the least.

As for myself, having once only a basic knowledge and understanding of Mayan beliefs, I used to be one to consider the 2012 hype as mere viral marketing for the film and openly said as much. I understood they had always meant transformation, but had not at that point realised the profundity of their system.
This changed a few years ago when I was asked something which led me to research much further than I had previously done. Looking offline for information is something many more should continue to try.
It was only then, when taking serious time out to study, I discovered much of what you have written about here and my understanding of exactly what the Maya were talking about grew.

I look foreward to your promised thread on crop circles and quetzalcoatl - but how will I find it!?

edit on 9-3-2011 by OptimisticPessimist because: (no reason given)

Agreed, I've taken note of a lot of what you've had to say on various topics while lurking for the last few months. Your articulate, straightforward and honest yet civil and courteous responses are to be admired .

I intend re-reading this thread and reading/watching all the links provided as time permits. However, I find myself at a disadvantage and in a position that a lot of people, like OptimisticPessimist, were in years ago and now I'm playing catch up. The Mayans/2012 theories are only a few months old to me and I'm still on the fence, although leaning very precariously and probably about to fall off!! So now I feel the need to fast track , time is not on my side. I don't particularly want to 'skim' the subject matter, but I don't have years to delve into the depths either so to speak.

I, like others, have 'that feeling' that something is on the way. I'm more of a wait n see kind of person yet I have this strange need to prepare, for what and how, I have no idea. Hopefully this thread and your cool calm reasoning will help me along the way. Thanks for a great thread!

reply to post by OptimisticPessimist


Thank you very much for your kind words!

Very much like you, I had become a bit caught up in the workings of life and did not have as much time to devote to understanding this subject. I have since devoted a lot of time to it not just because the time is drawing near, but more so because of the striking similarities I've personally felt and noticed when comparing them to the Mayan culture and their prophecies.

I'll be posting a reply on this thread with some really good links and solid information that has a bit of authority behind it.

I will U2U you when I make the thread on Quetalcoatl and the relationship to crop circles, I think it will be impressive to many people that such a link has been overlooked.

~Namaste

Here is a video that really should be included in this thread as required viewing.

The first 5 parts lead up to a very important discussion on the way the Mayans viewed time and the cycles of consciousness. They believed that consciousness itself, was evolving and that humans were basically just along for the ride. Part 6 is where it gets really deep, but I STRONGLY recommend that you watch all of it.



This will really expand the understanding of why 2012 is so relevant to the Mayans and why we all should be interested in these dates and transformative periods. I will be posting additional things as well, but this video was one of the best ones I've watched. The only thing I would say about Ian Lungold and Calleman that I don't agree with is that they believed the "end date" is October 28th, 2011. There are many reasons I don't think this date is correct, but most of all, the Mayans don't and so while I agree with a lot of the other things presented by Ian Lungold, such as the evolution of consciousness, I don't believe we are in the final period of time as they present.

I'm also beginning work on the crop circle relationship post, which I think will blow people away.

~Namaste

reply to post by SonOfTheLawOfOne


I did originally begin to go through your reply bit by bit, but to be honest I thought "what's the point?" It is obvious to me that your belief in this is verging on a religious belief, in a way that is exactly what it is. All you are doing is regurgitating the beliefs of an ancient civilisation, and of course, like all religions, you cant offer anything other than scripture/prophesy.

Yes, I agree that the Mayans NEVER stated this was some sort of apocalypse. And yes, they saw this date as a "new era" (the end of one calendar and the beginning of another) which was, for them, a time of strengthening bonds and weaving a tapestry of balance and harmony. But that is just like what we do every new year when we make resolutions and say "right...a fresh year, a fresh start!"

You are basically relying on the word of an ancient Mayan priest who gave prophetic meaning to observed celestial and terrestrial cycles. Yes, their understanding of astronomy was great, but that doesn't mean the vague and now out dated/meaningless prophecies that came from them should have any legitimacy because of that.

I just don't get why people believe in this stuff. As if it's not bad enough that we still have religions tearing this planet apart, now people are reviving ancient religions and giving them a sexy 21st century make over.

I might make a more detailed post in the near future, but for now, that's me done.

Thanks

Originally posted by SonOfTheLawOfOne

It wasn't until a recent video of a field where a crop circle showed up in less than 6 minutes of video, covering the entire field with multiple witnesses present, that I started to think there was more to it.

Can you point me to that vid please? Thanks.

reply to post by LiveForever8

I agree that the Mayans NEVER stated this was some sort of apocalypse

Just to be pedantic..."Apocalypse" is often misrepresented as meaning 'the end' when in actuality, it simply refers to a kind of 'revalation'.

As for religious zeal, may I suggest that you are incorrect in your assumption?
I'm personally not religious in the slightest (having long since found that path lacking), but am unable to simply ignore things I've been 'enlightened' to, through detailed study.
The important aspects of the Maya lie in their advanced maths and their obsessive attention to natural cycles.

The 'thing' religions have, to their one credit, is the ability to allow one to use archetype and allegory to help ones mind 'describe' things that are beyond the current capacities of our minds. A little like trying to visualise a Hypercube, I suppose.
Metaphysically, all things are duel sided and so, from Plato to Jung, there has been many examples of using what some would see as religious methodology to assist in ones understanding of the opposite, non material concepts, such as a collective consciousness, for one example.
It's only been around 60-odd years since we officially recognised there were more than one 'mental side' to a human brain as it is.

I'm not sure I've explained myself well here, but I hope you can try to see past any religious bias you may have (I too, for years was crippled by such bias and as a consequence, failed to see obvious assistances to my research in other, purely historically-based fields simply because I loathed the source so!) to allow yourself the opportunity to find potential truths hidden in religious dogma. I'd not blame you for declining , mind!

reply to post by LiveForever8


I can tell from your reply that you clearly don't understand some of the bigger concepts about the ancient cultures, and you are missing the bigger picture of my posts.

These were deeply spiritual people, not like anything you've probably witnessed unless you've spent time with a native American Indian tribe or the Mayan elders or a similar type of setting. The world you and I live in, the one we use computers in, doesn't exist for them and their way of life. Yes, some people in those regions have "crossed over" into the technological world while still holding their traditions, but they aren't who I'm referring to and in no way, represent the Mayans.

I did originally begin to go through your reply bit by bit, but to be honest I thought "what's the point?" It is obvious to me that your belief in this is verging on a religious belief, in a way that is exactly what it is. All you are doing is regurgitating the beliefs of an ancient civilisation, and of course, like all religions, you cant offer anything other than scripture/prophesy.

I don't like to bicker, but I don't appreciate your lack of interest after you write a thread knocking the entire idea around 2012 where I present factual information and you call it "religion". It's obvious to you?? How do you have any clue what my religious beliefs are? I'm an educated individual with an interest in ancient cultures, not just Mayans, but many different cultures. I've written about several of them. You have no idea who I am or what I know and I'm insulted that you would make such an assumption about my religious background. It exemplifies how stereotypical you are and rather than do some homework and prepare a good post, you throw nothing but personal conjecture and strawman arguments at me. You are a hypocrite saying that I cite scripture and prophecy when that is exactly what you did in response to my first post? There are artifacts, far beyond scripture and prophecy... stone carvings, codices, paintings, pottery, all of which illustrate the life of these cultures and go beyond "religion" as you are trying to define it.

Yes, I agree that the Mayans NEVER stated this was some sort of apocalypse. And yes, they saw this date as a "new era" (the end of one calendar and the beginning of another) which was, for them, a time of strengthening bonds and weaving a tapestry of balance and harmony. But that is just like what we do every new year when we make resolutions and say "right...a fresh year, a fresh start!"

So you agree with me, but then disagree? WTF? And no, it is nothing like our "new year". We live through several decades of "new years" where they do not live to see an entire Katun or Baktun pass. You're comparing apples to elephants. If you ACTUALLY read anything I wrote, or bothered to do ANY kind of research, you would know right away that our new year resolutions are nothing like the prophecy of these cultures. You'd also realize that they had observed CYCLES in time, the same way that we have seasons, and these were carefully documented and handed down over generations. They were astute observers and understood the cosmos exceptionally well.

I don't have time to do it right now, but I have some information that relates the creation of the Gregorian calendar to the same time the conquistadors returned from Central America with the Mayan codices. It wasn't soon after that the best mathematician the Pope could find at the time (a German) designed the modern calendar, and the Mayans had more precise math because they didn't need a leap year to correct for the poor math of the Vatican hired German. A full paper was written on this by a professor who was the head of the mathematics department at Fairleigh Dickinson University, and it basically said it was practically impossible for anyone to have created the Gregorian calendar to be so precise without a more accurate one to work from. Yet, for some reason, you really think that there is not a shred of credible interest that should be devoted to this, as if the entire thing is nothing more than the 2012 hype that talks about doom... my thread shows otherwise.

You are basically relying on the word of an ancient Mayan priest who gave prophetic meaning to observed celestial and terrestrial cycles. Yes, their understanding of astronomy was great, but that doesn't mean the vague and now out dated/meaningless prophecies that came from them should have any legitimacy because of that.

I guess I should say the same about Moses? Buddha? Jesus? They gave meaning to things that were NOT observed and terrestrial cycles, yet you cite them as reference and then have the gall to say I'M the one bordering on religion? The Mayans, for that reason alone, have far more legitimacy than most religions, but that's not the point of this thread. I just want to make sure I clarify that one point with you because 95% of the world today believes in things that aren't tangible or visible in any way, but the Mayans give you things that are measurable and tangible, including a calendar and exact dates as well as artifacts.

I just don't get why people believe in this stuff. As if it's not bad enough that we still have religions tearing this planet apart, now people are reviving ancient religions and giving them a sexy 21st century make over.

You clearly do not want to hear about anything that has to do with the history of these people.... PEOPLE, just like you and I only at a different time, and your argument is only based around the modern hype that has been given to 2012 instead of the WHY it has been given. This is not ancient religion with a make over, that is a foolish and absurd statement. This is an appreciation for ancient knowledge and technological abilities that these people somehow had,. which were beyond what a majority of the rest of the world had at the time. Europe was still in the DARK AGES at that time! People want to understand HOW the Mayans got the knowledge and means to do what they did... which when you do the RESEARCH, takes you to their God, Kukulcan / Quetzalcoatl. The importance of 2012 is the prophecy that he will return, and as I explained, this may not be a god-like figure but a change in thinking that hasn't been observed since they were visited by this god-like figure. If you want to throw the religious slant, you could say it's the return of a god... or you could do some research like I have and will realize that the line of thinking centers more on a spiritual change that will make us all like him.

I appreciate your replies, but I honestly don't think you have any appreciation for this subject and frankly, are a little ignorant about it. You don't have to go "bit by bit" through my response and try to tear it apart... you should put together your own well-rounded, and well-educated presentation of the facts that YOU have found and then propose your hypothesis. I have seen nothing but conjecture from you so far, which borders on ignorance my friend. I would love nothing more than to have a tit-for-tat debate with you about what I previously mentioned.

I might make a more detailed post in the near future, but for now, that's me done.

For now, I bid you farewell and welcome a more detailed, researched, well-educated post from you anytime.



~Namaste

Originally posted by Student X

Originally posted by SonOfTheLawOfOne

It wasn't until a recent video of a field where a crop circle showed up in less than 6 minutes of video, covering the entire field with multiple witnesses present, that I started to think there was more to it.

Can you point me to that vid please? Thanks.

Here is that video:



You can look into Gary King, the guy is completely stand-up and he and Winston Keech are two of the few who apply scientific method to their research, but of course, you'll have to arrive at your own conclusions.

Enjoy!

~Namaste

The Maya were fascinated with the Sun, as were the Aztecs and Incas...

Perhaps this is why?

Link Between the Sun and Earthquakes

Just a little more food for thought...

~Namaste

I Don't Believe That 2012 Will Be The End Of The World, Although I Do Believe Something Significant Will Happen During That Year. The Actual Hype Of This Particular Topic Is Made Worst By People Who Claim To Have Evidence Which Proves This Will Happen, When They Really Do Have No Idea What They Are Talking About, Don't Get Me Wrong, These People Are Probably Very Intelligent But On This Topic, Let's Be Honest No-One Knows, And It's A Case Of Wait And See. If Anyone Can Give Me A List Of Theories Of What Might Come, I'll Be Very Grateful. I'd Like To Research Them And Come To My Own Conclusions.

Just thought this was kind of an interesting list about the myans...check it out.
listverse.com...

reply to post by SonOfTheLawOfOne


greta thread S & F for you to bad that all the people who believe in the 2012 hype will not read what you wrote here and instead they will call you a dis-info agent and a troller who should not be takin seriously

reply to post by SonOfTheLawOfOne


Seriously stretching now. Every ancient culture was fascinated with the sun. And why wouldn't they be? They depended on it , just like us, it is kind of important to the the lifeforms inhabiting this dirtball.