2012 and Why It SHOULD Be A Phenomenon....

It is time to set the records straight. I have gotten so tired of these threads that I have decided to start one of my own to dispel some of the nonsense. This was also in a response to another thread that I commented in that can be found here.

When you think about the return of a God, any kind of God that is talked about in most religions, most people think about the destruction of evil and the return of true goodness... after all, the etymology of the word God means "the greatest good". Most religions talk about the return of someone who will rescue us, perhaps all of us in some way, and again, the Mayans are no different except for one small detail...

...they had an exact date according to their God. It is "One Reed" at the end of the 5th Mayan "sun". This equates to December 21, 2012.

Gerald Benedict wrote a book called "The Mayan Prophecies for 2012", and it doesn't predict doomsday, but goes into very explicit detail about the prophecies of this culture and of ones in the surrounding area.

What I was trying to explain in the previously mentioned thread is that there is a very deep spiritual connection to 2012 by the Mayans and many other cultures, but I have the most detailed information handy on the Mayans so I'll start there and will be referring quite a bit to the book.

Prophecy

First of all, prophecy, when it comes to 2012, is misunderstood. The definition of prophecy as it pertains to Mayans and 2012 is completely different than Old Testament prophecy or people like Nostradamus. Here is a quote from the book I mentioned above to set the context: (emphasis added)

All these forms (the kinds spoken of above) of prophecy can be found within the Mayan tradition, however, one very important element has to be added. The authority of 'true' prophecy lies not just in the sources inspiring the prophet, but in the extent to which it adds new insight to the received tradition of revelation. In this case the power of the prophecy goes beyond its apparent character of warning, and gives direction as to how spiritual maturity can be advanced; such a prophecy elicits responses to its message that are both practical and transcendent. The Mayan prophecies achieve this, especially those now communicated by contemporary Mayan day-keepers and elders such as Hunbatz Men. The Mayan prophecies both alert us to the changes we are about to face, and at the same time enhance our spiritual awareness. So completely is the whole notion of prophecy embedded in Mayan culture and way of life, that it can be thought of as their spiritual DNA.

Another inescapable fact is that the Mayans based their whole existence on the connection between us and nature and the understanding that human beings are an integral part of nature... this was their religion in a way and they felt that they were inextricably connected to Nature's creator.

The mathematical intricacy and logic of their calendars is a visible and concrete form of this perception of nature.

I couldn't agree with that more. These people had an understanding and knowledge of things that people nowadays just fail to respect. We still have no clue how they were imparted this knowledge, but they claim it was from a god-like human that was nothing like the Mayans and came from the sea. All people nowadays recall about the Mayans is still-beating hearts being cut out of people, and that's it... complete ignorance to anything else. Moving on... here is an ACTUAL prophecy from the Maya:

Would that he might return from the west, uniting us in commiseration over our present unhappy plight! This is the fulfillment of the prophecies of Katun 5 Ahau... God grant that there may come a Deliverer from our afflictions, who will answer our prayers in Katun I Ahau!

- Chilam Balam of Tizimin

The above is a prophecy of the return of a Supreme Being or Teacher, which further speaks of Quetzalcoatl, who was an Olmec and Aztec God, but who was also known to the Maya as Kukulcan. There is a strong and growing belief that the prophecy may not necessarily refer to the return of a physical God or being which was the same one that the Mayans and other cultures were visited by, but will be a spiritual movement of people themselves taking on the character and attributes of the Supreme Being through their own individual spiritual evolution, to the point of overcoming the duality of the subject-object relationship. It is a prophecy that resonates with almost all religions.

Quetzalcoatl is frequently represented as a feathered or plumed serpent, and because of this serpent symbolism, the prophecies of the return of Quetzalcoatl/Kukulcan have important associations with the esoteric parallel of Hinduism's secret knowledge of kundalini and the seven chakras. It is remarkable that the Maya taught about the seven power centers of the human body by which means the energy of the cosmos was assimilated and expressed. The source of this energy, according to the Mayans, lies in the earth from where it begins to move; first to the base of the spine, then through each of the seven chakras. This vital link between the Earth and the body is one of the central themes of the prophecies that speak of the urgent need of humanity to recover its innate relationship with Nature.

So again, we have spiritual reference to the prophecies. Not doomsday. This prophecy goes on to talk about the return of Quetzalcoatl or Kukulcan, which could mean the transformation of consciousness, or it could be the return of a supreme being of sorts, possibly the same one that brought them the original knowledge that was imparted to them and convinced them to stop human sacrifice. In Mayan prophecy, it is the cycles of Venus that that signal the return of Kukulcan and the consequent expansion of human consciousness. This same prophecy also speaks of Kukulcan's promise to return after 'five full cycles of the dawn star', which is Venus as the Morning Star.

Hmmm.... Morning Star.... Venus... there is a theme emerging....but before I digress and go off on that tangent, here's the kicker...

The galactic synchronization of December 21, 2012 will be preceded by a transit of Venus on June 6th of 2012.

So.... what we have is similar to what EVERY religion talks about with the return of a supreme being of sorts, and that includes the Mayans who believed in the return of Hunab K'u, or the original Creator. However, there are some that believe that it may not be a being, but a return to a type of consciousness. Either way, it's not doom.

These prophecies which are based on the movements of Venus and other astrological alignments. The return of Kulkulcan/Quetzalcoatl is marked by 6/6/2012, which is heralded by the transit of Venus. The end of the 5th "Sun", or World Age, is the visible conjunction of the sun with the center of the Milky Way, which to the Maya, represents the Tree of Life. The most important aspect of this prophecy is that the coming galactic alignment will produce some type of energetic effect that will impact our consciousness. The prophecy around Venus isn't just about Venus, but is specific of its transit across the sun and speaks of a critical period of transition for both the planet and humanity. (What's happening around the world today???) The prophecy around Venus also goes on to call for self-sacrifice in the form of restraint when facing the problems of our society and planet.

Last but not least... the Mayan prophecies speak of unity in humankind and the power of sharply focused collective thought - that its potential could be the most powerful energy humankind has ever experienced. They prophesied that we would "forget" our cosmic wisdom and become obsessed in material ways, but that one day, we would retrieve that wisdom and have a deeper understanding of who we are and our relationship to nature and the universe.

I feel like that time is here.

If you read the book I mentioned, and do a little research, you'll see that a lot of what the Mayans and ancient cultures believed would happen in the future is in fact happening today. Their prophecies were about the rise and fall of technology and materialism, and the return of spirit and a shared higher consciousness, or at least an awareness of our consciousness and how we are all connected with one another, the earth and the rest of the Universe. There is something special happening, good and bad, and people can feel it everywhere... it feels like a dam about to burst. After following various researchers, reading books, watching documentaries and movies on different theological subjects, I really think the Mayans, Indians (west Indie) and native Americans deserve more credit for their stories.

I hope this thread inspires others to see the positive side of 2012 and realize that the media and many other groups ARE using this to stir controversy and hype to profit from, and that there is more to it. There are plenty of authentic researchers that you can find out about and take what they into consideration. While I do NOT believe in Calleman's date, I do believe in a lot of his other research and Ian Lungold contributed much to the understanding of Mayan's view of consciousness. I recommend watching his YouTube videos of his presentations.

I'll try to answer questions if possible but it's late and I must sleep for work.

~Namaste

Great thread!

I think this video relates very close to what you're saying, its a video of Daniel Pinchbeck, he wrote a book called 2012: The Return of Quetzalcoatl.


Okay, video won't embed, so here's the URL
www.youtube.com...

EDIT: There you go...worked fine for me...in reply to the person above

SonOfTheLawOfOne,

Excellent post!
I didn't think anyone would be able to
overcome their own ethnocentricism and begin
to view the Maya Calendar from a more Native perspective.

This kind of being proved wrong I can take!




The inca name for the person discussed is Viracocha.

Here's a good little article i'm sure a lot of you would have seen but some probably haven't so I thought I'd add it here.....

3 pages....
What the myan elders are saying about 2012


Edit to add original...
www.chiron-communications.com...

reply to post by SonOfTheLawOfOne


First off, I'm glad somebody has finally taken up the mantle and presented some actual interesting information regarding the 2012 phenomenon.

Having said that...

Originally posted by SonOfTheLawOfOne
Most religions talk about the return of someone who will rescue us, perhaps all of us in some way, and again, the Mayans are no different except for one small detail...

Yes, most religions do. So what makes the Mayans so special in this regard?

Originally posted by SonOfTheLawOfOne
...they had an exact date according to their God. It is "One Reed" at the end of the 5th Mayan "sun". This equates to December 21, 2012.

I am very aware of Quetzalcoatl and his place within these cultures and I am also very aware that the legends stated that he had promised solemnly to return one day. But I was not aware that he had given a specific day upon which he would return? Could you perhaps link to where this is stated for I can see for myself.

Originally posted by SonOfTheLawOfOne
The definition of prophecy as it pertains to Mayans and 2012 is completely different than Old Testament prophecy.

I don't see how it is.

Many of the Bibles prophecies also talk about change, even spiritual change.

Isaiah 49:6.
Isaiah, who was a prophet during the Old Testament era, gave many prophecies from God about a Messiah. In this particular example, he reveals that the Messiah would have a worldwide impact in that salvation would be brought to people throughout the world. Jesus fulfilled this prophecy. His promise of salvation has been evangelized to people all over the world.

Originally posted by SonOfTheLawOfOne

Would that he might return from the west, uniting us in commiseration over our present unhappy plight! This is the fulfillment of the prophecies of Katun 5 Ahau... God grant that there may come a Deliverer from our afflictions, who will answer our prayers in Katun I Ahau!

- Chilam Balam of Tizimin

Sounds a lot like the Bible prophesy of Isiaha, does it not?

Originally posted by SonOfTheLawOfOne
It is a prophecy that resonates with almost all religions.

Yep, many religions and cultures share the same prophecies, so once again I ask, what makes the Mayans so special in this regard?

Originally posted by SonOfTheLawOfOne
The galactic synchronization of December 21, 2012 will be preceded by a transit of Venus on June 6th of 2012.

What galactic synchronisation?

Originally posted by SonOfTheLawOfOne
So.... what we have is similar to what EVERY religion talks about with the return of a supreme being of sorts, and that includes the Mayans who believed in the return of Hunab K'u, or the original Creator.

Yep, ALL RELIGIONS. So why should people care about this one over the Bible prophecies or the prophecies contained within the Bhagavad Gita?

What I really would love to see is more extracts from the Mayans that you believe back up this theory. I prefer to hear it from the horses mouth rather than other people's interpretations of it a few thousand years later. Any decent links to actual Mayan scripture would be appreciated.

Thanks

The New Testament already called for it didn't it?

B.C.-A.D. According to the New Testament, The End should have occurred before the death of the last Apostle.

In Matthew 16:28, it says:
Verily, I say unto you, there be some standing here which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of Man coming in his kingdom.

One by one, all the apostles died. And the world rolled on for everyone else. . . .

Wasn't the next coming of Christ supposed to be the apocalypse?


As far as the Mayan calender goes, I have a calender from 1998, and it ends in 1998. The world continued in '99. Unless there is more contributing evidence to put something into perspective....

And since the Mayan's are talking about a 'spiritual awakening', what happens to the people who don't want to be awakened. Or does free will have no authority in the matter. Is everyone automatically converted?

Also, why does this prophecy apply to people who are not part of the Mayan culture? It counts for everyone in every part of the world.

Is Africa supposed to be enlightened also? Will the feel better about their astronomical AIDS and Rape rates after Venus crosses some point in the sky?

Just curious....

Is there any statistics on how often vague prophecies are right and distinct prophecies are wrong?

To say there will be 'change', enlightenment or a conscience change, that can be applied to every generation. Every time a war starts and ends people obtain enlightenment. Usually because wars don't make sense, and when they end the world makes sense again. Oh yeah, and a bunch of people stop dying....

reply to post by LiveForever8

Yes, most religions do. So what makes the Mayans so special in this regard?

The specific dates that were used and the fact that the end of the Mayan Long Count does hold major significance spiritually to the Mayans, which is 12/21/2012. This link, that was provided by polarwarrior is actually a good recent take from the Mayan elders. They still believe that it will be a "transformational" period, but you still insist that it's a vague perception and not an exact date? Ok... I'll see if I can dig up some more info that relates to why it's so important, but you should read what I wrote before about the significance of prophecy in their day to day lives.... it wasn't the same as living your life by what Isaiah said and I don't see prophecies where exact dates were mentioned anywhere in the bible. A few religions have exact dates, but none as specific as the Mayans and Aztecs.

I am very aware of Quetzalcoatl and his place within these cultures and I am also very aware that the legends stated that he had promised solemnly to return one day. But I was not aware that he had given a specific day upon which he would return? Could you perhaps link to where this is stated for I can see for myself.

I get a lot of information from books, which is why I quoted pieces of it directly and gave the name of the book. I have plenty of books I can refer you to, but the one I referenced here is from a respected author and researcher. I also specifically mentioned the prophecy from Chilam Balam of Tizimin, which was given in raw form. The translation of it is not under dispute by anyone in the field. The context in the prophecy is around the end of the 5th sun and the return of Kukulcan, but this is not the 2012 date I'm referring to and it's importance. I can't give you all the answers, you will have to do some of your own research too, but you have to understand that the Mayans believed in time and history repeating in cycles that were very well defined by their calendars. When Chilam Balam of Tizimin speaks of Katun 5-Ahau, this is a repeating pattern of behavior in history and as such, will occur many times over (every 256 years) in different ways.

Katun 5-Ahau: During this katun of misfortune, rulers and their subjects separate -- the people lose faith in their leaders. Leaders may be harshly treated, even hung. There is also an abundance of snakes, a great famine, and few births during this period.

However, we are not currently in Katun 5, we are in Katun 4, which is the "short count" calendar of 256 years. Why is this important? Because it is the conclusion of a Katun that marks it's signficance.

Katun 4-Ahau: There will be scarcities of corn and squash during this katun and this will lead to great mortality. This was the katun during which the settlement of Chichen Itza occurred, when the man-god Kukulcan (Quetzalcoatl) arrived. It is the katun of remembering and recording knowledge.

At the end of this repeating cycle, which happens to be 12/21/2012, it is ALSO the end of the long count baktun. If you really want the exact prophecy as spoken by Chilam Bilam, I'll get it, but I don't have it in front of me or handy at the moment. The point is that "One Reed" represents the year 2011, and so if you examine the significance of all of the dates and how they converge, and the prophecy from Chilam Bilam, One Reed at the end of the 5th Sun would mean that sometime during 2011, the return of this consciousness or god-like figure will begin. The conclusion of the katun and baktun will be on 12/21/2012, and the prophecy states that by that time, the transformation will be well underway.

THIS DOES NOT MEAN THAT ON 12/21/2012, YOU'LL WAKE UP AND THE WORLD WILL BE DIFFERENT. It means that this is already happening, the transformation is already taking place, that the transit of Venus will make a period of great change both before and after. We are in a transitional period now, and after 2012 we will move into Katun 2. What can we expect with Katun 2?

Finally, the present Long Count/creation epoch of the Maya comes to an end on December 21st (the winter solstice), of 2012. What will the katun that begins this new era be like? The Maya regarded katun 2-Ahau as half good and half bad, a time of uniting for a cause, but also as the katun during which came the "end of the word of God." And what does that mean? It is true that in previous 2-Ahau katuns there were great religious or ideological crises. Between 1500 and 1520 the Aztecs were conquered and forced to convert to Christianity. Also in 1517 Martin Luthor started the Protestant Reformation. 256 years later, between 1756 and 1776, the ideas of liberty and the rights of countries and individuals became a growing trend and this led to the American colonies declaring independence from England. One could say that a new era was indeed dawning, although it took a few more katuns before it could stand on its own two feet. Quite possibly some of our most taken-for-granted beliefs, secular and religious, will begin to lose cohesiveness and credibility after 2012, paving the way for a genuinely new age. If the Maya were right, then don't hold your breath for the mere millennium, the year 2000, hang on for the real changes that should begin twelve years later in 2012 and culminate with katun 13-Ahau which starts in 2032.

So again, no doom, but there will be both good and bad parts related to the changes we go through.

@boncho - this should answer your questions as well. No, the people in Africa aren't going to wake up AIDS free with food on the table. But, perhaps there will be a shift in thinking that will rid the world of much corruption and allow those people to have a more fair share of resources. This is what the prophecy talks of.

Yep, ALL RELIGIONS. So why should people care about this one over the Bible prophecies or the prophecies contained within the Bhagavad Gita?

Because they didn't pin their prophecy to exact dates or even directly to astrology for that matter... Nostradamus did. Other religions base their prophecy almost exclusively on "visions". The Mayans, Olmecs and Aztecs based theirs on some sort of imparted knowledge and strict observation of nature and its cycles. They Mayans recognized periods that repeated and showed convincing evidence of fractal tendencies in time with repeating cycles of similar behavior. (floods every x years, heat waves every x years, increased death, decreased famine, etc.) Their prophecy came from high priests who studied these patterns from the observations carried down over the centuries and were recorded.

In the end, 2012 is meant to mark the complete end of the 4th world and the end of the transition into the 5th world. We are transitioning as we speak. If you don't see that happening in the world today, then this thread probably isn't for you anyway. The 5th world doesn't start out peaches and cream either, there is work, clean up that needs to happen, corruption that needs to fall, and the natural consequences that need to happen as a result. This will take years. So far, the Mayans have been spot on and anyone who studies their culture and prophecy will realize this.

I'll try to add more information as I get a chance. Here are some links for more information although I wouldn't necessarily go by all of the information unless I have corroborated it with other sources.

Link
Link
Link

~Namaste

Originally posted by boncho
And since the Mayan's are talking about a 'spiritual awakening', what happens to the people who don't want to be awakened. Or does free will have no authority in the matter. Is everyone automatically converted?

Of course free will plays into things, what kind of silly question is that? There is no "conversion" happening, conversion to what?? You don't sound like you understand the subject matter....

Also, why does this prophecy apply to people who are not part of the Mayan culture? It counts for everyone in every part of the world.

Yes, because the Mayans saw humans as an integral part of nature and connected to it in every way possible. The changes will effect everyone and everything in some way, good and bad, and there may be some who don't even notice anything at all.

Is Africa supposed to be enlightened also? Will the feel better about their astronomical AIDS and Rape rates after Venus crosses some point in the sky?

Even though this comment is ridiculously sarcastic and a total strawman argument, I answered it. If you don't have honest questions, please don't fill the thread with garbage.

~Namaste

reply to post by boncho


This isn't a thread about Christian prophecy, but you're welcome to compare and contrast it to the Mayan prophecy.

There are stark differences between the two, and I think this thread and the information I have provided makes that plenty clear.

~Namaste

reply to post by polarwarrior


Thank you for the links! Gave you a star for the article about the Mayan time-keepers.

And I also appreciate the positive feedback...

~Namaste

Originally posted by SonOfTheLawOfOne
reply to post by boncho

 

This isn't a thread about Christian prophecy, but you're welcome to compare and contrast it to the Mayan prophecy.

There are stark differences between the two, and I think this thread and the information I have provided makes that plenty clear.

~Namaste

I'm going to repost some things that I wrote in other threads so you can see where I'm going with this.

------------------------

Ever notice how all prophecies are vague besides the ones that claim fiery brimstone (but those give us no dates)?

If someone says: people will be enlightened, or humans will get smarter or humans will suffer, etc, etc ,etc. It can get applied to any event.

If someone invented a new power source that revolutionized the world, religious nuts would all say that they called for it, so would Nostrodamus sycophants. But really, it was technology and science that did it. They same thing religious nuts have been fighting against so many years.

Prophecies work after the fact, simple as that. We can change our future but can't predict it. Prophecies are little more than lotteries.


-----------------------
MAYBE THE CHANGE WON'T BE TANGIBLE BUT SYMBOLIC INSTEAD?

You can apply "symbolic" to everything.

So tell me, was finding treatment to diabetes symbolic? Polio vaccines? WWII and WWI? Was Vietnam and Iraq symbolic? Were the Dark Ages symbolic? Was flight of Man symbolic? Was everything else relevant to our modern world symbolic?

I love how symbolism turns up when it can be used to further a bunk idea... But if it has no application to said bunk idea has no purpose.

So after this great enlightenment, if the 'symbolic' change in this world is supposed to take place, how do we know it has anything to with the so called prophecy?

reply to post by boncho


No offense to you, but you are trying to apply philosophy to Mayan prophecy which is like pouring ketchup on pancakes... sure, you can, but after one taste nobody will want any more of it.

I hear what you are saying about prophecy in general and that you have to have hindsight usually to determine if a prophecy is accurate or not. I also see what you are saying about symbolism. Neither apply here if you read what I wrote and actually looked at the links, which judging by your reply, I don't think you did.

You're trying to derail the subject by moving into your own philosophical views instead of discussing what the relevance, or irrelevance, of the Mayan prophecy is around 2012, which is what I posted this thread for in the first place. Please stay on topic.

~Namaste

reply to post by boncho

If someone says: people will be enlightened, or humans will get smarter or humans will suffer, etc, etc ,etc. It can get applied to any event.

I've proven plenty to you through facts and decades/centuries of research about the Mesoamerican cultures... what you said above is total nonsense and based on nothing empirical or factual at all. People can say whatever they want, but that doesn't mean they will all agree. When hundreds or millions of people look back and agree that the Renaissance was an incredibly inspirational period like no other, or that the Dark Ages were unusually cruel and demoralizing for humans, and someone clearly said that it would happen before anyone thought it could or would, that is considered an accurate prophecy, and there are very very few of them. The Mayans predicted periods of time where a certain kind of thinking, energy if you will, was present and influenced nature in ways that effected everything and everyone, and they used strict observation to recognize patterns in these energies and worked very hard to map them out and then live by them. They did so for a lot longer than we have.

So tell me, was finding treatment to diabetes symbolic? Polio vaccines? WWII and WWI? Was Vietnam and Iraq symbolic? Were the Dark Ages symbolic? Was flight of Man symbolic? Was everything else relevant to our modern world symbolic?

Yes, the entire period as a whole was symbolic. The last 255 years have been symbolic. If you'd looked at the POST I WROTE, you would have read that the Mayan katuns were pretty accurate at referring to those periods in the way they occurred. You didn't read my posts, so I am not going to keep repeating myself by typing it.

Again, I don't think you understand anything about the esoteric principles of religion or philosophy and are just here ranting about your own ideas with not a shred of evidence to back it up. How about forming a hypothesis based on something factual or concrete? Perhaps a lesson in critical thinking? It's hard for me to believe that people show up on threads like this and make comments like yours... I would think people would come here looking for information that they don't already know and to expand their understanding, better educating themselves to come to a well-rounded conclusion.

I have provided information in this one thread, as a collection of information I have gathered over YEARS, and within that collection, are collections of other people's research over DECADES, which I haven't seen anywhere online. Go back and read what I wrote, read the links, get the books and then come back with your ideas and a well-formed argument, PLEASE. Your comments so far have added nothing to this topic.

~Namaste

reply to post by loves a conspiricy


Thank you for the video... I haven't watched it yet, but plan to later tonight.

As far as Pinchbeck... I like a lot of the things he talks about and some of the perspectives he brings to the table, but I didn't like that in his book, he ventured off into drugs and extreme esoteric experiences around them. I wish he would have stayed more on the subject of the Mayans and Aztecs and how the return of Quetzalcoatl is related to their way of thinking. He never really gets to that conclusion about their God, he more or less arrives at his own conclusion based on the similar stories of cultures from all over the world and the experiences he has.

However.... I will say this....

There is a PHENOMENAL link between crop circles and Quetzalcoatl. There are many crop circles that depict the Mayan and Aztec god in different forms, one of which is the symbol for Venus. I will be doing a separate post on that at a later time, but there has been a Mayan connection to crop circles for quite some time, long before 2012 was hyped up. I find this to be incredible because for a long time, I was not a firm believer in crop circles. It wasn't until a recent video of a field where a crop circle showed up in less than 6 minutes of video, covering the entire field with multiple witnesses present, that I started to think there was more to it. Specifically, my interest was in the Mayan ones, but I still found a lot of interest in others. Some are man-made, but a very many are not and I'm not going to get into a crop circle debate. If you were to break down the crop circles that I'm referring to, they all symbolize a return of Quetzalcoatl or Kukulcan.

I'll be writing more about that at a later time. Thanks for the video!

~Namaste

reply to post by SonOfTheLawOfOne

I have provided more information in this one thread, as a collection of information I have gathered over YEARS, and within that collection, are collections of other people's research over DECADES. Go back and read what I wrote, read the links, get the books and then come back with your ideas and a well-formed argument, PLEASE.

Will do, be back with a more cogent argument after I take everything in word by word. I will not be purchasing any books related on the matter though, unless something truly profound happens in the articles I read, but I did read one and by the likes of it, I don't see that happening with any others.

reply to post by SonOfTheLawOfOne


What an amazingly informative thread!! Thank You very much, SonOfTheLawOfOne.
Additionally, the maturity of character you show in your rebuttals to what is clearly someone who has unfortunately wholly misunderstood the entire OP and your reasonings is comendable and inspiring, to say the least.

As for myself, having once only a basic knowledge and understanding of Mayan beliefs, I used to be one to consider the 2012 hype as mere viral marketing for the film and openly said as much. I understood they had always meant transformation, but had not at that point realised the profundity of their system.
This changed a few years ago when I was asked something which led me to research much further than I had previously done. Looking offline for information is something many more should continue to try.
It was only then, when taking serious time out to study, I discovered much of what you have written about here and my understanding of exactly what the Maya were talking about grew.

I look foreward to your promised thread on crop circles and quetzalcoatl - but how will I find it!?

reply to post by SonOfTheLawOfOne

There is a PHENOMENAL link between crop circles and Quetzalcoatl. There are many crop circles that depict the Mayan and Aztec god in different forms, one of which is the symbol for Venus. I will be doing a separate post on that at a later time, but there has been a Mayan connection to crop circles for quite some time, long before 2012 was hyped up.

Please, post that evidence.

So far from what I can discern from your links is that this should be in the religion forum. You are approaching this at that angle and that is enough for me to stand by my previous comments.

Good day and good night.