Republican Michigan Governor Plans to Raise Taxes on the Poor to Finance Tax cuts for the Rich

You guys are funny, There is no logical way to rehabilitate Michigan after decades of financial pretidigitation.
NO MATHEMATIC WAY. What's the difficulty in understanding that every person owes more than their entire gross worth at currently still inflated levels?Yet again magical thinking by the masses, who upon understanding that the gubmint stole all the funds, good and true union members will strike out to prosecute street justice on all those unwilling to pay them tribute.
Bout time the intentionally poor start getting punished for their lack of contributing to their own upkeep.
Illustrative is the following events of yesterday. A friend tells me he just bought an old house in Tawas. The realtor mentions as a closer that 'the mexicans up here are wonderful,they can do anything you need done for very little money." This in a county where likely more people live below the poverty level than above it, and it's one of the better ones in the area due to Lk Huron shoreline..
If youre not on a farm in Michigan you are gonna die at the hands of the gangs, uniformed and sanctioned or otherwise. MAYBE the lucky ones will end up at camp Graying. OR maybe you'll be taken out first thing, depends on you definition of lucky. There is no alternataive..

From the Op's article

The most notable increases include eliminating the state’s generous pension tax breaks (a change opposed by 53% of state residents) and scrapping the state’s Earned Income Tax Credit (EITC) (a change opposed by 58% of the state). Snyder is also seeking to eliminate extra exemptions available to elderly taxpayers and families with children.

The last time I checked, the poor didn't pay income or state taxes much. They got HUGE returns (basically all of their money back) and that left the middle class AND the wealthy footing the bill.

I pay taxes. Why shouldn't everyone else? This is as close to a flat tax as I've seen, where EVERYONE pays, not just a certain group of people above an arbitrary line.

And for those corporations getting a break? Why not? Michigan is POOR. There is no industry there, there is no incentive to place a business there unless a business can MAKE money.

Originally posted by searching4truth
I do not understand why people are surprised by this. Who finances campaigns? Who makes large political donations? This of course would the wealthy and business, then when their candidate gets elected they expect some sort of gratitude, usually in the form of tax breaks or lower taxes.

The poor do not make political contributions, or at least not large ones and will continue to get screwed.

We should all just stop making any contribution, get out the system, become self reliant and give ol' uncle sam the middle finger! Let's see how that works for the corporations. LOL.
China and India are not going to remain cheap labor forever!!!! One day they will also be rioting in the streets just like UK LIBYA AND EGYPT!

Michigan would become immidiately solvent if it dropped all state pension programs. If you can't save for your own retirement after 20+ years of working for the state making excessive amounts of money(on top of redicules amounts of beneifits) then you should fail. The same goes for the poor. Get rid of all food stamp and assistance programs.

Rich are evil! Tax them! Give the poor welfare! Fatten the government! Kill freedom! UNIONIZE!

If there're jobs then you don't need welfare. That's economy 101. Too bad democrats don't know economy. Unfortunately, years of democrat abuse have forced the states into a position where they MUST tax and they MUST tax big! So the governor is making a compromise. He knows that he needs to encourage business to flourish, but he also knows he has huge budget that must be massaged. There're no easy choices anymore. Hopefully it'll work out and instead of asking for more taxes and more welfare and whatnot, people will have jobs and security and they'll do it themselves.

Originally posted by LordBaskettIV
Michigan would become immidiately solvent if it dropped all state pension programs. If you can't save for your own retirement after 20+ years of working for the state making excessive amounts of money(on top of redicules amounts of beneifits) then you should fail. The same goes for the poor. Get rid of all food stamp and assistance programs.

Right on!

Originally posted by inforeal
reply to post by Jean Paul Zodeaux

 

All of this talk about get your own job, start your own business is rhetoric.

Though, there are many who do that already, so what you are talking about is a straw man.

The facts are, if you care to analyze them and forget that wall street propaganda, is that the vast majority of jobs have been outsourced by greedy American globalist and capitalists, and a bad trade policy. This is bad for the macro economy. Even Reagan’s ex economic czar Paul Craig Roberts admits to this. www.counterpunch.org...

THOSE ARE FACTS, what you are talking about is fantasy.

Millions of young people in good faith go to college in this country hoping to get a decent middle class job to contribute to the economic system and then get a loan that will burden them practically all of their life and now they cant even get a good job, and you blame them for the fractured economy and system.

READ THE ARTICLE AND LEARN SOMTHING

edit on 9-3-2011 by inforeal because: (no reason given)

If you make a practice of saying untrue things you'll start to believe them. Indeed that's what has happened. The poor sit at home complaining because "all the jobs are gone" and "it's not my fault what has happend." What has happened is a self-fullfilling prophecy.

When I was growing up we I noticed a pattern on the day just before a test. I'd see the same students complain and moan about how hard the tests were and how stupid school was. They'd sit in the chairs and talk and talk and then the bell would ring. And then the test would come and they'd have that i-don't-care look on their face because you know they were going to get an F or a D. And it happened time and time again. You know hte opposite was true of people who cared enough to study and do their part. The day before tests they looked relaxed by comparison. I bet it drove the hell out of these F and D students. But you know the point of all this isn't whether you got D's or A's in school, the point is whether you CARE ENOUGH TO LIFT YOURSELF UP OFF THE FLOOR AND MAKE MONEY AND DO WHAT IT TAKES TO MAKE YOURSELF SUCCESSFUL.

History is full of example of people who had NOTHING and their life was SH**. We've all heard hte stories. But there's this thing that happens... this point where they realize they have to do something or the rest of their life will be SH**. It's at that point that a person becomes an adult.

I've overheard so much moaning in my life that I honestly don't hear it anymore.

reply to post by inforeal


There you go whining more. Louder and bigger this time, and demanding that everyone whine with you. So, you scream that it is all helpless, and all anyone can do is complain along with you.

For your edification, a "strawman argument" is when one misrepresents the opponents position by attacking an illusory argument not made by the opponent. Yet, I have not misrepresented your position. You clearly believe that other people owe you a job. You clearly have no intention of starting your own business, or creating wealth all on your own, and worse, you are dismissive of those who do. You were clear about this from the beginning, and your reply to my admonishment of your whining only further reveals your refusal to accept responsibility for the problem yourself.

You want to blame others for your problems. You have no answers, and can only offer blame, and worse, you hope to convince everyone else that it is all a helpless situation and the only thing we can do is convince the very corporations you want to blame to give us some jobs. It is sadly pathetic.

reply to post by ldyserenity


That's a little easier said than done though. The vast majority of people work for someone else, and there taxes are taken out before they even have the option to "raise their middle finger". Fortunately or not (depending on the economy) I own my business, I could of course not pay my taxes every month; however, I would lose my business license and then be unemployed myself as well as the people that work for me.

Originally posted by LordBaskettIV
Michigan would become immidiately solvent if it dropped all state pension programs. If you can't save for your own retirement after 20+ years of working for the state making excessive amounts of money(on top of redicules amounts of beneifits) then you should fail. The same goes for the poor. Get rid of all food stamp and assistance programs.

Drop pensions? Those pensions ARE a savings program...mutually agreed upon. Further, the employer portions are deferred wages...mutually negotiated. Your attitude is facile, and frankly, I would regard it as un-American to throw your brothers and sisters under the bus in that callous a manner.

As to the poor...what so you suggest for them?

Snyder is going to do what's good for him and business. The past administrations have been kicking this can down the road and now we've run out of road. Michigan has had a balanced budget every year using gimmicks and book keeping tricks.

Snyder is trying to make Michigan more business friendly so we can have a bunch of low paying jobs and he can say "see I lowered the unemployment rate"
But that is about the tax plan he has. This thread is about legislation to give appointed emergency managers power to break contracts and effectively taking power away from local ELECTED officials. The emergency manager will be able to over ride decisions made by mayors, city councils, township trustees and school boards. All of which are elected by the people and answerable to the people. These emergency managers are not elected and only answer to the person appointing them, Mr. Snyder.

To all the people who say "start your own business". Well businesses need workers, workers need livable wages. How many mom and pop companies get run into the ground by big business? Do we really need more internet startups or landscaping, roofing companies when people can't afford to hire them for work?

Like it or not unions built the middle class. As the unions lost members and power in the past couple of decades wages have not kept up with inflation and wage disparity between workers and executives has increased exponentionally.

Can anyone honestly tell me that any given CEO is worth millions of times more than the employee who designs and builds the product that makes a company profit?

This nation has become an oligarchy and is doomed to fail.

Originally posted by Jean Paul Zodeaux
reply to post by inforeal

 

Or that there are no more jobs . . . we rich people have outsourced them so we can make a personal profit. To Hell with the American worker. Let them work at Burger King and have no union rights anymore.

Jobs, jobs, jobs! Why is it the people screaming the loudest about there being no more jobs aren't complaining because they are trying to create new jobs, or that they are trying to go into business for themselves, but instead are "workers" who seem to think jobs grow on trees, and someone isn't picking enough jobs for the "workers" lately.

"To hell with the American worker"? If the American worker can't figure out what to do in the face of adversity, then what good is that American worker? Is that what made America once great? That the American worker whined loudly enough about the circumstances that those evil rich people got off their arses and went to the job orchard and picked some juicy ripe jobs for the whiners?

You poor and middle class people have to realize that we are the great ones who may if we choose, trickle down some money to you . . .that is after we use our money to make as much as we can on speculative junk that creates no jobs, then we may throw a bone or two at you and then watch as you all fight for it.

And why shouldn't they laugh if all the "American worker" can do is fight over bones tossed to them by those evil rich people. If you don't want to put something into the economy by creating your own business, and if successful creating your own jobs, then accept the responsibility that comes along with being the "American worker", which is to be laughed at all day long. The new comedians are the "American worker", and their special brand of humor is to endlessly whine about how nobody does enough for them.

You are the sort of person that will provide for the subjugation of the masses by the minority, and because you do not realize it, I pity you.

reply to post by duality90

You are the sort of person that will provide for the subjugation of the masses by the minority, and because you do not realize it, I pity you.

How ironic is this? I have just finished reading the vile ad hominem attacks you have spewed in a different thread. You are nothing more than a wanna be priest class lawyer who utters their mystical incantations to the laity expecting them to all bow down and worship the priest class for their mystic wisdom.

In the United States for sure, no group outside of the priest class lawyer set, has done more to provide for the subjection of the masses. The entire rise of credentialism was authored by and legislated by lawyers. The bogus licensing schemes hoisted upon an ignorant masses has done more to kill entrepreneurship and small business than any other market force known to humanity, and these licensing schemes are a result of the priest class lawyer set.

Pity me? I have no doubt you do you pompous ass. Now go put on your powdered wig and pretend you are doing some good. You may be able to fool yourself, but you don't have me fooled in the slightest you pathetic poser.

Originally posted by CerBeRus666
reply to post by Janky Red

 

Jobs...are you suggesting giving them jobs?

They don't want jobs, they don't want to work, educate themselves, re-qualify, learn, or adapt, to new circumstances, create, or help generate, new wealth...nooooooo. That's so 50's!!!

They want handouts. They want to be slobs, and sit in their filthy houses, watching TV, drinking, and getting high, all day...that's what they want...

Jobs, let other have that hassle...keep those Big Government Handouts coming, that's what they want! And that is also why nobody, in their right mind, will give an "American Worker" so much as a look.

- Curiously, the immigrants find it quite easy to get those elusive jobs...maybe because they actually are willing to work.
- Also curious is the relation between State Bankruptcy, and the power of the Comm....errrrrrr Unions in those States...

Liked your post, but think you're being a little naive in actually thinking that "they" want Jobs...least of all to work...

A large portion of the unemployed or underemployed emphatically do not enjoy living hand to mouth. There is of course the minority of those who are truly purely lazy and willing to do whatever it takes to avoid work, but they are definitely not the majority. Alot of people on lower incomes these days have to supplement themselves with charity food donations - people want to work, there just is not the amount of work necessary to employ everyone. When you say that "they" (who they are, I do not know) are too lazy, are you seriously trying to get me to believe that 9% of the labour force are just too lazy to work and don't care that they are living hand to mouth?

I doubt it. Pull your head out of the sand and have some sympathy. It might be your job that's axed next and then we'll see just how ruthlessly unsympathetic you are.

Originally posted by Jean Paul Zodeaux
reply to post by duality90

 

You are the sort of person that will provide for the subjugation of the masses by the minority, and because you do not realize it, I pity you.

How ironic is this? I have just finished reading the vile ad hominem attacks you have spewed in a different thread. You are nothing more than a wanna be priest class lawyer who utters their mystical incantations to the laity expecting them to all bow down and worship the priest class for their mystic wisdom.

In the United States for sure, no group outside of the priest class lawyer set, has done more to provide for the subjection of the masses. The entire rise of credentialism was authored by and legislated by lawyers. The bogus licensing schemes hoisted upon an ignorant masses has done more to kill entrepreneurship and small business than any other market force known to humanity, and these licensing schemes are a result of the priest class lawyer set.

Pity me? I have no doubt you do you pompous ass. Now go put on your powdered wig and pretend you are doing some good. You may be able to fool yourself, but you don't have me fooled in the slightest you pathetic poser.

If by 'spewing hate' you mean telling people the truth, then yes, I freely admit to it. That thread was about someone making the insane claim that you can avoid tax by challenging the Court's authority and jurisdiction to tax individuals. It was utterly vapid.

I commented on your prior post because you are so grotesquely out of touch with what a large portion of the population in America are living with right now. I have little sympathy for those that cannot have sympathy for others.

Originally posted by Jean Paul Zodeaux
reply to post by duality90

 

You are the sort of person that will provide for the subjugation of the masses by the minority, and because you do not realize it, I pity you.

How ironic is this? I have just finished reading the vile ad hominem attacks you have spewed in a different thread. You are nothing more than a wanna be priest class lawyer who utters their mystical incantations to the laity expecting them to all bow down and worship the priest class for their mystic wisdom.

In the United States for sure, no group outside of the priest class lawyer set, has done more to provide for the subjection of the masses. The entire rise of credentialism was authored by and legislated by lawyers. The bogus licensing schemes hoisted upon an ignorant masses has done more to kill entrepreneurship and small business than any other market force known to humanity, and these licensing schemes are a result of the priest class lawyer set.

Pity me? I have no doubt you do you pompous ass. Now go put on your powdered wig and pretend you are doing some good. You may be able to fool yourself, but you don't have me fooled in the slightest you pathetic poser.

Furthermore, as I noted in the other thread, lawyers can be and are a positive good for society.

Just as with any other demographic, you have the opportunists and the truly ruthless who are there to pursue profit, but who else is going to stand between the arbitrary exercise of governmental power and the individual viz. you? I am aware of how infuriatingly complex the law can be, and although I do not wish to patronise the public at large, lawyers are a necessity in order to ensure that those rules which have been established to check government power are enforced and adhered to.

Not everyone is out to purely turn profit. Rational self-interest is one thing, but we are all (some of us more so than others) human, in the end.

It is exactly that unsympathetic mindset that is polarising the American public right now. The middle class have no sympathy for the working class, the poor,and the unemployed because they have been consistently told that, in America, hard work will get you anywhere, and will give you everything you have ever wanted.

I'm sorry, but that is just plainly not true. Hard work is not without its merits, but life is more complex than simply being rewarded for putting effort into something. People who find themselves in unenviable circumstances may be at no fault whatsoever themselves - they may very well be victims of circumstance. Why is it so morally repugnant to be of the opinion that that 'failure' is not in itself something to be the object of disgust and public contempt?

I hate to say it, but if you look at the world's more socialist countries (not communist) with very high taxes, their people are by and large amongst the happiest on earth. Is happiness not what we all strive for? This caustic environment where we all become immediately vitriolic at the suggestion that taxpayer money be used to ease the burden on the poor or even the employed and middle class (i.e. a healthcare system which is NOT dominated by insurance companies) is tearing this nation apart.

If we're willing to break bread on a sunday with a complete stranger, why do we hate and demonise the world as soon as we've left the pulpit? This country needs to take a long and serious look at its moral values such that we can determine the direction in which we are all headed in the next 10-15 years when the American supereconomy is superseded by China and India.

I'll just leave this image over here. let you guys figure out what to make of it.

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/dfde78c7e27d.jpg[/atsimg]

reply to post by duality90

If by 'spewing hate' you mean telling people the truth, then yes, I freely admit to it.

Typical of the ever deceitful priest class lawyer set, they will place quotation marks around a phrase that is not at all a direct quote of the person they pretend to be quoting. You did not engage in any truth in that other thread and spent the vast majority of your posts in that thread attacking other peoples positions without offering any support of your arguments. Your reifications are unimpressive.

That thread was about someone making the insane claim that you can avoid tax by challenging the Court's authority and jurisdiction to tax individuals. It was utterly vapid.

Either you are willfully lying, or are as ignorant as you come off. That thread is not about what you claim it is, and is instead a thread asking about the proper jurisdiction of courts, and wondering if the "freeman movement" is on to something.

I commented on your prior post because you are so grotesquely out of touch with what a large portion of the population in America are living with right now. I have little sympathy for those that cannot have sympathy for others.

You arrogant snob! You have clearly made assumptions about me that are so off base the stench of your odious arrogance can be smelled clear across the Atlantic. Out of touch, am I? You fool, until two years ago I was a working class slob desperately trying to climb out of debt with no hopes of ever doing so. I finally found the courage to quit my job and strike out on my own. I still struggle to this day, and by struggle I mean really struggle in ways your privileged ass probably has no idea what is meant by struggle. As I write this post I am down to my last $24 and unclear when my next paying gig will come in.

Let me make this clear. I do not offer this full disclosure to whine about my situation, but instead to clear up the matter with the pretentious in this thread who wish to immediately assume that just because I don't fall in step to the Marxist mantras that I must be some evil rich guy. I have been poor all my life, and I if I ever do build any wealth, it will be because of the efforts I have made these past few years, and the years that follow, and will have nothing at all to do with the wasted years I spent working for other clowns.

I do not pity you, I revile you and your ilk. It is you who wish to subjugate and you who are out of touch with the real problems of people. I am in contact with those people on a daily basis, and they do not pity me for my efforts, they pay me the respect I have earned, those who can afford my services hire me out of that respect, and those who can't offer a contract of barter. They understand what I stand for, and they are waking up and are beginning to understand what people like you stand for, and if I were you, I would tone down the arrogance a notch or two, as you have no idea the tumult that will surely come if the priest class lawyer set and their government cronies do not back off of the market place and let be what must let be.

Originally posted by JohnnyCanuck

Originally posted by LordBaskettIV
Michigan would become immidiately solvent if it dropped all state pension programs. If you can't save for your own retirement after 20+ years of working for the state making excessive amounts of money(on top of redicules amounts of beneifits) then you should fail. The same goes for the poor. Get rid of all food stamp and assistance programs.

Drop pensions? Those pensions ARE a savings program...mutually agreed upon. Further, the employer portions are deferred wages...mutually negotiated. Your attitude is facile, and frankly, I would regard it as un-American to throw your brothers and sisters under the bus in that callous a manner.

As to the poor...what so you suggest for them?

You have obviously not lived in the United States in the past few years. The nation puts on a face of unity and solidarity in the face of burgeoning military commitments, but the moment money or taxation comes into it, there may as well be no federal government and simply 50 sovereign nations all hating each other.

Originally posted by Jean Paul Zodeaux
reply to post by duality90

 

If by 'spewing hate' you mean telling people the truth, then yes, I freely admit to it.

Typical of the ever deceitful priest class lawyer set, they will place quotation marks around a phrase that is not at all a direct quote of the person they pretend to be quoting. You did not engage in any truth in that other thread and spent the vast majority of your posts in that thread attacking other peoples positions without offering any support of your arguments. Your reifications are unimpressive.

That thread was about someone making the insane claim that you can avoid tax by challenging the Court's authority and jurisdiction to tax individuals. It was utterly vapid.

Either you are willfully lying, or are as ignorant as you come off. That thread is not about what you claim it is, and is instead a thread asking about the proper jurisdiction of courts, and wondering if the "freeman movement" is on to something.

I commented on your prior post because you are so grotesquely out of touch with what a large portion of the population in America are living with right now. I have little sympathy for those that cannot have sympathy for others.

You arrogant snob! You have clearly made assumptions about me that are so off base the stench of your odious arrogance can be smelled clear across the Atlantic. Out of touch, am I? You fool, until two years ago I was a working class slob desperately trying to climb out of debt with no hopes of ever doing so. I finally found the courage to quit my job and strike out on my own. I still struggle to this day, and by struggle I mean really struggle in ways your privileged ass probably has no idea what is meant by struggle. As I write this post I am down to my last $24 and unclear when my next paying gig will come in.

Let me make this clear. I do not offer this full disclosure to whine about my situation, but instead to clear up the matter with the pretentious in this thread who wish to immediately assume that just because I don't fall in step to the Marxist mantras that I must be some evil rich guy. I have been poor all my life, and I if I ever do build any wealth, it will be because of the efforts I have made these past few years, and the years that follow, and will have nothing at all to do with the wasted years I spent working for other clowns.

I do not pity you, I revile you and your ilk. It is you who wish to subjugate and you who are out of touch with the real problems of people. I am in contact with those people on a daily basis, and they do not pity me for my efforts, they pay me the respect I have earned, those who can afford my services hire me out of that respect, and those who can't offer a contract of barter. They understand what I stand for, and they are waking up and are beginning to understand what people like you stand for, and if I were you, I would tone down the arrogance a notch or two, as you have no idea the tumult that will surely come if the priest class lawyer set and their government cronies do not back off of the market place and let be what must let be.

This - ' - is not a quotation mark. This - " - is a quotation mark. I was not quoting you. I was paraphrasing you, and it made little difference.

There is no 'proof' or 'evidence' to be given, other than pointing one in the direction of the local Law Library of a University or College. What I was stating are general principles of the law.

Furthermore, various posters in that thread talked about 'letting the cat out of the bag' by 'successfully' using the so-called 'legal tactics' in court. I was responding to their insane claims of having subjugated two of the world's oldest systems of justice by simply going 'John Smith is not here. I am John Smith. I represent John Smith' whilst plainly misunderstanding what 'legal personality' is and what the legal definition of corporation is.

Evidently I have presumed wrong about you. But if that is the case and you have been there amidst the rough, why do you hate the poor and the unemployed so much? Perhaps I have inferred wrong from your posts, but for someone who sounds like they could do with a safety-net to fall back on, you seem oddly resentful of the idea of governmental intervention to help the unemployed.

Also, why the constant hatred of lawyers? It's the corporate bankers and the lobbyists you should be hanging out to dry. Lawyers are the ones who do all the bloody legwork for the aforementioned sharks and get paid a hell of a lot less than the effort which goes into such complex work warrants. Many lawyers in this country work in small offices and firms across the country and aren't exactly living the high life in the Hamptons with the wall street slime.