William Rodriguez is a Fraud

Originally posted by boondock-saint
I don't agree with this OP

and I don't think Willy is a fraud

Fair enough.

I've linked to an article which shows that Willy could not physically have done what he claims within the established time line. His story is transparently contrived and in the context of being part of a large operation like this, the cover story would need many reinforcing elements; the Naudets, Willy, Flight 93...honestly...we all love our heroes, and Hollywood loves to deliver them.

State your case please. What in the OP don't you agree with, and why don't you think Willy's a fraud?

reply to post by Yankee451


I believe you are 100% correct when you say that you will not convince anyone. At this point I think it is fair to say that people have generally made up their minds regarding 9/11.

I must say I find it very presumptuous of you to suggest that anyone here at ATS needs to do more research or look over more data. For myself... I have reviewed more information and data than you can possibly imagine.

I mean no disrespect when I say this, but I find your theory to be insulting. I hope you mean well and you are simply searching for truth. If that is the case, I am sorry to tell you that you have been had. You have fallen prey, like many others before you, to disinfo which is put out to discredit the truth movement as a whole. Make no mistake about it, that is the purpose of these outlandish theories, and people who do not believe as you do who simply want unanswered questions to be answered and believe that a new investigation is warranted get lumped in with those who do believe as you do in an attempt to make us all look like lunatics. With all due respect, you do more harm to the truth movement than you do good.

There is plenty of true hardcore evidence to bring about a new investigation and that should be the goal of the truth movement. I have my suspicions as to what happened on that fateful day, but my suspicions mean nothing. The goal of the truth movement is a new investigation and by aligning yourself to a specific theory you are doing more harm than good. Let a real independent investigation answer the questions.

The Nuadet brothers were the only photographers to film the impact of the first plane from Duane street.

Now is this a co-incidence?:

Naudets is an anagram of Duane St.......Hmmmm

check out www.cluesforum.info...

for more startling revelations of fakery and the rest of the site site with blow your mind.

Last time i checked, Phil jayhan from letsroll911 loved William R. and promoted him at every chance. Jayhan tried to align himslef with Rodriguez for publicity and hopes to parrallel William's story with missile pods and Space beams. William flat out refused becuase he is aware of who Jayhan, fetzer and other paid misinformants and propagandists are and knows that their job is to obsefucate and derail, mislead and distort, smear and discredit the whole truth movement. They want you to focus on what happened after the crime.

The conspiracy happened before the planes even took off, before they hit the buildings. Focus on that and not on the after events.

reply to post by MrWendal


There should be a real investigation on why there isn't any new investigation.

I don't think there's going to be any new independent investigation.

So that means we have to be prepared for that and to go further. Whether or not there's a new independent investigation, we need to know what really happened. And that means we have to look at and maybe think/suggest things that will possibly upset some people. Especially the people who don't want or who are actively thwarting any action and talk of a new independent investigation.

This thing is Big and so I would expect includes plans to stop any real independent investigation.

I think there isn't going to ever be one frankly. Just like JFK - no real independent investigation that ever found anything that would stick etc. No, this case is going to be CRACKED and viral media upped... then, someone might squeal or people start fingering and paying... and that will start the "investigation".

All this talk of 'let's concentrate on what gets a real independent investigation' just irks me and sounds like herding everyone along nicely, can't have anyone going off and digging where they shouldn't be... "Let's all play along and strive for something that ain't gonna happen because if it's a hoax stalling any new investigation would've also been planned in!" And so therefore it's kind of useless.

Relentless rabid cracking pressure is what is needed IMHO.

Cheers

Originally posted by SphinxMontreal
The tops of the buildings were probably hollow and unoccupied. How come, out of those alleged hundreds/thousands who were trapped, nobody was breaking windows and sticking their heads out seeking help and air? What happened to the remains? How many bodies were unaccounted for again?

There was. Lots of them. Some even jumped to their deaths.

Originally posted by Shadow Herder
Last time i checked, Phil jayhan from letsroll911 loved William R. and promoted him at every chance. Jayhan tried to align himslef with Rodriguez for publicity and hopes to parrallel William's story with missile pods and Space beams. William flat out refused becuase he is aware of who Jayhan, fetzer and other paid misinformants and propagandists are and knows that their job is to obsefucate and derail, mislead and distort, smear and discredit the whole truth movement. They want you to focus on what happened after the crime.

The conspiracy happened before the planes even took off, before they hit the buildings. Focus on that and not on the after events.

edit on 4-3-2011 by Shadow Herder because: (no reason given)

I see...so if someone learns new information which contradicts old information, they shouldn't reconsider their position. I see that rationale a lot on this forum.

The conspiracy happened about 30 years before the 'alleged' planes left the building. Focus on that AND the after events.

How the hell do you know what leads are worth following, until you follow them?

Originally posted by FDNY343

Originally posted by SphinxMontreal

There was. Lots of them. Some even jumped to their deaths.

Or were pushed, or were cadavers from the morgue. This is a crime scene where the official investigators never even established a murder weapon. No question should be avoided.

Originally posted by Yankee451

Originally posted by FDNY343

Originally posted by SphinxMontreal

There was. Lots of them. Some even jumped to their deaths.

Or were pushed, or were cadavers from the morgue. This is a crime scene where the official investigators never even established a murder weapon. No question should be avoided.

Omg but really? You are not a truther but someone who is posing as one to smear the movement.

That is insane and I have been a truther since before the phrase was coined.

Originally posted by MrWendal
reply to post by Yankee451

 

I believe you are 100% correct when you say that you will not convince anyone. At this point I think it is fair to say that people have generally made up their minds regarding 9/11.

I must say I find it very presumptuous of you to suggest that anyone here at ATS needs to do more research or look over more data. For myself... I have reviewed more information and data than you can possibly imagine.

I mean no disrespect when I say this, but I find your theory to be insulting. I hope you mean well and you are simply searching for truth. If that is the case, I am sorry to tell you that you have been had. You have fallen prey, like many others before you, to disinfo which is put out to discredit the truth movement as a whole. Make no mistake about it, that is the purpose of these outlandish theories, and people who do not believe as you do who simply want unanswered questions to be answered and believe that a new investigation is warranted get lumped in with those who do believe as you do in an attempt to make us all look like lunatics. With all due respect, you do more harm to the truth movement than you do good.

There is plenty of true hardcore evidence to bring about a new investigation and that should be the goal of the truth movement. I have my suspicions as to what happened on that fateful day, but my suspicions mean nothing. The goal of the truth movement is a new investigation and by aligning yourself to a specific theory you are doing more harm than good. Let a real independent investigation answer the questions.

The only reason anyone should be insulted by these lines of investigation is if you've already made up your minds.

No question in a case like this is too probing; nothing is inappropriate except claiming someone, or some group is beyond reproach...it is inappropriate to the investigation, insulting to the victims and their survivors, and insulting to anyone's intelligence.

No topic is off the table.

Originally posted by Shadow Herder

Originally posted by Yankee451

Originally posted by FDNY343

Originally posted by SphinxMontreal

There was. Lots of them. Some even jumped to their deaths.

Or were pushed, or were cadavers from the morgue. This is a crime scene where the official investigators never even established a murder weapon. No question should be avoided.

Omg but really? You are not a truther but someone who is posing as one to smear the movement.

That is insane and I have been a truther since before the phrase was coined.

edit on 4-3-2011 by Shadow Herder because: (no reason given)

Thanks for clearing that up. I didn't see any of your work though, can you point me to your research?

Being a "truther" means its impossible to smear a "movement" which was started by the same people who committed the crimes. If you don't know that most folks within "the movement" should be considered suspect, you're not much of a truther.

reply to post by SphinxMontreal


feel free to watch any of the hundreds of videos showing people breaking windows, waving shirts and then jumping to their deaths.

Or were pushed, or were cadavers from the morgue.

dear god you can't be serious! Well, if you are, there you go, forget 9/11, the real thing to investigate is how the US government managed to reanimate a few hundred corpses.

Bravo, we see you as the disinfo artist you are, kudos to your half baked ideas and blatant falsehoods, kudos sir.

here's something I'd like answered then, if Willie is a fraud perpetrated by those who did this, why is his testimony not in the NIST report? Riddle me that oh grandmaster of illusion.

holograms? Pod people? Lions, bears, missiles oh my. If anyone is still on the fence, you can pretty much discount anything this guy has to say.

holograms. WTf, they pulled half an engine out of a building. holograms, explain that to the guy who lived beside my step father in New Jersey that ever came home. Explain that to the other Lawyer who watched a car behind him, leaving the parking area, get crushed with debris. Explain that to the neighborhoods in New Jersey where kids had to come home to empty houses as their parents DIED.

We're about investigation, not inventing stupid theories that don't make sense.

The buildings were built with explosives in them? That is the most ludicrous claim yet from you people. Beyond the fact that the construction was WELL documented, beyond the fact that there was already a bombing in 93, it's just insanity. You honestly have no clue and your sole purpose is to distract and derail. We see through it like a hologram.

where are the staircases? Where's the damn building? it turned to dust which is half the reason there IS a truth movement. The biggest piece of identifiable office supplies they found was half a touch tone phone pad.

Yes the buildings were under occupied, but hardly empty, there were around 50,000 people working in those towers and it's a miracle (or conspiracy) that most weren't there yet when this happened.

Man crap like this really makes my blood boil, I apologize for the badly strung together post, but man, I'm seeing red.

Originally posted by phishyblankwaters
reply to post by SphinxMontreal

 

feel free to watch any of the hundreds of videos showing people breaking windows, waving shirts and then jumping to their deaths.

I'm looking for non-tampered-with examples. Got any?

reply to post by Yankee451

The only reason anyone should be insulted by these lines of investigation is if you've already made up your minds.

Yeah, right, thats the only reason. People have made up the minds, as is appropriate. Its ten years and unless there are new facts offered then its done.

No question in a case like this is too probing;

There is a big difference between a real question and a baseless accusation or sick fantasy with a question mark at the end.

nothing is inappropriate except claiming someone, or some group is beyond reproach...

Really? So every human being on earth is a suspect until they've proven their innocence to you?

it is inappropriate to the investigation, insulting to the victims and their survivors, and insulting to anyone's intelligence.

Well, you do seem to know something about being insulting.

No topic is off the table.

Topic? Or fantasy?

reply to post by phishyblankwaters


Yeah, yeah, I'm a disinfo agent, I know. I used to give that all the time, but now I get that all the time. My how the mighty have fallen. Now that I'm on this side of the fence, I must say its a chickensh!t argument the using of which shames me to recall.

Who mentioned holograms? Try to stay on topic Phish man, you're squirming all over the place.

What's your point please, state your case in a way that we crazy people can understand.

reply to post by hooper


Got a point? Anything even close to the topic you'd like to discuss or are you just here to show me your ability to set up straw men?

Originally posted by Yankee451
reply to post by hooper

 

Got a point? Anything even close to the topic you'd like to discuss or are you just here to show me your ability to set up straw men?

Or were pushed, or were cadavers from the morgue.

Your words, just a sick fantasy, no strawman.

Originally posted by hooper

Originally posted by Yankee451
reply to post by hooper

 

Got a point? Anything even close to the topic you'd like to discuss or are you just here to show me your ability to set up straw men?

Or were pushed, or were cadavers from the morgue.

Your words, just a sick fantasy, no strawman.

Is that your point then? Sick fantasy?

You're a person of few words, but you are entitled to your opinions I guess, regardless how you arrive at them. Unlike you, I've provided reasons for my opinions.

reply to post by Yankee451

Is that your point then? Sick fantasy?

No, now I'm thinking more like a cry for attention.

You're a person of few words, but you are entitled to your opinions I guess, regardless how you arrive at them.

No, this isn't a case of "you got your opinion and I've got mine". We're not talking about something subjective like the literary quality of the latest novel or the artistic merit of modern art. This is objective reality.

Unlike you, I've provided reasons for my opinions.

Oh, so now I need a "reason" for not thinking cadevers were thrown from the windows of the World Trade Center on 9/11? Do I need a reason for not thinking that the moon is made of cheese?

No, now I'm thinking more like a cry for attention.

If you really thought I wanted your attention, I doubt you'd feed that desire by replying to me.

No, this isn't a case of "you got your opinion and I've got mine". We're not talking about something subjective like the literary quality of the latest novel or the artistic merit of modern art. This is objective reality.

Agreed...but you're trying to dictate what objective details of the reality shouldn't be observed. Doesn't figger...just like the cry for attention comment.

Oh, so now I need a "reason" for not thinking cadevers were thrown from the windows of the World Trade Center on 9/11?

No, evidently you don't need any reasons for coming to your conclusions. Must be cool, but I'm hampered by skepticism.

Do I need a reason for not thinking that the moon is made of cheese?

Nope, only if you're out to convince someone else of that. You might also want to start your own thread.