Wisconsin Senate passes resolution calling for Democrats to be taken into police custody

reply to post by Annee


I don't think you understand what is proposed in the bill. They aren't going to sell the public utilities, they are getting the option to sell utility plants that are operated by the Department of Administration for heating/cooling some states run facilities like University of Wisconsin, prisons, and health services facilities.
It's giving control of utilities for state buildings not the general public, to private entities than can hopefully operate them at a lower cost to the state then they currently are.
The utilities that the general public use, are already private companies and the most likely candidate to purchase these state utilities would be Madison Gas and Electric Co. since they already operate in the area(not Koch Industries as many insist on ATS).

reply to post by Silverlok


I understand what you are saying, but I think you are over complicating the issue at hand.

The central issue is the Govenor wants to remove collective bargaining only from Public school teacher Unions (which is the exact same setup Fire Departments as well as Law Enforcement have, no collective bargaining).

If you take some time to read Union Contracts, from all sectors, you will find agreements in there that would make you pull your hair out. Job Security, higher wages even when the company is not making / lossing money, protection of workers who were fired for being drunk / under the influence of driugs on the job, etc etc etc.

Public Schools are in a complete state of disrepair and need to be fixed. The actual education of our students starts at home, and continues into the classroom.

As an example, a history teacher at one of my coworkers kids school felt the need to teach the class that the US civil war was fought over the issue of slavery. My friends daughter challeneged that notion, making the argument it was based on states rights (and she is correct). Not only did she get in trouble for "arguing" with the teacher, she had to prove her information was correct.

Private schools spend less money per student and achieve higher test scores. The reason why is they can fire teacher who are under performing.

Good luck doing that in a Public School.


Personally speaking I think our education budget at the Federal level should be higher than that of our Defense Budget.

Education is the silver bullet, with out doubt. Its the only thing that is going to move us forward as a society.

However, when the majority of the money in the till is going to salaries and benefiets, and we are not getting a return on our investment, which is exactly what education is, what do we do?

I wont even touch the illegal manner they are protesting (calling in sick) in addition to getting fradulent Doctors notes.

Explain to me how that is responsible, since tis the same argument they use against the Governor, that he is being irresponsible with this situation.

Nothing like cutting off your own nose to spite your face.

reply to post by Annee

Please explain to me exactly why the Democrats felt they had to flee.

Quite condescending aren't we? But I'll bite.

Gov. Walker is trying to eliminate the collective bargaining rights of unions. With The Republicans holding 19 seats in the Wisconsin State senate they need 1 more vote for this bill to be passed officially. The 14 Democrats "fled" to obfuscate, was that word to big for you, the voting on this bill. Efforts for a compromise have been hampered by Walker's unwillingness to budge on the collective bargaining despite the fact the unions gave into to every other concession asked of them. And now he is blocking access to the capital after office hours to the protesters and apparently some lawmakers as well, (D) Nick Milroy.

This is bigger than Wisconsin and gov. Walker because this might, and some say already has, set a precedent for other states with similar problems with budgets and Republican control of the state senates and governor's office. Fleeing state senates has also become quite popular in several other states with democratic lawmakers.

So have I answered this to your satisfaction or am I still in that "ignorant of the facts" group of yours?? No need to reply that was rhetorical. I just want to let you know that people such as myself can have a completely different viewpoint than you and strangely enough not be stupid.

Originally posted by bphi1908
reply to post by Annee

 

Please explain to me exactly why the Democrats felt they had to flee.

Quite condescending aren't we? But I'll bite.

Its a question.

Any feelings/interpretation beyond that comes from you.

Originally posted by PplVSNWO
They aren't going to sell the public utilities, they are getting the option to sell utility plants that are operated by the Department of Administration for heating/cooling some states run facilities like University of Wisconsin, prisons, and health services facilities.

It's giving control of utilities for state buildings not the general public, to private entities than can hopefully operate them at a lower cost to the state then they currently are.

Oh -- believe me - - I understand that perfectly. I don't think you do. And don't bother telling me its not the same thing.

Deregulation and the California Utilities

“The verdict is in: California’s experiment with energy deregulation is not just a mess; it’s a certifiable failure, according to everyone from the state governor to the very utilities that initially backed the scheme.

www.econedlink.org...

reply to post by macman


Oh yeah, and because they disagree with the population being slaughtered like sheep and left to rot like dogs.
Baaaa Baaaa! Why are we being funneled into railroad cars? Baaaa! Why do we have to stay inside the fence? Baaaa Baaaa! Why are they shaving off our wool? Baaaa Baaaa!

WAKE UP! THOSE PEOPLE WOULD TRADE YOUR LIFE TO GET ICE AND A STRAW FOR THEIR COKE!

As far as I can tell, the energy systems up for sale could do three things

get rid of union state employees

prove a lucrative source of revenue, as private utilities could then contract with the state to run their systems, getting paid with taxpayer dollars (state can't pay energy bills? fire more public servants)

stop state energy systems from using biomass for fuel source, keep coal/natural gas

Isn't it funny that Republicans are always complaining about less government – but yet when 14 senators go missing they still cry foul?

Now, don't take my sarcasm to heart – the truth of the matter is that all of these right wing groups are so scared about marshal law, or a police state but yet they support this governor? You have to question the actions of an individual that wields power beyond dictation.

“Hey, if there isn't a law that is written to bring these senators back – we'll damn sure make one.”

What a dictator.

You might be Right, You might be Left – but the only way is Progress.

Illinois should invade Wisconsin and liberate them LOL hahahah

Originally posted by bphi1908
So have I answered this to your satisfaction or am I still in that "ignorant of the facts" group of yours?? No need to reply that was rhetorical. I just want to let you know that people such as myself can have a completely different viewpoint than you and strangely enough not be stupid.

I addressed no one specific in my post - - that you are all riled up about.

You volunteered.

Originally posted by crimvelvet
reply to post by rogerstigers

 

Thank you for the clarification that this is entirely legal.

Those senators are PAID to do a job and they are REFUSING to do it. They SHOULD be forced to come back or give up their seats and another election held.

Darn Crybabies....

Maybe they are setting a political statement. How else are you going to get change to happen? Ask for it? HA. Every single politician should just walk out. F*** the world as it is.

Another election is just going to mean the same old cycle of S**T. I'm tired of all the S**T. Something needs to happen... why not this?

Originally posted by PplVSNWO
reply to post by Annee

 

I don't think you understand what is proposed in the bill. They aren't going to sell the public utilities, they are getting the option to sell utility plants that are operated by the Department of Administration for heating/cooling some states run facilities like University of Wisconsin, prisons, and health services facilities.
It's giving control of utilities for state buildings not the general public, to private entities than can hopefully operate them at a lower cost to the state then they currently are.

Here in Chicago Mayor Daley sold the parking meters to a private company. Chicago now has the highest parking prices in the US.

Who will they be competing against?....no one...it's called a sole source contract or a monopoly.
It's the same market system now but with less control.

Originally posted by Daughter2
Here in Chicago Mayor Daley sold the parking meters to a private company. Chicago now has the highest parking prices in the US.

Who will they be competing against?....no one...it's called a sole source contract or a monopoly.
It's the same market system now but with less control.

Thank you Daughter2.

Yep - - "they" talk a good game of how its going to save the state money - - - until they've got the control.

You know the reality of it. As do I.

Originally posted by MindSpin



I don't care where you stand on the Union issue...no one should be supporting one political party using the police as their personal guard to push policy.

No where in the Wisconsin state constitution or senate laws does it forbid what the Democrats have done...they are not breaking any laws or any rules. They are working within the system to protest proposed legislation and stop the Governor from pushing it through without debate.

You don't think there's a slight problem with legislators who refuse to vote? Can you imagine the fuss the Demorats would have made if the Republican minority (in protest) refused to vote on Obamacare at all? It would have been a zoo. It was a zoo anyway but it would have been 100 times worse.

Originally posted by Annee

Originally posted by bphi1908
It bothers me that you, among others, think anyone who doesn't agree with you is uneducated on this subject or so ignorant that they just want to "blame Democrats". Our whole political system is being put to the test here based on the actions of the people involved, both gov. Walker and the Democrats who fled.

Please explain to me exactly why the Democrats felt they had to flee.

Welcome to the new political party!

The Fleebaggers!

or...

is it the Fleabaggers?

Turn tail and run and hide, holing up in hotels is the new black for politics.

Not only is it Wisconsin, but Indiana as well. Indiana just hasn't gotten the same amount of press.

By any means necessary, right? Including Fleebagging.

reply to post by Daughter2

That's a pretty good response, except it has nothing to do with Wisconsin. How is selling utilities that are used for state run buildings the same as selling a city's parking meters? The utilities being sold are not competing directly with the utilities the people of Wisconsin use, and therefore should have no impact on the cost of their utilities. It could have an indirect impact if Wisconsin is unable to negotiate a contract for less than it is currently costing by raising taxes to pay(much like public union collective bargaining can result in raised taxes to pay inflated compensation packages).
For the record, I was opposed to Chicago selling parking meters(also most other things Chicago) and I am against Wisconsin selling their utilities(mainly because it could end up costing the people more, not less). I am also against most Republicans and most Democrats.

reply to post by works4dhs


But the republicans are using shady tactics and out and out lies to hurt these people (lying saying they will get tax payers money, just flat out untrue) I think these dems are just the first in a long line of patriots actually DOING something.

They are doing more now than they were in their homestate acting in the government.

reply to post by nenothtu

Yeah, those who don't run squealing away from their duties to Illinois.

For the last time, their duties are not to sit in a chair and vote! Their duties are to stand up for the rights of the people! You demonize the nost noble act. They had no choice but to leave if they had any chance of a real democratic process. You want them to come back so the Reps could push it through using shady tactics just like they did in the assembly?

reply to post by captaintyinknots


Exactly correct. At this time, the Wisconsin governor is guilty of conspiracy to commit kidnapping. He should be charged and prosecuted.

Originally posted by Daughter2
Who will they be competing against?....no one...it's called a sole source contract or a monopoly.
It's the same market system now but with less control.

Bingo! This is the ruse played out on the American voter for 3 decades now.

A business takes over govt services w/o competition, bills either govt (tax dollars) or taxpayer (fee/surcharge),

No/lower taxes=fees/surcharges to pay for services (ex when school districts privatized busing to lower taxes, parents were sent bills directly to pay for busing) No/lower taxes does not necessarily mean more money in the taxpayer's wallet; it just might mean the bills come from business not govt.

Less govt/govt control = less oversight
Less regulation=less oversight
Less oversight means citizens be damned!

In a world growing increasingly more complex (ex financial business, technology, globalization, energy/pollution), one would think more oversight would be needed to make sure citizens are physically safe and dealt with fairly, not taken advantage of. But increased oversight is too often unwelcome by the providers of goods/services to citizens. Or the govt oversight has been either corrupted or shrunk to being meaningless.

I love capitalism, but this country focuses more on balanced nutrition for dogs than a just balance between citizens (govt) and business.

Originally posted by PplVSNWO
reply to post by Daughter2

 

That's a pretty good response, except it has nothing to do with Wisconsin. How is selling utilities that are used for state run buildings the same as selling a city's parking meters? The utilities being sold are not competing directly with the utilities the people of Wisconsin use, and therefore should have no impact on the cost of their utilities.

Ahhhhhhhhhhhh, the old "It Won't Happen Here".

They're just going to sell "one little part" and STOP there.