Wisconsin Senate passes resolution calling for Democrats to be taken into police custody

reply to post by howmuch4another


Then call it a conditional filibuster, I dont care it has the SAME PURPOSE. See past the minushka. Did you see how fast the Republicas passed the vote in the Assembly? 28 assemblyment couldn't even press their buzzers that quickly! The same thing would happen in the Senate and the democrats were basically forced to leave to avoid a coup of workers rights! This is class warfare, can't you see that?!

reply to post by MindSpin


Think you missed my edit there Hot rod?

reply to post by Golf66


hey did you double check that info ? And when were those provisions added?

The point is mute however as the Senators are protesting what they believe , as elected and paid professionals in this area, is a break down of the Democratic process.

If threats and the sending of force to drag protesters (even be they Senators) back into the rotunda simply to satisfy a quorum so that a bill that BROOKED NO NEGOTIATION UNDER ANY TERMS WHAT SO EVER can be pushed through against noticeable public and professional concern is not a subject for some concern then no matter what your political bend it is very hard to consider you either fully informed or, at worst, completely rational on the subject

You did know that the Madison Mayor, the city and capitol police departments and county Sheriff department ALL strongly disagree with the actions taken by Walker and find this police action against the senators, not to mention most of the other things the Walker group are doing, is (are) are flatly unconstitutional for Wisconsin state?

"...the prominent law firm of Cullen, Weston, Pines quickly reminded the public that "the Wisconsin Constitution absolutely prohibits members of the Wisconsin Senate from being arrested for non-criminal offense. The Wisconsin Senate' action today... has no basis in the law of this state. " Further, the firm argued that if the orders of the republican legislators were carried out, they themselves could be subject to a contempt ruling under Wisconsin statute which protects public officials from just this type of chicanery.

Late in the afternoon, the head of the Wisconsin Professional Police Association, James Palmer, pleaded for sanity in the State Capitol: "The thought of using law enforcement officers to exercise force in order to achieve a political objective is insanely wrong and Wisconsin sorely needs reasonable solutions and not potentially dangerous political theatrics...”

reply to post by sonofliberty1776


Yeah so lets keep throwing all our money at the rich to make "jobs" for us? Thats called willing servitude and being a slave to money. Anyone who does not understand that might as well be part of the sheeple

Originally posted by Whereweheaded
reply to post by Daughter2

 

THIS IS THE ULTIMATE BIG GOVERNMENT. LETTING ONE POLITICIAN TAKE USE PHYSICAL FORCE ON THE MINORITY!!!

The last I heard, the State of Wi has 33 reps, 19 being Republicans. Do you even have an understanding of what you wish to decry? Your comments appear to be uneducated, as if you are unable to conjure up a constructive thought, rather than repeat what you heard on CNN!

Uhhh.....WTF are you talking about?

His comments might appear to be "uneducated" to you, but that is becuase you are ...[snip]...I'll edit myself before the mods do.

YOU ARE WRONG....uneducated yourself or lieing...you choose.

Lets start with the Wisconsin assembly homepage.

Republicans - 60
Democrats - 38
Independents - 1
legis.wisconsin.gov...

The Wisconsin Senate

MEMBERSHIP
Republicans - 19
Democrats - 14
legis.wisconsin.gov...

Can we PLEASE start banning members who outright make crap up?...

Edit: So you go back and edit your post (complete with calling the other poster uneducated) removing the idiotic part where you claim that the GOP is the minority, not the Dems in WI? But leave the rest of the post..??? What is the point of the rest of your failed post? 19 GOP From a 33 total leaves 14 Dems...Minority...geez, what trash gets posted here.

reply to post by maybereal11

MEMBERSHIP Republicans - 19 Democrats - 14

Your quote...


My quote below:

The last I heard, the State of Wi has 33 reps, 19 being Republicans

Same numbers there Trigger. Think you need to stop trying to play key board commando?

Further, my response was directed to ( post by Daughter2 )

I think you need to heed your own words, and do us all a favor and ban yourself for solidifying your ignorance.

reply to post by howmuch4another

Nice misrepresentation of the Roberts Rule. The rule was created to prohibit a vote form being called when all constituents are not represented. They are able to represent their constituents they are just being babies because they know they will lose the vote. Elections have consequences.

In six months when they strip all workers rights away and people can't afford to drive to work or feed their families and want to get a raise you'll be the guy saying: "Well it's in the law that they can't bargin for wage and benefits increases so it's to bad". "Legal" is not a precise measurment, It once was not only legal but encouraged to turn in any Jews you knew. The belt of Legality just gets tighter and tighter and you better realize it soon that we will have a Fascist government. Thats what the Millitarry Industrial Complex creates

Originally posted by Silverlok
reply to post by Golf66

 

You did know that the Madison Mayor, the city and capitol police departments and county Sheriff department ALL strongly disagree with the actions taken by Walker and find this police action against the senators, not to mention most of the other things the Walker group are doing, is (are) are flatly unconstitutional for Wisconsin state?

"...the prominent law firm of Cullen, Weston, Pines quickly reminded the public that "the Wisconsin Constitution absolutely prohibits members of the Wisconsin Senate from being arrested for non-criminal offense. The Wisconsin Senate' action today... has no basis in the law of this state. " Further, the firm argued that if the orders of the republican legislators were carried out, they themselves could be subject to a contempt ruling under Wisconsin statute which protects public officials from just this type of chicanery.

Late in the afternoon, the head of the Wisconsin Professional Police Association, James Palmer, pleaded for sanity in the State Capitol: "The thought of using law enforcement officers to exercise force in order to achieve a political objective is insanely wrong and Wisconsin sorely needs reasonable solutions and not potentially dangerous political theatrics...”

The will or concurrence of the police especially that of a political action group "the PPA" is completely irrelevant to the question at hand. I will again direct you to the summary of the brief filed. Also, the law firm of whatever and dorkowitz has no standing to make a decision on anything; however, the Circuit Court does and looks like they did...see below.

The Senate, and Only the Senate, May Act to Enforce the Duty of Attendance: Article IV, § 8 provides that "each house may determine the rules of its own proceedings, [and] punish for contempt and disorderly behavior." On Wednesday, March 2, the Circuit Court of Oconto County found that Senator Holperin violated his plain and positive duty to attend Senate Sessions, as provided in Senate Rule 16, but then held that the Senate, and only the Senate, had the right and obligation to enforce the rule of attendance.

It is Senate's rules and their duty to enforce them. Can they use the police or any other LEO to enforce their rules is the question at hand and it is for the courts to decide IMO since there are no "senate police"; however, if there is a rule that allows the Capitol Police (or the equivalent), should any exist like for the US Senate could be used by the Sergeant at Arms to enforce a quorum is unknown to me but it certainly is to the Sergeant at Arms.

If this happened in the US House the Capital Police can effectively be used to round up the members for a quorum by force if necessary. The only thing that’s saving the democrats in this instance is that they left the state. The US Senators or Representatives would have to leave the Country to do the same thing.

Citing Article IV, §8, the court held " it is the State Senate that must enforce its own rules, if it chooses to do so." Barthel v. Holperin, Case No. 11CV100 (Order, March 2, 2011). All 14 absent Senators are subject to the same Court holding. The Senate has clear legal authority to act to compel the return of its members. The Circuit Court explicitly stated, "‘Each house may determine the rules of its own proceedings...', and may punish for contempt."

The above case law says that the Senate can do exactly what they are doing! This is the role of the three branches to balance each other - if the Executive and the Legislative Branches (or portions thereof) get into a pissing contest the court decides the course of action. In this case looks like it sucks to be an AWOL Senator from Wisconsin.

reply to post by Whereweheaded

Whats funny, in the video Michael " Dumbass " Moore didn't bother to mention when he brought up taxing the rich, that the top 2% of the richest folks in the US pay more in taxes than the rest of the middle class combined.

Hello.......That's easy when they have 40% of the wealth. That stat should go to show you how bad the problem is! Yes they have the highest "Tax Percentage", but do you know how much of their wealth goes tax free?

Well its right around zero for me and most likely you too. Maybe that light will come on someday for you

Originally posted by Whereweheaded
reply to post by maybereal11

 

MEMBERSHIP Republicans - 19 Democrats - 14

Your quote...


My quote below:

The last I heard, the State of Wi has 33 reps, 19 being Republicans

Same numbers there Trigger. Think you need to stop trying to play key board commando?

Oh I saw what you wrote ...as did other posters... you called the poster "Uneducated" and said that the Democrats in Wisconsin were in the Majority...and that the poster should stop watching CNN.

Of course that was before the following...Get your Sh&*^ straight before deriding other members for knowing how to count.

edit on 4-3-2011 by Whereweheaded because: (no reason given)
edit on 4-3-2011 by Whereweheaded because: (no reason given)
edit lol:
edit on 4-3-2011 by Whereweheaded because: (no reason given)
edit on 4-3-2011 by Whereweheaded because: because i cant count
edit on 4-3-2011 by Whereweheaded because: (no reason given)

reply to post by Skerrako

That's easy when they have 40% of the wealth. That stat should go to show you how bad the problem is!

Thats a problem when the top 1% of the richest people pay more in taxes than the rest of us? And that's a problem? Explain your logic behind that riddle?

Originally posted by Janky Red

Originally posted by johnny2127
om/forum/thread669554/pg1#pid10703461]post by MindSpin[/url]

 

Whats amusing and sad is that people like you so easily flip sides. If Republicans had all fled Washington DC to prevent a vote on the Healthcare bill last year, people like you would have flipped out saying they were breaking the law and obstructing govt. But because this happens to be about liberals precious unions, people pretend like they are freedom fighters.

Liberals precious unions???

We are fighting for the little guy, you guys fight for the corporation, just like fear campaign against the public option... Save the rich, eat the working man

And you know what???

I would have rather had Recorpropulicans take off than lie their stinking faces into oblivion like they did.

Actually I am fighting for the taxpayer. An average teacher in WI makes 80k a year in total compensation for 9 months work, regardless of performance or results. They are no 'the little people'

reply to post by gator1177


He should have dropped the arrogant attitude and actually communicated with Police before trying to push his way in. This reminds me of Rep. Jacksons encounter in the US Capital, where she decided because she is a member of Congress, everyone should know what she looks like on site, and felt no need to wear her identification.

She got all pissed because she was stopped by the Police.

The officeres were doing their job... Which is more than I can say about Wisconsin Democrats.

reply to post by Janky Red


I always find it humerous when people who try to defend indefensible positions resort to personal attacks in an effort to derail the conveersation.

The Democrats represent consituents, not unions. Their constituents are made up of Democrats, Rebpublicans, Indpependants, Tea Party etc etc etc. The district they are from is not 100% union, nor is it 100% democratic.

The representatives are not doing their job at all. They have brought the Government to a standstill and should be held accountible for their lack of action.

If the Democrats would act like adults, return to the Capital, vote no then they can make that a central issue of the elections.

Running, hiding and failing to do your job is grounds to be fired from the private sector, as well as the public sector.


As far as the stupid argument between Republicans, Democrats and big business, where the hell do you people get your info from?

Before making the argument that Republicans are big business, you should take a look at Democrats, how much they are worth, and what business intrests they are involved in.

In the words of Lewis Black:
Whats the difference between a Democrat and a Republican?

A democrat sucks, a republican blows.

Fire em all and start over.

Originally posted by johnny2127
Actually I am fighting for the taxpayer. An average teacher in WI makes 80k a year in total compensation for 9 months work, regardless of performance or results. They are no 'the little people'

46K
teacherportal.com...

Where did you get your number?...please don't give me a Fox link.

....and anyone knows that many teachers don't take summers off if they want to gain certifications or get promotions and advance in pay. My wife was a teacher before we had kids and she worked every day until 8 or 9 pm grading papers etc. and never took a summer off for the 5 years we dated before we married...and she did it for 38k a year.

She has a masters degree in education....why did she go into teaching? If not for summers off or great pay? Cuz she loves children and believes like the song says "they are our future".

The GOP crossed the line when they decided to make TEACHERS pay for a financial crisis created by thier masters.

2012 will be one hell of a reckoning.

I don't really get this thread anymore, and it keeps exploding! How can it be possible that so many Americans think that the LAW is more important than anything else? How can AMERICANS value LEGALISM over LIBERTY?

The Senators want to represent their constituents. They have reason to believe that their constituents do NOT want unions to lose collective bargaining agreements, which are really the core of the value of unions. Without collective bargaining for new contracts, employees are left to renegotiate their contracts on an individual level, and can be easily bamboozled or exploited or tricked by a vast bureaucratic system (the employer, in this case the various institutions of the State). Collective bargaining uses the power of the group to protect the individual. That's sort of the whole point of labour unions.

These Senators know this. If they all agree with each other and vote against the bill, then they will lose very quickly, in the space of a few hours. If they abstain from voting, then they will lose even faster, when the Republicans face no opposition. If they deny the Senate a quorum, then they can delay the passage of the bill and, hopefully, allow public outcry to grow so large that the government is forced to play its hand and hopefully will lose. That is the strategy to protect labour rights. It is a good strategy.

But it's illegal, oh god no! Nobody ever has the right to break the law, even if it protects rights! I mean, remember those Boston tea party ruffians?! What about that terrorist, Washington!? They defied the King's law and look at what happened! Anarchy!! Anarchy and communism!!!

It seems to me that many opponents of this action in this thread are just upset that the Republicans didn't do it first (they have done it too, but people have very little knowledge of history and tend to think that everything is new). Their arguments go like this: "It is wrong for the Democrats to deny the Republicans this victory. The Republicans did not deny the Democrats their HEALTHCARE victory! They didn't do this, and now we suffer under socialism..." the implied final premise of the argument is that the Republicans made a tactical error in not screwing up the WORST LAW EVER, healthcare reform.

Then there is this ridiculous argument that the Senators' job is to sit in the capitol and do nothing. Oh yes, that is a good strategy. That certainly gives their working-class constituents what they want. Sit in the capitol and let us strip your rights away ASAP! You are obstructing the swift justice of the unionbusters, and it cannot be tolerated! But, we must remember; elected officials have a job to do, and that job is to follow the rules of the Senate, even if it means that they abandon the interests of those who elected them. It's the mentality of a rapist. "It'll be ok, just don't fight back. Accept it. Good girl."

Then there are those who think that somehow, by breaking the unions, their own lives will be improved. This faulty line of reasoning seems to work like this;
A) I am a taxpayer
B) the TV says that unions hate taxpayers
C) therefore if the unions go away, my life will be improved!!
Nevermind that union members are taxpayers, that unions themselves pay taxes, and that the best-paid members of the middle and lower classes tend to be union members or at least benefit from the presence of the labour movement, which fights to restrict excessive employer powers. Somehow these people think that destroying the labour movement will directly benefit them and that it will mean an immediate and substantial decrease in their own share of taxes. It will. It will take away their wages, so there's nothing left to give the taxman!

I know that nothing that I have said in this post is new or groundbreaking and none of it will be heeded. I just felt the need to express my disgust at the supporters of this bill, who seem to support it entirely because it is backed by Republicans. They find their justifications for why it is good after the fact. They first see that it is GOP and "G-O-P is good-for-me!" They then scrabble around the intellectual dirt to find some means of legitimizing it. In reality, they are little better than football hooligans cheering on the team that they were born and bred to love more than liberty itself, and jeering the team that they have been trained to hate with every ounce of willpower that they can muster.

The positive response to this unionbusting action is disgusting and mechanical and altogether inhuman. This distinguishes it from most other GOP hot button issues that I have encountered, which seem to have at least some semblance of intellect backing them up. The partisanship on ATS is really vile these days.

edit: this is not a personal attack on anyone! It is an attack on a general attitude and it isn't limited to the GOP, but good god they are excellent exemplars of this trend.

reply to post by maybereal11


Replace teachers with Union, and you nailed it on the head. I wonder why all the Union bosses went bonkers when the FEderal Government toyed with the idea of going to a secret balloit for Unions. Collective coronoary aside, uniuon bosses were able to derail the legislation.

How about Unions using member dues as political campaign donations?

Unions telling their members who they will be backing in the next election cycle.

Congress, both in States as well as Federal, are responsible for the day to day operations of the State / Country. The mess in Wisonsin has absolutely nothing to do with REpublicans or Democrats or Independants.

It has to do with the lazy apathetic people of that State who failed to hold their elected officals accountible by voting.

reply to post by SmedleyBurlap


Their constituents are not Unions, nor are they 100% Democrat. They represent ALL of the people who live in their district, including Democrats, Republicans, Indpependants, Tea Party, Communist, Socialist etc etc etc.

They are not representing their consituents, but the Unions. The Democrats got slammed in the last election cycle, and right now the only safe platform is representing Unions, passing themselves off as a the saviour of the working class, which is anything but the truth.

They need to come back to Wisconsin, vote NO, and defend their position and sell it to the people. Absent that, its nothing more than the 5 years olds being pissed they did not get their way, packing up their marbles, and going home.

Originally posted by SmedleyBurlap
I don't really get this thread anymore, and it keeps exploding! How can it be possible that so many Americans think that the LAW is more important than anything else? How can AMERICANS value LEGALISM over LIBERTY?

You are confused...THE LAW IS THE LAW IS THE LAW...when it favors the GOP...

When it doesn't...you scream at the top of your lungs and try to repeal it...like Healthcare Reform or the civil rights act or the United States Constitution.

reply to post by SmedleyBurlap

But it's illegal, oh god no! Nobody ever has the right to break the law, even if it protects rights! I mean, remember those Boston tea party ruffians?! What about that terrorist, Washington!? They defied the King's law and look at what happened! Anarchy!! Anarchy and communism!!!

Spot on. Reposting *pat on the back*