Exclusive: Non-partisan 'US Uncut' group demands corporations pay taxes

reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler

Small businesses who don't turn much of a profit, pay no real tax and THAT'S OK, they really MADE NO MONEY, large corporations who are posting HUGE and RECORD PROFITS though are using LOOPHOLES to not pay taxes and THAT'S NOT OK.

You and I and I think Son's of Liberty are all on the same page. I think we would all like to see the Multi-nationals ripped apart as they should have been years ago.

Unfortunately as I already stated, if the people demand the loop hole be plugged, only the small businesses will get nailed and the large corporations will STILL squirm out of paying their fair share of the tax burden.

The whole food safety fiasco illustrates the point.

The Ag cartel added the Agreement on Ag to the 1995 World Trade Organization ratification. The International HACCP Alliance was formed in 1994 and the USDA and FDA tossed our "World's Safest Food " system in 1996 and implemented HACCP. That completely changed our food safety system for the WORSE. Next the media hype whipped up the public to DEMAND Congress legislate "Safer Food" Instead of reinstating government oversight and testing, the new legislation will just regulate independent farmers out of existence starting in 2012.

The TRUE reason for the deterioration of US food Safety.

...when USDA “officials initially described HACCP to the industry in the mid-90’s, the agency made the following enticing promises:

* “Under HACCP, the agency will implement a ‘Hands Off’ role in meat inspection.
* “Under HACCP, the agency will no longer police the industry, but the industry will police itself.
* “Under HACCP, the agency will disband its previous command and control authority.
* “Under HACCP, each plant will write its own HACCP Plan, and the agency cannot tell plants what must be in their HACCP Plans.”

As a result, the plant operator was required to identify potential hazards and the critical points in the process where those hazards could come into play. The plan would then identify procedures that would be used to minimize the hazard risk at those control points. The plant would be responsible for the implementation of the plan.

As a result, the inspector was no longer responsible for what was happening on the plant floor: that was left to company personnel. The new role of the inspector was to make sure that plant personnel were carrying out their duties in a manner consistent with the HACCP plan. In many cases this amounted to making sure that all of the paper work was in the proper order... www.agpolicy.org...

If Congress, despite not one but TWO Congressional investigations, despite the food inspectors Union president telling Congress point blank HACCP was NOT working and the corporations were gaming the system, STILL refuses to scrap HACCP then WHY would I or anyone aware of how Congress works expect them to actually TAX these Corporations that Congress KNOWINGLY ALLOWS to poison American citizens???

Don't believe me Read One E. coli O157:H7 Outbreak I Think I could have Prevented

Testimony. Of. Stanley Painter, Chairman. National Joint Council of Food Inspection Local Unions

reply to post by WeRpeons

...I guess some people will always be in the dark

No we are not willing to throw the baby out with the bath water. As I have already tried to point out, most businesses in the USA are SMALL businesses and they are hanging on by the skin of their teeth.

Practically ALL new jobs created in the USA since that B@$**D Clinton ratified WTO have come from small business.

You REALLY want to do something useful?

HIT the blasted Multinationals with Anti Monopoly laws!!!

Forget trying to plug the loop hole you CAN'T without wiping out the small businesses instead.

reply to post by crimvelvet


First I have to say I am not a tax professional or certified accountant but I do get paid each year by a number of wage earners, and sole proprietors, and small corporations and S corporations to do their taxes because I know and study the codes, and know how to fill out the forms, and get you what ever breaks or refunds there are.

When it comes to the corporations I do taxes for most of them have gross income of less than 10,000,000.00 a year a few officers and a dozen or two employees.

It's very rare after their expenses are honestly reported that they need any loopholes as they usually end up owing no tax or very little tax.

Honestly most small businesses and individuals could easily do their own taxes if they took the time to read the basic material as it pertains to them, but many find it an intimidating process that they turn to accountants and paid tax preparers to do.

Accountants are alot like lawyers and doctors, they love to scare you. Mostly so you don't try to do it yourself.

However the Tax Codes ideally with some honest politicians working for a government the people control instead of the corporations could certainly write some simplified and fair tax plans that wouldn't allow anyone to wiggle out of paying a reasonable amount to the shared upkeep of the reasonable expenses of the nation.

Personally and I really can't stress this enough, I don't think the government needs the money (they can and do print it and borrow it) but becase the real hard currency of the planet is the resources, and the only way you can legally obtain resources is by purchasing them with government issued currency, taxation is just a way to conserve giving out more of those resources than they have too, and keeping productivity performance based.

Why would Chinese Banks and European Banks, and other Asian Banks be loaning our government money it has no way to pay back?

In part to convince us money is real, has some real value, and is attached to something.

I remain convinced that taxation is simply a way to keep people believing they are in debt to the state, that the state is indebt itself and hence can not do more for the people than it does, and to conserve resources, because every dollar they tax from us is one less dollar you can spend on a Hershey Bar.

I don't believe there is any way to make the present system of government and taxation honestly work, but people do love to argue about who will get hurt, and who won't by tweaking it in an attempt to believe in some fashion it could be honest.

Bottom line taxes are about debt to the state, the simple concept that you owe a debt to the state.

The state should be able to earn a profit from all the resources and land it controls, but it doesn't or if it is, it's not being honest about it.

Yet there is a flip side to the coin of the business who goes out of business over taxation, and that's the family that loses it's home due to taxation, or car, or other vital things that they need.

That happens all the time too.

I don't agree under the system that anyone should have to pay taxes, but if people do and some businesses do, then all people and all businesses should.

Yeah it's a handicap playing by the rules, and I don't personally disrespect the Outlaw who doesn't, what I disrespect is the people with the money and clout to get rules made that specifically and only favor them.

That's not democracy.

reply to post by sonofliberty1776


Corporate paid taxes should be a part of the cost of what they are selling. That way the price of their goods reflects the actual costs.

By allowing corporations to avoid paying taxes, we are subsidizing the cost of their products, and creating an unfair advantage against small business.

Most of the fed govs role in business, is regulating interstate and international commerce, so most of the cost of the fed gov in that role should be paid by those businesses who participate in international and interstate commerce.

Drug companies should pay the fed cost of regulation to prevent people from being given drugs that do more harm than good, same way as a driver should pay insurance, in case they wreck their car and damage someone else's property.

Under our current system, we are subsidizing the exportation of our jobs.

Big oil should be paying for almost all of our overseas military presence, and the cost reflected in the cost of gasoline. Then we would start to have a legitimate market system once again.

reply to post by crimvelvet


We were taxing corporations and regulating corporations at one time, BUT under the con job of the free market concept, all that was tossed out the door, and our country has been on a down hill skid ever since.

Throw out all the politicians who preach the free market con job, and replace them with politicians willing to follow our constitution.

reply to post by poet1b


It's not every day we agree on something, but the truth is that the argument that taxation just makes it harder for businesses to succeed or thrive is at it's core a false one.

Did the business really fail because of having to pay taxes, or was it poorly managed, had a poor product or service, etc. etc.

Yes the business has to add the cost of taxes to it's prices, but the thing some people are missing, is not every one, buys ever product, from every business.

People who do buy products though usually do when price does not exceed their expectation of value.

As a law abiding citizen (no clouds did not open and strike me dead but I did glance briefly up at the sky) I am like everyone else expected to pay taxes, I am not though expected to buy a Pepsi Cola, a Chevrolet, or a McDonald's Cheeseburger.

I do though smoke, and I pay taxes through the nose to smoke.

Cigarrettes are taxed heavily about 400% of the actual price the Tobacco companies are selling it for, after you pay the multiple state and federal taxes tacked on.

Amazingly none of the Tobocco companies have gone out of business, no matter how much punitive tax is placed on smokers.

Amazingly not to many people quit smoking either.

So if the Tobacco companies had to raise the price a bit more to pay their taxes?

No I wouldn't stop buying them or buying them as often, I would pay like I always do.

Yes it's true 80% of start up small businesses fail in their first two years, it's not because of taxes though, you aren't tax if you don't make a profit.

It's because the business plan, location, product, service, management or market didn't actually make the business as envisioned a succesful or profitible one.

Hey if being in business for yourself was easy we would all have buildings and reality tv shows named after us.

I really do believe that a fiscally responsible and business wise government could fund itself through the wise leasing of resources and property that they control.

But if we have to pay tax, then everyone should pay tax, especially the wealthy multi-national corporations.

reply to post by crimvelvet


I was a small business owner at one time, so I'm well aware of the tax loopholes businesses take. First of all, if you can't set aside enough money to cover your taxes and other business expenses, you're not managing your business correctly. There are a lot of people who start up small businesses that have never taken a class on managing a business. When small business owners start making profits, some think they can start re-investing in their business right away. They start overspending on equipment or remodeling, but don't take into consideration businesses have slow times throughout the year. Sometimes you feast sometime you famine. That old adage "you have to spend money to make money" is correct only to a point. The key is managing your "feast" so you don't die from hunger. It's really simple, it works the same way people budget for there families, except businesses just have more expenses to manage. You can't spend more than what you take in. It's called overspending, it's the reason our government and big businesses are in the mess they're in. Most fiscal responsible millionaires don't drive fancy cars and own fancy houses. Those are the millionaires who don't live lavish life styles and end up going bankrupt.

The reason I got out of my business after 6 years is because there were just too many businesses selling the same service. There's only so much of the pie to go around. I was making profits, but not to tune I was comfortable with. I could have easily spent more than what I took in, but I had a management degree and took enough business classes to realize the pitfalls.

reply to post by WeRpeons


One of the most difficult things when running a small business is what I call growth plateaus.

You start out with 5 employees and 2 years later business has grown and they are being worked to death and you are starting to turn away trade or lose trade because they can’t handle it all.

How many more people do you now need to hire.

Hire one or two too many and people are twiddling their thumbs again and much of your profit is now going into unneeded labor cost.

There were times I have had months, even years when the economy is bad, when employees take home more than I have, even though I am often working longer hours, harder, and taking all the risks.

That’s just the name of the game.

Employees aren’t always they are hoped to be, some will steal and if you don’t catch it or minimize it, it can really throw you for a loop if you are struggling with cash flow and don’t have sufficient reserves.

If you are in the service business all it takes is one ambitious employee who decides to go into business for them selves and steal as many clients as they can.

This usually involves them telling your existing clients some ugly rumor that you are going out of business, broke, being investigated for this or that, do this or that.

If the employee is that client’s favored and normal point of contact with your business often they are believed, and the next thing you now 30% of your clients have jumped ship and the phones aren’t ringing like they are supposed to.

If you sell a product someone else manufactures, a supplier who suddenly goes out of business can’t keep up with demand or changes the quality of their product can do you in.

Some businesses have additional layers of regulatory oversight where all of a sudden an inspection or audit leaves you facing big fines, penalties, or payments you never budgeted for, often over a mistake an employee has made by accident or on purpose and carefully did their best to hide from you.

Those are just a few pitfalls for being in business yourself, all of which can knock you out of the game or make it a game hardly worth playing as you and your name remain on line and on hook 24/7/365 for what you and the business are doing.

It’s not easy being in business for your self, and no matter how well educated or experienced going into it, there is always a learning curve from the unseen and unsuspected that some people rise to the challenge of and some people don’t.

Sure it’s easier if you don’t have to pay some expenses like taxes.

The flip side is some single parents would tell you it’s easier if you don’t have to pay for child care!

Yet you know you have to.

Life would be great if you could walk to work and save having to make car payments, buy gasoline and insurance and parking, but you live to far away, and the bus service doesn’t do it for you, so you have too.

People don’t go around expecting free cars and child care from the government simply because these expenses make living harder.

Now here is yet another flip side, and one I know well, one of the best clients you can have for your business is the Federal Government.

They love to overpay for things, and they love to pay promptly!

Ka-ching!

With what? The tax-payers money.

But what if, corporations had no loop holes, and instead of lobbying the government for tax loop holes, and subsidies, in order to reduce their tax liability and be profitable like they want, they had TO LOBBY GOVERNMENT TO SPEND LESS MONEY!

That’s right; they are always lobbying government to spend more money not less.

Why? Because they make more money off of government spending, and why shouldn’t they because in most cases they aren’t paying any tax.
Yet if they had too, and there was no escape from it, they would be trying to get the government to spend less and using their clout to do that.

That would help us all, if the people who clog up the halls of congress and really have their ears, the corporate lobbyists were working to get them to spend less money so we could all be taxed less.

Sure when you have a singular point of view it’s easy to say, hey make it so when it favors me, but when it’s not all about just you, and you realize you are in a boat with all kinds of other people and interconnected then not only do you see things in a whole new light, but you can do things that are a whole lot smarter.

Many of the multi-nationals that monopolize the corporate landscape are so singular in focus they export jobs and leave entire cities and regions rusting with no hope, their policies make it harder on not just citizens and tax payers but other businesses too, as they tend to think fiscally responsible and community responsible are not compatible things.

They conspire to hold down wages, they conspire to keep the immigration laws unenforced and unchanged so they can in part do that.

They are in many ways a parasitical like entity that like a virus just wants to grow bigger and bigger and take as much as it possibly can from the host body even if it means killing it in the process.

Sometimes Americans support them because they literally have no choice, if you want this product or service because they have monopolized the market and control it for that product or service you seem to have no choice.

Yet you don’t have any choice either when they jump ship on your town and leave you unemployed unable to buy anything.

The corporate culture has destroyed America and they haven’t even had to pay for it.

That really does need to change.

reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler


Those are a couple of very good posts PT.

People always talk about government taxes, but they don't pay nearly enough attention to what I call private sector taxes, interests, transaction fees, penalty fees, insurance, and all these other little cuts the investment industry takes out of our pay check.

Where has most of our nations money disappeared to over the last decade? What are Wall Street bonuses? is the daily double.

The first thing that happened after banking de-regulation is that the company being paid good money to manage my 401k plan, stole a huge chunk out of my 401k plan, and they did that to everyone in the company, and from my understanding, this was a nation wide scam. Under the circumstances, I should have been able to call the authorities, and an investigation into this theft should have been conducted, but there is no government agency to police finance corruption.

The more I look into it, the more obvious it becomes that almost every dollar I pay in income tax is being handed over to the big bankers (these are the people who own the corporations). We can't function economically when every bit of profit made is being turned over to the bankers.

Very few people have any net worth anymore, and the lions share of most people's income is going to interest payments to the banks.

How do we reverse this? How do we get all the money that was fraudulently stolen from people, and return the stolen property?

What nobody seems to understand is the government doesn't tell corporations how much tax to pay. Corporations tell the government what to do. When you control the media and banking system you're in charge of everything. Get used to it.

reply to post by mrnotobc


Maybe you are eager to bend down and grab your ankles when the man says bohica, but not me.

They want you to believe they control everything, but they don't.

The elites don't want you to vote, they don't want you to believe that you can do anything to improve your lot in life, but you can.

Unless of course you prefer grabbing your ankles, which is the way some people roll.