Jared Loughner the alleged Tucson shooter - So many questions - so few answers .

I see that the few people on this forum that have a real active interest in this case have assembled in this thread. Something crossed my mind a couple days ago: this case is might be the easiest assassination/massacre situations for the general public to pull strings at in history, in part because of the proliferation of the internet and in part because of many peculiarities and "things that just don't sit right" about this case. The Virginia Tech shootings caused a buzz in the conspiracy community back in 2007 but interest seemed to die down very quickly (and there are many things about that case that still make me wonder). Every once in a while someone will kick up the dust about Cho and VT, but for the most part everyone's just kinda forgotten and moved on. However, because the target/targets are of such high profile this time around the public will most likely have a more vested interest in the trial and the psychodrama of it all, which therefore presents us with a very unique opportunity to try and stab at chinks in the armor of a conspiracy (if one is present in this situation) while the case is ongoing and fresh. Think about if 9/11 happened today in a world where everybody has the internet and there are exponentially more online communities where people share information than in 2001. I think this might be where we find ourselves with the Tuscon shootings. If there is in fact a conspiracy going on with all of this, we are watching it happen in real-time.

Originally posted by Doomzilla
reply to post by xuenchen

 

Yes I heard this too my friend . Apparently his mother and Giffords attend the same small synagogue ?
I dont know if its true but if it were , id say it looks suspicious very much so .

Do you have any kind of source for this? Even if it's just hearsay from a forum post I am interested in reading it. As Christoph Waltz said in Inglorious Basterds: "Facts can be so misleading, where rumors, true or false, are often revealing."

@filosophia: can you elaborate more on this "blocked confiscation" by Judge Roll? This is the first I've heard of anything like that. I'm really starting to come around to the idea that Giffords may not have been the intended target. More information about the Roll angle would be appreciated.

reply to post by kinda kurious


mossad?

First, thanks so very much for starting this thread. The story has all but disappeared but, as they say, questions remain.

For what it's worth, here's my theory. Jared Lee Loughner does not exist except on Youtube and photoshop. The shootings did not happen. No one died or was injured. It is a complete media fabrication.

Other than the seeming impossibility of pulling off such a hoax, such a theory answers all the questions anyone has about the event. BUT, and here's the nearly impossible part to believe, the PTB were not behind it. People in the white hats created the event to demonstrate in real time how people will believe any story, no matter how unbelievable, if they see it on TV.

Think about it for a minute. What proof do we have that Jared Lee Loughner even exists? Is it not odd that we don't see him in custody? Why are there no identifying marks in the video footage we have seen - no license plates, street signs, store signs..... How could it be that parents lost a 9 year old and the next day appear on Dateline composed and sometimes smiling? Any parents out there think that's possible? What about the 61 year old wounded in the knee in back and who two weeks later attends a rally and gets arrested for threatening someone? Miraculous recovery for a 61 year old. And, sorry, while I guess it is possible to survive a gunshot wound to the head, through the brain and have part of your skull removed in a two hour operation....I FOR ONE AM NOT BUYING IT!!!

The Judge was under death threats. Perhaps he's in protective custody.

And I believe we were meant to investigate this story. If the perpetrators were trying to hide the story, why did they make it so deliberately not credible. Why the crazy mug shots? Why the Youtube account? Why have Giffords subscribe to Loughner's Youtube channel? They clearly left a trail of crumbs....but where is it leading?

reply to post by Doomzilla





What do you make of this image?
Observe the ladys shadow.
Loughners arm has a shadow and his leg has a shadow.
Where is his body shadow?
Is the photo faked?
Is Loughner faked?
How easy/difficult is it for the relevent agencies to create a believable ficticious individual for the purposes of a psychological operation where all the victims are also ficticious?

What I find most interesting about Jared is that he and I shared alot of similarites, yet I know for a fact i'm not a victim of mind crontrol or a highly trained assasin or a patsy.

Live with parents: check
Social Awkwardness: check
Obsessed with lucid dreaming: check
Obsessed with the movie Waking Life: check
Interest in the occult: check
Treid to join the Army and rejected for drugs: check (although i actually got in but was kicked out a year and half in)


But Im not a killer or crazy but if i was then I'd have all these postes dedicated to finding the hidden truth of my actions like there was anything more to them than being just the acts of a deranged mind?

Originally posted by gwynned
First, thanks so very much for starting this thread. The story has all but disappeared but, as they say, questions remain.

For what it's worth, here's my theory. Jared Lee Loughner does not exist except on Youtube and photoshop. The shootings did not happen. No one died or was injured. It is a complete media fabrication.

Other than the seeming impossibility of pulling off such a hoax, such a theory answers all the questions anyone has about the event. BUT, and here's the nearly impossible part to believe, the PTB were not behind it. People in the white hats created the event to demonstrate in real time how people will believe any story, no matter how unbelievable, if they see it on TV.

Think about it for a minute. What proof do we have that Jared Lee Loughner even exists? Is it not odd that we don't see him in custody? Why are there no identifying marks in the video footage we have seen - no license plates, street signs, store signs..... How could it be that parents lost a 9 year old and the next day appear on Dateline composed and sometimes smiling? Any parents out there think that's possible? What about the 61 year old wounded in the knee in back and who two weeks later attends a rally and gets arrested for threatening someone? Miraculous recovery for a 61 year old. And, sorry, while I guess it is possible to survive a gunshot wound to the head, through the brain and have part of your skull removed in a two hour operation....I FOR ONE AM NOT BUYING IT!!!

The Judge was under death threats. Perhaps he's in protective custody.

And I believe we were meant to investigate this story. If the perpetrators were trying to hide the story, why did they make it so deliberately not credible. Why the crazy mug shots? Why the Youtube account? Why have Giffords subscribe to Loughner's Youtube channel? They clearly left a trail of crumbs....but where is it leading?

YES, YES. I think it is faked also. If you haven't already seen this, you might be interested.

www.cluesforum.info...

Originally posted by kinda kurious
reply to post by xuenchen

 

To be clear, I offered that article in jest. It is a crock. But rather than tiptoe around making inferences, why not state your case/angle. How did religious beliefs and lack of reporting on it play a part in this cases as you see it?

that's precisely the question i am asking.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

reply to post by theamnesiac


a google for "jared lee loughner jewish" will yield 1000's

as will "Gabrielle Giffords jewish" .....


some links:

www.abovetopsecret.com...


and more links:

www.abovetopsecret.com...


giffords.house.gov...


jewishracism.blogspot.com...


www.texemarrs.com...


www.thejewishweek.com...

Gabrielle Giffords' Jewishness

Thursday, January 13, 2011
Rabbi Joshua Hammerman

Special to the Jewish Week

Q - I am a traditional Jew who subscribes to the traditional definition of Jewish identity (you are Jewish if your mother is Jewish or if you've converted). By this definition, Gabrielle Giffords is not Jewish. But by other definitions, including her own, she is. Given all she has done and what she has gone through, and given the strong possibility that her assailant attacked her in part because of her self-declared Jewish identity, what is the proper ethical response to all this?

A- Rep. Giffords should be embraced by all Jews as one of our own. And I say this as a rabbi who has long disagreed with the Reform Movement's 1983 decision to accept a patrilineal definition of Jewish identity. At the time many feared that it would create an irreversible split among Jews. Rabbi Yitz Greenberg wrote a seminal essay , "Will there be one Jewish People by the year 2000?" Well, it's 2011, and the question has more validity than ever. That split has in fact occurred.

reply to post by gwynned



interesting ideas!

www.abovetopsecret.com...

reply to post by pshea38


I googled the name in your image which I presume is the reporter who wrote the story for the Arizona Star newspaper. ( interesting name which is what caught my eye) Apparently (s)he has his/her own blog and inasmuch as the blog entry seems like nothing more than a litany of oddities about Loughner it does offer a better cropped picture of Loughner. To me, the shadows seem consistent with overhead angle of sun. You might like reading more though. I couldn't understand the purpose of the headline and "laundry list" but perhaps it illustrated your point. For me, Step 1 = Always consider the source.

MOMTA POPAT BLOG

reply to post by gwynned


I agree with every bloody thing you said apart from this .

the PTB were not behind it. People in the white hats created the event

Elaborate please bro , because my theory is that tptb Is behind this because -
They killed The judge , scapegoated/framed someone/jared
Giffords never got shot hence miraculous recovery .
Jareds internet . presence is fake and planted

PLEASE elsborate on that quote specifically .
Thanks man .

reply to post by pshea38


When you pointed out that photo could be fake you freaked me out because you might be right .
I'm of the opinion that everything so far has been faked .
internet presence ,
Giffords shooting
witnesses
i think "jared " has been framed

Originally posted by gwynned
First, thanks so very much for starting this thread. The story has all but disappeared but, as they say, questions remain.

For what it's worth, here's my theory. Jared Lee Loughner does not exist except on Youtube and photoshop. The shootings did not happen. No one died or was injured. It is a complete media fabrication.

Other than the seeming impossibility of pulling off such a hoax, such a theory answers all the questions anyone has about the event. BUT, and here's the nearly impossible part to believe, the PTB were not behind it. People in the white hats created the event to demonstrate in real time how people will believe any story, no matter how unbelievable, if they see it on TV.

Think about it for a minute. What proof do we have that Jared Lee Loughner even exists? Is it not odd that we don't see him in custody? Why are there no identifying marks in the video footage we have seen - no license plates, street signs, store signs..... How could it be that parents lost a 9 year old and the next day appear on Dateline composed and sometimes smiling? Any parents out there think that's possible? What about the 61 year old wounded in the knee in back and who two weeks later attends a rally and gets arrested for threatening someone? Miraculous recovery for a 61 year old. And, sorry, while I guess it is possible to survive a gunshot wound to the head, through the brain and have part of your skull removed in a two hour operation....I FOR ONE AM NOT BUYING IT!!!

The Judge was under death threats. Perhaps he's in protective custody.

And I believe we were meant to investigate this story. If the perpetrators were trying to hide the story, why did they make it so deliberately not credible. Why the crazy mug shots? Why the Youtube account? Why have Giffords subscribe to Loughner's Youtube channel? They clearly left a trail of crumbs....but where is it leading?

Im going to bed guys, this theory above he may be right you know . Who can prove what he said is wrong? . right now we have Zero proof of Anything they are claiming literally zero .
Peace

PS FLAG the thread guys so people notice it .This an open discussion noone is right or wrong , i welcome ALL opinions .

reply to post by xuenchen


One of the threads you link to provides a post where you said:

Originally posted by xuenchen
Xcathdra is correct about "sources"!

does anyone think Mossad was involved?

However almost all of the links by Xcathdran link to articles by Sorcha Faal. That is when I ceased following your trail. I'm striving to grasp your urgency with the Jewish connection and you seem passionate about it but I can't seem to connect your dots. OK Loughner might be considered Jewish since his mother practiced that faith.........then what?

Originally posted by xuenchen

Originally posted by kinda kurious
reply to post by xuenchen

 

To be clear, I offered that article in jest. It is a crock. But rather than tiptoe around making inferences, why not state your case/angle. How did religious beliefs and lack of reporting on it play a part in this cases as you see it?

that's precisely the question i am asking.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

and it now ties in with the post by gwynned www.abovetopsecret.com...

TPTB governments have a long history of creating "History" for odd purposes.

they use ethnicity and religious backgrounds as bait and switch.

ethnicity is "provable" with dna .... religion is all by "self proclamation" and many times used for group identity and sometimes actually used by people as a good standard of living.

one group or another is always being persecuted by somebody else.

Feb 24th is an anniversary day of one such event in history:

www.abovetopsecret.com...

what was that Roman emperor's agenda?

perhaps a similar reason as a "faked" shooting spree?

reply to post by xuenchen


OK, I can follow that line of thinking now. See where you are going. Thanks.

I'm pretty sure Loughner is mentally ill in an organic sense (i.e., not something you can just "think your way out of.") The vibe of true crazy bakes off his writing in waves like heat off tarmac. I don't think we are going to get very far speculating about why he did this or that, nor do I think he's a "Manchurian candidate," part of a larger conspiracy, poltically motivated, or anything else other than a violently mentally ill individual. I understand why people speculate about stuff like that: This is ATS, it is speculative by nature, its important to turn over every rock and examine every angle. Still, at the end of the day, I'm thinking it's less and less likely that he's anything other than what he appears to be.

Even so, I appreciate the OP starting this thread and I'm going to be paying attention to his case as it unfolds in the coming months and (probably) years. Loughner may be forgotten eventually and chalked up as just another minor-league nutball assassin, but he will always be of interest to me due to his role and presence on my beloved ATS.

Originally posted by Doomzilla
reply to post by gwynned

 

I agree with every bloody thing you said apart from this .

the PTB were not behind it. People in the white hats created the event

Elaborate please bro , because my theory is that tptb Is behind this because -
They killed The judge , scapegoated/framed someone/jared
Giffords never got shot hence miraculous recovery .
Jareds internet . presence is fake and planted

PLEASE elsborate on that quote specifically .
Thanks man .

Well, if you agree with everything I said except the part about the white hats, then you would agree that the Judge never died and Jared only exists in the virtual world. That said, I have no proof that the white hats are behind it except that the operation is not typical of the dark side. It's too funny, frankly.

Originally posted by kinda kurious
reply to post by xuenchen

 

OK, I can follow that line of thinking now. See where you are going. Thanks.

Yes Yes

My first post was designed to point in the direction of the whole Arizona shooting spree being a Hollywood production. www.abovetopsecret.com...


I wanted someone else to "bring it into the light" before I suggested it outright!

Your post: was what got the others thinking out loud! and it went from there until gwynned broke through the ice!

Better than ya thought I'll bet.

Originally posted by kinda kurious
I feel that is reasonable to have questions and scrutinize this whole incident however I think the suppression of information on the alleged shooter is a normal and understandable part of the legal process. So many cases have been won or lost in the court of public opinion before the trial ever begins (I could cite numerous examples) and I firmly believe the prosecution is just following all the rules in order to present an air tight case. Unlike CSI, Perry Mason. Law and Order and other fictionalized TV shows, forensics and law can be quite dull and non-glamorous

Sure it makes for compelling conspiracy discussion and I often question "the official story" on many topics but in this case it could either be another Oswald (then I'd be skeptical) or another Timothy McVeigh. There is purportedly clear surveillance video that shows Loughner commiting the crime and unless it is suppressed (like the Pentagon footage) I tend to believe that is compelling evidence.

Regarding the nature of injuries of Congresswoman Giffords there have been numerous credible visitors to see her who can attest to the severity of her injuries. (OK serious opinion aside now)

Besides, Obama healed her:

Did Obama's visit heal Gabrielle Giffords?

UNINTENTIONALLY HILARIOUS WAPO OP ED

edit on 24-2-2011 by kinda kurious because: (no reason given)

I hope Doomzilla is happy with the theories! ... STARS & Flag
and many STARS for your posting responders!

First......its Tucson, lol not Tuscan as in Italian

....I cant believe you guys are actually suggesting that this never happened...

How insulting to the people whose family members died or were injured....

Im never suprised how far delusion goes with some people......I mean seriously, you guys are saying that the pic above is fake because he doesnt have a body shadow.......lol seriously? You can see it right there, not to mention that shadows move with the time of the day and position of the sun.........come on people.....

I had friends that had family members that were there, thank god none of them were hurt...

reminds me of the "9/11 didnt happen it was all made up and videos were faked"..........yeah, except for the thousands upon thousands that witnessed the event......

Come on........