Discordianism - A Weapon Against the Elite/NWO

A beautifully written explanation of how it is. We have all been devided into races, colours, social status etc etc as you say but we all forget we are of the same species and should stand together for the good of all whilst respecting one anothers devine differences.

However, as humans we don't believe everything is possible or that we are capable of bringing about a new world with a shared agenda and we have been conditions so.

Will we ever stand together as one? I don't know, though I like to think that it will happen one day.

In the mean time I have to be patient knowing that " When the Student is Ready - The Teacher Will Arrive."

God Bless and Thankyou!

Bravo OP,

Brilliant read for my Friday night in!

I'm going to 'mull over' that post in my head for time to come...
Thanks for sharing some of your beautiful mind throughout this thread, Great presentation!

S&F and again Cheers

reply to post by Rhebefree

Wow!! I know its already been said but man this is an amazing thread, one of the best ops Ive read since joining ATS, if I could flag this thread a thousand times over I would because everybody everywhere needs to read this!!
I hope you dont mind but Ive saved your post to my computer, not to use as something of my own creation you understand, but because its so inspiring.... Ive been going through my own kind of awakening to concepts you have touched upon but have found it hard putting into words, so thankyou

Of course you can save it... do what you want

I have an online web page also that was created as a back up.

sites.google.com...

Thank you so much for your kind words!

reply to post by kroms33



I use the apple
as a symbol to tackle
those who keep us shackled
by illusions so fragile




Peace bro .

reply to post by kroms33

Stop? What about my house payment? My car? Food? Money? STOP. When I raise my fist to the air and shout, “HAIL ERIS, ALL HAIL DISCORDIA!” I am not giving my reverence to a goddess – but rather to my fellow brothers and sisters who are suffering under an illusion of false rule...

Racism – illusion, created by the Elite: control is easily enforced on a population split on issues.
Politics – illusion, created by the Elite: control is easily enforced on a population split on issues.
Religion – Again, read Malaclypse the Younger's words above. It can have the same influence as Racism and Politics, but yet – I will not diminish anyone’s belief system because I respect everyone’s beliefs in their deity or non-deity. His words do not dismiss religion into the spectrum of illusion, but rather supports their reality because of them being beyond reality (make sense?). Religion is either true, or not true.

War – illusion, created by the Elite: Hey, they need to have some fun every once in a while right? Yeah, that and they need to make money, you know – that illusion created from an earthly resource. Think about this in the case for war: Poor people from one country go fight the poor from another country all because of some illusion to a resource.

Money – Illusion, created by the Elite: Some special people have lots of it, most of us don't... it's based off of a sparkly yellow rock... what more evidence does anyone need? Wait... I thought we were special too? Hmmm. Anyone seeing the picture yet?

Well done, and using two of my favorite books too. Discordianism is about doing the unexpected or confusing, sometimes counter-intuitive thing.

They expect us to protest in the streets.They're preparing for civil unrest, even the MSM says so. It takes "Just Say No" to a whole other level. What if the soldiers stopped soldiering? What if everyone stopped paying their bills to the IRS, to their mortgages? What are they going to do? People have beaten foreclosure by the fact that these banks don't have the paper to prove that they own the mortgage.

We're presented a false 2 party system that make anyone who votes complicit in their own slavery. What if instead of voting for the puppet on the left or the puppet on the right everybody just said "NO! We will not participate in this sick, corrupt system any longer." That would send the message that people were trying to send by voting for the puppet on the right in the last election, not that Republicans are great and Democrats suck.

Learn to love and support your fellow man regardless of the false divisions they put in place. There was an eloquent speech by a former soldier and in it he stated plainly that racism was used as a tool of war. Do not fall for the divide and conquer any more (this goes along with the stuff on politics above.

If everybody refused to use an airplane or to submit to any screening, the TSA would get the message real quick.

"Wait. You mean that by doing nothing, or just by stopping what we have been doing we can topple the controllers?"

Yes, that's exactly what I and the OP are saying. At this point I participate in our commerce system as little as possible and my quality of life has improved. Of course there are ways that I have to work within the system, but I minimize those. Part of waking up is realizing that it's a game that we don't have to play, once you get to that point there is a freedom that sets in and you start to see other ways you can remove yourself from the system, or metaphorically and literally, unplug yourself from the matrix.

If TPTB want you to go left, go up. If they want you to say "Yes" say "Shlozzlefrop." If they want you to say "No" see the suggestion for saying "Yes." If they want you to stand up and take arms. Sit on your head and take up noses. If they want you to hate, love. If they want you to play their game, stand up quietly and flip the board upside down. That is the only way we will be free. where you can use their system to subvert the system like Anon. or other creative ways of taking back our power peacefully. They are trying to create Order out of Chaos and yet Chaos was there first. Fnjord.

Hail Eris! Apples for all!

.

Its not about going back to the stone age..its about evolution..
Evolution of human species spiritually. .

Let me ask you one question. .
How many people care about other souls and systems in which we are living ?

You'll be surprised to know that very little. .

Elites controls the masses because most of us have no time to see wot's going around?
Anyway. .choice is yours. .

Yeah. .i agree. When I ws a young boy i ws so puzzled about religions..and people sticking with them blindly..

When I used to told them why do you follow the religion without giving a second thought.?
Evrybody used to scold me..

Now i'm in 20 years old, i don't like any religions due to the fact that they want us to follow bible, geeta, or koran with blind faith. .

And another thing i'v noticed that most of the masses are paralaysed. .they only think about their celebrity idols, they wish to be like them,
they don't want to miss their soaps and serials. .remembers evry minute details of the games like football, cricket, baseball woteva. .
Likes to do shopping, roaming aimlessly. .

But what they don't do is to have a deep thought about themselves. .where are we living..who are we..why we are born here..why only few people rules us?

Because masses don't have time for these fundamental questions..

I'v read on the illuminaties coloumn,
elites rules because as long as masses have bread to eat and circus to entertain they won't cause any problems for the elites. .
And its very much true,
bread means all sorts of fast food and junk foods. .
Circus means entertainments like reality soaps, serials, movies, sports, celebrity culture and etc, etc. .

So, why do masses would care about who is ruling and who are ruled?

But let's keep the spirit high. .i'm not going to follow the masses, doubt about everything, the more you doubt more you'l know the truth. .

Yeah. .i agree. When I ws a young boy i ws so puzzled about religions..and people sticking with them blindly..

When I used to told them why do you follow the religion without giving a second thought.?
Evrybody used to scold me..

Now i'm in 20 years old, i don't like any religions due to the fact that they want us to follow bible, geeta, or koran with blind faith. .

And another thing i'v noticed that most of the masses are paralaysed. .they only think about their celebrity idols, they wish to be like them,
they don't want to miss their soaps and serials. .remembers evry minute details of the games like football, cricket, baseball woteva. .
Likes to do shopping, roaming aimlessly. .

But what they don't do is to have a deep thought about themselves. .where are we living..who are we..why we are born here..why only few people rules us?

Because masses don't have time for these fundamental questions..

I'v read on the illuminaties coloumn,
elites rules because as long as masses have bread to eat and circus to entertain they won't cause any problems for the elites. .
And its very much true,
bread means all sorts of fast food and junk foods. .
Circus means entertainments like reality soaps, serials, movies, sports, celebrity culture and etc, etc. .

So, why do masses would care about who is ruling and who are ruled?

But let's keep the spirit high. .i'm not going to follow the masses, doubt about everything, the more you doubt more you'l know the truth. .

reply to post by nenothtu

It's not all bad. I don't believe in "fear", either, since the way I see it, those two emotional constructs are inextricably linked. Each is nothing more than the other turned inside out.

Ok, I don't want to call you out on anything – but you are making yourself sound like a “Vulcan.”
I mean, what emotions do you have left? Sadness? I mean, you are nearly claiming to be non-human.
Wait – I see, my bad.
You don't 'believe' in these emotions... but yet – you can not deny them. I am sorry, I can not selectively choose to not believe in something that has been proven to exist through researching components of emotion and its elicitors, neural processes, hormones and expression.

When I speak of illusion – I speak of the truth that is veiled behind the elitist mentality.

Yup, I've pretty much given up. That's always subject to change providing that a light pops on at the end of the tunnel at some point. It's not so much dread as I'm just tired. Folks could be so much better off if they learned to work together to build, rather than trying to take and destroy. I've got serious doubts that will occur any time soon. I've grown tired of watching them want something someone else has, and decide the way to go about doing business it to attack and take. I've grown tired of watching them decide their opinion is the only valid way, and thinking they have to force the others to come around to their way of thinking. Spirited debated and the exchange of ideas for consideration is one thing, a healthy thing, but arm twisting and a pop in the yap to gain compliance of thought is quite another.

The reason it does not occur, is because we do not let it. We have always been suppressed by some kind of power, be it money or government – it has always prevented people from working together.
I am not here to tell anyone what to do with the philosophical data presented in this thread. Yes, it is seemingly eye opening to me – and perhaps many more people will read about it and work together to disband the elitists. My main concern is how they remove the elitists from power. No one has to twist anyone's arm to do it – people just have to opt out of their dead system and get on with our own lives.
If everyone opted out of their system and starved them, they wouldn't be able to do anything about it. Sure, they would create false flags such as “Terror Attacks” to try to reunite their system and way of thinking with humanity – they would do anything they could to stop human equality... it is their enemy.

The deal in Greensboro nearly set me off. I don't like unions, not even slightly.

And I do not fault you for that... not in the slightest. What you have to come to terms with is why you do not like unions. Such as, are they a key part of the story behind why the elites have turned their backs to humanity and divided us? I really think you need to come to terms with what you don't like and figure out why you believe the ways you do.

I'm not singling them out, just using them as an example.

Well, wouldn't it be said that unions were formed out of the evil doings of the elite?
You do not know me – but yet you read my words. Hopefully some of the emotion is conveyed within my text. I feel corruption is everywhere, from an office building and it's workers right down to the guy slaving away to help feed his family on a construction site. I worked in an office building as a Network Admin and Telecom Admin for over 6 years. I have witnessed the brutality of corporate America behind the lines as the CEO pulled out a box of Kleenex and put it atop his desk and smirked wickedly at me stating “Another one bites the dust.” I have seen the backstabbing from within and the chess games people play with other people. Now, I don't do that any more, and I see the same evil and corruption that consumes the trade that I am in. People do not care on either side of the spectrum.
I am currently a construction worker, who is in a union. The union is corrupt – yes, and I will not justify the idiotic measures that both sides of the issues take, it is illusion. While unions do fight for workers rights – and it is because of them that certain laws are in place to make sure workers are treated correctly in the work place, one has to wonder what corrupted them in the first place?
Look, it is a political game – both sides share equal amounts of hate and equal amounts of claims and counter claims... it is ridiculous.
Now, I am in the middle of a rock and a hard place – because of the economy that has been created out of the greed of the elite... but yet it is focused not on the greed of the elite, but unions. Currently, I am without work – as are many of my fellow tradesmen, so what now? Who carries the blame, my union? No – the banks.

See, we are all being forced to fight each other here... and I don't think it is right. Why fight at all​? What is always funny to me – is that many of the people who are anti-union are anti-illegal immigration... but yet, when I signed up to become a union member I had to be a citizen of the USA, of which I was born. See the conflict and the illusion?

I have a son as well. I sent him away so that he won't be in the middle of this mess when it hits. Emotions and having to worry about who else I have to look out for are not luxuries that I think I can afford at the moment. I believe it's about to get unbelievably bad, and he has a much better chance of making it where he is. I myself stand a much better chance of making it through if I don't stand in danger of breaking down and losing it over every little thing, and if I have freedom of motion without having to look out for him.

See, I can't send my son away. I don't have any other place to send him. I have to protect him – and until my last gasps for air, I will. I love the little guy so much – I never thought I would be able to love someone so much... this opened my eyes. I saw the world different. I worked harder to attain more stability – but yet my work was still unnoticed. People do not care. My job became my life – and now that I see how meaningless and pointless my contribution towards society is, I wrote this thread.
If people loved each other as I love my son and my wife, with unconditional measure – the world would become such a beautiful place. I have not lost my faith in people – if I had, I never would have posted my beliefs.

People in general are pretty vindictive. They allow things to get so far out of hand as a collective that emotions like "anger" or "fear" take over, then they get that urge to kill, to strike out at what they perceive as their oppressors, to crush rather than avoid or ignore. It's mostly the anger demanding an outlet, independent of rational thought. Conversely, the would be oppressors are generally motivated by a lust for power, which exhibits also as "fear", but fear tempered with hubris rather than honest anger. Before you know it, one "side" or the other strikes out, and it only takes one spark to start a raging brush fire. Whether you're among the "attackers", the "defenders" or just the innocent bystanders makes no difference at all once the conflagration starts.

True. And that is why I stated that people need to stay out of it. Do not become part of the illusion of Order and Disorder by partaking in it – but starve both of them completely. Become Chaos by being completely out of their picture.

I won't be among the attackers, but I won't balk at defending, either. Someone has to look out for the bystanders, since most of them are not emotionally able to look out for themselves. That's why they are bystanders. Common sense tells them they just want to be left alone, but the opposing camps will usually not allow that.

Of course they won't allow it. It is in their programming under the illusions they follow to not leave the innocents out of the fray. I mean think of it!!! More recruits for their minions.
Sure, there is potential for an army of Discordians – minions of us awakened, but yet what harm would we do? Why would we hurt? The only things that would hurt are bankers wallets when they realize the world around them has changed, and the politicians pride since they no longer rule. Sure, they will lash out – false flags and all.

At some point, I think, a critical mass will be reached where those who have reached that realization will have a strong enough majority to make the encroachers or attackers irrelevant, but that time is not yet. Humans as a group are still too fearful. I further believe that there will always be among us those who try to take by force, or convince through force, but at some point they can be made irrelevant, not dangerous enough to really bother with.

If the USA erupts into violence – this will no longer be a safe place for my family and I to reside. I will move and become a refugee. I do have a feeling though, if it does go down – people will be forced to stay here, and forced to take a side. Sick really. We all play right into the illusions they give us. Over a damn rock.

Yes, they all want the same thing - security. That most often manifests as a quest for power or riches. Further, that power seems not to be satisfactory to them unless it's power over others. It seems few are content to just have power over themselves, which, if you think about it, is the only real security there is.

And there you have it my friend – that is what a Discordian is... yet, we are all Discordians – even if we do not have power over ourselves. Dischordianism is beyond Yin and Yang – it focuses philosophically on the basics but yet expands upon the singularity of humanity as a whole and beyond.

I could be wrong here. It could just be simple greed, but again I think greed is based upon the perception that there is something they need to fear. They seem not to realize that all the "stuff" they amass is what will hold them in bondage. They become slaves to it, yet always and ever seek more.

It is greed, yes. It is security yes, but also – it is because they have been divided into different entities so that their humanity – or common wellness is not an aspect. Both sides have worth because both sides are human. The depth of the primary issue all entangles itself in money too... but yet splitting people into groups usually has negative results.
“Hey! That group has more donuts then we do!”
or
“Hey! Why do they get to go to Disneyland and we Don't!!!?!”
Yes... it is just that simple and that childish, but yet we have fallen for it.

I can try to guide them, I can try to teach them, but ultimately the guidance and learning will have to come from within themselves. All I can really do is provide concepts for folks to ponder and consider - most of which will be rejected out of hand. When the ground is fertile, the seed takes root. Otherwise it just withers, and you look to the next season. The planting goes on every season regardless, and what grows, grows as conditions allow. You can water it, you can fertilize, but ultimately it's out of your hands. All you can do is try to foster the right conditions.

I do give humanity hope – I think that if people read what I wrote, it will set in. The information will set in differently for everyone – because we are all different in our thinking. Discordia is out of my hands, and as you can see – there is really no argumentation against it. To me, after digging deep into the meanings of the subject – I can find no flaw in it... Since there is no flaw that I can detect – I must place the flaw in the illusions created by man. The illusions created by man will not allow some people to expand their thoughts to profound meanings that would lay the ground work for a better humanity.

Lets put it this way. This thread was only a small amount of seed sprinkled upon the ground in a small section of earth in my backyard. If the message of what I wrote went viral... who knows.

If the SHTF, the terror from the government will be a sight to behold, but it won't be limited to the government as a source. There are a LOT of scared, angry folks out there who will lash out mindlessly. I expect it will be six weeks, or maybe a little more, before it settles out enough to tell who's who, and actual "sides" crystallize. Even then, there may be more than one side - there are always at least 3. "That" side, "this" side, and those caught in the middle, which BOTH of the other sides OUGHT to be worrying about protecting, but rarely ever do.

That is why what I am saying is the best way to stop it is to just stop. I mean, how would a government attack a people who don't even recognize their authority? If everyone stopped paying taxes, and all of their bills and began doing their own things such as feeding each other and building up society without elites or money or greed... what could they do? Sure, they would try some last ditch effort response to try to portray their power – but that would be in the last breaths of an evil being washed from humanity.

EVERYONE matters. Everyone. Even those who would impose themselves on the rest, even the "elites", even they matter.

Of course they matter. I don't want them dead, not at all. What I want is humanity to prosper together – hand in hand. What I want is that dying child you see on the TV taken care of instead of being used as a photo op. Is it greedy for me to want these things?

I'm free. You're free. We are all free. We are born that way, out of the Kaos if you will. What could be freer than complete lack of both order and disorder? I think Buddhists refer to that as "Nirvana", but Kaos works as well. It has just come to be associated in the popular mind with disorder, for some reason. This freedom can never be taken. we can't even willingly give it up. it just IS, and always will be. It's non-transferrable, because everyone has their own, to the exact same degree - complete freedom.

I am using it in the sense of 3 and 4: The original meaning of the word Chaos... all else are illusion.
–noun
1. a state of utter confusion or disorder; a total lack of organization or order.
2. any confused, disorderly mass: a chaos of meaningless phrases.
3. the infinity of space or formless matter supposed to have preceded the existence of the ordered universe.
4. ( initial capital letter ) the personification of this in any of several ancient Greek myths.
5. Obsolete . a chasm or abyss

Here is the weird thing. After writing it, I had the most pleasant peaceful feeling of euphoria... because I felt love... I feel I am on to something – something completely forgotten. Sure it can purely be psychological – and I can attest that it can all be illusion also, but if it is – it sure is a damn better one then what we have to live under now.

The freedom of what I speak is a bit different then personal freedom. The freedom I speak is from the direct lies that we currently reside under. Illusion is a lie to trick the mind into believing something is real. Everything under the illusion that we live under causes pain to someone else in the world. Why?
I think because humanity hasn't been true to itself. We always have lived under someone else's authority. We have been force fed from birth something that has become part of our nature – and it is evil. I don't want my son to live in this lie, I want him free to grow up knowing I did something to help change the way humanity is towards eachother. The entire planet suffers from the evil lies that kill, wound and let people starve... there is no need for it.

You and I write online books do we not? LOL

reply to post by coyotepoet


Thank you for you input! I agree with all you have stated. I only hope humanity can catch on to their game before it is too late.

Peace.

Originally posted by hypersonic02
Yeah. .i agree. When I ws a young boy i ws so puzzled about religions..and people sticking with them blindly..

Yes, too much of one thing usually is perceived as negative... too much order, too much disorder etc.

When I used to told them why do you follow the religion without giving a second thought.?
Evrybody used to scold me..

See, I leave religion up to the viewer because it is their personal belief and goes beyond reality. What I am speaking of is the reality of the illusion we live within. Sure, some religions did have some parts to play - but if you think on a larger perspective, the people involved in their religions were not following what they were being taught or following their faith but following the illusions of what their governments or leaders impressed upon them. So, some religious leaders fell into the illusions of government way back when and decided to meddle with belief to manipulate and control... so, blame the people who did it, not their religions.

Now i'm in 20 years old, i don't like any religions due to the fact that they want us to follow bible, geeta, or koran with blind faith. .

See beyond that. See their message. All of the religious books say the same thing when it all comes down to it: Love your fellow man, woman and child. The Discordian philosophy calls for the same thing because Love is born from Chaos.

And another thing i'v noticed that most of the masses are paralaysed. .they only think about their celebrity idols, they wish to be like them,
they don't want to miss their soaps and serials. .remembers evry minute details of the games like football, cricket, baseball woteva. .
Likes to do shopping, roaming aimlessly. .

Destroy the material wealth and it will all go away. If the only thing that truly matters on Earth is that people love one another - there would be no use for money because we would grow out of our greed and help each other out.
Money would be a thing of the past - and people would elevate people so that not one person is starving, and not one person isn't taken care of.

But what they don't do is to have a deep thought about themselves. .where are we living..who are we..why we are born here..why only few people rules us?

Because that is the way people have been programmed. Look, it's like this... to solve a problem - lets say an equation that would take one computer 50 years to solve would we only use that one computer to do the math or would we use the power of hundreds if not thousands to solve the equation faster?

This is how the elite act - they don't see us as people who can uplift humanity - they see them selves as that singular computer that is trying to solve the equation - while I see us as billions of super computers that have been left on the curb to be thrown away. Most people don't see as I do, or you - because they like the illusion that is represented in the form of entertainment.

Peace.

Originally posted by kroms33

Ok, I don't want to call you out on anything – but you are making yourself sound like a “Vulcan.”
I mean, what emotions do you have left? Sadness? I mean, you are nearly claiming to be non-human.
Wait – I see, my bad.
You don't 'believe' in these emotions... but yet – you can not deny them. I am sorry, I can not selectively choose to not believe in something that has been proven to exist through researching components of emotion and its elicitors, neural processes, hormones and expression.

When I speak of illusion – I speak of the truth that is veiled behind the elitist mentality.

"Belief" was a poor choice of words on my part. I know they exist, that people "feel" them. Perhaps "subscribe" is a better word to convey my meaning. I don't subscribe to them. It's not that they don't exist somewhere within me, I suppress them, and have gotten to be fairly adept at it. I've not yet found a purpose for them, a reason they should be allowed to run rampant. Fear, in one sense of the word, serves a purpose. It aids in survival - lets you know when it's time to GO. Fear in a broader sense, that constantly gnawing sort of fear that drives insecurities which in turn drive all manner of evil - it serves no useful purpose.

No, I'm not any sort of Vulcan. I'd never survive that ponn farr thing they've got going on.

Feelings come and feelings go. It seems preferrable to me to control THEM, rather than allowing them to control YOU.

The reason it does not occur, is because we do not let it. We have always been suppressed by some kind of power, be it money or government – it has always prevented people from working together.

Probably so withing the past few thousand years in "civilized" societies. Money had a beginning at some point, and government did too, so I can quite go all the way to "always". Otherwise, I'm pretty much in agreement.

My main concern is how they remove the elitists from power. No one has to twist anyone's arm to do it – people just have to opt out of their dead system and get on with our own lives.

If everyone opted out of their system and starved them, they wouldn't be able to do anything about it. Sure, they would create false flags such as “Terror Attacks” to try to reunite their system and way of thinking with humanity – they would do anything they could to stop human equality... it is their enemy.

Exactly. You don't worry about how to remove them from power - you worry instead about how to remove power from them. That's done most economically by simply ceasing to give it to them to begin with,

What you have to come to terms with is why you do not like unions. Such as, are they a key part of the story behind why the elites have turned their backs to humanity and divided us? I really think you need to come to terms with what you don't like and figure out why you believe the ways you do.

No, it's nothing as abstract as that. My dislike boils down to personal experience of them. I recall teamster strikes in Ohio in the 70's where the strikers were shooting motorists from overpasses and that sort of thing. I recall UMWA strikes in the Appalachian coalfields in the 70's and 80's that made it dangerous just to leave the house and go to the grocery store. I recall the ambushes, the killings, burning vehicles, stuff getting blown up with dynamite stolen from the very mines they were stiking against, cars being overturned in the roads and set afire. That sort of thing. These were not things I saw on the news, they were things I saw in person.

Every 3 years like clockwork a contract would come up for re-negotiation, and it was on. The first signs were generally the miners starting to weld "jackrocks" out of nails, preparatory to disabling cars in the road for the strikes. They weren't very selective about it, either. They'd seed the roads with those things, and whatever got stopped with a flat tire got gotten. A guy I grew up with there got killed one night, and no one ever found out who did it. A knock on the door in the night, and a 12 gauge shotgun made a mess out of his head, and that was all she wrote. No one ever found out who did it, or why. Another friend got ran off the side of a mountain while driving a coal truck, killed him deader than 4 o'clock. No one ever found out who did that, either. Another time, a fella was going to work at about 6 am, got ambushed. No jackrocks that time, they blocked the road with two vehicles, 5 guys. He shot and killed 3 of them, ran over a fourth, rammed through the roadblock, and went on to work. The guy that survived fingered him, and when the cops went and picked him up at work, they asked him why he left the scene. His answer? He said "I weren't about to miss a day of work over them sumbitches!"

Just a couple examples. There are literally hundreds.

My experience of unions here in the flatlands weren't so drastic. I was a member of SEIU for about 8 months or so, never saw them do a bit of good, but not much harm either beyond collecting dues to do nothing. That appears to have changed now, if the recent events are any indicator, and not just a fluke. Time will tell, I reckon.

It's sort of off-topic, but you seem to have an interest in why I dislike them, so there it is. Same reason I dislike governments - it's just a bunch of folks in both cases trying to force their will by violence on other folks, and in neither case they don't much care who they hurt, as long as they get theirs.

Well, wouldn't it be said that unions were formed out of the evil doings of the elite?

No. They are formed and driven by the same thing that drives the elite - fear, greed, insecurity, or whatever it is. Not a nickel's worth of difference between the two factions that I can tell. If the elite are evil, then so are the unions, and if the unions are evil, then so are the elite. They are the same thing from where I stand.

You do not know me – but yet you read my words. Hopefully some of the emotion is conveyed within my text. I feel corruption is everywhere, from an office building and it's workers right down to the guy slaving away to help feed his family on a construction site. I worked in an office building as a Network Admin and Telecom Admin for over 6 years. I have witnessed the brutality of corporate America behind the lines as the CEO pulled out a box of Kleenex and put it atop his desk and smirked wickedly at me stating “Another one bites the dust.” I have seen the backstabbing from within and the chess games people play with other people. Now, I don't do that any more, and I see the same evil and corruption that consumes the trade that I am in. People do not care on either side of the spectrum.

You're absolutely right. I've seen the same things, though probably not as much of that as you have.

I am currently a construction worker, who is in a union. The union is corrupt – yes, and I will not justify the idiotic measures that both sides of the issues take, it is illusion. While unions do fight for workers rights – and it is because of them that certain laws are in place to make sure workers are treated correctly in the work place, one has to wonder what corrupted them in the first place?

I don't know. I wasn't around for the change, whatever it was, just the aftermath of it. I tend to "individually bargain" rather than collectively bargain. If I think I'm not being treated right, I know the direction to home. They can mistreat someone else, and I've always had the bad attitude that "I was lookin' for a job when I found this one, I can look 'till I find another." Now, that's just me. I don't fault folks for being in unions, and I don't fault them for NOT being in unions. I just take issue with "collective bargaining" when it draws innocent bystanders in and injures them, when they had no dog in that fight. Otherwise, I couldn't care less what they do, or how they do it.

Look, it is a political game – both sides share equal amounts of hate and equal amounts of claims and counter claims... it is ridiculous.

Absolutely. I think both sides ought to draw a finer bead when they're picking targets is all.

Now, I am in the middle of a rock and a hard place – because of the economy that has been created out of the greed of the elite... but yet it is focused not on the greed of the elite, but unions. Currently, I am without work – as are many of my fellow tradesmen, so what now? Who carries the blame, my union? No – the banks.

Probably enough blame to go all the way around, but that's likely a different discussion. I agree that greed is at the root of it - but I think that greed has it's own root somewhere. I've just gotten back to work myself, about 6 months ago. I picked a job that I wouldn't mind tossing, since I didn't intend to stay around here, but it may well be that I'm stuck on stupid at this particular point, since I'm still here.

See, we are all being forced to fight each other here... and I don't think it is right. Why fight at all​? What is always funny to me – is that many of the people who are anti-union are anti-illegal immigration... but yet, when I signed up to become a union member I had to be a citizen of the USA, of which I was born. See the conflict and the illusion?

No, I'm not seeing that one. I've got to demonstrate citizenship for any legal job I take here in the states. I was under the impression that those most against the unions - the corporate types, were PRO illegal immigration, since it provides them a cheap source of exploitable labor.

See, I can't send my son away. I don't have any other place to send him. I have to protect him – and until my last gasps for air, I will. I love the little guy so much – I never thought I would be able to love someone so much... this opened my eyes. I saw the world different.

Yeah, they'll do that to you. When mine was born, it caused me to quit drinking, and flying all over the place to tear stuff up. It caused me to re-evaluate some things, reorganize my priorities, that sort of thing. Just sort of straighten up in general. Mine isn't so little now - he'll soon be grown. I sent him to stay with family, since this ain't no place for kids (not really much of a place for adults, either!) and isn't showing any signs of getting any better. Matter of fact, it gives all indications of getting worse.

I worked harder to attain more stability – but yet my work was still unnoticed. People do not care. My job became my life – and now that I see how meaningless and pointless my contribution towards society is, I wrote this thread.

I went that route of my job being my life as well, but it didn't work out all that well for me. You tend to lose more than you can ever gain that way, and a lot of what you lose can never be replaced.

If people loved each other as I love my son and my wife, with unconditional measure – the world would become such a beautiful place. I have not lost my faith in people – if I had, I never would have posted my beliefs.

Yes, it would. I don't know about faith in people, though. It seems to me that there are two classes of folks - those who love "humanity", but hate people (individually) and those who love people (on an individual level) and hate humanity. There's got to be a better way. I've not got much faith in humanity, but individuals I can relate to. Changing the world, one life at a time, maybe.

True. And that is why I stated that people need to stay out of it. Do not become part of the illusion of Order and Disorder by partaking in it – but starve both of them completely. Become Chaos by being completely out of their picture.

That concept I've not quite got the hang of yet. The only way I can figure to do it is turn my back on society altogether, and go back to living in the woods. I've done it before, so I already know I can, and I'm just a hairs breadth from doing it. I've already got the place to go, and it's just siting there waiting. That way, there's no doubt at all whether I'm completely out of their picture or not.

Of course they won't allow it. It is in their programming under the illusions they follow to not leave the innocents out of the fray. I mean think of it!!! More recruits for their minions.
Sure, there is potential for an army of Discordians – minions of us awakened, but yet what harm would we do? Why would we hurt? The only things that would hurt are bankers wallets when they realize the world around them has changed, and the politicians pride since they no longer rule. Sure, they will lash out – false flags and all.

I'm pretty much against all would be rulers - politicians, bankers, union organizers, and corporate CEOs. There are folks out there who want no part of leading, and they are the very ones that need to be in the positions of "power". They are the ones who won't abuse that power, but the catch 22 is that they want no part of it. What is needed at this point is leaders, not rulers, and they're pretty damned scarce.

If the USA erupts into violence – this will no longer be a safe place for my family and I to reside. I will move and become a refugee. I do have a feeling though, if it does go down – people will be forced to stay here, and forced to take a side. Sick really. We all play right into the illusions they give us. Over a damn rock.

Take charge, make plans. NEVER become a refugee. I've seen more refugees than I care to recall, and every one has a hopelessness about them, a disbelief that they are where they are which leads to a resignation, and they ALWAYS are at the mercy of others. NEVER become a refugee.

You and I write online books do we not? LOL

Yeah, we do. You may not know the half of it in my case.

I'm up against a deadline - have to go pull 12 hours - but I'll try to get to the rest later, if I can even manage to formulate a response.

Some thoughts on "Discordianism".

I think it's important to note that in the "Illuminatus!" novels, Hagbard, the leader of the "Discordians", his non-violent "Demonstration" ultimately fails.

In the end, in order to save the world, Hagbard is forced to intervene and kill all of the Illuminati, even though he initially swore he would never do such a thing.

Is there some sort of hidden lesson there? I don't know.....

Maybe Fulford was channeling some Hagbard too?

I found an interesting quote from the Dalai Lama:

....let us talk about the human being as a social animal. Even if we do not like other people, we have to live together. Natural law is such that even bees and other animals have to live together in cooperation. I am attracted to bees because I like honey--it is really delicious. Their product is something that we cannot produce, very beautiful, isn't it? I exploit them too much, I think. Even these insects have certain responsibilities, they work together very nicely. They have no constitution, they have no law, no police, nothing, but they work together effectively. This is because of nature. Similarly, each part of a flower is not arranged by humans but by nature. The force of nature is something remarkable. We human beings, we have constitutions, we have law, we have a police force, we have religion, we have many things. But in actual practice, I think that we are behind those small insects.

The queen bee is genetically the same as the other bees in the hive, but yet she can mate and produce offspring while the other females can not.

The queens are developed from larvae selected by worker bees and specially fed in order to become sexually mature. There is normally only one adult, mated queen in a hive.

True Democracy? I mean, where is the illusion behind that? Does the selected queen receive payment for becoming fertile? or isn't it rather for the greater good of their hive?
Make no mistake in my words - I am just observing nature, I do not want a hive mentality for humantity.
Bees are born into the following 'castes' : Queen bee · Worker bee · Laying worker bee · Drone
Humans are not born into any type of cast because of nature - but only born into an illusion of caste created by other humans.
Yes, people put these caste systems in place to counter the forces of nature to feed people - but these days, with the technology we possess we see only a select few really inheriting the benefits of such a society.

Lets think about this on a technological scale: (as I have stated in another post in this thread) If the leaders of the world are like CPU's trying to figure out equations why only use one computer to do it when billions of other computers can work on the same problems together?
Sure, there are problems that need to be pushed up further in the task cue, but with billions of people multitasking to solve the equations instead of a select few - wouldn't the solution come much faster?

Instead we have leaders being propped up by the materialistic wealthy who are a very small minority compared to the people who are not wealthy – and those people tell us and direct us how to live and act. To me – that does not compute for a stable environment and it will always eventually fail.

reply to post by cupocoffee

Some thoughts on "Discordianism".

I think it's important to note that in the "Illuminatus!" novels, Hagbard, the leader of the "Discordians", his non-violent "Demonstration" ultimately fails.

In the end, in order to save the world, Hagbard is forced to intervene and kill all of the Illuminati, even though he initially swore he would never do such a thing.

Is there some sort of hidden lesson there? I don't know.....

I think you missed the point - no hidden lesson at all. *whips out copy of The Illuminatus! Trilogy*
Didn't Eris kill off the Illuminati, and wasn't Hagbard part of the Illuminati?

Pages: 729-730

"You're the fifth Illuminatus Primus," said George.
"Right," said Hagbard.
"But you were working against the others. While they were a worldwide conspiracy infiltrating every other organization, you were infiltrating them."
"That's it," Hagbard said. "Every golden apple has its own worm eating away at its core."
"They never were the real Illuminati at all. You're part of the real Illuminati."
"You've got it. You've got it all."

So - see Hagbard was PART of the illusion. Isn't it interesting that one of the key figures (Joe) in the book, figures out he is in a book, and at that point Hagbard states "it is true."

If you look even further into the details of the book, since Hagbard was not a Discordian - who was? Wouldn't it be the character Malaclypse, who started the movement?

Anyhow - remember when Eris grew to 93 feet tall and cried "Kallisti!"?

All of the men who saw the apple in whatever form, began to fight and kill one another for possession. Tanks smashed into on another head-on. Artillerymen lowered the barrels of their guns and fired point-blank into the center of the melee.
"What is it, Wolfgang?" said Winifred imploringly, her arms thrown in a panic around his waist.
"Look into the center of the battle," said Wolfgang grimly. "What do you see?"
"I see the thrown of the world...." etc etc...

The implications of the book are beyond measure, which is why - when you claim that Hagbard killed the Illuminati - it actually wasn't him, nor was it any Discordian that killed them, nor was it the Discordian movement.

Originally posted by kroms33
I think you missed the point - no hidden lesson at all. *whips out copy of The Illuminatus! Trilogy*
Didn't Eris kill off the Illuminati, and wasn't Hagbard part of the Illuminati?

No, and yes/no.

At one point in the book Hagbard bribes off the leader of the Syndicate (Mafia), Drake, to have many of the Illuminati operatives in the US assassinated.

Then at the end, when the Illuminati are chasing all the hippies across the bridge, Hagbard and his people blow the bridge with explosives and finish off the rest of the Illuminati. Eris didn't kill them, Hagbard did.

And yes, Hagbard was the Fifth Illuminatus Primus - but he was also the leader of the Discordians and working against the Illuminati the entire time. Playing double-agent.

The point is, he started out trying to fight the Illuminati using only peaceful resistance and knowledge - but then ends up killing them all himself!

The implications of the book are beyond measure, which is why - when you claim that Hagbard killed the Illuminati - it actually wasn't him, nor was it any Discordian that killed them, nor was it the Discordian movement.

Yes it is Hagbard, and his allies like Dillinger (LOL!!), who kill all the Illuminati. If you don't know this, then you need to go back and read the book again.

How can you understand the full implications and philosophy of the book if you don't have the basic facts straight?

Originally posted by cupocoffee

How can you understand the full implications and philosophy of the book if you don't have the basic facts straight?

Perhaps it speaks to me differently? Look, Hagbard kills the Illuminati physically right? But yet it still exists because Hagbard IS part of the Illuminati. Hagbard claims to be Discordian, but yet acts later on in complete defiance of it's beliefs thus removing himself. Eris throws the golden apple unto the world so that the elite war upon eachother - destroying the structure of what they created - not Hagbard. If you get really deep down into what the meaning of the book is - the Illuminati is only a representation of all of the illusions pressed upon humanity... Hagbard did not destroy that - Eris did (well, she didn't destroy it, she attacked it).

So, when you claim that a Discordian killed the Illuminati - that would be false. What the book is showing is that the Illuminati killed itself from the inside.

And yes, Hagbard was the Fifth Illuminatus Primus - but he was also the leader of the Discordians and working against the Illuminati the entire time. Playing double-agent.

The point is, he started out trying to fight the Illuminati using only peaceful resistance and knowledge - but then ends up killing them all himself!

You don't see the meaning? He was never the leader of the Discordians, but rather trying to counter order with disorder - which is only an illusion imposed on Chaos. He was part of the illusion my friend.
In what I can see from all of this Discordia is also just an illusion - see how wonderful it is?

So when you make claims like the following:

If you don't know this, then you need to go back and read the book again.

How can you understand the full implications and philosophy of the book if you don't have the basic facts straight?

To me it seems that you didn't get the full concept of the book as well, because to me - the basic facts represent themselves do they not?

reply to post by nenothtu

They would be nothing, nothing at all, and likely wouldn't even have a clue as to how to go fishing themselves. If the rest of us are "nothings", "peasants", "peons" in their worldview, their very inability to function at all without us makes them what? Something less than that.

Dependents.

It would be egotistical to say the companies of elites could not survive without us, seeing how easy we adapt without thought or working with their ideals or, over time, infrastructure. They're still human, and in that commonality can become self-sufficient bright points unto themselves as well. Their wealth and influence already brings them much levity, recognizable morality diminishes into power-plays, and only their system stands vulnerable. The House of Commons and the House of Lords existed in Britain for many long generations, feudalism and oligarchies can bring human co-existence despite their miseries, and a sense of enlightenment or a library of worth can be undervalued or exploited. We may see from the backs of giants, but if we are not they, we still need to grow, and fast!

Neither dependents.

reply to post by kroms33


Okay, it's important to understand that there are two different "Illuminati" groups in the book.

One group is the "Evil" faction, the ones who want to kill everyone and become immortal. Hagbard is part of that group, he is the Fifth Illuminatus Primus, but he is actually a Mole and working against them the whole time.

Then there is an even higher and more powerful order of "Illuminati" which Hagbard is also a member of, who are essentially "Good".

Since the term "Illuminati" has become so thoroughly associated with the "Evil" faction, even though the term means "the enlightened ones", it's better to call the "Good" Illuminati something else instead. So in the book the "Good" Illuminati simply start calling themselves the A*A*.

Hagbard starts out as a lower level member of the A*A*. The A*A* have a strict philosophy of NON-intervention in human affairs. They teach Hagbard that it is impossible to get involved in human politics without eventually resorting to violence and killing and thus ing up one's own Karma.

Hagbard disagrees with his superiors and starts his "Demonstration". His goal is to show his superiors in the A*A* that he can fight and defeat the Illuminati using non-violent methods.

Eventually his Demonstration fails and in order to save the world, Hagbard is forced to kill all the Illuminati himself.

His superior in the A*A*, the Dealy Lama (LOL!!), then gloats and tells Hagbard, see? We told you so!!

That is the correct plot of the book. That is the philosophy. You cannot get involved in politics without violence and killing, the two go hand in hand.

The parallels with current events are staggering of course

reply to post by cupocoffee

Originally posted by cupocoffee
reply to post by kroms33

 

Okay, it's important to understand that there are two different "Illuminati" groups in the book.

One group is the "Evil" faction, the ones who want to kill everyone and become immortal. Hagbard is part of that group, he is the Fifth Illuminatus Primus, but he is actually a Mole and working against them the whole time.

Then there is an even higher and more powerful order of "Illuminati" which Hagbard is also a member of, who are essentially "Good".

Correct - those "Atlantians" that fled the solar storm or flare were the original Illuminated ones, the 'good ones'.

Hagbard starts out as a lower level member of the A*A*. The A*A* have a strict philosophy of NON-intervention in human affairs. They teach Hagbard that it is impossible to get involved in human politics without eventually resorting to violence and killing and thus

ing up one's own Karma.

Hagbard disagrees with his superiors and starts his "Demonstration". His goal is to show his superiors in the A*A* that he can fight and defeat the Illuminati using non-violent methods.

And as you point out he fails - and does not remain out of order and disorder of which Discordian priciple states to do.

That is the correct plot of the book. That is the philosophy. You cannot get involved in politics without violence and killing, the two go hand in hand.
The parallels with current events are staggering of course

Ahhh Haaa! See? So, what I am saying is that people need to remove themselves from both the material and the political illusions that surround us and start focusing on what really matters - humanity. I mean, if we really didn't matter, why would we be here? Why would you want to continue on?

And yes, the parallels with current events are very staggering... which is why I wrote what I did. The only way for people to survive being dominated by a select elite minority is to not be a part of their system.