Is ATS Supporting Ignorance Concerning Chemtrails? I think so.

Contrail Science

Operation Cloverleaf:

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/94736fcc94da.jpg[/atsimg]

Chemtrailers: Your time is NOW!

Can we get a mod opinion on this, please and thanks? I know you all are reading through this thread. What's up with the bias on chemtrails?

"Technically" speaking, chemtrails is the wrong terminology for the dispersment of SOME chemicals being released from airplanes or jets into the atmosphere.

www.californiaskywatch.com... (This article does'nt really relate to Alex Jones if you read it)

aircrap.org...

The word chemtrails is not recognised, as a real word by some government adgencies.
Some people come on here to defend the word is not real. Therefore,Chemtrails do not exist.

ATS allows anyone to express their opinions "weather" good,bad, incorrect,right or wrong.

I KNOW they dispearse chemicals into the air at high altitudes.

I KNOW it is NOT for the purpose of cloud seeding.
www.lakescientist.com...
I've talked to these guys. THEY do not know what it is either.

You can beat a dead horse trying to convince non-believers that your getting sprayed. They enjoy arguing for the sake of arguement. They enjoy it.

It's NOT whether UFO's are real and the debate continues without proof. Or a flying saucer in a hanger.(I know, UFO means unidentified flying object,I get it)
But, ATS let's us debate that all day long,so why not "chemtrails?"

Don't let the non-believers get to you. They are either intentionally denying the spraying, or are really THAT ignorant.

Oh, and don't try a speculate WHY they spray with a non-believer. The answer comes up that since they don't exist,you have no reason to speculate they may be due to:
a) block ultraviolet rays.
b) block satellites from seeing ground movement
c) poison us
d) create bouncing ceilings for HAARP.
d) create a reason..I have NO clue.

Don't blame ATS for wrong opinions. Everyone has one.

Oh, and we have'nt been sprayed here in Tahoe in over a week.. I have no reason why. REALLY clear blue up there.
Everyone that lives here KNOWS when we're getting sprayed becuase it goes about 100 miles from Mnt. range to Mnt range. Kinda hard to miss a criss cross pattern that turns blue into milky film for 4 hours.

I know, I know...NOT chemtrails and I have no proof. Not that again.

bariumblues.com... (not good pics or explanation)
www.rense.com... (not good pics or explanation)
stacyyoungphotos.blogspot.com... (some of these are good)

Chemtrails and Aliens flying those UFO's will be denied until each person has his or her own proof they can accept.

Sadly this is the way it is.

I have been observing chemtrails for years. There is absolutely no doubt that they are not a natural result of jet airplane exhaust. How can I say that? Very simple. The planes that lay out the chem lines almost never fly in a pattern consistent with normal air traffic.

All you have to do is pay attention!.

I for one, am always observing air traffic. I live in an area away from the big cities so the amount of air traffic overhead is very predictable. That is, until the chemtrails show up. When they appear there is no logic in the patterns. Almost seems like we have a bunch of pilots out there test driving airplanes with no particular destination in mind.

Another key point in the flight pattern to notice is that any normal jet aircraft will take off with a destination in mind. Once they get to their flight designated altitude they fly directly to their destination in a STRAIGHT LINE. This is not the case with chemtrail flight patterns.

Now, the question of how can the governments of the world involved in this keep the pilots silent? I have no idea but I am not naive enough to believe that they don't have ways to make sure the pilots stay quiet.

In conclusion the main point is that I know this is not normal and that the goals behind chemtrail spraying are not known so it is quite natural for wild theories to evolve.

I do not believe we should live in a world where governments keep secrets from the people they serve. We have the right to demand answers. The more people asking the questions the better.

reply to post by dplum517

NO.... did you not get the point of this thread? If you want those facts go find them on all the other threads and many other sources. This isn't a thread to spoon feed lazy people evidence.

This is precisely why "chemtrail" threads tend to end up in "The Grey Area!" They are never about presenting facts, they simply state their opinion and tell people to find their own facts. Here's one I found on my own:

According to Statistics Canada, Canadians' life expectancy is now an average of 80.7 years, compared to 78.4 a decade earlier, and the population balance is changing. In 1996, there were 3.5 million seniors in Canada. By 2021, the number is expected to almost double to 6.9 million.

Montreal Gazette

Why is it that chemtrail believers seldom link to outside sources, and when they do, it's usually to a website that specializes in chemtrails? Perhaps when they can back their hysterical claims with actual research, they can have a forum of their own.

reply to post by 1111111


have you tried to identify these flights using flight aware? You can look up a plane you see in your area to see if it's a recorded flight. If it's a top secret spraying operation, it will not be listed most likely.

When they spray you, how does it affect your health? What about your neighbors?

reply to post by 1111111


Before continuing, you really should research airline navigation. They do not fly from A to B in a straight line. They use designated corridors, which is why contrails tend to stack up. Like you do in your car on an Interstate highway.
If you don't understand how planes are navigated, you won't understand what you are seeing over your head. You can be out in the middle of no where, not an airport for hours of ground travel and be crossed many time, in many different directions every single day.
You can find out what the commercial flights over your head are in several ways. In near-realtime at
Flight Aware

Or you can go on GoogleEarth and use their US Air Routes app. I did that for a similar argument on YouTube.

reply to post by GoldenFleece


what do you think about the stuff Don Croft states on that site? is that what you would consider to be facts about chemtrails?

That stuff is all verifiable. Meaning it can be proven or dis proven very easily.

Of course "chemtrails" is highly speculative.
The people who believe in them do not understand clouds. They keep insisting that clouds of ice crystals or water droplets and dirty air cannot last more than a few minutes.
As the rest of the world continues to know clouds can stick around for hours and drift for hundreds of miles, the claim that clouds cannot persist is wrong.
It should be telling that the arguments from several years ago for the existence of "chemtrails" remain the same. There is still no good test proving anything like "chem-" is found in any trail, still misidentification of clouds, still go on about a bill that never made it to the floor, still whine about patents........the list goes on and on.
Except for the tweaking, done to counter questions that cannot be answered by them. It has been claimed to contain all kinds of things, started at different times, by different people, for different reasons site to site and person to person. If there was any evidence that would stand up, there would be some kind of consensus about the most basic parts. And there isn't.
The only thing "chemtrailers" seem to agree on is that they can somehow "see" the chemical content of something miles away using only eyesight and camera lens.
If that claim is not "Highly Speculative" I don't know what would qualifiy.

reply to post by GoldenFleece


debunking your picture

you guys are not interested in the truth, you just want your believe systems to be confirmed. so you're mixing up lies with inordinateness and paranoia.

reply to post by dplum517


I think I can clear up your confusion. Just think about this for a second:

chemtrails....
1. will kill you
2. aren't meant to kill you
3. are weather modification
4. will make you sick
5. will not make you sick
6. are chaff
7. are not chaff
8. contain aluminum
9. contain barium
10. are for de-population
11. are the work of the government
12. are done by private contractors
13. come from the jet fuel
14. are sprayed out of secret jets and tanks hidden on planes
15. come from specially modified planes


notice that all of the above are ideas that come from the chemmies. There are more, but I thought that 15 was a good start. Being that nobody in the chemtrail group can agree on what they are, why the are, or who is doing it, makes it a very speculative argument and therefore belongs in Skunk Works until it can be explained in a clear way that any outsider could understand that theory without massive confusion.

reply to post by dplum517


Ok then. If the planes are not commercial what are they? You will probably say military. I will say who is flying them. You will probably say they are flown pilotlessly or by robots. I will say where are the bases from which these planes are being flown. You will say from (insert base). I will say how do the thousand s of gallons of chemicals get to the bases, where are the contracts (you like contracts apparently) to supply these chemicals to the Armed Forces (presumably the USAF).

So go on, make my day. Prove your story or stop babbling rubbish.

We are living longer and in a more healthy manner than ever and you want me to believe that the government is killing us?

"Highly Speculative" is a suitable category for chemtrails as long as the only sustainable proofs chemtrailers usually provide are vids of planes on flight and some links to patents on a good day.

We are all (you would call us "deniers") still waiting for you chemtrail-believers to come up with something (even a reason) to chemtrail.

No, imo ATS is not Supporting Ignorance

reply to post by dplum517


Is ATS Supporting Ignorance Concerning Chemtrails?



NO!


The only IGNORANCE is coming from the charlatans and goofs who write and maintain all of those idiotic websites "devoted" to this nonsense. THEY also promote ignorance by muddying the issue....confusing activities (well-known and easily verified) such as cloud-seeding....which IS A FORM OF WEATHER MODIFICATION!!!! There is no denying it, no argument....such activities are designed to encourage precipitation, by giving Mother Nature a "boost".

Those sorts of projects have nothing at all to do with the high-level cirrus and contrails that are at the crux of this completely insane "belief".....insane and uneducated hysteria that can be cleared up with just the most basic of education, and some logical thinking....instead of resorting to these outlandish claims, that have ZERO credibility, evidence and lack any scientific basis.

SO, the question once more:

Is ATS Supporting Ignorance Concerning Chemtrails?

Still NO!! What is ATS doing? They are HOSTING these threads, allowing them to continue, and there are loads of them.... and they are NOT being tossed into the bin of 404 obscurity....ARE THEY!!!???

So, if anything....by continuing, and putting them in proper context (that they deserve) as they are non-evidential, speculative, urban legends and someday, once there is no longer any lingering doubt, will likely be categorized where they belong, as HOAXES.

Right now, the "evidence" for HOAX is far more substantial. The criteria to qualify is up to other people (above my pay grade) to decide. IF this were a democracy, then my vote is obvious.

By educating people on the utter stupidity of this baloney, ATS is dispelling the ignorance that surrounds it, and permeates society as a whole....because the average "Joe/Juan/Henri/Franz, (etc...) on the street" is horribly under-schooled in these sorts of detailed sciences and other technical disciplines.

If you don''t get a sample olf these alleged chemicals, you remain ignorant. It is very easy to do. Once you have your sample analyzed, then you can be knowlegable. Until that time, we all remain ignorant.

Personally OP, I think your point is valid. There are topics on ATS that have no more proof of existence than chemtrails do. Yet they have their own category. I can’t see why chemtrails couldn’t have it’s own category as well. The majority of this site is “highly speculative”.

I hear a lot about facts. The facts are what tptb say the facts are. Hows that for highly speculative?
Many of you think it’s stupid to believe in chemtrails. Well I think it’s stupid to believe all the garbage the mainstream of science feeds you as fact. And I think all of you who consistently quote the mainstream of science are religious zealots.

You really think we live longer and healthier now? How do you know that? You really think there are almost 7 billion people on this planet? Have you ever counted them yourself? No!

You’re all blasting the OP for no good reason. His inquiry is reasonable. If you actually read it, that is. And whoever said “Me thinks thou dost protest too much” had a valid point.

S&F OP.

I don't believe in the Chemtrail idea in the least, I'm not saying cloud seeding hasn't happened and doesn't happen to this day ( I believe China has admitted to that one ) but that's entirely different all together.. The fact is there's no good evidence to support all of the enormous claims people make in regards to CONtrails ..

The rate at which people see a contrail in the sky and think OMG CHEMTRAIL has grown to absurd levels mostly because people either don't understand the science behind contrails ( this is shown constantly in posts on ATS ) or they have just become so convinced in the idea that everything they see is a chemtrail.

What it boils down to is you really need to present some solid evidence to support those claims, pointing to a document from the 70s for example where someone conducted a test doesn't count as evidence that the trails you see in the skies today are chemical trails..

We don't have to prove contrails because they are a well known, well understood thing.. it's a basic knowledge that you should be taught in grade school... and indeed you are, or at lease the ideas behind it.