Abortion, Genocide, what’s THE difference?!?!?!?!?.... do you condone murder???

Originally posted by MindSpin
One question...are humans biological life???

If so, why would human life have any different starting point than biological life?

As i said before, i have made this very clear, i have given you my arguments and it seems you either forget them or willfully ignore them. This is the behavior of a troll, so i won't continue to repeat myself, i've done enough of it already.

reply to post by igor_ats


igor_ats, Thank You for your response. However, I did not ever claim that a "man's rights" trumps a woman's "bodily integrity". I simply said that if a woman can abort a baby against a man's will, then the man should not be forced to pay for a child that he has no say in deciding to keep or to abort. "Equality" is the point of view that I am looking at this question from (for now).
Also, would you mind clarifying what you mean by "the woman can decide not to chase the father" if she decides to keep the baby? I am not sure if you were being sarcastic in that post. Again, to clarify, I am not saying that a man should be allowed to force the woman to abort the baby, nor I am saying that the man should be allowed to force the woman to keep the baby.
I am simply saying that if a woman has the unilateral, legal choice to keep the baby, then she should be prepared to support the baby, with or without the father. Again, this is assuming that the father has no say in what happens to the baby (in terms of wanting to keep it, rather than wanting to abort it) (Of course, seeing how the legal structure is now, a man has a financial incentive to want a woman to abort a baby, but that is not a point that I am addressing right now). I believe another poster brought up something akin to "My body, my choice, OUR responsibility". This simply does not make sense from an "equal rights" point of view, nor is it logical. Thanks again.

You know, this reminds me of the video and thread we had a while back about the video where school children who questioned Anthropogenic Global Warming where exploded into pieces when the naive teacher implied that would be their end, and then when those school children were asked about the ad they said "it is ok to blow up children to save the environment!!" with grins in their faces... That's the sort of brainwashed, and inhumane indoctrination that has been going on for decades, and it is being called "being progressive and a good steward to Earth"...

Reducing the value of a human life is exactly what the global elites have wanted people to believe in and millions have fallen for it. This is what abortion has done as well... It has made millions believe that an unborn child doesn't matter...

reply to post by ElectricUniverse

then again....

the baby does not own the mother's body........
equal right in this matter is not gonna work.
either the mom's rights must trump the rights of the baby, or the baby's rights must trump the rights of the mom.....

either way you go, you are devaluling the life of one of them!!!

so, if you grant the baby full constitutional rights as a fetus, (kind of like what the ERA was aiming to do), do you plan on stripping those rights when the female becomes of child bearing age, or when she becomes pregnant???

Originally posted by MindSpin
reply to post by worlds_away

 

“who am I to judge someone who kills their baby”. I really try hard to not judge other people’s actions when I cannot understand them.

I would understand if you didn't want to judge someone for gossiping. Maybe for making bad financial decisions. Maybe you don't want to judge someone for cheating on their taxes.


But I gave you a scenario of a women killing her one week old baby...

If you can't make a judgement on that...that is just very disturbing.

And I gave you the scenario of her leaving it at a hospital. I never said ANYWHERE that I am against adoption.

I don't give a damn if you understand how I judge people. I don't give a damn if you find me disgusting. I thought we we're discussing abortion? You've now moved the goal posts once again...

Originally posted by worlds_away
“who am I to judge someone who kills their baby”. I really try hard to not judge other people’s actions when I cannot understand them.

Would you be willing to judge a man who killed a baby (?) or is it just when women do it that you try hard not to judge?

reply to post by Gorman91

The two are practically the same. A child will cry when their parents fight, being unaware that they are distinct from the situation and of a separate mannerism.

A child will cry when the parents fight - therefore it is sentient (has ability to feel or suffer).

they are distinct from the situation and of a separate mannerism.

I dont understand what you mean by this sentence. Care to clarify?

Sentience in and of itself, again, is not uniquely human until long after birth, with young children's level of it being indistinguishable to apes and other animals.

Yes, thats why we should protect all higher animals IMHO. Its the fault of out barbaric society that they are being killed even when we dont need to do it for survival anymore.

reply to post by UncleVinny

A fetus (in my mind, anyway) becomes a person when a soul enters the body, which us generally just a few days before birth.

I don't think that argument will work, You have no idea when the soul enters the body.

How did you come to the conclusion it is a few days before the birth?

Abortion, Genocide, what's the similarity? ... do you condone ignorance? 200,000 unborn fetuses pales in comparison to the 20 million people who died from starvation every year. Now that you know the "staggering" number of deaths caused by starvation you can now devote 100 times the effort into stopping that, right?

Addon: Are people really bringing "souls" into this argument? The human body functions exactly as it does with out the need for a soul. Our conscience is a result of the connections between the cells in our brain, not some mythical unprovable entity.

reply to post by Dystopiaphiliac

The human body functions exactly as it does with out the need for a soul. Our conscience is a result of the connections between the cells in our brain, not some mythical unprovable entity.

He was using the soul argument to justify abortion, BTW

reply to post by kevinunknown

to me that is just about the same as killing of 22% of 8 year olds in primary education

You do realize that there's a limit on how long you can wait before having an abortion, right? It's not a grown human when they abort, and it's regulated by law. You trying to pretend it's the same as killing a baby or grown human is beyond laughable and shows you haven't really read up on the law.

As a doctor asked me what speed of film I was using, out of the corner of my eye I saw the uterus shake, but no one's hands were near it. It was shaking from within. Suddenly, an entire arm thrust out of the opening, then pulled back until just a little hand was showing. The doctor reached over and lifted the hand, which reacted and squeezed the doctor's finger. As if testing for strength, the doctor shook the tiny fist. Samuel held firm. I took the picture! Wow! It happened so fast that the nurse standing next to me asked, "What happened?" "The child reached out," I said. "Oh. They do that all the time," she responded.

They do it all the time,

They?

Video
www.michaelclancy.com...

reply to post by kevinunknown


I posted a nice long reply to this, accidentally hit the wrong button and lost it all... massively frustrating. Mods, if there is some way to save drafts in the future, I'm sure it would be very appreciated. Until then, I will have to get into the habit of copying and pasting...
Instead of trying to repeat all of that I will keep it simple and link to one of my former posts on a similar topic www.abovetopsecret.com...,
as well as two comedians, who really say it well and humorously.
Bill Hicks www.youtube.com...
George Carlin www.youtube.com...

Understand that nothing is black and white. Protecting life does not mean disregarding all else and fighting to save everything that has the potential to live. LOOK AT THE WHOLE PICTURE BEFORE YOU GO MAKING SUCH LUDICROUS CLAIMS AS YOU DID IN THE TITLE OF THIS POST.
Also, consult a science book and dictionary and educate yourself on the stages of embryonic and fetal development and the meaning of the word genocide.
I wish you luck and hope you break free from your narrow mind frame.

Originally posted by ImaginaryReality1984

Originally posted by MindSpin
One question...are humans biological life???

If so, why would human life have any different starting point than biological life?

As i said before, i have made this very clear, i have given you my arguments and it seems you either forget them or willfully ignore them. This is the behavior of a troll, so i won't continue to repeat myself, i've done enough of it already.

It was a very simple question...a one line question. One you have not answered, which is why I asked you again. I know you haven't answered it because I re-read all your replies in this thread before I asked it.

If you don't want to answer this one very simple question, and instead choose to call me troll...then I am only left to assume that you have no satisfactory answer.

I am dissapointed, people keep telling me that all my questions have been answered...this is a very simple one...and still you choose to dodge it.

Another interesting little tid bit I have read in the past that I think is worth mentioning,
Adolf Hitler's mother seriously considered getting an abortion but her doctor talked her out of it.

Doc sure saved a lot of lives didn't he..

Originally posted by UncleVinny
A fetus (in my mind, anyway) becomes a person when a soul enters the body, which us generally just a few days before birth.

So a baby that is born a month early has no soul?

reply to post by worlds_away

And I gave you the scenario of her leaving it at a hospital. I never said ANYWHERE that I am against adoption.

I don't give a damn if you understand how I judge people. I don't give a damn if you find me disgusting. I thought we we're discussing abortion? You've now moved the goal posts once again...

Ok...you aren't against adoption...I never said you were.


Still doesn't change the fact that you don't think killing a one week old baby is something that should be "judged". If you are not willing to condemn someone who kills a one week old baby...that says a lot about you.

We are talking about abortion, so killing babies is relevant...this scenario was hopefully to show how ridiculous common "reasons" for an abortion are...by giving you the example that these reasons could still very well exist even after the baby is born. Instead of admitting the reasons are poor reasons to have an abortion...you decided to go with not judging someone who kills a one week old baby.

Like I said...it just says a lot about you and gives us all insight to your thoughts and morals.

Originally posted by 22ndsecond
Another interesting little tid bit I have read in the past that I think is worth mentioning,
Adolf Hitler's mother seriously considered getting an abortion but her doctor talked her out of it.

Doc sure saved a lot of lives didn't he..

Well...I guess we should just abort all babies....you never know when one of them may be the next Hitler


Do you honestly think this is a good argument?

Genocide: Done to human beings
Abortion: Done to unborn fetuses living inside a human being's body.

reply to post by MindSpin


HAH! Before you go jumping to conclusions please read my previous post. I did say in the beginning of that post "also" as in, I already posted before. No that was no my argument, I made my argument already I was adding an interesting little fact. Neither pro argument or against, but simply an interesting example as to how forcing someone to have a child against their will COULD go bad.