Abortion, Genocide, what’s THE difference?!?!?!?!?.... do you condone murder???

Originally posted by prexparte
I do not any any manner agree with abortion. However I do nto stand inbetween that woman who believes in abortion. In the christian bible Jesus clearly tells us not to judge each other to leave the judgements for God. ZIf I tell a woman she cannot have a abortion and or highly condem her for havign an abortion then I am going against what the bible/jesus tells us is truth adn judging her.

Then you should be against all laws that judge/punish.

Originally posted by Sinnthia

Originally posted by Maslo
Who is talking about putting a stop to abortion?

The pro-lifers. Did you miss that?

No, they are talking about banning abortion. Putting a stop to abortion would not be accomplished by ban, altough it would probably decrease.

If it is murder, and they believe it is, it has to be banned.

Why? You just agreed with me that would not stop it.

So you want murder to be legalized? Because last time I watched the news, there were plenty of murders happening, even tough it is banned. If not, you are not making any sense.

Originally posted by ototheb85
If they did ban it then what? They most likely will self abort god knows how tho! Or they will keep the pregnancy secret and kill it when it’s born. You hear stories about babies found in bins all the time.

Telegraph news report

dailymail news report

Ban abortions and you will see more stories like this, would you rather be aborted before you can feel anything?
Or would you rather be born and dumped like garbage and most likely freeze to death!??

In the U.S. a woman can drop her baby off at a hospital or fire station with no questions asked and no further obligation... there is no reason for a woman to leave her baby in a garbage bin to die.

reply to post by SevenBeans




I see you conveniently left out the bit from the statistics "SUCH STATISTICAL APPROACHES

ARE VERY UNCERTAIN. The reasons are SELF REPORTED and thus NOT VERIFIABLE.

And yes i would rather beiieve women i know who have had the procedure. It is well known that

people often lie in official polls as it is nobody elses business. For example in the British census

the religion claimed by many is "Jedi" and that is two fingers up to nosey officialdom.

Originally posted by eletheia
I see you conveniently left out the bit from the statistics "SUCH STATISTICAL APPROACHES

ARE VERY UNCERTAIN. The reasons are SELF REPORTED and thus NOT VERIFIABLE.

Obviously they're self-reported how else would they find out what a woman is thinking?

You chose to ignore a study of thousands in favor of a few women you know who've had abortions... fine with me.

The problem is not abortion here. The problem ist how to deal with the problem.

Do not mix it up otherwise you'll have a lot to do, specifically reading comments.

The mesure. To forbid. Very cheap. Very ineffectiv. Do never anything by force. Could be God's saying.

To whom the mesure. To a cilivilian with all rights of her body.

Can you offend this right. Is it not one in the rank nearby holy.

Think about rape. And how less it uses to make a file here.

The wisdom of creation tells you to help anybody who has come in difficult waters. That's all you are allowed to do.

To play god and to frankly advise what other people should do, and that is the abortional problem here, could it be that such a behavior is the intimate friend of the most unwanted ats member.

Will you peg the war flag into the uterus.

To come out just now with that problem, who countless lives are in serious troubles and deserved your attention, that's no that helpful to make the world, sorry ...

Originally posted by romanmel
Your defination of useful life would not include the severely mentally retarded and as such I would assume you would have no problem killing those as well. Hitler refered to these as "useless eaters". This is the justification Hitler used to exterminate millions of humans that were not evolved enough to constitute useful life, including many Germans. Once one has used this means test for the least of these it is a short trip to the ovens for all the rest of us.

edit on 24-2-2011 by romanmel because: (no reason given)

I have never defined useful life and saying i have is an utter lie. I have merely defined where i consider life begins, this was a pathetic attempt to attack me but nice try. It's also unfair to apply my argument to people who already exist (the mentally handicapped) when it is designed to deal with a lose clump of cells that doesn't think, feel or experience anything.

reply to post by SevenBeans





Well it appears to me that they dont exactly have full confidence in the figures they put

forward when they justify with "thus NOT Verifiable

Originally posted by kevinunknown


The 3 main arguments against as I see it are the “rape scenario”, eugenics and that it is the woman’s right. All three I covered in the first few pages of this thread, the first two do not justify the murder of an innocent child, the third is unfair as the human rights of the mother are taking precedence over the human rights of the child. These views may disgust you, what should disgust you more is the killing of kids because they are a incontinence for their promiscuous amoral parents.

ummm,,,ya......
so all those who are having abortions are promiscous amoral parents???

but let's go to the "taking precedence over the human rights of the child" first.....
since you seem to be suggesting that the child's human rights should be taking precedence over that of the mother, and well quite frankly, any and all the other children who may already be dependent on her for their daily needs! which leads me back to the "amoral parents" which is a phrase I suspect you use just to justify why the innocent child's rights should supercede that of the mother's!!!
I got news for you joe.....there's women who are finding themselves with a hard choice.....give up a child that they really would love to have in their lives, of well.....risk death, be bedridden, and give up on those kids they already have and leave them to fend for themselves, or send them into a proverty that isn't known even to most of the "poor" in this country!! many MARRIED women have abortions every year....is it amoral for them to have sex with their partner? is that promiscous to you???
don't come back with a bunch of statistics that show how few women there are that fit my profile...like I said it doesn't matter if it's one in a five, or one in a million...all there needs to be is one...and it's an injustice! you can't force a women to lay down her right to life, or to decent health.....and let a few cells within her body take precedence over that and call it just!!

find a way to regulate it where there is no chance in that injustice being done! as I see it, most anti-abortionist are more likely to say that since there is a chance the mother will be fine......
that's like saying that they guy with the knife or the baseball bat has a chance of missing you when he swings to hit, and you will be fine in the end! even if it's a gun he is holding...there's a chance that he will miss ya!

Originally posted by kevinunknown
I don’t need to bible to tell me murder is wrong, so I don’t need it to tell me abortion is wrong.

That is good, because the bible tells you that you should murder certain people. I am glad that you can see past the nonsense in the bible and make decisions for yourself.

Originally posted by eletheia
Well it appears to me that they dont exactly have full confidence in the figures they put

forward when they justify with "thus NOT Verifiable

It's a standard disclaimer on all studies that rely on self-reporting... all it's saying is that the results are based on what women having an abortion say is their reason (it's not something that can be verified emperically in a lab etc. etc. because it's based on someone's feelings). The same disclaimer applies to what the women you know, claim was their reason for aborting.

reply to post by dawnstar


Most abortions in the UK are in the mostly unmarried 20-24 years age group. Abortion is not a natural right (as you liberals all love to rant about them), the right to life is a natural right as such it should take precedence over the mothers right to have an abortion. No man should have the right to kill another.

reply to post by SevenBeans






Yes like i said FINAINCE never came into the reasons why the women i know went through

the procedure. And dont you know this Country has a more than generous benifits system??

they can even be entitled to free housing.................but thats another story......another

thread !!

Originally posted by eletheia
Yes like i said FINAINCE never came into the reasons why the women i know went through

the procedure.

So? Many women say that it was the major reason.

You mocked the idea as outlandish and I provided the evidence.

Originally posted by MindSpin

Originally posted by worlds_away
reply to post by MindSpin

 

I kinda wish your mother used a condom just a little more frequently...

Oh, I'm sorry...you don't like me reminding everyone that abortion is killing babies.

It'd be better if we just didn't talk about it huh? Just ignore it and pretend that thousands of babies are killed everyday (last I looked it was about 3,500 a day) because a women is too selfish to take responsibility for her own actions???


Sorry...I don't excuse murdering babies becaus a women is selfish.

That's where you are wrong....A fetus is not a baby ! By definition a baby is a birthed fetus. Once it crosses the vagina and is in the breathing world, it is considered a baby, anytime BEFORE that it is still a fetus and the laws differ from there.

Originally posted by The Sword
reply to post by romanmel

 

Compassion is something that most right-wing, pro-lifers lack.

Bitch and moan about this and that but they do nothing to help the situation. Classic.

Hundreds of Crisis Pregnancy Centers nationwide and adoption assistance dosen't count? Food and clothing centers for the poor and housing assistance in almost every community operated by Christian groups. What do you get from the pro-abortion crowd at the abortuary or Planned Parenthood? Ans: Death for Cash.

pro choice thats how i see it. it should be up to the individual on how it is handled and no other way in my opinion.

Originally posted by kevinunknown
reply to post by dawnstar

 

Most abortions in the UK are in the mostly unmarried 20-24 years age group. Abortion is not a natural right (as you liberals all love to rant about them), the right to life is a natural right as such it should take precedence over the mothers right to have an abortion. No man should have the right to kill another.

No. the mother's rights supersedes, she is the living, breathing, tax paying entity here, she has full right to choose and is protected under her constitutional rights. As unfortunate as you may think it is for these mothers to chose abortions over adoptions or raising the child it is still her choice.

An abortion can be the saddest day in a woman's life. What if a singe mother, who wants her baby and loves it, has to terminate the prepnancy or risk losing all her children because she can't take care of anything of them? Can you possiby imagine her agony? Sure, a few women get multipe abortions, but for most it is one of the most painful decisions she will ever make. Would YOU take them in and support them if mom lost her job or coudn't find one after the baby was born and she has three other children to take care of? Woud you hire legal counsel for her because she had to steal food to feed a family she can't support due to the fact threre is not enough state assistance or she ony makes min. wage or can'e afford a babysitter to work? Maybe you would, but most would not. So, want to judge someone? Look in the mirror.

Most states are financialy strapped and guess which programs get cut first? The ones that "help" indigents. There very few people oppose it because it does not affect them directly, but the numbers are growing by the day. Did you know that the highest number of homeless peope are chidren? The poor among us have little voice in government. It is all about the elite few protecting and expanding their wealth, and control of the popluace. Until each of us realizes that,we are responsibe for each other, abortion must be legal. Otherwise, it will return to the back alleys where it was performed prior to its legalization. It is a woman's personal decision and always has been. Let her keep her right to choose legal, however emotionally painful it might be, because it is her choice, and she deserves to have it done in a safe environment.

reply to post by kevinunknown

what about self defense...is that a natural right, what about a natural instinct????
like I said, don't care if it's one in a million......
you can't force someone to lay down their life for somene else....
that kind of sacrifice can only be chosen by the one who is sacrificing...

but then, a big part of many of the problems that society faces is that they don't see having a kid, or raising it a sacrifice of any kind....
they think they have the right to take nine months out of a women's life, take their life if need be, then they have the right to have the care and nuturing of that women for 18 or so years...
I think that life is a gift from a women to the future child...it is hers to give....it's not yours to be forced upon her! your view, if taken far enough, leads to enslavement, and we have just about all of human history to prove that fact....
my view leads to women being viewed in a more posititive way, they are the givers of life, and should be respected as such. and, to be honest.....maybe if that respect was around more, there would be less abortions and more women willing to give life to begin with!!!

got, ever our healthcare system is screwed in such a way to screw the new mom when she has the kid. it's mostly women who end up leaving the workforce when a new baby enters the world....
and then, well, once she leaves the workforce, she will more than likely end up losing her healthcare, since it's so dependant on employment in this country! so, well, there's a program that will more than likely assure that the baby has healthcare, and dad will still have his through his employers...but mom??? na, she's insignificant!! after all she's fullfilled her job right, she brought the baby into the world...if she dies...what does it matter now??

In plain simple words, society would do a better job of cutting down on the abortions if they centered on the reasons why today's women don't want to have the kids, and make some changes in some areas, like the healthcare issue, than they would just banning the proceedure and trying to force the women to have the babies. and well, got to ask this question...if, in response to all this anti-abortion crap, a large number of women just decided to tell their partners that hey, under the current circumstances, I think it's just too risky to have sex with ya....hope ya understand...
ya think that maybe, just maybe.....the "force her to have the kid" would be carried even further?? to forcing her to conceive the kid???

for the one who is bringing up the bible verses....
the bible also has a little bit in there that says something like
"woa to him that causeth the trespasses".. Christ is talking about marriage and adultery, and the fact that there isn't really any divorce. but I believe it extends out to many other trespasses in life. if such things as the inequality in our social service networks is causing people to trespass, and I believe that they do, well, Christ has made it quite clear that the bulk of the responsibility will go to those who causes the trespass to begin with!