Shun any teaching or doctrine about "antichrist"

Be done with these modern myths of rennaissance prophecies. You have elevated the translations of Nostradamus, some plague doctor from France, to that of the bible.

You have made a great error in this departure. The christian apocalypse does not provide for the appearance of an antichrist world leader. It provides for a Godlike world leader.

Some would call this figure Christ's second coming. Some would call him other names.

The synthesis and amalgamation of the truth of all religions is this:
Mankind are vessels who are chosen every so often to bear the souls of Great ones. They appear repeatedly, and regularly, because of the orderly fashion that proceeds from Heaven.

Stop polluting the minds of my people with false teachings about the modern times. Not one of you is liberated from this system in a fashion suitable to teach truth. Doctrines and teachings concerning the antichrist are not factual, they are not based upon anyhting but a medieval soothsayer, and a bad understanding of the bible.

The reasons against teaching about the end times is that you are crippling the appearance of any true leaders, because you pummel the children who appear to lead, and you test them without mercy because of the envy that resides in you, and because of this you have slaughtered and oppressed your naturally evolved ones, who bear the weight of your endeavors.

I would have every community with a wise man, a learned man, a man who is freed from the desires and cares of this material culture, who has retired from the lust of acquisition, and has discovered the eloquent and effective expression of his nation's inheritance.

This is necessary, not for the preservation of any religion, or any sacred book, but for the general integrity of a civilized people, and their ability to maintain and appreciate the creations of a high culture, and an enlightened progression among its principal persons.

Without the ability to be led, the people quickly are snared by the mancatchers and the corrputors, who dwell in large numbers as prey-seeking men, who have long since left behind their golden crowns of virtue.

They are the false prophets, who love the spread of noteriety and controversy. Instead of a humble presense, they love to be seen and recognized, wearing ostentation and pride.

Arky

Has anyone ever told you before that you get way WAY too caught up in your own words?
If not, then: You get way way too caught up in your own words.

Interesting post though.

You may call it getting �WAY too caught up in your own words�, I call it intellectual writing. Personally I appreciate the obvious effort you have put into your writing as I�m sure many others do. It�s a pleasure to come across a thread that wasn�t written in less than 20 seconds, keep up the good work and I look forward to reading more of your writing and thoughts.

Do you like to think of yourself as a prophet Arkaleus?

You sound like somone who doesn't want others to know the truth.

To answer the various questions:

"I am way too caught up in my own words"

I think you were way too caught up in my words too. Is your only comment after reading my post concerning the sounds my words make? Sheesh. Did you understand any of the content?

"Do you think of yourself as a prophet?"

I prefer to do away with such loaded titles and descriptions. I prefer truth seeker or truth speaker. Teacher is acceptable, philosopher also.

Gentleman is also good, along with brother. Other titles I do not care for.
If you want to compliment me, thank you.

To be honest, I don't really care about your religion or what book you read.
I am into really great Kings and Gods, and how to get into paradise with my friends.

As far as someone here not wanted anyone to know the truth, I don't think anyone was trying to supress anything. I am totally for openness and revelation of all hidden knowledge. I am for the knowedge of everything, and the rule over evil.

My will is the will of perfect man, it is joy I am after, and freedom, and a lot of happiness. I want only human beings of this kind to live on earth. I don't think the rest have much of a reason to stay around.

My words are to scold those who mislead mankind. Evil people love spreading this rumor because it causes suspicious and mistrust of all men who preach, teach, or are bold enough to speak the truth.

This rumor also makes men of true spirit suspect, because whenever a truly spiritual person appears before you, he will appear different from you, and you will be tempted to call him these things like antichrist or false prophet. I would correct you before you insult your brothers.

It is also a silly superstition, just a silly as the ancient ones held by our ancestors. Boogeymen and dragons, just take the fruits off the tree man, no dragon is there.

You need men who have gone through the difficult initiation of separation from this world and its society. You need people who do not represent the system of the world, or who echo any of its phrases and thoughts. Those men you might call prophets, but I call them simply, true men.

Ark


[Edited on 22-7-2004 by Arkaleus]

Arkaleus,

What about teachings about Korihor? I want to keep those, they are important.

I am not too familiar with this person. I think I heard of it before, isn't he a character from the Book of Mormon? Like a Gadianton Robber or something? Please refresh my memory, as I have been out of the "mormon" loop for quite some time, and "Korihor" is something not found anywhere else except in Mormon circles.

Ark

Yes, Korihor is from the book of Mormon. He was an antichrist (in the sense that he was against Christ, not that he was THE antichrist). He asked God for a sign, and He made him unable to speak.

I remember that story. I always liked that one. He was struck dumb as a barbell as the righteous priests stood by in judgment. Ha! If only such power would manifest today.

My most favorite story in the BofM is the story of Joseph Smith himself - what an American hero! Few men have equalled him in America, and even fewer have accomplished what He did in the name of God.

There is a book that I wish all mormons would read: Fingerprints of the Gods by Graham Hancock. He makes the connection between Ancient America and Egypt, and provides some really solid archeological evidence to do so. Check out his work - it's cool:

www.grahamhancock.com

He doesn't make the Mormon connection, but it is an obvious and logical connection for us to make ourselves.

I would recommend any of his books, they are scholarly and rational, and really fun to read if you have a head for history and mystery.

Arky

I like the story of King Benjamin myself...

...what about the story of the Mormon Migration around 1847, now that's a great story...(though not in the BoM)

Yeah, The story of King Benjamin is really good too. I love stories of good and wise kings.

It's much better to enjoy the stories of the Book of Mormon like you were reading any other historical text, like the Illiad or the Ramayana. It's better than fiction and a lot more instructive.

Smith was one smart kid, he really did have a gift. I wonder if that gift can be brought back to our people, because we need it now more than ever.

Ark

The term "antiChist" means in opposition to , or opposing Christ. Christians get their belief of a man whom they label as "The AntiChrist" from several verses in the Bible.

The first reference is found in 2 Thessalonians 2
1Concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our being gathered to him, we ask you, brothers, 2not to become easily unsettled or alarmed by some prophecy, report or letter supposed to have come from us, saying that the day of the Lord has already come. 3Don't let anyone deceive you in any way, for that day will not come until the rebellion occurs and the man of sin is revealed, the man doomed to destruction. 4He will oppose and will exalt himself over everything that is called God or is worshiped, so that he sets himself up in God's temple, proclaiming himself to be God.

Paul was writing to the Thesalonians to comfort them and explain that Christ had not yet come back to Earth. This text shows that Christ would not come until another came first. This man will proclaim himself to be greater than all others, even God. We know that the man mentioned is not Christ, but another since Christ is equal with God, and is not doomed to destruction.

The prophet Daniel also wrote of this person, and this can be found in Daniel 11
36 "The king will do as he pleases. He will exalt and magnify himself above every god and will say unheard-of things against the God of gods. He will be successful until the time of wrath is completed, for what has been determined must take place.
45 He will pitch his royal tents between the seas at [6] the beautiful holy mountain. Yet he will come to his end, and no one will help him.

Again we see that we have a person, or individual who tries to set himself up above all other gods, and yet he will be destroyed. In 2 Thessalonians 2 we also see that this lawless man is destroyed by Jesus when Jesus returns to the Earth.
8And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord Jesus will overthrow with the breath of his mouth and destroy by the splendor of his coming.

Finally I give you this last scirpture which plainly says the words antichrist. It is found in 1 John 2:18 & 22. John does not rebuke the teaching that some have declared that "the antichrist" was coming. Instead he affirms this teaching by giving us a sign or litmus test for determing the antichrist when he shows up. He will deny that Jesus is the Christ.

18Dear children, this is the last hour; and as you have heard that the antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have come.
22Who is the liar? It is the man who denies that Jesus is the Christ. Such a man is the antichrist--he denies the Father and the Son.

Jesus will return, but as we have just read from scriptures, a king will arise and set himself up and proclaim that he is greater than all. He will be destroyed upon the return of Christ. This is a plain and simple teaching from the Bible. There are several stand-alone scriptures that tell of the coming antichrist. You do not need to be a scholar to read and understand them. How can the teaching of the antichrist be a "modern myth of rennaissance prophecies" when the newest scripture that I've refrenced was written around 60 AD? The verses from Daniel were written around 530 B.C. which places it thousands of years before Nostradamus

Are we to challenge the scriptures Arkaleus? What evidence do we have to prove otherwise? A whim, or gut feeling? Trust the Word of God over your dreams and feelings.

Dbrant:

My argument is specifically against the expectation of some global world-influencing antichrist figure like expressed in the movies, and publicly decried by various fundamentalist Christians.

Jesus never spoke about this character. Other men did. Who is the greater authority?

The book of Daniel is a Dream Vision. Ezeziel saw spinning wheels with faces on them. Are we to expect those coming out of the clouds too? You can interpret the words of the apostles your way if you want, but I have seen the fruit of this and I don't like the taste of it.

It's okay to use reason and common sense when reading the Bible. Jesus didn't give us funny prophecies, or rediculous visions to decode. he didn't have to. It's been 2000 years, and there are billions of people on the earth. There's been all sorts of nasty wicked men, all sorts of demonic and satanic leaders, wars, and religions unleashed upon us. I don't think that's going to change for a while, or at least until the age winds to a close.

It's a chicken little mentality that these "doctrines" encourage. Every famous leader becomes a suspect "antichrist" which is obviously silly. It is popular among the least educated of our people, and promoted by folks who have no real understanding of what they are reading.

It boils down to whether to imagine the bible to be an infalliable document. You are using a modern translation of the bible in your quotes, which are common among American Protestant types.

You accuse me of challenging scripture. There are many scriptures, from different prophets, from different eras and traditions. There's not just the bible, and there was a lot written in other countries about the same kind of matters. The "Antichrist" is an abberation not repeated in any other text, tradition, or religion. Therefore I safely disregaurd it, and I challange any one of you fundamentalist types to prove or predict this "person". You can't. You just end up accusing any famous person who appears on the radar.

While I believe in the divinity of Jesus, and in the holy mission of the Christ, I think that the words of other people, especially commentators on the Bible are chasing after boogeymen.

That's why I say to shun these doctrines and interpretations! They are not profitable for us to pursue, they do not assist us in our faith or perfection, and they have no bearing at all on the state of Christianity or any other religion. They just end up confusing people, spreading fear and suspicion, and keeping people ignorant. That is more the work of our enemy the devil, than anything Jesus did.

We should focus on making our ranks strong, and detaching ourselves from the world as much as we can. Then it won't matter what happens in it, our salvation is secure.

So go chase after the next "antichrist" you have found, he's just the latest in a long line of those whom your mentors have accused. You'll just find a man there, more or less evil like the rest of public figures nowadays.

Yes, we are going to challenge the scriptures, and we are going to take them apart by the tools of reason and truth, and if they don't hold up, then we will tread on them. Sound like trouble? Watch out for our feet.

Most of men's religious confusion and hatred comes from reading the words of these men and books, and then giving them the force of law. Stop that! That's not what jesus did. Do what He did.

Have you read any other books besides the bible? I always ask this when people throw bible quotes at me. Does your entire philosophical and religious awareness come from a plain english translation of the bible? Are there any snake handlers in your family? (Just kidding )

Jesus is the Christ, silly. We are his little brothers, and there is nothinng hidden from us, we can throw around anything we want, and examine every mystery without fear. We can challenge your most sacred doctrines and precepts, and that's our inheritance. Cheers!

Arky

You need to be careful when absorbing what people say about the anti-christ, because there are many different opinions. But I dont think you should shun it. God tells us that there is a special blessing for those who read the Book of Revelation. We should be studying the entire Bible and end times things because it's relevant and we need to know where we are in history.

Nope no snake handlers in my family.

While I usually reference the NIV version of the Bible(as in the above case), I use other translations as well If I'm digging around for answers. See BibleGateway.com for an easy way to compare translations side-by-side.

Attacking two points at once.....Jesus did refer to the antichrist. In Matthew 24:15 (and Mark 13:14)he says "So when you see standing in the holy place 'the abomination that causes desolation,'spoken of through the prophet Daniel--let the reader understand-- "

So at the same time Jesus is affirming that what the prophet Daniel said is true, and that the antichrist would come. I am on your side when it comes to antichrist labeling. Christians shouldn't worry about who he is, as it will be apparent to the true Christians when the time comes. Still one cannot help but be curious at times.

One thing to be careful of is being caught into the trap that most of the world will fall into. The antichrist will be very pleasing, and he will be loved. He will not be a monster as depicted by some. He will perform miracles. People will be amazed, and worship him.

2 Thess 2:9-12
9The coming of the lawless one will be in accordance with the work of Satan displayed in all kinds of counterfeit miracles, signs and wonders, 10and in every sort of evil that deceives those who are perishing. They perish because they refused to love the truth and so be saved. 11For this reason God sends them a powerful delusion so that they will believe the lie 12and so that all will be condemned who have not believed the truth but have delighted in wickedness.
Matthew 24:23-27
23At that time if anyone says to you, 'Look, here is the Christ!' or, 'There he is!' do not believe it. 24For false Christs and false prophets will appear and perform great signs and miracles to deceive even the elect--if that were possible. 25See, I have told you ahead of time.
26"So if anyone tells you, 'There he is, out in the desert,' do not go out; or, 'Here he is, in the inner rooms,' do not believe it. 27For as lightning that comes from the east is visible even in the west, so will be the coming of the Son of Man.

Obviously whoever it is that comes will seek for people to worship him as if he were God. He will perform miracles, and wonders, and everyone will love him. Again we have warnings from Jesus not to believe it. So who is "The AntiChrist"? He will proclaim that he is god, and perform miracles and will most likely decieve much of the world into believing him. Again Christian don't have to figure out who his is, since he will make himself known to everyone. Simply wait for someone who claims to be god and can do these wonders and miracles.

EDIT:
Christians look for the AntiChrist the way that you look at the clock. When you see him appear, then you know the time is near. The joy in seeing him is the knowledge of the soon return of Christ.

[Edited on 28-7-2004 by dbates]

Originally posted by Arkaleus
Dbrant:

Jesus never spoke about this character. Other men did. Who is the greater authority?

Actually Jesus did speak of the anti-christ. John 5:43 I am come in my Father's name, and you receive me not: if another shall come in his own name, him ye will receive.

We can rely on the Bible we have today.

Funny, we both thought of the same thing, but used different scirptures. Yours (dbrant) is a very good one. The Jews will believe that the antichrist is their Messiah. This is due to all of the signs that I mentioned above.

Ok, I guess.

If you believe such a one will come, then that's fine. I personally don't believe it. You also have to remember that most of the world is not Christian. What would convince the other 4/5ths of the world to follow this "person"? Other miracle workers have come in the past.

Maybe, just maybe, there will be some character that tries to do this. I have speculated on what will happen once the world has been all connected and settled and homogenized. It's new territory for the world, we've never been like this before.

To become a leader is very difficult to do. To become a really great and popular leader is even harder, and cannot be acocmplished without some kind of real virtue. You just can't fool all of the people all of the time. And what about the billions of other people who don't recognize Jesus as the Christ? They won't care about some crackpot deceiver claiming to be God, they will just laugh at him like the THOUSANDS of other deceivers who have appeared in our era.

Really though, It's all just speculation. I just hate to see people get all worked up over a boogeyman. Maybe somebody like this really will appear, maybe it's all just ancient pipe dreams. But who knows? I could tell the diffference between a fraud and the real deal. I know my brothers, and I know who is not my brother.

Arkaleus

The Bible says that the anti-christ will do lying signs and wonders. When you look up the same words in a concordance, it's the same words that described the miracles of Jesus.

What are some miracles Jesus did. He feed thousands of people who were hungry with a couple fish and a few loaves of bread. Over 1/2 of the people on the earth go to bed hungry every night. Now the others have enough food. But lets say all of a sudden famines come that cause suffering to the once well fed also. Now a "man" comes along that can fill the bellies of those who never Knew hunger, plus fill the bellies of those who have never had enough. THEY WILL FOLLOW HIM, because he fed them.

Jesus also raised the dead. We have several diseases on earth that bring a "death sentence". Suppose this same" man" brings a cure for AIDS. Guess what, this could be viewed as raising the dead.

Jesus also walked on water. He's God that's the highest entity there is. Now we also know a man, Peter, walked on water, lower than God and angels. So anyone in between could also walk on water. So if a "man" endowed with abilities by satan comes along and walks on water, bam he's a "god " and will be followed and viewed as a savior.

That would fool me, thank God I won't be here.

[Edited on 28-7-2004 by dbrandt]